Free Agent, Trade, Buyout, Extension & Conversion Thread, 2025 con't

[djFan71]

People keep using phrases like "writing the next two years off" or "tanking" and I think it's pretty extreme for most of the iterations of resets I see here. I think many got spoiled by having Jrue/Porzingis as all star caliber players still on the tail end of their primes as our 4th and 5th best players. That's not happening again most likely. The next window of contention for a Tatum/brown/White headlined team is more likely to look like the year prior where it was Horford/Smart/Brogdon/RWilliams/GWilliams rounding out the rotation.

Hauser and Pritchard are still here in those type of roles - Hauser gets moved in a lot of these scenarios but also some where he's kept. Many talk about trying to re-sign Kornet who kind of fits in that category too at a lower cost. The guys people talk about taking back - Klay Thompson, Patrick Williams, WCJ, Vanderbilt, etc. - aren't ideal players, but they're also not trash and they have contracts that could be used in trades for the right fits. Between developing Schierman, our picks this year, and our future picks (mainly 2026) you have to develop some guys too. That's just how it works.

If your long term goal is to build the 23-24 Celtics, then I think you're going to be disappointed. The 22-23 Celtics are a more realistic goal and it's very doable IMO. That's the road map I'd look to, and most of these tax resets are well within reason for that.

As someone who just used those phrases, I don't consider any of the reset plans from you or others those. Tanking to me is the plans to sell off KP, Jrue, Brown for #2 and trash, Hauser and even White gone and try to get a lottery pick this season and Spurs with Duncan it. I'm not onboard with that, though it is kinda sexy in its drama and unlikely upside.

I do think you've said before that you're more focused on 27-28 and later to be fully rebuilt by, but I never thought you were a completely bottom out before then guy. I think we mildly vary on how much to focus on being ready for Tatum in the 27 playoffs, but it's not a huge gap. I want to be 75% ready for 26 playoffs just in case, and really target 27 playoffs, and then keep refining. I think we basically agree on the type of team/guys we're having for next season, and the types of deals to get us there.

[Larry_Russell]

All the Jaylen Brown for draft pick trade ideas got me curious about how likely a top5 pick is to have a better career than Jaylen Brown and looking at the past 20 years, the chance of getting a better player than Jaylen Brown is pretty low: https://www.tankathon.com/past_drafts

Obviously could mean nothing for this draft if the FO really loves a guy but thought it was an interesting data point

Since Jaylen was Drafted

Tatum is better
Fox is close
Luka is better
Trae is a weird one, IMO would be way better with Tatum than Brown, but isnt as good as brown
Garland is close
Ja without off court is better
Zion without off court is better
Edwards is better
Cade is better
Mobley is better
Paolo is better
Wemby is better
Amen might be in future
Castle might be in future

So being generous that’s 14 guys in the last 8 drafts (so 40 top 5 picks total). So 35%. And that’s counting some questionable guys in that #

I only looked at top 5 picks. Sure, some weak drafts in there, and some bad choices from Management in there.

[hugepatsfan]

People keep using phrases like "writing the next two years off" or "tanking" and I think it's pretty extreme for most of the iterations of resets I see here. I think many got spoiled by having Jrue/Porzingis as all star caliber players still on the tail end of their primes as our 4th and 5th best players. That's not happening again most likely. The next window of contention for a Tatum/brown/White headlined team is more likely to look like the year prior where it was Horford/Smart/Brogdon/RWilliams/GWilliams rounding out the rotation.

Hauser and Pritchard are still here in those type of roles - Hauser gets moved in a lot of these scenarios but also some where he's kept. Many talk about trying to re-sign Kornet who kind of fits in that category too at a lower cost. The guys people talk about taking back - Klay Thompson, Patrick Williams, WCJ, Vanderbilt, etc. - aren't ideal players, but they're also not trash and they have contracts that could be used in trades for the right fits. Between developing Schierman, our picks this year, and our future picks (mainly 2026) you have to develop some guys too. That's just how it works.

If your long term goal is to build the 23-24 Celtics, then I think you're going to be disappointed. The 22-23 Celtics are a more realistic goal and it's very doable IMO. That's the road map I'd look to, and most of these tax resets are well within reason for that.

I've had the same signature since 2013 when Brad Stevens gave his thoughts about tanking. At the time there was no Tatum or Brown possibilities. Thank God Stevens is who he is. No tank commanding

And that quote came at a press conference introducing him for the head coaching job he accepted of a team that just traded away most of their best players for crap players and picks and then proceeded to do more of that for a year and a half. His first move as GM was to make a pretty bad value trade of the #16 pick for Horford on a big dela because it shed Kemba's money.

