Offseason 2025 Thread

[MasterIchiro]

I don't see a team with 11 firsts + 12 seconds blowing up anything.

That equity is the result of a blowup, selling off Rozier, Hayward, PJ, Nick, CoMart, holding assets, refusing to include our own 1sts to move contracts or to make upgrades, and for taking on bad contracts with draft capital.

The blow up already happened.

There will be no blowup. We are much closer to Detroit and Toronto than we are Pelicans or Nets, or Wizards, or Jazz, or any team lacking a young franchise PG.

[yosemiteben]

I'm inclined to agree, but at the same time I understand viewing the willingness to move Mark as a clear sign that they are potentially willing to move what fans might consider to be core pieces for more assets if the price is right.

[LofJ]

If anyone here did this you are a god among men.

[MasterIchiro]

I look at the Spurs and I'm watching how they're building. They're relevant because they're very carefully, methodically building around a special, very unique piece. Every choice is critical because you don't want to miss an opportunity to build around a generational player.

Mavs have a long road ahead with Flagg, but we could monitor them as well.

The Spurs build stands out for their high priority placed on playmaking.

They drafted and developed Sochan as a point forward.

They gave on-ball reps as they developed Vassell.

They took Wemby.

Then signed Chris Paul.

Then drafted Stephon Castle.

Then traded for D. Fox.

Now that Chris Paul is leaving, they could draft Harper.

Harper - Fox - Castle

Last year was Paul - Fox - Castle.

Their roster is deep with playmakers.

Ours is barren.

I would feel great about a trio of LaMelo - Mann - Fears/Harper.

Playmaking is a currency.

I'd even feel great about Melo - Jrue - Mann - Fears.

It's a team sport and the Spurs have always exemplified good team basketball since Tony Parker and Manu.

Their players know how to move with or without the ball and how to create shots for themselves and others.

No standing around the 3 point line. It's too predictable.

[yosemiteben]

The Spurs haven't had even a league average offense since the 2019-2020 season. I'm not so sure about looking at them as a model for ideal offensive performance or philosophy.

[MasterIchiro]

The Spurs haven't had even a league average offense since the 2019-2020 season. I'm not so sure about looking at them as a model for ideal offensive performance or philosophy.

They're still building though. And they definitely have placed a high priority on playmaking since drafting Wemby, and brought in sound vet leadership long before competing for playoff position.

[yosemiteben]

The Spurs haven't had even a league average offense since the 2019-2020 season. I'm not so sure about looking at them as a model for ideal offensive performance or philosophy.

They're still building though. And they definitely have placed a high priority on playmaking since drafting Wemby, and brought in sound vet leadership long before competing for playoff position.

You're right that they're still building, but IMO their recent efforts to add playmaking were engineered to help address a playmaking deficit that they themselves created (kind of the opposite of your point that they have historically been about playmaking). They went without a true starting caliber playmaking PG for multiple seasons, and Sochan is just not a playmaker and in hindsight was very ill suited for the role they were trying to shoehorn him into.

[MasterIchiro]

The Spurs haven't had even a league average offense since the 2019-2020 season. I'm not so sure about looking at them as a model for ideal offensive performance or philosophy.

They're still building though. And they definitely have placed a high priority on playmaking since drafting Wemby, and brought in sound vet leadership long before competing for playoff position.

You're right that they're still building, but IMO their recent efforts to add playmaking were engineered to help address a playmaking deficit that they themselves created (kind of the opposite of your point that they have historically been about playmaking). They went without a true starting caliber playmaking PG for multiple seasons, and Sochan is just not a playmaker and in hindsight was very ill suited for the role they were trying to shoehorn him into.

Sochan is probably not a longterm core piece for them. I can see them cycling out some of these guys, but they're going to run with Harper, Fox, and Castle with Wemby. Hard for teams to match that level of playmaking. We are far far behind, and currently distracted by prospects who couldn't run offense in a PG situation.

[yosemiteben]

They're still building though. And they definitely have placed a high priority on playmaking since drafting Wemby, and brought in sound vet leadership long before competing for playoff position.

You're right that they're still building, but IMO their recent efforts to add playmaking were engineered to help address a playmaking deficit that they themselves created (kind of the opposite of your point that they have historically been about playmaking). They went without a true starting caliber playmaking PG for multiple seasons, and Sochan is just not a playmaker and in hindsight was very ill suited for the role they were trying to shoehorn him into.

Sochan is probably not a longterm core piece for them. I can see them cycling out some of these guys, but they're going to run with Harper, Fox, and Castle with Wemby. Hard for teams to match that level of playmaking. We are far far behind, and currently distracted by prospects who couldn't run offense in a PG situation.

On the plus side, they acquired pretty much all of the players you are talking about in a 12 month period (other than Wemby). Not like this was some long time scheduled master strategy.

And all they needed was to get the top pick with a generational player, then moving up to #4 the next draft, then moving up again to #2 the next draft.

Guess we'll just need to do that.

[MasterIchiro]

You're right that they're still building, but IMO their recent efforts to add playmaking were engineered to help address a playmaking deficit that they themselves created (kind of the opposite of your point that they have historically been about playmaking). They went without a true starting caliber playmaking PG for multiple seasons, and Sochan is just not a playmaker and in hindsight was very ill suited for the role they were trying to shoehorn him into.

Sochan is probably not a longterm core piece for them. I can see them cycling out some of these guys, but they're going to run with Harper, Fox, and Castle with Wemby. Hard for teams to match that level of playmaking. We are far far behind, and currently distracted by prospects who couldn't run offense in a PG situation.

