2025 NBA Draft (2)

[sodmoraes]

With VJ to me it all comes down to how much he can improve his dribbling. Everything else is there, he has plays where you just see glimpses of it. From all accounts he seems like a one who will continue to work. All these prospects being discussed have glaring flaws though all have the potential to be more than a role player. The tough part is just projecting which one is most likely to reach that.

My problem with drafting VJ is that what he needs to improve to be a really good player is harder, in my opinion, than what Bailey needs to improve to become really good too. That iso part of scoring its probably the hardest thing to improve, and without it his ceiling is limited to a really good roleplayer, which is not what we need with Embiid's situation.

Im not saying that will be easy to Ace improve his flaws but hes almost 12 months younger than Edge, so theres that too. Im pro Tre too, but still think that Ace's ceiling is higher. Im a "ceiling" kinda of guy lol.

Sent from my SM-G780G using RealGM mobile app

[youngcrev]

Grabbing a guy at #3 overall to be like Cason Wallace, Alex Caruso, De'Anthony Melton, Jalen Suggs and some of the other comps I've seen for VJ would be a total disaster.

Those guys are role players. We need a star with this pick.

Stop taking comps so literally. "Reminds me somewhat of..." doesn't mean "this is who he will be."

I think his immediate role on a team trying to win is that if a role player. On flip side, I'm not sure a lot of these guys would have a role on a team trying to win.

[FireMorey]

VJ isn't 1/100th the ball handler Mitchell was when he came out. Ball handling is typically harder for players to improve than shooting. It's hard to be a top level scorer in the NBA if you aren't either elite at ball handling or shooting. Being just "solid" at both doesn't mean you can't be a good well rounded player, but usually it caps your offensive ceiling.

And it's not just ball handling VJ lacks it's shots off of that ball handling. He has no go to scoring move he's pretty much just a catch and shoot guy at this point offensively.

Even a guy like Wiggins when he was coming out who was criticized for his ball handling(which he never really got better at) he at least had a little bit of a pull up and step back jumper when he was coming out. VJ has nothing like that. Ridiculously raw.

[Arsenal]

Grabbing a guy at #3 overall to be like Cason Wallace, Alex Caruso, De'Anthony Melton, Jalen Suggs and some of the other comps I've seen for VJ would be a total disaster.

Those guys are role players. We need a star with this pick.

Stop taking comps so literally. "Reminds me somewhat of..." doesn't mean "this is who he will be."

I think his immediate role on a team trying to win is that if a role player. On flip side, I'm not sure a lot of these guys would have a role on a team trying to win.

Stop advocating using the #3 overall pick on a role player. I don’t see anyone who thinks VJ can be the lead guard on a contender, which means even if he hits his upside it won’t move the needle enough to matter.

Non-lead guards aren’t worth that much even if they’re really good at their role.

[youngcrev]

Grabbing a guy at #3 overall to be like Cason Wallace, Alex Caruso, De'Anthony Melton, Jalen Suggs and some of the other comps I've seen for VJ would be a total disaster.

Those guys are role players. We need a star with this pick.

Stop taking comps so literally. "Reminds me somewhat of..." doesn't mean "this is who he will be."

I think his immediate role on a team trying to win is that if a role player. On flip side, I'm not sure a lot of these guys would have a role on a team trying to win.

Stop advocating using the #3 overall pick on a role player. I don’t see anyone who thinks VJ can be the lead guard on a contender, which means even if he hits his upside it won’t move the needle enough to matter.

Non-lead guards aren’t worth that much even if they’re really good at their role.

I don't think anyone expects any of these guys to be best player on a contender type of player.

They should take the guy that they think is the best player available.

If they think one of them has a legitimate shot at being a star, sure, take that guy.

Taking a bust would be a huge set back though. And if the idea is that this team needs a star above all us... Having a really good young player, even if they don't seem like they could be a star, goes a long way in acquiring one.