Making trades to fix the cap sheet does not mean tank commanding.

[Larry_Russell]

Every team including OKC has a two year window with current players in this CBA. Dort, J Williams, Holmgren, Hartenstein, Wallace all come up for extensions in 2 years. The aprons, penalties, and lack of flexibilty is going to make it hard for teams to stay together. In my opinion, you have to keep 2-3 players and try to sell high or get draft picks for everyone else. Again, in my opinion, in 2025 I would keep Tatum, Brown and White and try to set up for a run in 2026/2027.

OKC in a few years should keep SGA, Holmgren and Williams and everyone else is just a CBA casualty in my opinion.

Projected Cap in 2026-27 is 166.7. Lux Tax 202.5

Tatum 58.4
Brown 57
White 30.3
Would make a combined 145.7

Lets assume the team keeps Pritchard, Baylor and Walsh cause they are cheap and 100% need cheap talent.
Another 12.8 million - Total 158.5 - 6 players

Lets assume they trade all first round picks this year and next year to be 2nd rounders and they add 3 total second round players ( lets say 1.5 mill per year)
That is another 4.5 Million - Total 163 - 9 total players


That will have to come from trades for KP and Jrue.
Lets assume that trading those 2 players nets 2 solid rotation pieces. Not allstar level, but good supporting cast type players. And lets assume that Team is lucky enough to only take back 50% of those 2 players salaries in Contracts that last PAST next season.
That is another 32 million - Total 195 Million - 11 players

Lets say the team uses the MLE (currently below Lux tax so full MLE is available)
That's Another 15.5 million - Total 210 Million - 12 players

Now 2 more players needed...so lets assume that team signs 2 vet min guys at around 2.5 mill each
Thats another 5 million - Total 215 Million (Lux Tax team) - 14 players

And the roster you have is

PG: Pritchard
SG: White/Scheierman
SF: Brown/Walsh
PF: Tatum
C: Queta

and
2 solid role players from the Jrue and KP trade
2 - 2nd rounders with 1 year experience
1 - 1st or 2nd rounder with 1 year experience
MLE player
2 - Vet min guys


I see no way that that team is a championship level team at all...unless tatum comes back from a torn achillies and suddely is the clear cut MVP level player in the NBA that elevates everyone like Jokic does.

It's the space below the 1st and 2nd aprons. Celtics are not going to be a non-tax team and contend. 1st apron $216 and 2nd apron $229. Celtics have to develop players and draft well like every other team. In my opinion if you have Tatum, Brown and White you are always contenders.

There is limited space below the aprons.

And I dont see how just having those 3 guys wins when the other 9 are mins and rookie level players.

[phincsfan]

Since Jaylen was Drafted

Tatum is better
Fox is close
Luka is better
Trae is a weird one, IMO would be way better with Tatum than Brown, but isnt as good as brown
Garland is close
Ja without off court is better
Zion without off court is better
Edwards is better
Cade is better
Mobley is better
Paolo is better
Wemby is better
Amen might be in future
Castle might be in future

So being generous that’s 14 guys in the last 8 drafts (so 40 top 5 picks total). So 35%. And that’s counting some questionable guys in that #

I only looked at top 5 picks. Sure, some weak drafts in there, and some bad choices from Management in there.

I don't mind sticking up for JB one bit.

Listing #1 draft picks is wild, because they are supposed to be better than #2 and above draft picks.

The fascination with Luka is crazy. He's never taken care of his body and IMO sneakily made that move to LA happen. There's no way he was "surprised" by it. That's the type of player I NEVER want on my team. Go sell jerseys in another city.

Look at the #1 and #2 draft picks taken since 16'. Simmons, Ingram, Fultz, Lonzo, Ayton, Bagley, Wiseman. Green is good, but still too early. Chet I'm sold on yet.

Now for the #3 picks: RJ, LaMelo, Jabari and Scoot. RJ is terrible and the other 3 are putting up numbers on bad teams and making no impact.

As for Fox, lets see how he does now that there's actual pressure for him not to just be a stat rat on a bad team like he was for the Kings.

