Official NBA General Discussion 2025-26 V1.0

[Raps in 4]

I have no **** idea how Indiana is doing this.

But funny enough for this board, Indy has been the definition of a treadmill team that just kept making trades and picking up decent pieces late in the draft until they finally broke through:

2016 - 45-37 and 1st round exit
2017 - 42-40 and 1st round exit
2018 - 48-34 and 1st round exit
2019 - 48-34 and 1st round exit
2020 - 45-38 and 1st round exit
2021 - 34-38 and missed playoffs
2022 - 25-57 and missed playoffs (got Mathurin with the 6th pick)
2023 - 35-47 and missed playoffs
2024 - 47-35 and ECF
2025 - 50-32 and finals

Their GM correctly identified that they were a treadmill team and traded his best player, a 25 year-old All-Star, for an unproven 21 year-old. Masai would never take that kind of risk. Siakam and Sabonis were at the same point in their careers (young, multi-time All-Stars/All-NBA players) when this trade happened. Would Masai have traded Siakam for Hali?

[djsunyc]

I have no **** idea how Indiana is doing this.

But funny enough for this board, Indy has been the definition of a treadmill team that just kept making trades and picking up decent pieces late in the draft until they finally broke through:

2016 - 45-37 and 1st round exit
2017 - 42-40 and 1st round exit
2018 - 48-34 and 1st round exit
2019 - 48-34 and 1st round exit
2020 - 45-38 and 1st round exit
2021 - 34-38 and missed playoffs
2022 - 25-57 and missed playoffs (got Mathurin with the 6th pick)
2023 - 35-47 and missed playoffs
2024 - 47-35 and ECF
2025 - 50-32 and finals

Their GM correctly identified that they were a treadmill team and traded his best player, a 25 year-old All-Star, for an unproven 21 year-old. Masai would never take that kind of risk. Siakam and Sabonis were at the same point in their careers (young, multi-time All-Stars/All-NBA players) when this trade happened. Would Masai have traded Siakam for Hali?

if sabonis won a ring in indy, they wouldnt have either.

[Rodrickle]

That's a pretty wild claim considering RJ alone has replaced the production of Siakam and can do better.

Bruh. This cannot be a serious post.

Just read the statsheet. Do the same for Ingram.

A wingman > PF anyday. How did we do without Kawhi with Pascal leading the way. Someone in this thread or another thread, because of the Pacers success, adovcating for building around Pascal and OG. You're not gonna win with that.

Again, a good PF will always require a good wingman to get anywhere in the playoffs. People easily forget how ineffective Siakam was on his own here.

It was repeating the same mistakes from the Bosh era where he couldn't do it on his own as well

PFs that can dribble pass and shoot like Siakam are super valuable in the new NBA, and there's very few of them. Its not like the Pacers have even a top 20 wing.

[KrazyP]

I have no **** idea how Indiana is doing this.

But funny enough for this board, Indy has been the definition of a treadmill team that just kept making trades and picking up decent pieces late in the draft until they finally broke through:

2016 - 45-37 and 1st round exit
2017 - 42-40 and 1st round exit
2018 - 48-34 and 1st round exit
2019 - 48-34 and 1st round exit
2020 - 45-38 and 1st round exit
2021 - 34-38 and missed playoffs
2022 - 25-57 and missed playoffs (got Mathurin with the 6th pick)
2023 - 35-47 and missed playoffs
2024 - 47-35 and ECF
2025 - 50-32 and finals

Their GM correctly identified that they were a treadmill team and traded his best player, a 25 year-old All-Star, for an unproven 21 year-old. Masai would never take that kind of risk. Siakam and Sabonis were at the same point in their careers (young, multi-time All-Stars/All-NBA players) when this trade happened. Would Masai have traded Siakam for Hali?

Paul George was 1 year away from free agency and the rumours were he was LA bound. Indy trading him at the time is no different than Masai trading Siakam. The Sabonis for Haliburton swap was trading one good young player for another.....I guess we could trade Barnes for somebody else?

[Boselecta]

I have no **** idea how Indiana is doing this.

