Tom Thibodeau fired pt 2

[Jeff Van Gully]

this is the coaching breakdown video i was waiting for. me undies.

Watch on YouTube

[god shammgod]

You’re not getting Giannis for OG and Mitch. That’s preposterous.

The only remotely logical trade is KAT for Giannis, and why...

i don't think the bucks even think about that for a second. they have no young players on the roster. no picks. lopez is a free agent. gary trent is a free agent. portis can be one. my guess is none of them are back. they need a complete rebuild and the assets to do that. kat does nothing for them. and he's not close in value if they flip him to a 3rd team. they'll get such better offers.

[thebuzzardman]

It’s probably kidd because of his relationship to Brunson. His willingness to tell stars on his team that they’re sucking on defense publicly. And that he’ll probably be easier to control than Thibs was by management.

It might not be about X’s and O’s.

Right. Again, I'd rather Bryant, based on what I PERCEIVE as his positive attributes.

But Thibs was a good coach, lets not get it twisted by the Thibs haters (ahem, even though I can be one).
Kidd seems to be a good coach. It's not a GREAT hire, but it seems it was about changing the voice and flexibility.

Still, not that excited by the hire.
Who would be? Only people praying the Knicks swap KAT for Giannis.

And even if that's a straight up deal:

Brunson
Mikal
OG
Giannis
Mitch/Huk?

That's not a modern NBA lineup.

But if it's Giannis at the 5, then the Knicks need a 3 or 4 who can space the floor, because OG is undersized at the 4 and Hart sucks at spacing the floor.

So, it would have to be THREE moves:

Hire Kidd
Trade for Giannis
Find a SG or SF or PF, depending on where you want to play Mikal and OG.

Eh.

[thebuzzardman]

You’re not getting Giannis for OG and Mitch. That’s preposterous.

The only remotely logical trade is KAT for Giannis, and why...

i don't think the bucks even think about that for a second. they have no young players on the roster. no picks. lopez is a free agent. gary trent is a free agent. portis can be one. my guess is none of them are back. they need a complete rebuild and the assets to do that. kat does nothing for them. and he's not close in value if they flip him to a 3rd team.

Oh yeah, I don't see it. It's the only theoretical that makes any sense.

I guess it's Kidd. Don't see the Knick handing over the reigns to a rookie coach.

[MrDollarBills]

I'm also convinced that George is pretty racist based on what he said about Carmelo.

Oh, absolutely. He trashed plenty of black players on those rosters because "they grew up without fathers." Just about any star who's played for him outside of Payton/kemp has called him a snake in the grass. And I haven't specifically heard them talk highly of him either.

I just did a little poking around - it sounds like he got grumpier and more prejudiced as he aged. Each stop the players liked him less.

I find it so weird that a coach who spent his life coaching predominantly Black men is just racist. Like where did empathy miss this man?

[Jeff Van Gully]

Oh, absolutely. He trashed plenty of black players on those rosters because "they grew up without fathers." Just about any star who's played for him outside of Payton/kemp has called him a snake in the grass. And I haven't specifically heard them talk highly of him either.

I just did a little poking around - it sounds like he got grumpier and more prejudiced as he aged. Each stop the players liked him less.

I find it so weird that a coach who spent his life coaching predominantly Black men is just racist. Like where did empathy miss this man?

in the power dynamics they lean into?

[MrDollarBills]

I am shocked and surprised by these negative reactions to our once beloved point guard Mark Jackson.... Shocked I tell ya!

I think the day Mark tried to heal Steph Curry's ankle with holy oil, then was filmed harassing passersby on a street corner by calling them "sinners" and forcing the bible on them is what sealed the end of his NBA career.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/ex-warriors-coach-mark-jacksons-church-tried-to-heal-stephen-currys-ankle-with-oil/

So dudes can cheat on beautiful black women, smoke crack, gamble on games and any and everything else but the minute anything religious is brought into the office is blacklist time?!
That's kinda foul.

I remember Marv Albert getting caught wearing women's underwear and still got back in the booth! but I digress

You're vastly oversimplifying this.

It's not all because Mark likes to overshare his religion. He's an openly homophobic ass hole who slurred the COO of the Warriors at the time and created a toxic work environment. And, as a result, nobody wants to work with him.

Seems like a good system.

[MrDollarBills]

I just did a little poking around - it sounds like he got grumpier and more prejudiced as he aged. Each stop the players liked him less.

I find it so weird that a coach who spent his life coaching predominantly Black men is just racist. Like where did empathy miss this man?

in the power dynamics they lean into?

See also: literally nearly every NCAA college football coach.

But yeah. I made friends from all walks of life due to basketball and baseball, so this stuff is just so silly to me that these men are like this.

[Knick4Real]

You don’t put out a championship mandate as Leon did, and then hire someone who’s never been a head coach ever..

If your theory is correct, then maybe we should hire Luke Walton -- or bring back Fizdale.

Both have been head coaches. Still, that doesn't automatically make them championship-caliber coaches.

