Windhorst: Raptors making noise around the league looking for a “big fish” // Giannis & Toronto "Mutual Interest"/KD too

[Tor_Raps]

Barnes + Dick + 9th pick + 2026 1st Rounder + 2027 Pick swap is the most i see the Raptors offering.

Bucks are going to have to find a way to get their picks back from ghe Pelicans in any Giannis trade so I could see them forwarding Dick + 2026 1st rounder + 2027 pick swap to the Pelicans for that.

[Lord_Zedd]

Stein mentioning that the Knicks asking for permission to interview Jason Kidd for HC.

FWIW, Giannis credits Kidd alot for his overall development as a player, especially when Kidd gave Giannis the ball to run the show.

[TDGlenmanor]

Hoping it's a motivation tactic to for this roster to come back focused from the jump.

If NY is offering KAT + one of OG or Bridges then Bucks most likely take that.

[Scase]

Read on Twitter

Who could Knicks offer?

I'm thinking OG or Mikal + KAT

For those saying “the Bucks can’t tank”, I would then argue that trying for a Bridges or OG + KAT trade keeps them more competitive than anything we can offer.

Sorry, I know we are trying to speak it into existence by dismissing everyone else's alleged offer lol.

Those would be tricky trades to make happen with the size of the salaries, KAT + bridges for Giannis + portis works though. I don't think any trade with OG would work since he basically makes 40mil.

You're absolutely right though, if they offered Kat + Bridges, there is no way they take Scottie and the rest of our mediocre assets.

[Clutch0z24]

Read on Twitter

Who could Knicks offer?

I'm thinking OG or Mikal + KAT

Yep thats all they can offer....Which if Bucks want an actual good player package that would be a good starting offer....Thats why i have been saying along with Barnes we would need a good pick package along with it because other teams like the Knicks can offer the better players in the deal the thing that makes our offer even competitive would be we have the draft picks to offer....Without one or the other Bucks just take the Knicks deal....

[Scase]

Read on Twitter

Who could Knicks offer?

I'm thinking OG or Mikal + KAT

Yep thats all they can offer....Which if Bucks want an actual good player package that would be a good starting offer....Thats why i have been saying along with Barnes we would need a good pick package along with it because other teams like the Knicks can offer the better players in the deal the thing that makes our offer even competitive would be we have the draft picks to offer....Without one or the other Bucks just take the Knicks deal....

Too many people were thinking we had the best possible deals and thinking we could get Giannis while keeping Scottie, lunacy. If we are getting Giannis, we are gutting the team. Maybe Masai pulls off some magical trade, but it's pretty unlikely.

[NoBias]

[youtube][/youtube]

Also seeing a lot of people trying to trade RJ, and although he has his flaws I’d be more inclined to move IQ. We need a point guard who can get after it defensively. Masai has a lot of pieces to shuffle, I’m really interested in seeing how he tries to elevate our roster to contender status. I don’t see anything transpiring.. our bench is too inexperienced and our starting 5 needs more shooting. Shead could have a good year and step up, but we need more at the backup forwards and centre position.

If we need more shooting why are we getting rid of IQ? IQ is at least as good as RJ on defense as well.

He hasn’t played 40 games in 3 years.

[Sandman88]

Also seeing a lot of people trying to trade RJ, and although he has his flaws I’d be more inclined to move IQ. We need a point guard who can get after it defensively. Masai has a lot of pieces to shuffle, I’m really interested in seeing how he tries to elevate our roster to contender status. I don’t see anything transpiring.. our bench is too inexperienced and our starting 5 needs more shooting. Shead could have a good year and step up, but we need more at the backup forwards and centre position.

I’d love to have a 3&D PG, but I’d still rather have Quickley as a combo guard off of the bench than RJ as anything.

3&D PG? You mean like Jamal Shead? A lotta people writing him off as a PG of the future

[OakleyDokely]

I doubt MIL would have any serious interest in Bridges. Bridges only has a year on left on his deal and he would likely leave when his contract is up and his value as a rental wouldn't be a lot.

