Official 2024-2025 Magic Trade ideas thread continued

[VFX]

You are all crazy for being ok trading Suggs for Bane.

Bane is 27. Is a SG/SF for 4/$37m
Suggs is 24. Is a SG/PG for 5/$35m

Don’t like that Suggs is injury prone? Bane is just about as bad and he’s older. Hes averaged only 5-8 more games a year since he’s been a pro.

If you are trading Suggs you should be hoping to get a substantial difference maker in return that changes how Orlando operates. You are just moving him for the sake of moving him if you are talking about guys like Bane or Murphy.

You can make arguments about guys like Herro, Maxey, or Reaves. Thats about it. And no, a third max level guy isn’t an option under the new CBA so you can basically cross off Garland, Ball, and Young.

[89Magicfan]

Sam Vecenie:

“There is a lot of synergy for ORL and LAL to line up on a deal this summer”

Lakers looking for depth, defense, center and vets.

Orlando is looking for a young guard not making max money.

Win-win.

I would absolutely love Austin Reaves. He's really good.

Crafting a deal would be interesting.

Would the Lakers want Carter or Bitadze? Would they be willing to go for a Round 2 with KCP?

I think I would rather give up both firsts than give up Black...

A lot of possibilities.

except Reaves is only cheap for 1 more year. Then he will want a lot more money, which sounds like $30mil+/yr

Deal with that when we cross that bridge.

[Idiosyncratic]

If Reaves were acquired and extended for 30 million plus the full MLE was used. I'm sure next year we would be fine, so let's look to 26/27.

26/27 salary in millions

Reaves- 30
Suggs-32.4
Franz- 41.7
Paolo- 43 (Is this right?)
Wendell- 18
MLE- 15
Isaac- 14.5
Mo-8
TDS- 4
16- 4.6
Suns Pick- 5

~216 million for 11 players

If aprons go up 10% again (is this guaranteed?) then 1st would be at 215.49 and 2nd would be at 228.58 million. So ~12 million under the 2nd apron with 4 slots to fill? Seems doable. If Reaves takes much more than 30 it would be murky, ditto Paolo making All-NBA next year I guess.

Not easy, I guess getting Reaves is kind of an all-in move.

And anyone can correct me if any of this is way off. Cap is not anything near my specialty.

[Knightro]

You are all crazy for being ok trading Suggs for Bane.

Bane is 27. Is a SG/SF for 4/$37m
Suggs is 24. Is a SG/PG for 5/$35m

Don’t like that Suggs is injury prone? Bane is just about as bad and he’s older. Hes averaged only 5-8 more games a year since he’s been a pro.

If you are trading Suggs you should be hoping to get a substantial difference maker in return that changes how Orlando operates. You are just moving him for the sake of moving him if you are talking about guys like Bane or Murphy.

Two things...

1. 27 v. 24 isn't a significant difference in age to me. Trading 24-year-old Suggs for 31-year-old Derrick White *is* a significant difference that tangibly changes the team's timeline by adding 7 years to a core player, but 3 years isn't much.

2. Bane is a considerably better basketball player and just about every traditional and advanced metric would agree that it's not particularly close. Here's a small sampling...

TS%
Bane career: .597, Bane most recent season: .600
Suggs career: .535, Suggs most recent season: .536

AST%
Bane best season: 29.2%, Bane most recent season: 23.6%
Suggs best season: 24.9%, Suggs most recent season: 21.6%

TOV%
Bane career: 11.0%, Bane most recent season: 13.3%
Suggs career: 16.2%, Suggs most recent season: 16.2%

EPM
Bane best season: +3.5, Bane most recent season: +2.3
Suggs best season: +2.0, Suggs most recent season: +1.4

BPM
Bane best season: +3.5, Bane most recent season +3.2
Suggs best season: +1.0, Suggs most recent season +0.4

Net Points
Bane best season: +1.5, Bane most recent season +0.7
Suggs best season: -0.5, Suggs most recent season -0.5

Bane is a better shooter. Better scorer. Better playmaker. Better passer. Better rebounder. Better finisher. Less turnover prone.

Suggs is absolutely a better defender, but Bane has graded out as a positive defender in 3 of the last 4 seasons, including this most recent season. So that gap isn't nearly as wide as the gap between Suggs and Bane offensively.

Your arguments about Bane's injury history are valid. But he's still averaged 61 games per season since Suggs has been in the league compared to 53 for Suggs.

The only thing IMO not in Bane's favor would be that his contract goes up, while Suggs' goes down, but Bane is very clearly a much better player.

