Windhorst: Raptors making noise around the league looking for a “big fish” // Giannis & Toronto "Mutual Interest"/KD too

[tsherkin]

If the trio is Durant, Scottie, and Ingram, I view Scottie as the facilitator and primary defender while the other two are going to be put in positions to do the heavy lifting when it comes to scoring. Even though Ingram will be taking more shots I think in such a situation the team would have Scottie be the primary passer.

I hear you, but at that point, I wonder why we would give Scottie the ball as a primary facilitator, because teams will just play off him and go under screens every time given his profound weakness from 3. Ingram's a better ball handler, a better shooter, a better isolation scorer. Almost better to have Scottie camp out in the corner and sometimes try to cut or function as a screener/roll man than trying to use him as the live-dribble initiator.

I can see why you'd want Ingram working as a movement shooter, I'm just wondering after the weakness of having Scottie ATB.

[Brinbe]

An aging KD makes zero sense for us regardless of Giannis. The cost in terms of salary plus assets would just be too prohibitive considering KD's old as hell. Ingram is a fine enough number 2. You'd just need some good 3+D guards in the backcourt and stretch C to put around them.

We've already seen what the model for building a championship contending team around Giannis looks like.



the whole point of getting a Giannis is that he's a clear number one who elevates others

[ciueli]

An aging KD makes zero sense for us regardless of Giannis. The cost in terms of salary plus assets would just be too prohibitive considering KD's old as hell. Ingram is a fine enough number 2. You'd just need some good 3+D guards in the backcourt and stretch C to put around them.

We've already seen what the model for building a championship contending team around Giannis looks like.



the whole point of getting a Giannis is that he's a clear number one who elevates others

It makes total sense if:

1) Giannis isn't for trade (very likely).
2) Giannis is for trade but at a cost that would prevent us from building a contender around him (also likely).
3) Giannis is for trade but another team outbids us (once again, likely).
4) The whole point of trading for a big fish is just to make the playoffs to get Masai another long term contract as President of the Raptors (of course it is).

[Clutch0z24]

An aging KD makes zero sense for us regardless of Giannis. The cost in terms of salary plus assets would just be too prohibitive considering KD's old as hell. Ingram is a fine enough number 2. You'd just need some good 3+D guards in the backcourt and stretch C to put around them.

We've already seen what the model for building a championship contending team around Giannis looks like.



the whole point of getting a Giannis is that he's a clear number one who elevates others

Yeah i agree....I would not really be interested in giving up draft picks especially for a player who might be out of the league in 2 years....I think Giannis is the only player really worth giving up the assets for because he makes us title contenders for 5+ years.....Kawhi window with us for 1 year was great because we won the title....Idk if KD at his age has that kind of impact anymore...

Giannis is a legit Number 1 and it is worth to give up alot for him since most teams can't even get a true number 1 guy ever....The chances our future picks/Barnes/Dick or Ochai turn to be true number 1s ...Prolly slim....As long as Giannis is here we are in the mix every year for a long time....With KD you have 2 years....With Barnes and the core we have now....Prolly never a true contender and a pretender...

[AkelaLoneWolf]

People might hate this idea but just throwing it out there. What about RJ, Yak and #9 for Bane and a signed and traded Santi Aldama @ about 12 million per.

swap out bane with JJJ

Obviously I’d prefer JJJ but we aren’t able to extend him like Memphis is so that is a risk in free agency and it would also take way more than RJ and #9. I suggested JJJ earlier in this thread but the risk is real especially since I think it would take picks in multiple years.

where do you play him tho? move bi to the 2, barnes to the 3 and jjj to the four? masai's 6 9 vision coming to fruition here.

[Brinbe]

An aging KD makes zero sense for us regardless of Giannis. The cost in terms of salary plus assets would just be too prohibitive considering KD's old as hell. Ingram is a fine enough number 2. You'd just need some good 3+D guards in the backcourt and stretch C to put around them.

We've already seen what the model for building a championship contending team around Giannis looks like.



the whole point of getting a Giannis is that he's a clear number one who elevates others

It makes total sense if:

1) Giannis isn't for trade (very likely).
2) Giannis is for trade but at a cost that would prevent us from building a contender around him (also likely).
3) Giannis is for trade but another team outbids us (once again, likely).
4) The whole point of trading for a big fish is just to make the playoffs to get Masai another long term contract as President of the Raptors (of course it is).

Number one is unknown by everyone, including probably Giannis himself
Number two makes zero sense since Masai has already built a winner and Giannis has won a championship too.
Number three is tied to number one. If he wants to be here, they'll make it happen. that's how it normally works with stars, especially when the other team has assets worth trading for. and the raps do have assets.
Number four is ignoring that he's already won a championship here and had a prolonged era of success, invalidating your entire thesis

whatever weird axe you have to grind with masai, at least pretend not to be some conduit of logical analysis when you have a clear hate boner and also pre-suppose a bunch of things that haven't been established as fact yet.