[Pointgod]

Read on Twitter

That second deal is laughable. People need to get it through their heads that the Bucks can’t tank without their picks.

[Pointgod]

Read on Twitter

Who could Knicks offer?

I'm thinking OG or Mikal + KAT

OG or Mikal have to be rerouted to either Pelicans or Blazers to get their picks back for this to make sense. Also Hart and Mitch Robinson would need to be involved. I think it’s insane for the Knicks to completely gut their team leaving them with just Brunson and Giannis and a bunch of stiffs

[sidsid]

Read on Twitter

I'm doing that 2nd deal without much thought.

Yeah, I'd actually say that second deal is better for us than the first, considering the Scottie/Giannis fit might not be great.

We'd still have a lineup of:

IQ/Shead
RJ/Jakobe
Ingram/Battle
Giannis/Mogbo
Poeltl/Chomche


I know it's not a great bench (all rookies), and there's a lot of injury risk, but we'd still have assets to grow. I'm assuming we'd be going into the tax to sign some vets, and that we could (in theory) pick up a few bargains to fill out the roster. Or, maybe we look to trade one of IQ or RJ to get depth.

Personally, I think the biggest argument against trading for Giannis would be that the cost will be too high. I think that more realistically, they'd want that package along with ALL the picks/swaps we can actually send. That makes it less ideal, because we'd be sort of stuck after that.

The first deal would never happen because it's 2 role players a rebuilding team doesn't care about, unless they can reroute them for more picks. But they'd get a better offer anywhere else.

The second one is much worse for us regardless because not only are we giving up the only star level asset that would return another star in a trade, and his best running mate if we dont (KD being very old possibly an exception, like Butler), we also lose the picks right when Giannis is likely leaving the team after his contract. The 28-29 picks. If you do a trade like this you want the 2030 picks traded out if you could.

It seems impossible that you'd turn down the first proposal even though you're giving up the entire future. You only lose 2 low trade value role players on contracts and one you'd have to move in Jak anyway because he can't play with Giannis. And you'd potentially get that value right back if for whatever reason it doesn't work out and you have to trade Giannis the next year. It's a ridiculous dream scenario.

[JB7]

Read on Twitter

Who could Knicks offer?

I'm thinking OG or Mikal + KAT

Yep thats all they can offer....Which if Bucks want an actual good player package that would be a good starting offer....Thats why i have been saying along with Barnes we would need a good pick package along with it because other teams like the Knicks can offer the better players in the deal the thing that makes our offer even competitive would be we have the draft picks to offer....Without one or the other Bucks just take the Knicks deal....

Too many people were thinking we had the best possible deals and thinking we could get Giannis while keeping Scottie, lunacy. If we are getting Giannis, we are gutting the team. Maybe Masai pulls off some magical trade, but it's pretty unlikely.

So if it is OG/Bridges + KAT, the Bucks aren't building a team around that as their core, so the question is, what can they turn those players into, in terms of future assets?

That is the appeal of a Raps deal (Barnes, Dick, Ochai, 9th pick, and a future FRP and some swaps). The youth and future growth is built into the deal.

The reality is, the Knicks don't have a lot to offer. Can they offer any picks at all? Everything they offer takes away from their team, which is already limited.

[sidsid]

Read on Twitter

Who could Knicks offer?

I'm thinking OG or Mikal + KAT

Yep thats all they can offer....Which if Bucks want an actual good player package that would be a good starting offer....Thats why i have been saying along with Barnes we would need a good pick package along with it because other teams like the Knicks can offer the better players in the deal the thing that makes our offer even competitive would be we have the draft picks to offer....Without one or the other Bucks just take the Knicks deal....

Too many people were thinking we had the best possible deals and thinking we could get Giannis while keeping Scottie, lunacy. If we are getting Giannis, we are gutting the team. Maybe Masai pulls off some magical trade, but it's pretty unlikely.

