Windhorst: Raptors making noise around the league looking for a “big fish” // Giannis & Toronto "Mutual Interest"/KD too

[WuTang_CMB]

My guess is Giannis has a short list of teams (Giannis saying Toronto or nothing would be like winning the lotto 649 so it aint happening)

I do think its possible we are on that short list (mainly cuz of Masai)

Our package needs to be competitive and I actually think Giannis would also want Bucks to be somewhat satisfied and not leave them high and dry

This fantasy world where we don't include Barnes in the package is just that, fantasy

The package framework will need to be

Barnes
RJ
Dick or JKW
9th pick
2026 FRP

I don't know how many more picks Masai would put on top of that

[MiamiSPX]

Do people here actually believe if Bucks get Barnes/Dick/Ochai/9th Pick + 1 or 2 picks is appealing enough?....I mean look at how bad our Raptors team has been with Barnes/Dick/Ochai + alot more actual NBA players than the Bucks will have with that core....We were a lottery team with that core for many years....Unless you think that 9th pick can get you another star level player besides Barnes but thats a question mark...

The reason that package would be enticing to the Bucks would be the pick package to go along with the young guys because most likely with a core of Barnes/Dick/Ochai/9th pick team they are likely to be a Lotto team for a while with no draft picks to show for.....Sounds like a tough sell if im running the Bucks...

We would prolly have to give up more draft picks if we want to beat out teams if teams start throwing out their best players in packages along with 2-3 elite level players....We can all sit here and say "Bucks won't want them players and would want to go young" Well that would make sense if they could tank the following years to keep building on the young guys they aquire...But without draft picks going young is pretty pointless....

Our pick package along with our young players is the reason we are even enticing to trade with not one or the other.

I think it only really works if Giannis says he'll here and only here.

Yep i think even if we are on the list of teams Giannis asks to go too we have a chance....But i do actually believe it will cost more than what alot of posters here think it will cost.....Because other teams may start offering up their best player and a few teams in the East have better players than Barnes if Bucks decide to go for the best player package route....With Barnes i think the draft pick package would be the only thing the Bucks would be interested in....I don't think Bucks think high on Dick/Ochai....I think Barnes/9th and future picks are what Bucks will have most interest in...

We also don’t know that the Bucks would covet Barnes. They may not be thrilled about a guy who has seemingly stagnated and has yet to start his $225 million, guaranteed contract. I mean, let's not pretend his last 80-100 games haven't happened. I think the majority of us aren't moving Barnes for Giannis JUST because the latter is a top 3 player. There are a good portion of us who are now willing to move him because the evidence is mounting that he likely isn't going to be what we hoped. I mean, I am just saying the quiet part out loud and you all know it lol.

[Scase]

I think it only really works if Giannis says he'll here and only here.

Yep i think even if we are on the list of teams Giannis asks to go too we have a chance....But i do actually believe it will cost more than what alot of posters here think it will cost.....Because other teams may start offering up their best player and a few teams in the East have better players than Barnes if Bucks decide to go for the best player package route....With Barnes i think the draft pick package would be the only thing the Bucks would be interested in....I don't think Bucks think high on Dick/Ochai....I think Barnes/9th and future picks are what Bucks will have most interest in...

We also don’t know that the Bucks would covet Barnes. They may not be thrilled about a guy who has seemingly stagnated and has yet to start his $225 million, guaranteed contract. I mean, let's not pretend his last 80-100 games haven't happened. I think the majority of us aren't moving Barnes for Giannis JUST because the latter is a top 3 player. There are a good portion of us who are now willing to move him because the evidence is mounting that he likely isn't going to be what we hoped. I mean, I am just saying the quiet part out loud and you all know it lol.

Too many people aren't willing to adjust their expectations based on what we've seen him do, I'm not against moving Scottie, I'm just not super gung ho about doing it for Giannis as it would cost us a lot overall, and I don't see us coming out the other side with a team having contender level quality. Definitely better than what we have now though.

But yeah, Scottie has had a rough couple of years and while he still has potential, youth and potential have an expiry date.

[M3tro]

I think it only really works if Giannis says he'll here and only here.