[ciueli]

An aging KD makes zero sense for us regardless of Giannis. The cost in terms of salary plus assets would just be too prohibitive considering KD's old as hell. Ingram is a fine enough number 2. You'd just need some good 3+D guards in the backcourt and stretch C to put around them.

We've already seen what the model for building a championship contending team around Giannis looks like.



the whole point of getting a Giannis is that he's a clear number one who elevates others

It makes total sense if:

1) Giannis isn't for trade (very likely).
2) Giannis is for trade but at a cost that would prevent us from building a contender around him (also likely).
3) Giannis is for trade but another team outbids us (once again, likely).
4) The whole point of trading for a big fish is just to make the playoffs to get Masai another long term contract as President of the Raptors (of course it is).

Number one is unknown by everyone, including probably Giannis himself
Number two makes zero sense since Masai has already built a winner and Giannis has won a championship too.
Number three is tied to number one. If he wants to be here, they'll make it happen. that's how it normally works with stars, especially when the other team has assets worth trading for. and the raps do have assets.
Number four is ignoring that he's already won a championship here and had a prolonged era of success, invalidating your entire thesis

whatever weird axe you have to grind with masai, at least pretend not to be some conduit of logical analysis when you have a clear hate boner and also pre-suppose a bunch of things that haven't been established as fact yet.

Number one you handwave away.

Number two makes complete sense since the only time Giannis won a title he had 2x NBA All-Stars next to him and he barely won (Durant toe just over the line on a 3). Who are the All-Star level players we're complimenting him with? Once we trade Scottie to get Giannis, we're left with Ingram as the lone player on the roster who has been an All-Star previously and he hasn't made it in the past 5 seasons. Milwaukee actually has a better supporting cast now than what we'd be able to put around Giannis, at least they have Damian Lillard and they haven't been able to get it done.

Number three, if you think Giannis will force his way here to play with... who exactly? You haven't been paying attention. Last time he was a free agent he didn't even consider the Raptors at all, he was only interested in destinations with warm weather and no state tax. He only stayed in Milwaukee because the supermax made it more attractive to do so.

Number four isn't about an "axe to grind", it's about being realistic with respect to Masai and what he will need to do to keep his job. If you can't see that he's under the gun and desperately looking for win now moves you're incredibly blind.

[TGM]

Don’t know why people so caught up with giving up a kings ransom for Giannis. Sure we can get KD instead, but the idea is to get the best player and field the best possible team. It’s almost like people prefer ten years of being in the semi/conference finals versus 3 years in the finals. For me it’s an easy decision. To be howneat Raps should mortgage now till 2030/31 assets to try and get both. Giannis has 5-6 years of solid ball in him. So that pretty much is the asset window you are giving up. If the plan fails you trade him at 33/34 and you still get a haul to kick start your rebuild.

If you go for Giannis you try to get KD as well. The depth is easy to fill especially in the current CBA. The number of solid vets that would sign at the minimum is plentiful. That’s my least of concerns.

[Mattatron]

An aging KD makes zero sense for us regardless of Giannis. The cost in terms of salary plus assets would just be too prohibitive considering KD's old as hell. Ingram is a fine enough number 2. You'd just need some good 3+D guards in the backcourt and stretch C to put around them.

We've already seen what the model for building a championship contending team around Giannis looks like.



the whole point of getting a Giannis is that he's a clear number one who elevates others

KD makes more sense and is more probable than Giannis. KD won't cost much, so u still have assets for other moves. Giannis would cost a ton, and we wouldn't be able to build a team around him. We don't have a stretch big like Brook. Nor a Middleton or any other 3&D Shooters or a guard like Jrue.
Neither Ingram nor RJ are shooters.
Giannis would cost Barnes+++ and probably 4 frp and couple swaps.

[M3tro]

I'd trade Ingram for Durant right after securing Giannis.

[KP730]

Don’t know why people so caught up with giving up a kings ransom for Giannis. Sure we can get KD instead, but the idea is to get the best player and field the best possible team. It’s almost like people prefer ten years of being in the semi/conference finals versus 3 years in the finals. For me it’s an easy decision. To be howneat Raps should mortgage now till 2030/31 assets to try and get both. Giannis has 5-6 years of solid ball in him. So that pretty much is the asset window you are giving up. If the plan fails you trade him at 33/34 and you still get a haul to kick start your rebuild.

If you go for Giannis you try to get KD as well. The depth is easy to fill especially in the current CBA. The number of solid vets that would sign at the minimum is plentiful. That’s my least of concerns.

agreed, that’s the only way I would want to do the Giannis deal

and we shouldn’t be offering all our available picks along with Scottie.

gotta consider what Giannis deals we are competing with in the East here (assuming Giannis actually wants to stay in the East). rumours that the Knicks are making a “tsunami” offer…of what exactly? they control like 1 of their picks…no need for us to compete with ourselves on all this pick collateral…and if it Does take so much pick collateral that we couldn’t make a follow up move for another star, I wouldn’t do the trade

[ciueli]

Don’t know why people so caught up with giving up a kings ransom for Giannis. Sure we can get KD instead, but the idea is to get the best player and field the best possible team. It’s almost like people prefer ten years of being in the semi/conference finals versus 3 years in the finals. For me it’s an easy decision. To be howneat Raps should mortgage now till 2030/31 assets to try and get both. Giannis has 5-6 years of solid ball in him. So that pretty much is the asset window you are giving up. If the plan fails you trade him at 33/34 and you still get a haul to kick start your rebuild.