[Arsenal]

No. Missing on a star is a MUCH bigger setback than taking a bust. Upside is far more important than downside.

[youngcrev]

No. Missing on a star is a MUCH bigger setback than taking a bust. Upside is far more important than downside.

What if they miss on a star while drafting a bust.

What if their comp for VJ is DWade? Or a taller Donovan Mitchell?

Not sure that's any crazier than Ace to KD or Tre to DBook.

Again, they should take the guy that they think is going to end up being the best player. VJ and Ace have been put on the next tier down after Harper pretty much everywhere, with Tre sneaking in there more recently.

[ProcessDoctor]

No. Missing on a star is a MUCH bigger setback than taking a bust. Upside is far more important than downside.

What if they miss on a star while drafting a bust.

What if their comp for VJ is DWade? Or a taller Donovan Mitchell?

Not sure that's any crazier than Ace to KD or Tre to DBook.

Again, they should take the guy that they think is going to end up being the best player. VJ and Ace have been put on the next tier down after Harper pretty much everywhere, with Tre sneaking in there more recently.

VJ's offensive game is becoming criminally underrated. All of his shooting metrics project better than Ace's, unless you're counting contested long 2s. He likely won't be a 30ppg scorer, but there's a decent chance he becomes a 20/5/5 player scoring at all 3 levels while providing top-notch defense.

I love his fit with Maxey and McCain. The real question is how to get our 1A franchise player to go along with these 3. Maybe that will come a few years down the road. It's too bad Zion has so much baggage, otherwise, he'd be an obvious target in exchange for Embiid. I'd maybe still do that trade straight up.

[Iverson Armband]

No. Missing on a star is a MUCH bigger setback than taking a bust. Upside is far more important than downside.

What if they miss on a star while drafting a bust.

What if their comp for VJ is DWade? Or a taller Donovan Mitchell?

Not sure that's any crazier than Ace to KD or Tre to DBook.

Again, they should take the guy that they think is going to end up being the best player. VJ and Ace have been put on the next tier down after Harper pretty much everywhere, with Tre sneaking in there more recently.

Ace will never EVER become KD, so we can get that out of the way now lol. But he absolutely shows signs of becoming a Tatum level player with his physical profile and shot making ability. Tre Johnson, had a historic freshman season, scored 20ppg in the SEC as a freshman surrounded by bums. That is nothing to sneeze at. Hell, he might be a better shooter than Booker right NOW.

VJ shows absolutely no signs of becoming the next DWade or Mitchell other than being athletic. There is a lot more projection and wishing for skills that aren’t even close to being there with him.

[ProcessDoctor]

What do we make of Cedric Coward? He'll be 22 years old when the season starts, but my god there are a lot of star traits.

7'2" wingspan, .700% TS, .492 3PAr, .508 FTr, 83.9 FT%, and lots of STOCKs. Granted, small sample size (6 games), but his junior year (32 games) wasn't too shabby either.

Is playing in a weak conference his whole college career the big knock?

[zaz102]

Is it fair to say that Tre Johnson has the best shooting, self creation, ballhandling, and playmaking of Ace, VJ, and Tre?

[Iverson Armband]

Is it fair to say that Tre Johnson has the best shooting, self creation, ballhandling, and playmaking of Ace, VJ, and Tre?

Yes.

[okboomer]

No. Missing on a star is a MUCH bigger setback than taking a bust. Upside is far more important than downside.

What if they miss on a star while drafting a bust.

What if their comp for VJ is DWade? Or a taller Donovan Mitchell?

Not sure that's any crazier than Ace to KD or Tre to DBook.

Again, they should take the guy that they think is going to end up being the best player. VJ and Ace have been put on the next tier down after Harper pretty much everywhere, with Tre sneaking in there more recently.