Yep i think even if we are on the list of teams Giannis asks to go too we have a chance....But i do actually believe it will cost more than what alot of posters here think it will cost.....Because other teams may start offering up their best player and a few teams in the East have better players than Barnes if Bucks decide to go for the best player package route....With Barnes i think the draft pick package would be the only thing the Bucks would be interested in....I don't think Bucks think high on Dick/Ochai....I think Barnes/9th and future picks are what Bucks will have most interest in...

We also don’t know that the Bucks would covet Barnes. They may not be thrilled about a guy who has seemingly stagnated and has yet to start his $225 million, guaranteed contract. I mean, let's not pretend his last 80-100 games haven't happened. I think the majority of us aren't moving Barnes for Giannis JUST because the latter is a top 3 player. There are a good portion of us who are now willing to move him because the evidence is mounting that he likely isn't going to be what we hoped. I mean, I am just saying the quiet part out loud and you all know it lol.

That's secondary to me.

You got to give to get and this is Giannis. Will the next 4 years of Giannis be better than the next 4 with Scottie? I'm willing to bet yes.

[earthtone]

I think it only really works if Giannis says he'll here and only here.

Yep i think even if we are on the list of teams Giannis asks to go too we have a chance....But i do actually believe it will cost more than what alot of posters here think it will cost.....Because other teams may start offering up their best player and a few teams in the East have better players than Barnes if Bucks decide to go for the best player package route....With Barnes i think the draft pick package would be the only thing the Bucks would be interested in....I don't think Bucks think high on Dick/Ochai....I think Barnes/9th and future picks are what Bucks will have most interest in...

We also don’t know that the Bucks would covet Barnes. They may not be thrilled about a guy who has seemingly stagnated and has yet to start his $225 million, guaranteed contract. I mean, let's not pretend his last 80-100 games haven't happened. I think the majority of us aren't moving Barnes for Giannis JUST because the latter is a top 3 player. There are a good portion of us who are now willing to move him because the evidence is mounting that he likely isn't going to be what we hoped. I mean, I am just saying the quiet part out loud and you all know it lol.

I think the thought that Scottie's already stagnated is just doomerism tbh. Guys rarely peak at 23. Scottie's already been an all-star and still has so much room for growth and development.

[DreamTeam09]

Empyting the cubbord for any player right now doesn't make any sense for a majority of teams, especially when depth is the new king for team building + maintaining health.
Plus ppl always overrate or exaggerate the returns in these star deals.

[Nebuchadnezzar]

For those saying “the Bucks can’t tank”, I would then argue that trying for a Bridges or OG + KAT trade keeps them more competitive than anything we can offer.

Sorry, I know we are trying to speak it into existence by dismissing everyone else's alleged offer lol.

This is not a real source, Gary's link to his website is a dead link, he only has 9000 k followers, and is not new York based.

I love the disrespect from this board towards reports from writers who have been close to the team for decades, and then some guy Gary with a podcast tweets about Giannis to the Knicks, it's treated like it's scripture.

Nobody said it was a real source. I am pointing out that there are packages out there better than ours IF the Bucks don't want to be bad, like others keep alluding to. But i mean, from everything you guys are saying, we are the only ones that will offer up a lot for a top 3 player, AND he is going to want to be in Toronto despite Masai's contract status. I'm pretty sure we are all safe to go ahead and order the jersey....

I think it's fair that we only discuss actual reports here and not fantasy trades, there's a thread for that.

[NoBias]

[youtube][/youtube]

If we need more shooting why are we getting rid of IQ? IQ is at least as good as RJ on defense as well.

He hasn’t played 40 games in 3 years.

Are you saying IQ hasn't played 40 games in 3 years?

HUH?
He played 68 games the season he got traded split between NY and Toronto and would have played more if we weren't tanking.

Before that he played 81 games and 74 games in the 2 seasons prior.

Playing 33 games this past season was a combination of bad luck with his elbow injury in game 1 of the season and the blatant tanking effort just sitting him out.

I expect IQ to play 60-80 games next season.

He hasn’t played over 40 games in each of his last 3 seasons is what I meant. I don’t care what he did 4 seasons ago.. tank or not.