The next coach needs to be someone who's knowledgeable in the modern NBA, who has the skill to juggle star personalities and egos, and who can think outside the box and not solely rely on what's "always worked" for 30 years. Someone willing to develop young players and acknowledge their bench exists would be good as well.

With the right assistant by his side (possibly a vet), I think Johnnie Bryant is the right person for the job.

Talk about taking this post out of context, you could literally mention every coach that has stunk..my point is the same, you don’t hire a first time coach if it’s championship or bust..it’s clearly the reason why Bryant has not been hired yet. With Bryant no longer in the phoenix running, if Rose wanted Bryant he’d be announced today, but as I said originally you don’t hire a first time coach after you declare this season as championship or bust..whether we agree with it or not..it’s just simple to put the pieces together

No, I understood your post. However, I respectfully think you may have misunderstood something.

Leon Rose never said the words "championship or bust," which suggests the next coach MUST win a championship next season or else. What he said was this:

“Our organization is singularly focused on winning a championship for our fans."

To me, that verbiage doesn't dictate an immediate championship, particularly since the roster is also likely to change this off-season. It only states Leon is not satisfied with moral victories and is still focused on winning it all.

Also, I don't necessarily believe that Bryant (or anyone else) hasn't been announced yet because, as you stated, "you don’t hire a first time coach if it’s championship or bust." As I said in another post, I think the front office wants to drag this on a bit to create the perception (for the public) that they did complete diligence and considered every possibility. Remember, they took a long time to name our last head coach but still picked Thibs, who was likely their choice all along.

Leon was grooming Johnnie Bryant under Thibs for a reason. I strongly believe he's still a viable option.

[MrDollarBills]

If your theory is correct, then maybe we should hire Luke Walton -- or bring back Fizdale.

Both have been head coaches. Still, that doesn't automatically make them championship-caliber coaches.

The next coach needs to be someone who's knowledgeable in the modern NBA, who has the skill to juggle star personalities and egos, and who can think outside the box and not solely rely on what's "always worked" for 30 years. Someone willing to develop young players and acknowledge their bench exists would be good as well.

With the right assistant by his side (possibly a vet), I think Johnnie Bryant is the right person for the job.

Talk about taking this post out of context, you could literally mention every coach that has stunk..my point is the same, you don’t hire a first time coach if it’s championship or bust..it’s clearly the reason why Bryant has not been hired yet. With Bryant no longer in the phoenix running, if Rose wanted Bryant he’d be announced today, but as I said originally you don’t hire a first time coach after you declare this season as championship or bust..whether we agree with it or not..it’s just simple to put the pieces together

No, I understood your post. However, I respectfully think you may have misunderstood something.

Leon Rose never said the words "championship or bust," which suggests the next coach MUST win a championship next season or else. What he said was this:

“Our organization is singularly focused on winning a championship for our fans."

To me, that verbiage doesn't dictate an immediate championship, particularly since the roster is also likely to change this off-season. It only states Leon is not satisfied with moral victories and is still focused on winning it all.

Also, I don't necessarily believe that Bryant (or anyone else) hasn't been announced yet because, as you stated, "you don’t hire a first time coach if it’s championship or bust." As I said in another post, I think the front office wants to drag this on a bit to create the perception (for the public) that they did complete diligence and considered every possibility. Remember, they took a long time to name our last head coach but still picked Thibs, who was likely their choice all along.

Leon was grooming Johnnie Bryant under Thibs for a reason. I strongly believe he's still a viable option.

People in the local media have been trying to spin Leon's words since the firing, so I'm not shocked that fans now think that he said we have to win a championship next year or else.

[Knick4Real]

I am shocked and surprised by these negative reactions to our once beloved point guard Mark Jackson.... Shocked I tell ya!

I think the day Mark tried to heal Steph Curry's ankle with holy oil, then was filmed harassing passersby on a street corner by calling them "sinners" and forcing the bible on them is what sealed the end of his NBA career.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/ex-warriors-coach-mark-jacksons-church-tried-to-heal-stephen-currys-ankle-with-oil/

So dudes can cheat on beautiful black women, smoke crack, gamble on games and any and everything else but the minute anything religious is brought into the office is blacklist time?!
That's kinda foul.

I remember Marv Albert getting caught wearing women's underwear and still got back in the booth! but I digress

I'm not judging anyone's off-court behavior as right or wrong. I'm only saying there's a reason Mark Jackson is no longer employed on any level in the NBA -- and I believe it's because of his religious/homophobic opinions.

[Jeff Van Gully]

I find it so weird that a coach who spent his life coaching predominantly Black men is just racist. Like where did empathy miss this man?

in the power dynamics they lean into?

See also: literally nearly every NCAA college football coach.

But yeah. I made friends from all walks of life due to basketball and baseball, so this stuff is just so silly to me that these men are like this.

yeah. that structure makes it easy. but it only reveals the person you are and want to be. power still leaves you with a choice on what to do with it.

sport and coaching is also where i've met some of the best people.