Ace will never EVER become KD, so we can get that out of the way now lol. But he absolutely shows signs of becoming a Tatum level player with his physical profile and shot making ability. Tre Johnson, had a historic freshman season, scored 20ppg in the SEC as a freshman surrounded by bums. That is nothing to sneeze at. Hell, he might be a better shooter than Booker right NOW.

VJ shows absolutely no signs of becoming the next DWade or Mitchell other than being athletic. There is a lot more projection and wishing for skills that aren’t even close to being there with him.

You are severely underrating Tatum here. To me there is a better chance VJ is akin to Mitchell's level than Ace is to Tatum. I dont think either will get there though.

[youngcrev]

No. Missing on a star is a MUCH bigger setback than taking a bust. Upside is far more important than downside.

What if they miss on a star while drafting a bust.

What if their comp for VJ is DWade? Or a taller Donovan Mitchell?

Not sure that's any crazier than Ace to KD or Tre to DBook.

Again, they should take the guy that they think is going to end up being the best player. VJ and Ace have been put on the next tier down after Harper pretty much everywhere, with Tre sneaking in there more recently.

Ace will never EVER become KD, so we can get that out of the way now lol. But he absolutely shows signs of becoming a Tatum level player with his physical profile and shot making ability. Tre Johnson, had a historic freshman season, scored 20ppg in the SEC as a freshman surrounded by bums. That is nothing to sneeze at. Hell, he might be a better shooter than Booker right NOW.

VJ shows absolutely no signs of becoming the next DWade or Mitchell other than being athletic. There is a lot more projection and wishing for skills that aren’t even close to being there with him.

This just circles back to player comps driving me crazy. Mitchell was getting compared to Norm Powell coming out (and this is early role player version of Norm Powell not the one we got this season). Ridiculous outlier improvement is required of any of these guys to reach stardom. That isn't controlled by who you think they have a similar profile to.

From everything I've read/heard, VJ is the guy with outlier work ethic among these guys. He's made large strides over the last couple years. He's an elite athlete and big time competitor. I think he's a reasonably good bet to end up the best player among these guys.

[zaz102]

Is it fair to say that Tre Johnson has the best shooting, self creation, ballhandling, and playmaking of Ace, VJ, and Tre?

Yes.

hmm, combine this fact with thr fact he has a 6'10"+ wingspan, maybe Tre Johnson is the "don't overthink it" prospect.

[okboomer]

Is it fair to say that Tre Johnson has the best shooting, self creation, ballhandling, and playmaking of Ace, VJ, and Tre?

Yes.

hmm, combine this fact with thr fact he has a 6'10"+ wingspan, maybe Tre Johnson is the "don't overthink it" prospect.

He seems to have interviewed well, and he was in a terrible situation at UT. If they can guarantee he wont be a burnt orange traffic cone on defense the rest of his career and just be a neutral defender think you can make a decent argument for him going second.

[Arsenal]

No. Missing on a star is a MUCH bigger setback than taking a bust. Upside is far more important than downside.

What if they miss on a star while drafting a bust.

What if their comp for VJ is DWade? Or a taller Donovan Mitchell?

Not sure that's any crazier than Ace to KD or Tre to DBook.

Again, they should take the guy that they think is going to end up being the best player. VJ and Ace have been put on the next tier down after Harper pretty much everywhere, with Tre sneaking in there more recently.

Wade and Mitchell have outlier length, while VJ’s wingspan is subpar. They were also more skilled.

Not good comps.

[Arsenal]

What if they miss on a star while drafting a bust.

What if their comp for VJ is DWade? Or a taller Donovan Mitchell?

Not sure that's any crazier than Ace to KD or Tre to DBook.

Again, they should take the guy that they think is going to end up being the best player. VJ and Ace have been put on the next tier down after Harper pretty much everywhere, with Tre sneaking in there more recently.