He is a 38% 3pt shooter which is good, but can’t take his man off the dribble, and he is not a great POA defender. Couple that with his availability, is that what you want from a starting PG on a championship calibre team? Would he want to be a 6th man again? I doubt it.

[earthtone]

[youtube][/youtube]

He hasn’t played 40 games in 3 years.

Are you saying IQ hasn't played 40 games in 3 years?

HUH?
He played 68 games the season he got traded split between NY and Toronto and would have played more if we weren't tanking.

Before that he played 81 games and 74 games in the 2 seasons prior.

Playing 33 games this past season was a combination of bad luck with his elbow injury in game 1 of the season and the blatant tanking effort just sitting him out.

I expect IQ to play 60-80 games next season.

He hasn’t played over 40 games in each of his last 3 seasons is what I meant. I don’t care what he did 4 seasons ago.. tank or not.

He is a 38% 3pt shooter which is good, but can’t take his man off the dribble, and he is not a great POA defender. Couple that with his availability, is that what you want from a starting PG on a championship calibre team? Would he want to be a 6th man again? I doubt it.

He played 81 games in 2022-23 , 68 games in 2023-24, and 38 games in 2024-25.

You're looking at the time he split in NYK/TOR in 2023/24 as two different seasons.

[Raps in 4]

If OKC losea this series, that's where Giannis is going next season. No team (other than SAS) can come up with an offer that competes with theirs.

He'd also be silly not to want to go there. He'd easily win at least 2-3 rings playing with SGA

[MiamiSPX]

Yep i think even if we are on the list of teams Giannis asks to go too we have a chance....But i do actually believe it will cost more than what alot of posters here think it will cost.....Because other teams may start offering up their best player and a few teams in the East have better players than Barnes if Bucks decide to go for the best player package route....With Barnes i think the draft pick package would be the only thing the Bucks would be interested in....I don't think Bucks think high on Dick/Ochai....I think Barnes/9th and future picks are what Bucks will have most interest in...

We also don’t know that the Bucks would covet Barnes. They may not be thrilled about a guy who has seemingly stagnated and has yet to start his $225 million, guaranteed contract. I mean, let's not pretend his last 80-100 games haven't happened. I think the majority of us aren't moving Barnes for Giannis JUST because the latter is a top 3 player. There are a good portion of us who are now willing to move him because the evidence is mounting that he likely isn't going to be what we hoped. I mean, I am just saying the quiet part out loud and you all know it lol.

I think the thought that Scottie's already stagnated is just doomerism tbh. Guys rarely peak at 23. Scottie's already been an all-star and still has so much room for growth and development.

"Seemingly" stagnated. No objective person can say he was better last season than he was the prior year. And even the tail end of that prior season became rough too. I'm not saying the Bucks are going to scoff at being offered Barnes, just that it isn't absurd at this moment to wonder if they would even be thrilled with that. His stock is at the lowest it has been since he entered the league. I mean, in a season where we wanted losses, a lot of us didn't care if he played because it really wasn't making a significant difference.

Of course he has room to grow and I truly hope in year 5 he takes THE leap.

[Duffman100]

If OKC losea this series, that's where Giannis is going next season. No team (other than SAS) can come up with an offer that competes with theirs.

He'd also be silly not to want to go there. He'd easily win at least 2-3 rings playing with SGA

As much as I'm cheering for the Pacers, this has been in the back of my mind.

OKC loses...oh boy, they'll make a grandfather offer for Giannis that doesn't include Chet. A SGA, Giannis, Chet trio would be terrifying.

[JB7]

Do people here actually believe if Bucks get Barnes/Dick/Ochai/9th Pick + 1 or 2 picks is appealing enough?....I mean look at how bad our Raptors team has been with Barnes/Dick/Ochai + alot more actual NBA players than the Bucks will have with that core....We were a lottery team with that core for many years....Unless you think that 9th pick can get you another star level player besides Barnes but thats a question mark...

The reason that package would be enticing to the Bucks would be the pick package to go along with the young guys because most likely with a core of Barnes/Dick/Ochai/9th pick team they are likely to be a Lotto team for a while with no draft picks to show for.....Sounds like a tough sell if im running the Bucks...