Darius Garland

[GoCeltics123]

All the Jaylen Brown for draft pick trade ideas got me curious about how likely a top5 pick is to have a better career than Jaylen Brown and looking at the past 20 years, the chance of getting a better player than Jaylen Brown is pretty low: https://www.tankathon.com/past_drafts

Obviously could mean nothing for this draft if the FO really loves a guy but thought it was an interesting data point

Since Jaylen was Drafted

Tatum is better
Fox is close
Luka is better
Trae is a weird one, IMO would be way better with Tatum than Brown, but isnt as good as brown
Garland is close
Ja without off court is better
Zion without off court is better
Edwards is better
Cade is better
Mobley is better
Paolo is better
Wemby is better
Amen might be in future
Castle might be in future

Tatum's better yes
Fox is not better
Luka is better
Trae is better than Jaylen but would not be better without JT at all because defense exists
Garland is close LMFAOOOOO c'mon man
Ja is slightly better but tbh Ja was awful this year
Zion is not better by any stretch what???
Ant better
Cade better
Mobley wasn't better until this year, indisputably
Paolo better
Wemby better
Amen maybe
Castle probably not

You took some realllll liberties on this man

[GoCeltics123]

I fully understand the financial realities of a Jaylen Brown trade for this team, so if they do it I get it, but people who don't like him are absolutely lying to themselves if they wouldn't take his career arc over like 80-90% of top 5-10 draft picks over the years.

The 2024 run ALONE cemented him in the top tier of Celtics, like that run probably got his jersey retired here. I know people complain about it on here, but IMO I would've picked him for Finals MVP. He hit the biggest shot of the series, that jumper in Game 3 basically sealed the title

[Larry_Russell]

All the Jaylen Brown for draft pick trade ideas got me curious about how likely a top5 pick is to have a better career than Jaylen Brown and looking at the past 20 years, the chance of getting a better player than Jaylen Brown is pretty low: https://www.tankathon.com/past_drafts

Obviously could mean nothing for this draft if the FO really loves a guy but thought it was an interesting data point

Since Jaylen was Drafted

Tatum is better
Fox is close
Luka is better
Trae is a weird one, IMO would be way better with Tatum than Brown, but isnt as good as brown
Garland is close
Ja without off court is better
Zion without off court is better
Edwards is better
Cade is better
Mobley is better
Paolo is better
Wemby is better
Amen might be in future
Castle might be in future

Tatum's better yes
Fox is not better
Luka is better
Trae is better than Jaylen but would not be better without JT at all because defense exists
Garland is close LMFAOOOOO c'mon man
Ja is slightly better but tbh Ja was awful this year
Zion is not better by any stretch what???
Ant better
Cade better
Mobley wasn't better until this year, indisputably
Paolo better
Wemby better
Amen maybe
Castle probably not

You took some realllll liberties on this man

Is close

Is not

Is better


Reading comprehension....

[GoCeltics123]

Since Jaylen was Drafted

Tatum is better
Fox is close
Luka is better
Trae is a weird one, IMO would be way better with Tatum than Brown, but isnt as good as brown
Garland is close
Ja without off court is better
Zion without off court is better
Edwards is better
Cade is better
Mobley is better
Paolo is better
Wemby is better
Amen might be in future
Castle might be in future

Tatum's better yes
Fox is not better
Luka is better
Trae is better than Jaylen but would not be better without JT at all because defense exists
Garland is close LMFAOOOOO c'mon man
Ja is slightly better but tbh Ja was awful this year
Zion is not better by any stretch what???
Ant better
Cade better
Mobley wasn't better until this year, indisputably
Paolo better
Wemby better
Amen maybe
Castle probably not

You took some realllll liberties on this man

Is close

Is not

Is better


Reading comprehension....

I can comprehend you saying Darius Garland being in Jaylen's league is **** delusional. Darius Garland is one of the worst playoff droppers in the league, I don't care that he's good in the regular season, he's not in Jaylen's league.

De'Aaron Fox is pretty good, but outside of the 2022-23 season, has pretty much been worse than Jaylen every year he's been in the league. He's great for counting stats, but he's a horrible defender and can't shoot. There's a reason he's only made one All-Star team.

Zion can't stay healthy for ****, is overweight and is horrible on defense. Great on offense when he plays, but rarely plays. Saying he's better than Jaylen is brain rot.

Mobley passed Jaylen this year, but again, just doesn't have the postseason resume.

The point stands, if they trade Jaylen this year, I'll totally understand it. But Jaylen's career surpasses like 85% of top 5 picks, pretty indisputably.