[Knightro]

If Reaves were acquired and extended for 30 million plus the full MLE was used. I'm sure next year we would be fine, so let's look to 26/27.

26/27 salary in millions

Reaves- 30
Suggs-32.4
Franz- 41.7
Paolo- 43 (Is this right?)
Wendell- 18
MLE- 15
Isaac- 14.5
Mo-8
TDS- 4
16- 4.6
Suns Pick- 5

~216 million for 11 players

If aprons go up 10% again (is this guaranteed?) then 1st would be at 215.49 and 2nd would be at 228.58 million. So ~12 million under the 2nd apron with 4 slots to fill? Seems doable. If Reaves takes much more than 30 it would be murky, ditto Paolo making All-NBA next year I guess.

Not easy, I guess getting Reaves is kind of an all-in move.

And anyone can correct me if any of this is way off. Cap is not anything near my specialty.

You're pretty much spot on.

Spotrac is projecting the 1st apron to be $215.5M and the 2nd apron to be $228.6M for 2026-2027.

The bottom part of the roster would likely need to be filled with 2nd rounders from both 2025 and 2026.

[Knightro]

Reaves/Hachimura for KCP/Goga/Black/25 would also lower the Magic's salary commitments (assuming they decline Moritz, Gary, CoJo) by $5.7M for next season, taking them down from $177.3M to $171.6M.

Sign NAW for the MLE $14.1 and you're back up to $185.7M. That is $2.2M *below* the $187.9M luxury tax.

Basically if you could find someone (Brooklyn) who would take Cole and/or Jett for multiple 2nd rounders, you could get way under the tax even with resigning Moe and a vet minimum and some second round picks and you wouldn't start the repeater clock until 26-27 which could be potentially very valuable.

[tiderulz]

I would absolutely love Austin Reaves. He's really good.

Crafting a deal would be interesting.

Would the Lakers want Carter or Bitadze? Would they be willing to go for a Round 2 with KCP?

I think I would rather give up both firsts than give up Black...

A lot of possibilities.

except Reaves is only cheap for 1 more year. Then he will want a lot more money, which sounds like $30mil+/yr

Deal with that when we cross that bridge.

for a guard that doesnt defend.

[tiderulz]

You are all crazy for being ok trading Suggs for Bane.

Bane is 27. Is a SG/SF for 4/$37m
Suggs is 24. Is a SG/PG for 5/$35m

Don’t like that Suggs is injury prone? Bane is just about as bad and he’s older. Hes averaged only 5-8 more games a year since he’s been a pro.

If you are trading Suggs you should be hoping to get a substantial difference maker in return that changes how Orlando operates. You are just moving him for the sake of moving him if you are talking about guys like Bane or Murphy.

You can make arguments about guys like Herro, Maxey, or Reaves. Thats about it. And no, a third max level guy isn’t an option under the new CBA so you can basically cross off Garland, Ball, and Young.

Bane not the defender Suggs is, but he is still a good defender and much better on offense. argument for Herro? Bane is a better 3 pt shooter and Herro doesnt defend

[89Magicfan]

except Reaves is only cheap for 1 more year. Then he will want a lot more money, which sounds like $30mil+/yr

Deal with that when we cross that bridge.

for a guard that doesnt defend.

We need offense. Where have you been?

[Knightro]

except Reaves is only cheap for 1 more year. Then he will want a lot more money, which sounds like $30mil+/yr

Deal with that when we cross that bridge.

for a guard that doesnt defend.

The number of NBA guards who can score efficiently, create good shots for teammates *and* defend at a reasonably high level is like five guys total in the entire league?

[tiderulz]

Deal with that when we cross that bridge.

for a guard that doesnt defend.

We need offense. Where have you been?

so maybe try and find one that does a little of both for what he will cost after next year

[89Magicfan]

for a guard that doesnt defend.

We need offense. Where have you been?

so maybe try and find one that does a little of both for what he will cost after next year

That’s very difficult to find. Offensive players usually are t great defenders.

[VFX]

You are all crazy for being ok trading Suggs for Bane.

Bane is 27. Is a SG/SF for 4/$37m
Suggs is 24. Is a SG/PG for 5/$35m

Don’t like that Suggs is injury prone? Bane is just about as bad and he’s older. Hes averaged only 5-8 more games a year since he’s been a pro.

If you are trading Suggs you should be hoping to get a substantial difference maker in return that changes how Orlando operates. You are just moving him for the sake of moving him if you are talking about guys like Bane or Murphy.

Two things...