We would prolly have to give up more draft picks if we want to beat out teams if teams start throwing out their best players in packages along with 2-3 elite level players....We can all sit here and say "Bucks won't want them players and would want to go young" Well that would make sense if they could tank the following years to keep building on the young guys they aquire...But without draft picks going young is pretty pointless....

Our pick package along with our young players is the reason we are even enticing to trade with not one or the other.

Any deal for Giannis, I would imagine the Bucks want to start with a star young player, and build out from there, and I would also think they would lean into more players than picks, because of the current situation they are in. Not controlling their own picks is huge. No team wants to go into the complete tank when other teams hold control of all their picks. So while Barnes/Dick/Ochai/9th Pick might at best get them to play-in potential in the East (because the East is so putrid), it probably keeps them from bottoming out completely. A package focused on picks, puts the Bucks at the bottom of the league.

That's why I think a trade for Giannis probably starts with Barnes, Franz, Mobley, Amen (maybe Sengun), etc. And then builds from there. And as great as Mobley has looked, I probably would rather start with Barnes, Amen or Franz, players that are better suited to carrying a team, because they can handle the ball.

[JB7]

I think it only really works if Giannis says he'll here and only here.

Yep i think even if we are on the list of teams Giannis asks to go too we have a chance....But i do actually believe it will cost more than what alot of posters here think it will cost.....Because other teams may start offering up their best player and a few teams in the East have better players than Barnes if Bucks decide to go for the best player package route....With Barnes i think the draft pick package would be the only thing the Bucks would be interested in....I don't think Bucks think high on Dick/Ochai....I think Barnes/9th and future picks are what Bucks will have most interest in...

We also don’t know that the Bucks would covet Barnes. They may not be thrilled about a guy who has seemingly stagnated and has yet to start his $225 million, guaranteed contract. I mean, let's not pretend his last 80-100 games haven't happened. I think the majority of us aren't moving Barnes for Giannis JUST because the latter is a top 3 player. There are a good portion of us who are now willing to move him because the evidence is mounting that he likely isn't going to be what we hoped. I mean, I am just saying the quiet part out loud and you all know it lol.

The other side of thought on that, is I would think they would be assuming he still has plenty of upside, and he is locked in for 5 years. So even if he is not happy with the deal, he doesn't have much say at this time, and still has to prove himself - he's not going anywhere soon. Plus, he didn't qualify for the 30% of cap deal like Cade and Mobley, so he is costing less.

[MiamiSPX]

Do people here actually believe if Bucks get Barnes/Dick/Ochai/9th Pick + 1 or 2 picks is appealing enough?....I mean look at how bad our Raptors team has been with Barnes/Dick/Ochai + alot more actual NBA players than the Bucks will have with that core....We were a lottery team with that core for many years....Unless you think that 9th pick can get you another star level player besides Barnes but thats a question mark...

The reason that package would be enticing to the Bucks would be the pick package to go along with the young guys because most likely with a core of Barnes/Dick/Ochai/9th pick team they are likely to be a Lotto team for a while with no draft picks to show for.....Sounds like a tough sell if im running the Bucks...

We would prolly have to give up more draft picks if we want to beat out teams if teams start throwing out their best players in packages along with 2-3 elite level players....We can all sit here and say "Bucks won't want them players and would want to go young" Well that would make sense if they could tank the following years to keep building on the young guys they aquire...But without draft picks going young is pretty pointless....

Our pick package along with our young players is the reason we are even enticing to trade with not one or the other.

Any deal for Giannis, I would imagine the Bucks want to start with a star young player, and build out from there, and I would also think they would lean into more players than picks, because of the current situation they are in. Not controlling their own picks is huge. No team wants to go into the complete tank when other teams hold control of all their picks. So while Barnes/Dick/Ochai/9th Pick might at best get them to play-in potential in the East (because the East is so putrid), it probably keeps them from bottoming out completely. A package focused on picks, puts the Bucks at the bottom of the league.

That's why I think a trade for Giannis probably starts with Barnes, Franz, Mobley, Amen (maybe Sengun), etc. And then builds from there. And as great as Mobley has looked, I probably would rather start with Barnes, Amen or Franz, players that are better suited to carrying a team, because they can handle the ball.