But funny enough for this board, Indy has been the definition of a treadmill team that just kept making trades and picking up decent pieces late in the draft until they finally broke through:

2016 - 45-37 and 1st round exit
2017 - 42-40 and 1st round exit
2018 - 48-34 and 1st round exit
2019 - 48-34 and 1st round exit
2020 - 45-38 and 1st round exit
2021 - 34-38 and missed playoffs
2022 - 25-57 and missed playoffs (got Mathurin with the 6th pick)
2023 - 35-47 and missed playoffs
2024 - 47-35 and ECF
2025 - 50-32 and finals

There doing this because we basically gave them Pascal for free. They didn't have to give up any players of substance to get him.

That’s quite standard. Why would teams give up players of substance if they are trying to win?

FRPs and if you’re lucky a rotation player or two is enough to get players like Pascal.

Pascal has played a huge role but the pieces they have around him are why they are so good.

You need to give up something of substance to get something of substance. We should have gotten one of Mathurin, Nesmith, or Nembhard back in the trade. Now they are key rotation players around Pascal.

[TheGeneral99]

I have no **** idea how Indiana is doing this.

But funny enough for this board, Indy has been the definition of a treadmill team that just kept making trades and picking up decent pieces late in the draft until they finally broke through:

2016 - 45-37 and 1st round exit
2017 - 42-40 and 1st round exit
2018 - 48-34 and 1st round exit
2019 - 48-34 and 1st round exit
2020 - 45-38 and 1st round exit
2021 - 34-38 and missed playoffs
2022 - 25-57 and missed playoffs (got Mathurin with the 6th pick)
2023 - 35-47 and missed playoffs
2024 - 47-35 and ECF
2025 - 50-32 and finals

Their GM correctly identified that they were a treadmill team and traded his best player, a 25 year-old All-Star, for an unproven 21 year-old. Masai would never take that kind of risk. Siakam and Sabonis were at the same point in their careers (young, multi-time All-Stars/All-NBA players) when this trade happened. Would Masai have traded Siakam for Hali?

Masai literally just traded our 29 year old all-star and also our 27 year old 3+D elite player for younger guys in Barrett and Quickley.

He traded prime Powell for a young 22 year old Gary Trent Jr.

The fact is that Indiana never tanked to get where they are...they kept retooling and making trades when things weren't working like they wanted.

They hit on Hali, but they had a lot of misses before that...just like the Knicks had a ton of misses before finally hitting on Brunson.

The fact is Haliburton went 12th overall, nobody predicted he would ever become a superstar and when he was traded to Indiana he was a good player but nobody predicted he would be a superstar.

Also the Pacers didn't get just Hali back, they also got a young Buddy Hield who many thought would be better than what he was.

[YogurtProducer]

They really don't need to rely on SGA, though.

One of the craziest posts i have ever seen.

The guy who averages 21.7FGA is not "relied on" by the Thunder?

Not needing to rely on him taking 30+ and monopolizing the game. That tends to be the answer when you're facing a really strong defensive team, and your offense is in the mud with few answers. That's how parts of the Minny series ends up because you're secondary and tertiary scorers are having a hard time generating anything in the half court, and adapt by finding seams elsewhere.

It's how the Warriors last championship ended with Poole being unplayable and the beautiful motion offense devolving into Steph having to play standard pnr for an entire half to abuse Timelord/Horford with deep, deep 3s, because the Celtics D cut everything else off.

What the Thunder need to do is to stop rushing bad offense and maybe not miss 60% of their paint shots/layups either. And see if they have anyone like the Delon/Shamet duo they can play off the bench who were like +50 in the Knicks series (this is a joke, but showing the point). Because the Pacers are not a good playoff defense compared to what the Thunder had to go through, and beat convincingly.

That's why SGA should be relied on to manage the game, take over when they're in a rut, and be able to conserve more of his energy instead of having to be the entire offense.

Pretty much spelled out in my other post, but by your snipped quote it looks like you couldn't understand it or simply stopped reading there. Either way, glad I could help you out here.

Yeah, the teams whose ORTG went from 122 when SGA played to 111 when he sat TOTALLY doesn't rely on SGA. Literally from #1 offence in the NBA to bottom tier.