It all still largely depends on which direction the Bucks want to take the franchise (don't see a non-Scottie path regardless).

If they can rope in the Pelicans, that opens the lane for the pure tank moves.

Do they want to be young? Well then the established no-longer-young stars like KAT aren't that attractive.

Are you stuck in sunk cost fallacy land and just dont want to hand a high pick to another team? That's KAT/Bridges music.

In 2026 it's just a swap, and the Pelicans are in a crazy tough west with a still crazy Zion on their team. You might not be swapping that far down.

[Scase]

Yep thats all they can offer....Which if Bucks want an actual good player package that would be a good starting offer....Thats why i have been saying along with Barnes we would need a good pick package along with it because other teams like the Knicks can offer the better players in the deal the thing that makes our offer even competitive would be we have the draft picks to offer....Without one or the other Bucks just take the Knicks deal....

Too many people were thinking we had the best possible deals and thinking we could get Giannis while keeping Scottie, lunacy. If we are getting Giannis, we are gutting the team. Maybe Masai pulls off some magical trade, but it's pretty unlikely.

So if it is OG/Bridges + KAT, the Bucks aren't building a team around that as their core, so the question is, what can they turn those players into, in terms of future assets?

That is the appeal of a Raps deal (Barnes, Dick, Ochai, 9th pick, and a future FRP and some swaps). The youth and future growth is built into the deal.

The reality is, the Knicks don't have a lot to offer. Can they offer any picks at all? Everything they offer takes away from their team, which is already limited.

If the bucks bring back a KAT + whatever, they aren't rebuilding, they are likely just going to tread water and try and put out a playoff level team for a few years until they can tank when they have picks again. We've seen it enough times, if the team doesn't have/cant get back their picks, you get win now players and just tread water until you can tank.

That still keeps them somewhat competitive and they make gate revenue, the problem with our deal is that they will be a bad team, so they get the youth, but none of it is earth shattering and has a rather low ceiling, AND they don't have their picks. The whole purpose of youth is to grow them while being bad and adding to that core, but if you don't have your picks, you're just bad and young for no reason. At least with the Knicks trade they'd still have people paying to come see the games.

[NotMyKawhi]

Do you think Scottie will ever be as good as Giannis is now?

If not, how do you plan on ever getting a Giannis level player?

Can you at least not agree that if we stand pat, one of Ochai, jakobe or Dick is going to get very little minutes unless you play one at the PF?

So to maximize your assets, its probably best to trade at least one instead of them stuck on the bench?

[JB7]

Too many people were thinking we had the best possible deals and thinking we could get Giannis while keeping Scottie, lunacy. If we are getting Giannis, we are gutting the team. Maybe Masai pulls off some magical trade, but it's pretty unlikely.

So if it is OG/Bridges + KAT, the Bucks aren't building a team around that as their core, so the question is, what can they turn those players into, in terms of future assets?

That is the appeal of a Raps deal (Barnes, Dick, Ochai, 9th pick, and a future FRP and some swaps). The youth and future growth is built into the deal.

The reality is, the Knicks don't have a lot to offer. Can they offer any picks at all? Everything they offer takes away from their team, which is already limited.

If the bucks bring back a KAT + whatever, they aren't rebuilding, they are likely just going to tread water and try and put out a playoff level team for a few years until they can tank when they have picks again. We've seen it enough times, if the team doesn't have/cant get back their picks, you get win now players and just tread water until you can tank.

That still keeps them somewhat competitive and they make gate revenue, the problem with our deal is that they will be a bad team, so they get the youth, but none of it is earth shattering and has a rather low ceiling, AND they don't have their picks. The whole purpose of youth is to grow them while being bad and adding to that core, but if you don't have your picks, you're just bad and young for no reason. At least with the Knicks trade they'd still have people paying to come see the games.

That is 5 years they need to tread water then. Way too long.