Come on man. If Barnes is going to pan out better than Mobley, then we should be keeping him lol. There isn't a GM alive that would take Barnes over Mobley right now. He is who Masai was reportedly the highest on (correctly) but he knew he wouldn't fall to us, and that we wouldn't be able to trade up to get him.

[Raps in 4]

Do people here actually believe if Bucks get Barnes/Dick/Ochai/9th Pick + 1 or 2 picks is appealing enough?....I mean look at how bad our Raptors team has been with Barnes/Dick/Ochai + alot more actual NBA players than the Bucks will have with that core....We were a lottery team with that core for many years....Unless you think that 9th pick can get you another star level player besides Barnes but thats a question mark...

The reason that package would be enticing to the Bucks would be the pick package to go along with the young guys because most likely with a core of Barnes/Dick/Ochai/9th pick team they are likely to be a Lotto team for a while with no draft picks to show for.....Sounds like a tough sell if im running the Bucks...

We would prolly have to give up more draft picks if we want to beat out teams if teams start throwing out their best players in packages along with 2-3 elite level players....We can all sit here and say "Bucks won't want them players and would want to go young" Well that would make sense if they could tank the following years to keep building on the young guys they aquire...But without draft picks going young is pretty pointless....

Our pick package along with our young players is the reason we are even enticing to trade with not one or the other.

Any deal for Giannis, I would imagine the Bucks want to start with a star young player, and build out from there, and I would also think they would lean into more players than picks, because of the current situation they are in. Not controlling their own picks is huge. No team wants to go into the complete tank when other teams hold control of all their picks. So while Barnes/Dick/Ochai/9th Pick might at best get them to play-in potential in the East (because the East is so putrid), it probably keeps them from bottoming out completely. A package focused on picks, puts the Bucks at the bottom of the league.

That's why I think a trade for Giannis probably starts with Barnes, Franz, Mobley, Amen (maybe Sengun), etc. And then builds from there. And as great as Mobley has looked, I probably would rather start with Barnes, Amen or Franz, players that are better suited to carrying a team, because they can handle the ball.

Come on man. If Barnes is going to pan out better than Mobley, then we should be keeping him lol. There isn't a GM alive that would take Barnes over Mobley right now. He is who Masai was reportedly the highest on (correctly) but he knew he wouldn't fall to us, and that we wouldn't be able to trade up to get him.

Mobley is amazing, but I also feel he's getting overrated. He's the third scoring option on his team. He'd look a lot worse in Scottie's role. He's basically Miami Chris Bosh on offence. I don't see him ever having two-way superstar impact. I don't see that for Scottie either, of course.

[JB7]

Do people here actually believe if Bucks get Barnes/Dick/Ochai/9th Pick + 1 or 2 picks is appealing enough?....I mean look at how bad our Raptors team has been with Barnes/Dick/Ochai + alot more actual NBA players than the Bucks will have with that core....We were a lottery team with that core for many years....Unless you think that 9th pick can get you another star level player besides Barnes but thats a question mark...

The reason that package would be enticing to the Bucks would be the pick package to go along with the young guys because most likely with a core of Barnes/Dick/Ochai/9th pick team they are likely to be a Lotto team for a while with no draft picks to show for.....Sounds like a tough sell if im running the Bucks...

We would prolly have to give up more draft picks if we want to beat out teams if teams start throwing out their best players in packages along with 2-3 elite level players....We can all sit here and say "Bucks won't want them players and would want to go young" Well that would make sense if they could tank the following years to keep building on the young guys they aquire...But without draft picks going young is pretty pointless....

Our pick package along with our young players is the reason we are even enticing to trade with not one or the other.

Any deal for Giannis, I would imagine the Bucks want to start with a star young player, and build out from there, and I would also think they would lean into more players than picks, because of the current situation they are in. Not controlling their own picks is huge. No team wants to go into the complete tank when other teams hold control of all their picks. So while Barnes/Dick/Ochai/9th Pick might at best get them to play-in potential in the East (because the East is so putrid), it probably keeps them from bottoming out completely. A package focused on picks, puts the Bucks at the bottom of the league.

That's why I think a trade for Giannis probably starts with Barnes, Franz, Mobley, Amen (maybe Sengun), etc. And then builds from there. And as great as Mobley has looked, I probably would rather start with Barnes, Amen or Franz, players that are better suited to carrying a team, because they can handle the ball.