It is asinine to suggest they don't rely on SGA man. No matter how you put it.

[Raps in 4]

I have no **** idea how Indiana is doing this.

But funny enough for this board, Indy has been the definition of a treadmill team that just kept making trades and picking up decent pieces late in the draft until they finally broke through:

2016 - 45-37 and 1st round exit
2017 - 42-40 and 1st round exit
2018 - 48-34 and 1st round exit
2019 - 48-34 and 1st round exit
2020 - 45-38 and 1st round exit
2021 - 34-38 and missed playoffs
2022 - 25-57 and missed playoffs (got Mathurin with the 6th pick)
2023 - 35-47 and missed playoffs
2024 - 47-35 and ECF
2025 - 50-32 and finals

Their GM correctly identified that they were a treadmill team and traded his best player, a 25 year-old All-Star, for an unproven 21 year-old. Masai would never take that kind of risk. Siakam and Sabonis were at the same point in their careers (young, multi-time All-Stars/All-NBA players) when this trade happened. Would Masai have traded Siakam for Hali?

Masai literally just traded our 29 year old all-star and also our 27 year old 3+D elite player for younger guys in Barrett and Quickley.

He traded prime Powell for a young 22 year old Gary Trent Jr.

Siakam, OG, and Norm were all expiring when we traded them. He only moved on from them when his hand was forced, and when they were at their lowest value.

Pritchard traded Sabonis just as he was entering his prime.

The fact is that Indiana never tanked to get where they are...they kept retooling and making trades when things weren't working like they wanted.

It's true, but they took a big risk to land their superstar.

The fact is Haliburton went 12th overall, nobody predicted he would ever become a superstar and when he was traded to Indiana he was a good player but nobody predicted he would be a superstar.

Pritchard clearly did, or he wouldn't have traded his 25 year-old All-Star for him.

[YogurtProducer]

I have no **** idea how Indiana is doing this.

But funny enough for this board, Indy has been the definition of a treadmill team that just kept making trades and picking up decent pieces late in the draft until they finally broke through:

2016 - 45-37 and 1st round exit
2017 - 42-40 and 1st round exit
2018 - 48-34 and 1st round exit
2019 - 48-34 and 1st round exit
2020 - 45-38 and 1st round exit
2021 - 34-38 and missed playoffs
2022 - 25-57 and missed playoffs (got Mathurin with the 6th pick)
2023 - 35-47 and missed playoffs
2024 - 47-35 and ECF
2025 - 50-32 and finals

Their GM correctly identified that they were a treadmill team and traded his best player, a 25 year-old All-Star, for an unproven 21 year-old. Masai would never take that kind of risk. Siakam and Sabonis were at the same point in their careers (young, multi-time All-Stars/All-NBA players) when this trade happened. Would Masai have traded Siakam for Hali?

Masai literally just traded our 29 year old all-star and also our 27 year old 3+D elite player for younger guys in Barrett and Quickley.

He traded prime Powell for a young 22 year old Gary Trent Jr.

The fact is that Indiana never tanked to get where they are...they kept retooling and making trades when things weren't working like they wanted.

They hit on Hali, but they had a lot of misses before that...just like the Knicks had a ton of misses before finally hitting on Brunson.

The fact is Haliburton went 12th overall, nobody predicted he would ever become a superstar and when he was traded to Indiana he was a good player but nobody predicted he would be a superstar.

Also the Pacers didn't get just Hali back, they also got a young Buddy Hield who many thought would be better than what he was.

Yeah, the Pacers traded for Haliburton instead of tanking. That is fine and all, but Masai also got younger players and then also went out and tanked for a top 10 pick as well.

People acting like they wouldn't have been up in arms if we traded away Siakam and a pick for a former 12th overall pick.

But also - Hield was 29. He was not young.

[ForeverTFC]

I have no **** idea how Indiana is doing this.