I would take Barnes over anything the Knicks can offer, outside of Brunson. And even then, if I'm the Bucks and looking to rebuild, I probably take Barnes over Brunson.

[mtcan]

[youtube][/youtube]

Also seeing a lot of people trying to trade RJ, and although he has his flaws I’d be more inclined to move IQ. We need a point guard who can get after it defensively. Masai has a lot of pieces to shuffle, I’m really interested in seeing how he tries to elevate our roster to contender status. I don’t see anything transpiring.. our bench is too inexperienced and our starting 5 needs more shooting. Shead could have a good year and step up, but we need more at the backup forwards and centre position.

If we need more shooting why are we getting rid of IQ? IQ is at least as good as RJ on defense as well.

He hasn’t played 40 games in 3 years.

Are you saying IQ hasn't played 40 games in 3 years?

HUH?
He played 68 games the season he got traded split between NY and Toronto and would have played more if we weren't tanking.

Before that he played 81 games and 74 games in the 2 seasons prior.

Playing 33 games this past season was a combination of bad luck with his elbow injury in game 1 of the season and the blatant tanking effort just sitting him out.

I expect IQ to play 60-80 games next season.

[sidsid]

Yep thats all they can offer....Which if Bucks want an actual good player package that would be a good starting offer....Thats why i have been saying along with Barnes we would need a good pick package along with it because other teams like the Knicks can offer the better players in the deal the thing that makes our offer even competitive would be we have the draft picks to offer....Without one or the other Bucks just take the Knicks deal....

Too many people were thinking we had the best possible deals and thinking we could get Giannis while keeping Scottie, lunacy. If we are getting Giannis, we are gutting the team. Maybe Masai pulls off some magical trade, but it's pretty unlikely.

So if it is OG/Bridges + KAT, the Bucks aren't building a team around that as their core, so the question is, what can they turn those players into, in terms of future assets?

That is the appeal of a Raps deal (Barnes, Dick, Ochai, 9th pick, and a future FRP and some swaps). The youth and future growth is built into the deal.

The reality is, the Knicks don't have a lot to offer. Can they offer any picks at all? Everything they offer takes away from their team, which is already limited.

That is absolutely what they're doing if they make that trade. They don't have their picks, so no use losing games. Just sign some role players around them and see what happens in a weak east.

This is exactly how we got Kawhi. Outside of a package of young players the Celtics didn't want to give up, the Spurs didn't want to tank. So they got DeMar in exchange, who is right around the same age as KAT is now.

[Scase]

Yep thats all they can offer....Which if Bucks want an actual good player package that would be a good starting offer....Thats why i have been saying along with Barnes we would need a good pick package along with it because other teams like the Knicks can offer the better players in the deal the thing that makes our offer even competitive would be we have the draft picks to offer....Without one or the other Bucks just take the Knicks deal....

Too many people were thinking we had the best possible deals and thinking we could get Giannis while keeping Scottie, lunacy. If we are getting Giannis, we are gutting the team. Maybe Masai pulls off some magical trade, but it's pretty unlikely.

It all still largely depends on which direction the Bucks want to take the franchise (don't see a non-Scottie path regardless).

If they can rope in the Pelicans, that opens the lane for the pure tank moves.

Do they want to be young? Well then the established no-longer-young stars like KAT aren't that attractive.

Are you stuck in sunk cost fallacy land and just dont want to hand a high pick to another team? That's KAT/Bridges music.

In 2026 it's just a swap, and the Pelicans are in a crazy tough west with a still crazy Zion on their team. You might not be swapping that far down.

Like I mentioned above, from a business perspective you can still manage the revenue with that combo since it'll still be a competitive team. Not gonna do much outside the first round or so, but it'll still bring people in to watch, essentially an intentional treadmill until they have their picks and can tank again.

Ideally for them getting their picks back from the pels is top priority, but 3 team deals when 2 of them want to reset is a bit tricky. Should be interesting regardless of where it goes.