1. 27 v. 24 isn't a significant difference in age to me. Trading 24-year-old Suggs for 31-year-old Derrick White *is* a significant difference that tangibly changes the team's timeline by adding 7 years to a core player, but 3 years isn't much.

2. Bane is a considerably better basketball player and just about every traditional and advanced metric would agree that it's not particularly close. Here's a small sampling...

TS%
Bane career: .597, Bane most recent season: .600
Suggs career: .535, Suggs most recent season: .536

AST%
Bane best season: 29.2%, Bane most recent season: 23.6%
Suggs best season: 24.9%, Suggs most recent season: 21.6%

TOV%
Bane career: 11.0%, Bane most recent season: 13.3%
Suggs career: 16.2%, Suggs most recent season: 16.2%

EPM
Bane best season: +3.5, Bane most recent season: +2.3
Suggs best season: +2.0, Suggs most recent season: +1.4

BPM
Bane best season: +3.5, Bane most recent season +3.2
Suggs best season: +1.0, Suggs most recent season +0.4

Net Points
Bane best season: +1.5, Bane most recent season +0.7
Suggs best season: -0.5, Suggs most recent season -0.5

Bane is a better shooter. Better scorer. Better playmaker. Better passer. Better rebounder. Better finisher. Less turnover prone.

Suggs is absolutely a better defender, but Bane has graded out as a positive defender in 3 of the last 4 seasons, including this most recent season. So that gap isn't nearly as wide as the gap between Suggs and Bane offensively.

Your arguments about Bane's injury history are valid. But he's still averaged 61 games per season since Suggs has been in the league compared to 53 for Suggs.

The only thing IMO not in Bane's favor would be that his contract goes up, while Suggs' goes down, but Bane is very clearly a much better player.

Yeah none of that is “considerable” unless you don’t believe Suggs will improve whatsoever. 3 years is a long time in basketball terms for ceiling/upside closer to prime.

It’s a marginal upgrade offensively and marginal downgrade defensively for an increase in salary over 4 years.

My point is that if you are going to actually trade Suggs it shouldn’t be for a marginal upgrade with an extremely similar skill set. It should be for someone that is exponentially better offensively and changes the offense wholesale.

Like if you are gonna piss off a lot of fans and mess with team chemistry you might as well make a significant change.

[Nyce_1]

Vecenie also said Lakers were super high on TDS but when Knecht fell, they had to take him. I think they regret that decision.

IMO, if we trade for Reaves, I'd think TDS is in the package.

Reaves + expiring + Shake

for

KCP, Goga, Tristan

[Knightro]

You are all crazy for being ok trading Suggs for Bane.

Bane is 27. Is a SG/SF for 4/$37m
Suggs is 24. Is a SG/PG for 5/$35m

Don’t like that Suggs is injury prone? Bane is just about as bad and he’s older. Hes averaged only 5-8 more games a year since he’s been a pro.

If you are trading Suggs you should be hoping to get a substantial difference maker in return that changes how Orlando operates. You are just moving him for the sake of moving him if you are talking about guys like Bane or Murphy.

Two things...

1. 27 v. 24 isn't a significant difference in age to me. Trading 24-year-old Suggs for 31-year-old Derrick White *is* a significant difference that tangibly changes the team's timeline by adding 7 years to a core player, but 3 years isn't much.

2. Bane is a considerably better basketball player and just about every traditional and advanced metric would agree that it's not particularly close. Here's a small sampling...

TS%
Bane career: .597, Bane most recent season: .600
Suggs career: .535, Suggs most recent season: .536

AST%
Bane best season: 29.2%, Bane most recent season: 23.6%
Suggs best season: 24.9%, Suggs most recent season: 21.6%

TOV%
Bane career: 11.0%, Bane most recent season: 13.3%
Suggs career: 16.2%, Suggs most recent season: 16.2%

EPM
Bane best season: +3.5, Bane most recent season: +2.3
Suggs best season: +2.0, Suggs most recent season: +1.4

BPM
Bane best season: +3.5, Bane most recent season +3.2
Suggs best season: +1.0, Suggs most recent season +0.4

Net Points
Bane best season: +1.5, Bane most recent season +0.7
Suggs best season: -0.5, Suggs most recent season -0.5

Bane is a better shooter. Better scorer. Better playmaker. Better passer. Better rebounder. Better finisher. Less turnover prone.

Suggs is absolutely a better defender, but Bane has graded out as a positive defender in 3 of the last 4 seasons, including this most recent season. So that gap isn't nearly as wide as the gap between Suggs and Bane offensively.