But funny enough for this board, Indy has been the definition of a treadmill team that just kept making trades and picking up decent pieces late in the draft until they finally broke through:

2016 - 45-37 and 1st round exit
2017 - 42-40 and 1st round exit
2018 - 48-34 and 1st round exit
2019 - 48-34 and 1st round exit
2020 - 45-38 and 1st round exit
2021 - 34-38 and missed playoffs
2022 - 25-57 and missed playoffs (got Mathurin with the 6th pick)
2023 - 35-47 and missed playoffs
2024 - 47-35 and ECF
2025 - 50-32 and finals

Their GM correctly identified that they were a treadmill team and traded his best player, a 25 year-old All-Star, for an unproven 21 year-old. Masai would never take that kind of risk. Siakam and Sabonis were at the same point in their careers (young, multi-time All-Stars/All-NBA players) when this trade happened. Would Masai have traded Siakam for Hali?

LMAO. Ok bud.

They also traded their star player for proven players and not a boat load of picks. Who does that sound like?

[YogurtProducer]

Siakam, OG, and Norm were all expiring when we traded them. He only moved on from them when his hand was forced, and when they were at their lowest value.

Pritchard traded Sabonis just as he was entering his prime.

Y'all act like Pritchard wasn't given an incredible deal.

What 2nd year player averaging 14/4/8 on 58TS% was Masai gonna get at any point?

You guys like to point to these deals like at any point you can just go force a team to give you their best young player. Not every team is ran like **** like Sacramento.

[YogurtProducer]

I have no **** idea how Indiana is doing this.

But funny enough for this board, Indy has been the definition of a treadmill team that just kept making trades and picking up decent pieces late in the draft until they finally broke through:

2016 - 45-37 and 1st round exit
2017 - 42-40 and 1st round exit
2018 - 48-34 and 1st round exit
2019 - 48-34 and 1st round exit
2020 - 45-38 and 1st round exit
2021 - 34-38 and missed playoffs
2022 - 25-57 and missed playoffs (got Mathurin with the 6th pick)
2023 - 35-47 and missed playoffs
2024 - 47-35 and ECF
2025 - 50-32 and finals

Their GM correctly identified that they were a treadmill team and traded his best player, a 25 year-old All-Star, for an unproven 21 year-old. Masai would never take that kind of risk. Siakam and Sabonis were at the same point in their careers (young, multi-time All-Stars/All-NBA players) when this trade happened. Would Masai have traded Siakam for Hali?

LMAO. Ok bud.

They also traded their star player for proven players and not a boat load of picks. Who does that sound like?

They traded away PG13, Sabonis, and Oladipo in 3 different trades and got back exactly 0 first round picks.

We get back 3 firsts, Quickley, Barrett, Mogbo, Shead, etc. and now we shift the goal posts to something else. Like it is so obvious these posters just change their tune no matter what jus to **** on everything the FO does.

[TheGeneral99]

Their GM correctly identified that they were a treadmill team and traded his best player, a 25 year-old All-Star, for an unproven 21 year-old. Masai would never take that kind of risk. Siakam and Sabonis were at the same point in their careers (young, multi-time All-Stars/All-NBA players) when this trade happened. Would Masai have traded Siakam for Hali?

LMAO. Ok bud.

They also traded their star player for proven players and not a boat load of picks. Who does that sound like?

They traded away PG13, Sabonis, and Oladipo in 3 different trades and got back exactly 0 first round picks.

We get back 3 firsts, Quickley, Barrett, Mogbo, Shead, etc. and now we shift the goal posts to something else. Like it is so obvious these posters just change their tune no matter what jus to **** on everything the FO does.

Exactly this.

This was a treadmill team for nearly a decade that had not made it past the 1st round from 2016 to 2024...and after numerous trades, swapping players etc. they finally hit on one in Haliburton.

I'm not sure what he expects. Yes we waited to trade Siakam but that's because he was a young all-star and our team won 48 games in 2022 and had just drafted Scottie Barnes. The expectation was that the team would continue to improve but 2023 was a disappointment.

Did previous posters want to trade Norm in 2020 when the Raps were a 53 win team (72 game season) and went to game 7 against Boston?

[ForeverTFC]

LMAO. Ok bud.

They also traded their star player for proven players and not a boat load of picks. Who does that sound like?

They traded away PG13, Sabonis, and Oladipo in 3 different trades and got back exactly 0 first round picks.