[Jeff Van Gully]

If your theory is correct, then maybe we should hire Luke Walton -- or bring back Fizdale.

Both have been head coaches. Still, that doesn't automatically make them championship-caliber coaches.

The next coach needs to be someone who's knowledgeable in the modern NBA, who has the skill to juggle star personalities and egos, and who can think outside the box and not solely rely on what's "always worked" for 30 years. Someone willing to develop young players and acknowledge their bench exists would be good as well.

With the right assistant by his side (possibly a vet), I think Johnnie Bryant is the right person for the job.

Talk about taking this post out of context, you could literally mention every coach that has stunk..my point is the same, you don’t hire a first time coach if it’s championship or bust..it’s clearly the reason why Bryant has not been hired yet. With Bryant no longer in the phoenix running, if Rose wanted Bryant he’d be announced today, but as I said originally you don’t hire a first time coach after you declare this season as championship or bust..whether we agree with it or not..it’s just simple to put the pieces together

No, I understood your post. However, I respectfully think you may have misunderstood something.

Leon Rose never said the words "championship or bust," which suggests the next coach MUST win a championship next season or else. What he said was this:

“Our organization is singularly focused on winning a championship for our fans."

To me, that verbiage doesn't dictate an immediate championship, particularly since the roster is also likely to change this off-season. It only states Leon is not satisfied with moral victories and is still focused on winning it all.

Also, I don't necessarily believe that Bryant (or anyone else) hasn't been announced yet because, as you stated, "you don’t hire a first time coach if it’s championship or bust." As I said in another post, I think the front office wants to drag this on a bit to create the perception (for the public) that they did complete diligence and considered every possibility. Remember, they took a long time to name our last head coach but still picked Thibs, who was likely their choice all along.

Leon was grooming Johnnie Bryant under Thibs for a reason. I strongly believe he's still a viable option.

i know i'm being JVG right now, but i think you both make sense.

while i agree with every word of this, snadler is not necessarily saying a first time coach won't get you there in a season. he could be saying it's unlikely a first-timer gets you there at all... even if there's some leeway on the when.

now, i have no idea if any of that is what they mean.

[MrDollarBills]

I think the day Mark tried to heal Steph Curry's ankle with holy oil, then was filmed harassing passersby on a street corner by calling them "sinners" and forcing the bible on them is what sealed the end of his NBA career.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/ex-warriors-coach-mark-jacksons-church-tried-to-heal-stephen-currys-ankle-with-oil/

So dudes can cheat on beautiful black women, smoke crack, gamble on games and any and everything else but the minute anything religious is brought into the office is blacklist time?!
That's kinda foul.

I remember Marv Albert getting caught wearing women's underwear and still got back in the booth! but I digress

I'm not judging anyone's off-court behavior as right or wrong. I'm only saying there's a reason Mark Jackson is no longer employed on any level in the NBA -- and I believe it's because of his religious/homophobic opinions.

He also tried to kick the Warriors ownership out of practice and told gay staffers that they're gonna burn in hell.

Mark is right where he deserves to be.

[MrDollarBills]

in the power dynamics they lean into?

See also: literally nearly every NCAA college football coach.

But yeah. I made friends from all walks of life due to basketball and baseball, so this stuff is just so silly to me that these men are like this.

yeah. that structure makes it easy. but it only reveals the person you are and want to be. power still leaves you with a choice on what to do with it.

sport and coaching is also where i've met some of the best people.

Same. Nothing makes you bond more than being on a team and fighting for each other. Sometimes even literally

[Carl_Karlson]

Maybe George Karl can light a fire into KAT. He's a proven winner but I do worry about his health and age.

Snake in the grass

[Ewings2ndcousin]

So dudes can cheat on beautiful black women, smoke crack, gamble on games and any and everything else but the minute anything religious is brought into the office is blacklist time?!
That's kinda foul.

I remember Marv Albert getting caught wearing women's underwear and still got back in the booth! but I digress

I'm not judging anyone's off-court behavior as right or wrong. I'm only saying there's a reason Mark Jackson is no longer employed on any level in the NBA -- and I believe it's because of his religious/homophobic opinions.

He also tried to kick the Warriors ownership out of practice and told gay staffers that they're gonna burn in hell.

Mark is right where he deserves to be.

All fair points and I concede. It was mostly my emotions that were talking anyway. Loved him as a player and thought he got a raw deal but you all brought back to memory the REAL reasons for his blacklisting and I'm good

[TheGreenArrow]

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[nykballa2k4]

I don't know too much about Kidd's schemes but Dallas was decimated by injuries but they were competitive throughout the season (and he got them to a finals the year before that). They were often playing with an extremely compromised roster. I do think we would need more analytical approach with the offense which might not be Kidd's strength.

he's a players coach. a relationship guy. the opposite of thibs in that way. if you want a brilliant tactician he's probably not your guy.

His offensive scheme is figure it out and play, utilize your best player and let them run the engine.

His defensive scheme:

Oh man, I remember that scheme. "the animal." What a blast from the past!

[nykballa2k4]

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Is this real?