Your arguments about Bane's injury history are valid. But he's still averaged 61 games per season since Suggs has been in the league compared to 53 for Suggs.

The only thing IMO not in Bane's favor would be that his contract goes up, while Suggs' goes down, but Bane is very clearly a much better player.

Yeah none of that is “considerable” unless you don’t believe Suggs will improve whatsoever. 3 years is a long time in basketball terms for ceiling/upside closer to prime.

It’s a marginal upgrade offensively and marginal downgrade defensively for an increase in salary over 4 years.

My point is that if you are going to actually trade Suggs it shouldn’t be for a marginal upgrade with an extremely similar skill set. It should be for someone that is exponentially better offensively and changes the offense wholesale.

Like if you are gonna piss off a lot of fans and mess with team chemistry you might as well make a significant change.

If you read the stats I laid out and the best you could come up with is that Bane is marginally better, specifically on the offensive end, then I don’t know what else to say about it.

A .600 TS% v. A .535 TS% is pretty far beyond marginal.

Now if you’re suggesting that over the next three years that Suggs will improve to the point or Bane will decline to the point where the difference *at that time* will be marginal, that’s fine.

But that’s also putting an amount of faith in Suggs’ growth that frankly feels beyond optimistic to the point of just unrealistic.

Bane averaged 19 PPG on a .600 TS% this past year and has averaged 20 PPG on a .600 TS% over the last four years in a row at this point.

You’re underestimating how good that is. Only 20 guys in the NBA did that this past year.

You throw in Bane’s 5+ APG this past year and now you’re talking only 13 guys in the league did that, and every one of them minus Bane (and coincidentally Austin Reaves) is an NBA all-star.

You can’t be one of the loudest and most aggressive posters about crapping on the team’s lack of offense - which A. you very clearly are and B. is justified - and then in the same breath with a straight face turn your nose up at Bane because he’s a “marginal” upgrade on Suggs when only about 10-15 guys a year have done what he’s done over the last four seasons offensively.

And outside of one year, these weren’t Bane racking up stats on tanking teams like Jordan Poole where you can chalk the numbers up to not mattering because of the circumstances. The Grizzlies the last four years have won 56, 51, 27 and 48 games.

I get that you like Suggs. I like him too. But come on now.

[Knightro]

Vecenie also said Lakers were super high on TDS but when Knecht fell, they had to take him. I think they regret that decision.

IMO, if we trade for Reaves, I'd think TDS is in the package.

Reaves + expiring + Shake

for

KCP, Goga, Tristan

That’s great. I’d much rather send them TDS than Black anyway as I’d like to surround Reaves with as much defense as possible.

[cedric76]

If Reaves were acquired and extended for 30 million plus the full MLE was used. I'm sure next year we would be fine, so let's look to 26/27.

26/27 salary in millions

Reaves- 30
Suggs-32.4
Franz- 41.7
Paolo- 43 (Is this right?)
Wendell- 18
MLE- 15
Isaac- 14.5
Mo-8
TDS- 4
16- 4.6
Suns Pick- 5

~216 million for 11 players

If aprons go up 10% again (is this guaranteed?) then 1st would be at 215.49 and 2nd would be at 228.58 million. So ~12 million under the 2nd apron with 4 slots to fill? Seems doable. If Reaves takes much more than 30 it would be murky, ditto Paolo making All-NBA next year I guess.

Not easy, I guess getting Reaves is kind of an all-in move.

And anyone can correct me if any of this is way off. Cap is not anything near my specialty.

So 19% of the cap for suggs
19% of the cap on reeves
25% of the cap on Franz
30% of the cap on Paolo (he is likely to make 30% if makes it all NBA)

So 113 % of the cap on 4 players

1st apron is at 125%

And you want to use the mle on top of that?

Did you hear what Jett said about the 1st apron?

Are you seeing what s happening with Boston now?

[Knightro]

If Reaves were acquired and extended for 30 million plus the full MLE was used. I'm sure next year we would be fine, so let's look to 26/27.

26/27 salary in millions

Reaves- 30
Suggs-32.4
Franz- 41.7
Paolo- 43 (Is this right?)
Wendell- 18
MLE- 15
Isaac- 14.5
Mo-8
TDS- 4
16- 4.6
Suns Pick- 5

~216 million for 11 players

If aprons go up 10% again (is this guaranteed?) then 1st would be at 215.49 and 2nd would be at 228.58 million. So ~12 million under the 2nd apron with 4 slots to fill? Seems doable. If Reaves takes much more than 30 it would be murky, ditto Paolo making All-NBA next year I guess.