[Celts17Pride]

I fully understand the financial realities of a Jaylen Brown trade for this team, so if they do it I get it, but people who don't like him are absolutely lying to themselves if they wouldn't take his career arc over like 80-90% of top 5-10 draft picks over the years.

The 2024 run ALONE cemented him in the top tier of Celtics, like that run probably got his jersey retired here. I know people complain about it on here, but IMO I would've picked him for Finals MVP. He hit the biggest shot of the series, that jumper in Game 3 basically sealed the title

The issue is there is a bunch of Tatum fanboys in this forum not Celtics fans. Probably about 50% of this forum will be rooting against the Celtics next year if Jaylen Brown stays because they don't want the Celtics and Brown to have success while Tatum isn't playing. It just is what it is. Been that way for a while.

[GoCeltics123]

I fully understand the financial realities of a Jaylen Brown trade for this team, so if they do it I get it, but people who don't like him are absolutely lying to themselves if they wouldn't take his career arc over like 80-90% of top 5-10 draft picks over the years.

The 2024 run ALONE cemented him in the top tier of Celtics, like that run probably got his jersey retired here. I know people complain about it on here, but IMO I would've picked him for Finals MVP. He hit the biggest shot of the series, that jumper in Game 3 basically sealed the title

The issue is there is a bunch of Tatum fanboys in this forum not Celtics fans. Probably about 50% of this forum will be rooting against the Celtics next year if Jaylen Brown stays because they don't want the Celtics and Brown to have success while Tatum isn't playing. It just is what it is. Been that way for a while.

That's the case everywhere too, you see it on reddit and twitter and all that. Kinda sad for sure.

Jaylen had a bad year this year, but objectively was playing on a torn meniscus in the playoffs, so that's tough. But 2024 was **** magic. That was his best season by far

[phincsfan]

Going by the reports, JB was playing with that knee injury the final month and a half. He was averaging 23ppg Oct thru Feb and then the drop off to 18ppg happened in March. So I'm gonna assume the injury happened in February because that's when the inactives started happening. I also remember the talk in the media was he needed the all star break to rest the knee narrative. He was on track to have his 23ppg for the season before the injury.

I'll take JB over ANY #2 player without really looking into who the main #2's are right now.

[165bows]

I fully understand the financial realities of a Jaylen Brown trade for this team, so if they do it I get it, but people who don't like him are absolutely lying to themselves if they wouldn't take his career arc over like 80-90% of top 5-10 draft picks over the years.

The 2024 run ALONE cemented him in the top tier of Celtics, like that run probably got his jersey retired here. I know people complain about it on here, but IMO I would've picked him for Finals MVP. He hit the biggest shot of the series, that jumper in Game 3 basically sealed the title

The issue is there is a bunch of Tatum fanboys in this forum not Celtics fans. Probably about 50% of this forum will be rooting against the Celtics next year if Jaylen Brown stays because they don't want the Celtics and Brown to have success while Tatum isn't playing. It just is what it is. Been that way for a while.

That's the case everywhere too, you see it on reddit and twitter and all that. Kinda sad for sure.

Jaylen had a bad year this year, but objectively was playing on a torn meniscus in the playoffs, so that's tough. But 2024 was **** magic. That was his best season by far

Right Jaylen is a really good great player but not a great great player - counterpoint is exactly what you said, there’s very few coming through in the draft that are better regardless of draft slot.

Draft is a lot more unpredictable than it’s made out to be even at the top. For some reason it’s been even more so the last few years.

My school of thought is that at that level you only scale up, ie if they trade Jaylen they need someone definitively better coming back and that’s just a real short list when it comes to guys becoming available.

[Larry_Russell]

Tatum's better yes
Fox is not better
Luka is better
Trae is better than Jaylen but would not be better without JT at all because defense exists
Garland is close LMFAOOOOO c'mon man
Ja is slightly better but tbh Ja was awful this year
Zion is not better by any stretch what???
Ant better
Cade better
Mobley wasn't better until this year, indisputably
Paolo better
Wemby better
Amen maybe
Castle probably not

You took some realllll liberties on this man

Is close

Is not

Is better


Reading comprehension....

I can comprehend you saying Darius Garland being in Jaylen's league is **** delusional. Darius Garland is one of the worst playoff droppers in the league, I don't care that he's good in the regular season, he's not in Jaylen's league.