Come on man. If Barnes is going to pan out better than Mobley, then we should be keeping him lol. There isn't a GM alive that would take Barnes over Mobley right now. He is who Masai was reportedly the highest on (correctly) but he knew he wouldn't fall to us, and that we wouldn't be able to trade up to get him.

I'm not saying that Mobley isn't great, or that paired with someone like Mitchell, he can't be more lethal.

Problem for the Bucks is Mobley as the guy you are going to build around is a hard starting point, especially if they don't control their own picks to acquire other young players.

Mobley relies on backcourt players to get him the ball, and he is not dominant enough (physically), where you could even look past that. Mobley has looked great, around other great players. How would he look by himself, without the support. Same can be said of Chet.

[Raptors Realtor]

Are you saying IQ hasn't played 40 games in 3 years?

HUH?
He played 68 games the season he got traded split between NY and Toronto and would have played more if we weren't tanking.

Before that he played 81 games and 74 games in the 2 seasons prior.

Playing 33 games this past season was a combination of bad luck with his elbow injury in game 1 of the season and the blatant tanking effort just sitting him out.

I expect IQ to play 60-80 games next season.

He hasn’t played over 40 games in each of his last 3 seasons is what I meant. I don’t care what he did 4 seasons ago.. tank or not.

He is a 38% 3pt shooter which is good, but can’t take his man off the dribble, and he is not a great POA defender. Couple that with his availability, is that what you want from a starting PG on a championship calibre team? Would he want to be a 6th man again? I doubt it.

He played 81 games in 2022-23 , 68 games in 2023-24, and 38 games in 2024-25.

You're looking at the time he split in NYK/TOR in 2023/24 as two different seasons.

Yep, this is where bro should have double checked instead of doubling down.

[MiamiSPX]

Any deal for Giannis, I would imagine the Bucks want to start with a star young player, and build out from there, and I would also think they would lean into more players than picks, because of the current situation they are in. Not controlling their own picks is huge. No team wants to go into the complete tank when other teams hold control of all their picks. So while Barnes/Dick/Ochai/9th Pick might at best get them to play-in potential in the East (because the East is so putrid), it probably keeps them from bottoming out completely. A package focused on picks, puts the Bucks at the bottom of the league.

That's why I think a trade for Giannis probably starts with Barnes, Franz, Mobley, Amen (maybe Sengun), etc. And then builds from there. And as great as Mobley has looked, I probably would rather start with Barnes, Amen or Franz, players that are better suited to carrying a team, because they can handle the ball.

Come on man. If Barnes is going to pan out better than Mobley, then we should be keeping him lol. There isn't a GM alive that would take Barnes over Mobley right now. He is who Masai was reportedly the highest on (correctly) but he knew he wouldn't fall to us, and that we wouldn't be able to trade up to get him.

Mobley is amazing, but I also feel he's getting overrated. He's the third scoring option on his team. He'd look a lot worse in Scottie's role. He's basically Miami Chris Bosh on offence. I don't see him ever have two-way superstar impact.

I won't deny that he is in the perfect situation but that is A LOT of people overrating him then. DPOY, All-NBA, 2x All-Defensive. All-Star.

[Raps in 4]

Come on man. If Barnes is going to pan out better than Mobley, then we should be keeping him lol. There isn't a GM alive that would take Barnes over Mobley right now. He is who Masai was reportedly the highest on (correctly) but he knew he wouldn't fall to us, and that we wouldn't be able to trade up to get him.

Mobley is amazing, but I also feel he's getting overrated. He's the third scoring option on his team. He'd look a lot worse in Scottie's role. He's basically Miami Chris Bosh on offence. I don't see him ever have two-way superstar impact.

I won't deny that he is in the perfect situation but that is A LOT of people overrating him then. DPOY, All-NBA, 2x All-Defensive. All-Star.

He's an elite defender and an All-Star. He just wouldn't be someone who would turn this team's fortunes around. We'd still be out here looking for that superstar to lead our offence. I'd rather have Mobley than Scottie, obviously. So would Masai. But we wouldn't be in a drastically different position right now if you swapped the two.