Not easy, I guess getting Reaves is kind of an all-in move.

And anyone can correct me if any of this is way off. Cap is not anything near my specialty.

So 19% of the cap for suggs
19% of the cap on reeves
25% of the cap on Franz
30% of the cap on Paolo (he is likely to make 30% if makes it all NBA)

So 113 % of the cap on 4 players

And you want to use the mle on top of that?

Did you hear what Jett said about the 1st apron?

Are you seeing what s happening with Boston now?

Boston won a title and is only going to unload players now because their Tatum just suffered a catastrophic injury and is going to miss most/all of next season.

Not sure that’s the example I’d be using.

I truly don’t care about the Magic having a couple of years of a big tax bill if they’re a legitimate contender to win the title.

And neither should you.

[cedric76]

If Reaves were acquired and extended for 30 million plus the full MLE was used. I'm sure next year we would be fine, so let's look to 26/27.

26/27 salary in millions

Reaves- 30
Suggs-32.4
Franz- 41.7
Paolo- 43 (Is this right?)
Wendell- 18
MLE- 15
Isaac- 14.5
Mo-8
TDS- 4
16- 4.6
Suns Pick- 5

~216 million for 11 players

If aprons go up 10% again (is this guaranteed?) then 1st would be at 215.49 and 2nd would be at 228.58 million. So ~12 million under the 2nd apron with 4 slots to fill? Seems doable. If Reaves takes much more than 30 it would be murky, ditto Paolo making All-NBA next year I guess.

Not easy, I guess getting Reaves is kind of an all-in move.

And anyone can correct me if any of this is way off. Cap is not anything near my specialty.

So 19% of the cap for suggs
19% of the cap on reeves
25% of the cap on Franz
30% of the cap on Paolo (he is likely to make 30% if makes it all NBA)

So 113 % of the cap on 4 players

And you want to use the mle on top of that?

Did you hear what Jett said about the 1st apron?

Are you seeing what s happening with Boston now?

Boston won a title and is only going to unload players now because their Tatum just suffered a catastrophic injury and is going to miss most/all of next season.

Not sure that’s the example I’d be using.

I truly don’t care about the Magic having a couple of years of a big tax bill if they’re a legitimate contender to win the title.

And neither should you.

If you are a contender, you can sell your ownership going above the 2nd apron for a season or 2.

If you have not passed the 1st round in 10yrs, it a not gonna fly.

So like it or not, we won't go over the 2nd apron untill we reach the conference final.
If you do that, then we can go over the 2nd apron

It a just a fact, even if you and I don't like it.

I REPEAT , going above the 2nd apron is NOT gonna happen until we reach the conference final.

[Knightro]

If you are a contender, you can sell your ownership going above the 2nd apron for a season or 2.

If you have not passed the 1st round in 10yrs, it a not gonna fly.

So like it or not, we won't go over the 2nd apron untill we reach the conference final.
If you do that, then we can go over the 2nd apron

It a just a fact, even if you and I don't like it.

I REPEAT , going above the 2nd apron is NOT gonna happen until we reach the conference final.

Ahh so this is the chicken and the egg.

You say the Magic won’t exceed the 2nd apron until they reach a conference finals and prove to ownership they’re close to being a contender.

I am saying they won’t reach a conference finals unless they make the kind of personnel changes that can get them there. And those personnel changes needed will make the roster more expensive. It is what it is.

And this upcoming year, no matter who they acquire, is the “prove it” year is it not?

Because they’re not going to be in the 2nd apron this season regardless. There’s a reasonable chance they could even duck the tax completely if they play their cards right.

I just don’t like getting stressed about the 26-27 tax bill before we have even seen how the team plays in 25-26.

Who’s to say a top 10 of…

Reaves/Suggs/Franz/Paolo/Carter

Black/NAW/Rui/Isaac/Moritz (if the Lakers actually want TDS)

couldn’t make a deep run next year? And if they do, tell the owners suck it up and pay them.

And if they don’t have success and it’s a bad fit or just not good enough, you can just pivot next summer to something different. Maybe you deal Suggs. Maybe you potentially let Reaves go via sign-and-trade.

Maybe the Suns implode and you end up with a top 7 pick in 2026 and move forward with a younger and cheaper player.

There’s a lot of ways it can go. They owe it to themselves to try and build the best team possible for this year. And getting a guy like Reaves (or Simons) at least gives them an out to pivot next summer if everything goes incredibly wrong.