Ace will never EVER become KD, so we can get that out of the way now lol. But he absolutely shows signs of becoming a Tatum level player with his physical profile and shot making ability. Tre Johnson, had a historic freshman season, scored 20ppg in the SEC as a freshman surrounded by bums. That is nothing to sneeze at. Hell, he might be a better shooter than Booker right NOW.

VJ shows absolutely no signs of becoming the next DWade or Mitchell other than being athletic. There is a lot more projection and wishing for skills that aren’t even close to being there with him.

This just circles back to player comps driving me crazy. Mitchell was getting compared to Norm Powell coming out (and this is early role player version of Norm Powell not the one we got this season). Ridiculous outlier improvement is required of any of these guys to reach stardom. That isn't controlled by who you think they have a similar profile to.

From everything I've read/heard, VJ is the guy with outlier work ethic among these guys. He's made large strides over the last couple years. He's an elite athlete and big time competitor. I think he's a reasonably good bet to end up the best player among these guys.

Work ethic based on what? He’s a year older than Ace with a worse offensive game.

Why hasn’t he developed any offensive skills yet if he’s such a hard worker?

[youngcrev]

Ace will never EVER become KD, so we can get that out of the way now lol. But he absolutely shows signs of becoming a Tatum level player with his physical profile and shot making ability. Tre Johnson, had a historic freshman season, scored 20ppg in the SEC as a freshman surrounded by bums. That is nothing to sneeze at. Hell, he might be a better shooter than Booker right NOW.

VJ shows absolutely no signs of becoming the next DWade or Mitchell other than being athletic. There is a lot more projection and wishing for skills that aren’t even close to being there with him.

This just circles back to player comps driving me crazy. Mitchell was getting compared to Norm Powell coming out (and this is early role player version of Norm Powell not the one we got this season). Ridiculous outlier improvement is required of any of these guys to reach stardom. That isn't controlled by who you think they have a similar profile to.

From everything I've read/heard, VJ is the guy with outlier work ethic among these guys. He's made large strides over the last couple years. He's an elite athlete and big time competitor. I think he's a reasonably good bet to end up the best player among these guys.

Work ethic based on what? He’s a year older than Ace with a worse offensive game.

Why hasn’t he developed any offensive skills yet if he’s such a hard worker?

Work ethic based on... Everything reported about the kid? Or maybe the dramatic improvement as a guy that wasn't talked about until his junior year? Certainly on a far greater improvement track than Ace over that same time period.

Also... Does he have a worse offensive game right now? Worse scoring package, sure. Seems like he's got a better feel for where to be and how to play currently.

[Black Mage]

No. Missing on a star is a MUCH bigger setback than taking a bust. Upside is far more important than downside.

What if they miss on a star while drafting a bust.

What if their comp for VJ is DWade? Or a taller Donovan Mitchell?

Not sure that's any crazier than Ace to KD or Tre to DBook.

Again, they should take the guy that they think is going to end up being the best player. VJ and Ace have been put on the next tier down after Harper pretty much everywhere, with Tre sneaking in there more recently.

VJ's offensive game is becoming criminally underrated. All of his shooting metrics project better than Ace's, unless you're counting contested long 2s. He likely won't be a 30ppg scorer, but there's a decent chance he becomes a 20/5/5 player scoring at all 3 levels while providing top-notch defense.

I love his fit with Maxey and McCain. The real question is how to get our 1A franchise player to go along with these 3. Maybe that will come a few years down the road. It's too bad Zion has so much baggage, otherwise, he'd be an obvious target in exchange for Embiid. I'd maybe still do that trade straight up.

Come on man; I think VJ has value in a C&S role; but he's not even close to Bailey or Tre in terms of shooting mechanics. VJ right now needs a set base and a windup window to get his shot off. When he catches the ball his motion is to bring it back down around his hips before going up with it. That has historically been a bad habit to have in the NBA where shooting windows are much smaller b/c of the added time to catch, drop, bring up. Tre or Ace can literally catch and that ball is up over their head in a half second.