De'Aaron Fox is pretty good, but outside of the 2022-23 season, has pretty much been worse than Jaylen every year he's been in the league. He's great for counting stats, but he's a horrible defender and can't shoot. There's a reason he's only made one All-Star team.

Zion can't stay healthy for ****, is overweight and is horrible on defense. Great on offense when he plays, but rarely plays. Saying he's better than Jaylen is brain rot.

Mobley passed Jaylen this year, but again, just doesn't have the postseason resume.

The point stands, if they trade Jaylen this year, I'll totally understand it. But Jaylen's career surpasses like 85% of top 5 picks, pretty indisputably.

Doing some pile of stretching there.

[Larry_Russell]

The issue is there is a bunch of Tatum fanboys in this forum not Celtics fans. Probably about 50% of this forum will be rooting against the Celtics next year if Jaylen Brown stays because they don't want the Celtics and Brown to have success while Tatum isn't playing. It just is what it is. Been that way for a while.

That's the case everywhere too, you see it on reddit and twitter and all that. Kinda sad for sure.

Jaylen had a bad year this year, but objectively was playing on a torn meniscus in the playoffs, so that's tough. But 2024 was **** magic. That was his best season by far

Right Jaylen is a really good great player but not a great great player - counterpoint is exactly what you said, there’s very few coming through in the draft that are better regardless of draft slot.

Draft is a lot more unpredictable than it’s made out to be even at the top. For some reason it’s been even more so the last few years.

My school of thought is that at that level you only scale up, ie if they trade Jaylen they need someone definitively better coming back and that’s just a real short list when it comes to guys becoming available.

Jaylen is a good player. An allstar level player.

Paid and treated like an all nba player.

[Larry_Russell]

I fully understand the financial realities of a Jaylen Brown trade for this team, so if they do it I get it, but people who don't like him are absolutely lying to themselves if they wouldn't take his career arc over like 80-90% of top 5-10 draft picks over the years.

The 2024 run ALONE cemented him in the top tier of Celtics, like that run probably got his jersey retired here. I know people complain about it on here, but IMO I would've picked him for Finals MVP. He hit the biggest shot of the series, that jumper in Game 3 basically sealed the title

The issue is there is a bunch of Tatum fanboys in this forum not Celtics fans. Probably about 50% of this forum will be rooting against the Celtics next year if Jaylen Brown stays because they don't want the Celtics and Brown to have success while Tatum isn't playing. It just is what it is. Been that way for a while.

That simply isnt true

[Hal14]

I fully understand the financial realities of a Jaylen Brown trade for this team, so if they do it I get it, but people who don't like him are absolutely lying to themselves if they wouldn't take his career arc over like 80-90% of top 5-10 draft picks over the years.

The 2024 run ALONE cemented him in the top tier of Celtics, like that run probably got his jersey retired here. I know people complain about it on here, but IMO I would've picked him for Finals MVP. He hit the biggest shot of the series, that jumper in Game 3 basically sealed the title

The issue is there is a bunch of Tatum fanboys in this forum not Celtics fans. Probably about 50% of this forum will be rooting against the Celtics next year if Jaylen Brown stays because they don't want the Celtics and Brown to have success while Tatum isn't playing. It just is what it is. Been that way for a while.

I think most of the Tatum stans/JB haters don't post here anymore.

It's pretty much just Curm left who hates JB and maybe a few others..

[FlatearthZorro]

Jaylen and White are my current fav C's players. When Jaylen is healthy and the moment is there he will take it(he averaged ~30 against the comeback kids and bullied nearly everybody who guarded him).
Same goes for White. White represents everything a Celtic should be and he deserves at least 1 more title. I hope it will happen, but I fear Joe will waste it all as he has the past 2 out of 3 years coaching the best NBA team. It's an emberrassment.

[Fierce1]

Jaylen and White are my current fav C's players. When Jaylen is healthy and the moment is there he will take it(he averaged ~30 against the comeback kids and bullied nearly everybody who guarded him).
Same goes for White. White represents everything a Celtic should be and he deserves at least 1 more title. I hope it will happen, but I fear Joe will waste it all as he has the past 2 out of 3 years coaching the best NBA team. It's an emberrassment.

2023 was a different Celtics team and the Cs were not the best team that season.

[He_Got_Game]

Jaylen Brown is probably going to average 30 next season and lead the team to the playoffs. This will be the first time we get to see either of the Jay's with the full set of keys. I'm kind of excited to see what happens with Brown running the ship for a full season. It will bring a lot of clarity.