On the plus side, they acquired pretty much all of the players you are talking about in a 12 month period. Not like this was some long time scheduled master strategy.

Correct. They have the right focus on playmaking at the right time (Wemby a bedrock force) and somehow manage to function in day-to-day activities with a giant horse shoe lodged up their ass through the last 3 lotteries.

So sure, with luck it can happen overnight. But they did start with surplus draft capital and turned 3 firsts into a primary playmaker in Fox.

They definitely will walk away with Harper.

[fatlever]

i still dont see a longterm fit with fox/harper. one has to go.

[MasterIchiro]

i still dont see a longterm fit with fox/harper. one has to go.

What's their rush?

Harper is going to make an impact day one but Fox could carry them in a playoff series.

They will stagger their build. Fox is just getting warmed up over there. And they will not forfeit a generational talent in Harper.

That dream ended when we fell to 4.

[MasterIchiro]

Think of it this way, with Wemby there, they know they will never finish poorly enough to get close to a talent like Dylan Harper.

Last chance.

[MasterIchiro]

I would say they're more likely to move Castle than either Fox or Harper.

And they'd want a massive return for Castle. They kept him out of the Fox deal. But with Harper added, maybe see what Castle yields.

I'd feel surprised if they were to listen on pick 4 for Castle.

But would you trade precious VJ Edgecombe for Castle, knowing one of them is never going to act as a defacto PG?

One is clearly not a secondary playmaker. Both great defenders. Neither projects as a prolific or above average range shooter either.

I'd surrender 4 for Castle without thinking. And they can take this Duke center for all I care.

Duke is a dump.

[MasterIchiro]

I would say they're more likely to move Castle than either Fox or Harper.

And they'd want a massive return for Castle. They kept him out of the Fox deal. But with Harper added, maybe see what Castle yields.

I'd feel surprised if they were to listen on pick 4 for Castle.

But would you trade precious VJ Edgecombe for Castle, knowing one of them is never going to act as a defacto PG?

One is clearly not a secondary playmaker. Both great defenders. Neither projects as a prolific or above average range shooter either.

I'd surrender 4 for Castle without thinking. And they can take this Duke center for all I care.

Duke is a dump.

I'd even include Tidjane Salaün, grant them their French fix.

[amcoolio]

I look at the Spurs and I'm watching how they're building. They're relevant because they're very carefully, methodically building around a special, very unique piece. Every choice is critical because you don't want to miss an opportunity to build around a generational player.

Mavs have a long road ahead with Flagg, but we could monitor them as well.

The Spurs build stands out for their high priority placed on playmaking.

They drafted and developed Sochan as a point forward.

They gave on-ball reps as they developed Vassell.

They took Wemby.

Then signed Chris Paul.

Then drafted Stephon Castle.

Then traded for D. Fox.

Now that Chris Paul is leaving, they could draft Harper.

Harper - Fox - Castle

Last year was Paul - Fox - Castle.

Their roster is deep with playmakers.

Ours is barren.

I would feel great about a trio of LaMelo - Mann - Fears/Harper.

Playmaking is a currency.

I'd even feel great about Melo - Jrue - Mann - Fears.

It's a team sport and the Spurs have always exemplified good team basketball since Tony Parker and Manu.

Their players know how to move with or without the ball and how to create shots for themselves and others.

No standing around the 3 point line. It's too predictable.

The Spurs are relevant because they won a lucky lottery and also got lucky again and won Harper, and that's it. Nothing methodical or skilled about what they are doing. They would have a worse future than us if they didn't win that lottery.

[fatlever]

i still dont see a longterm fit with fox/harper. one has to go.

What's their rush?

Harper is going to make an impact day one but Fox could carry them in a playoff series.

They will stagger their build. Fox is just getting warmed up over there. And they will not forfeit a generational talent in Harper.

That dream ended when we fell to 4.

not a "rush" hence i said "longterm". but by year 2-3, it would make sense to move one or the other

[fatlever]

ANYWAY... lets get this tread back on track to the hornets offseason and not spurs. point taken that spurs have playmaking. hornets need playmaking.

[yosemiteben]

Sochan is probably not a longterm core piece for them. I can see them cycling out some of these guys, but they're going to run with Harper, Fox, and Castle with Wemby. Hard for teams to match that level of playmaking. We are far far behind, and currently distracted by prospects who couldn't run offense in a PG situation.

On the plus side, they acquired pretty much all of the players you are talking about in a 12 month period. Not like this was some long time scheduled master strategy.

Correct. They have the right focus on playmaking at the right time (Wemby a bedrock force) and somehow manage to function in day-to-day activities with a giant horse shoe lodged up their ass through the last 3 lotteries.

So sure, with luck it can happen overnight. But they did start with surplus draft capital and turned 3 firsts into a primary playmaker in Fox.

They created a deficit of playmakers, tried to plug in draft picks into that role that failed, and then they lottery lucked their way into 3 of the 4 players you are holding out as plus playmakers that we should be targeting.

I think we all agree that playmaking is a good thing generally speaking. I don't really see much point in saying "hey let's try to replicate how the Spurs got here" since they didn't control the way they got here.

ETA: good point fats, sorry to continue the derail.

[LofJ]

The point that more playmaking is needed is accurate. I really like Edgecombe, but if he never develops a reliable handle he's a role player with limited playmaking ability. That's not ideal, we need someone that can run the offense when LaMelo is out. I don't know how we acquire that player, but Peterson should try whatever angle he can to trade up for Harper.