We get back 3 firsts, Quickley, Barrett, Mogbo, Shead, etc. and now we shift the goal posts to something else. Like it is so obvious these posters just change their tune no matter what jus to **** on everything the FO does.

Exactly this.

This was a treadmill team for nearly a decade that had not made it past the 1st round from 2016 to 2024...and after numerous trades, swapping players etc. they finally hit on one in Haliburton.

I'm not sure what he expects. Yes we waited to trade Siakam but that's because he was a young all-star and our team won 48 games in 2022 and had just drafted Scottie Barnes. The expectation was that the team would continue to improve but 2023 was a disappointment.

Did previous posters want to trade Norm in 2020 when the Raps were a 53 win team (72 game season) and went to game 7 against Boston?

What I find hilarious with some of the tanking logic is that they don't want to treadmill for 5+ years in the hopes that they can make that 1 important trade, but they are more than happy to lose and throw away seasons for 5+ years in the hopes that they can draft that 1 important prospect.

[MiamiSPX]

Siakam, OG, and Norm were all expiring when we traded them. He only moved on from them when his hand was forced, and when they were at their lowest value.

Norm still had another year on his deal. I don't mind that trade. He identified a guy he didn't want to pay, and moved him for a younger player that was trending in the right direction. He just got it wrong, but you can't nail every single trade. I still give him kudos for the intent.

[sidsid]

One of the craziest posts i have ever seen.

The guy who averages 21.7FGA is not "relied on" by the Thunder?

Not needing to rely on him taking 30+ and monopolizing the game. That tends to be the answer when you're facing a really strong defensive team, and your offense is in the mud with few answers. That's how parts of the Minny series ends up because you're secondary and tertiary scorers are having a hard time generating anything in the half court, and adapt by finding seams elsewhere.

It's how the Warriors last championship ended with Poole being unplayable and the beautiful motion offense devolving into Steph having to play standard pnr for an entire half to abuse Timelord/Horford with deep, deep 3s, because the Celtics D cut everything else off.

What the Thunder need to do is to stop rushing bad offense and maybe not miss 60% of their paint shots/layups either. And see if they have anyone like the Delon/Shamet duo they can play off the bench who were like +50 in the Knicks series (this is a joke, but showing the point). Because the Pacers are not a good playoff defense compared to what the Thunder had to go through, and beat convincingly.

That's why SGA should be relied on to manage the game, take over when they're in a rut, and be able to conserve more of his energy instead of having to be the entire offense.

Pretty much spelled out in my other post, but by your snipped quote it looks like you couldn't understand it or simply stopped reading there. Either way, glad I could help you out here.

Yeah, the teams whose ORTG went from 122 when SGA played to 111 when he sat TOTALLY doesn't rely on SGA. Literally from #1 offence in the NBA to bottom tier.

It is asinine to suggest they don't rely on SGA man. No matter how you put it.

So you are of the opinion that Delon/Shamet/Deuce lineup bench rotations that torched the Pacers are elite and the Thunder couldn't possibly match them without SGA on the floor.

A strong statement, as you put it. We'll see if those guys get deals in the $30M based on your assessment with that awesome showing against the vaunted Pacers defense.

[deck]

They traded away PG13, Sabonis, and Oladipo in 3 different trades and got back exactly 0 first round picks.

We get back 3 firsts, Quickley, Barrett, Mogbo, Shead, etc. and now we shift the goal posts to something else. Like it is so obvious these posters just change their tune no matter what jus to **** on everything the FO does.

Exactly this.

This was a treadmill team for nearly a decade that had not made it past the 1st round from 2016 to 2024...and after numerous trades, swapping players etc. they finally hit on one in Haliburton.

I'm not sure what he expects. Yes we waited to trade Siakam but that's because he was a young all-star and our team won 48 games in 2022 and had just drafted Scottie Barnes. The expectation was that the team would continue to improve but 2023 was a disappointment.

Did previous posters want to trade Norm in 2020 when the Raps were a 53 win team (72 game season) and went to game 7 against Boston?

What I find hilarious with some of the tanking logic is that they don't want to treadmill for 5+ years in the hopes that they can make that 1 important trade, but they are more than happy to lose and throw away seasons for 5+ years in the hopes that they can draft that 1 important prospect.

Tanking logic also tends to ignore the fact that loosing devalues assets on your team, while winning, or even tread-milling, can help build asset value. Does Sabonis get you Haliburton if he had been playing for a 15-67 team rather than being a perennial first round exit? Perhaps not.

[sidsid]

Exactly this.

This was a treadmill team for nearly a decade that had not made it past the 1st round from 2016 to 2024...and after numerous trades, swapping players etc. they finally hit on one in Haliburton.

I'm not sure what he expects. Yes we waited to trade Siakam but that's because he was a young all-star and our team won 48 games in 2022 and had just drafted Scottie Barnes. The expectation was that the team would continue to improve but 2023 was a disappointment.

Did previous posters want to trade Norm in 2020 when the Raps were a 53 win team (72 game season) and went to game 7 against Boston?

What I find hilarious with some of the tanking logic is that they don't want to treadmill for 5+ years in the hopes that they can make that 1 important trade, but they are more than happy to lose and throw away seasons for 5+ years in the hopes that they can draft that 1 important prospect.

Tanking logic also tends to ignore the fact that loosing devalues assets on your team, while winning, or even tread-milling, can help build asset value. Does Sabonis get you Haliburton if he had been playing for a 15-67 team rather than being a perennial first round exit? Perhaps not.

Eh, that depends on the talent. Ainge was looking for 5 picks and a player in exchange for Lauri. By all accounts he could have gotten at least 3 and a player from the Warriors. That's about as good a haul as you're going to get for a fringe star, and Utah was deliberately sabotaging their own team.

On the flip side, showing your flaws in the playoffs can easily kill your value. I'm sure the Rockets were hoping Sengun would ball out, but he looked awfully Sabonis-like out there, and that's just what they really wanted to avoid.

What's more likely to happen in a tank environment is that a bad org with bad development and tanking may not get that potential out of the players at all, and they either disappear or bloom on another team. And other times you have SGA who becomes an MVP out of that environment.

[djsunyc]

there is no way for a gm/coach to know which guys will hit shots in the clutch and which won't. this is the type of luck and randomness that goes unappreciated. you just get good players and hope they perform. this is the same indy team that kept choking vs the celtics last ecf's.

[YogurtProducer]

Not needing to rely on him taking 30+ and monopolizing the game. That tends to be the answer when you're facing a really strong defensive team, and your offense is in the mud with few answers. That's how parts of the Minny series ends up because you're secondary and tertiary scorers are having a hard time generating anything in the half court, and adapt by finding seams elsewhere.

It's how the Warriors last championship ended with Poole being unplayable and the beautiful motion offense devolving into Steph having to play standard pnr for an entire half to abuse Timelord/Horford with deep, deep 3s, because the Celtics D cut everything else off.

What the Thunder need to do is to stop rushing bad offense and maybe not miss 60% of their paint shots/layups either. And see if they have anyone like the Delon/Shamet duo they can play off the bench who were like +50 in the Knicks series (this is a joke, but showing the point). Because the Pacers are not a good playoff defense compared to what the Thunder had to go through, and beat convincingly.

That's why SGA should be relied on to manage the game, take over when they're in a rut, and be able to conserve more of his energy instead of having to be the entire offense.

Pretty much spelled out in my other post, but by your snipped quote it looks like you couldn't understand it or simply stopped reading there. Either way, glad I could help you out here.

Yeah, the teams whose ORTG went from 122 when SGA played to 111 when he sat TOTALLY doesn't rely on SGA. Literally from #1 offence in the NBA to bottom tier.

It is asinine to suggest they don't rely on SGA man. No matter how you put it.

So you are of the opinion that Delon/Shamet/Deuce lineup bench rotations that torched the Pacers are elite and the Thunder couldn't possibly match them without SGA on the floor.

A strong statement, as you put it. We'll see if those guys get deals in the $30M based on your assessment with that awesome showing against the vaunted Pacers defense.

What?

How exactly do you get to that conclusion based on what I said?