If you go for Giannis you try to get KD as well. The depth is easy to fill especially in the current CBA. The number of solid vets that would sign at the minimum is plentiful. That’s my least of concerns.

We spent years with no credible starting centre, backup centre, or backup PG and you say depth is easy to fill? We have years of this team losing because of nothing off the bench to disprove that belief.

Mortgaging the farm for Giannis is not a good idea, this isn't like the Kawhi trade where we had multi-time All-Star Kyle Lowry plus secret future All-NBA player Pascal Siakam plus a ton of depth to the point where we didn't even have minutes for everyone and could even absorb OG going down to a season ending injury because we got Danny Green in the trade. This deal will cost us dearly in terms of the future (full boat picks and swaps or near to it) and the ability to put pieces around Giannis as he declines, assuming he even stays past 2 seasons and doesn't bolt to the Lakers in free agency 2027. I really don't understand why people here think we'd somehow be significantly better than the Bucks with this trade.

[Pointgod]

I know people want to stay the course and i get the logic behind that and not spending assets right now but i think masai is viewing this as a new nba with total parity and especially the east where its wide open where a team like indiana caught lightning in a bottle since january and are now in the finals. Yes they have great depth, system and 2 stars. But if the Raps trade for a star, we can also make some noise. Matchups are everything in the playoffs.

You make a move for a star and another smaller move and you are all of a sudden one of the upper teams in the east with a shot to go far as long as u got health and some luck.

In my opinion, he’s making the right call by being aggressive this offseason and hopefully we get something thats not too expensive (giannis aside which will be)

There is too much smoke now. Masai is going to pull the trigger on a few moves this off season. He has to flex especially with ownership wanting playoffs next season.

These next couple weeks should be fun

Going for it for Giannis makes sense, especially if we can give up a pick heavy package. He’s a top 3 player and an overwhelming talent who’s easy to build around.

Trading for Durant is an idiotic move considering that he’d cost the 9th pick or two future firsts, he’s literally 2 years from 40 at the start of the season, a huge injury risk and let’s not forget his team has flamed out in spectacular fashion the past couple of years although that’s not all on him. Durant is Olajuwon 2.0.

Masai is not overpaying with 9 or future firsts for 1 year of durant.

So what’s Phoenix incentive to take on more salary and continue to pay tax for a lottery team?

[NotMyKawhi]

Most likely trade is cam 19 for RJ and 9.

[WuTang_CMB]

Going for it for Giannis makes sense, especially if we can give up a pick heavy package. He’s a top 3 player and an overwhelming talent who’s easy to build around.

Trading for Durant is an idiotic move considering that he’d cost the 9th pick or two future firsts, he’s literally 2 years from 40 at the start of the season, a huge injury risk and let’s not forget his team has flamed out in spectacular fashion the past couple of years although that’s not all on him. Durant is Olajuwon 2.0.

Masai is not overpaying with 9 or future firsts for 1 year of durant.

So what’s Phoenix incentive to take on more salary and continue to pay tax for a lottery team?

He’s only locked up for a year so Masai isn’t giving up 9 for him, that’d be dumb. The whole point of getting him is for cheap. If anything happens, houston makes the most sense.

[NotMyKawhi]

One of Jakobe, ocahi or Dick is gonna lose value when healthy.

Better to trade at least one

[bobbyp3588]

Most likely trade is cam 19 for RJ and 9.

Not happening. Huge overpay. I’d argue we’re giving best player and 10 picks higher. It’s absurd. Only happens if it’s a straight up player swap and we know that’s not happening.

We might end up with Cam but that’s not the deal.

[ATLTimekeeper]

RJ had as many all-star votes as Scottie without being promoted by the Raptors at all. I would love to see the reaction to Masai trading him AND down after tanking for 2 years just to get Cam Johnson. I'm sure Masai is trying to trade RJ, and maybe that is the best offer out there, but there's just no way in hell he's taking that trade.

[WuTang_CMB]

Rj will be used to fetch a star due to his contract amount. We are not doing it for cam johnson

[canada_dry]

If the core is KD, Scottie, Ingram, that’s like a 2 year window without having to sacrifice everything (from draft picks to Scottie and other players going the other way). It looks like Phoenix just wants a couple picks and contracts to unload KD’s contract.

If it is Giannis and Ingram, then that’s probably a slight longer window (maybe 3-4 years? MAYBE?) but in turn it costs us everything to get him, since Giannis is much younger than KD.

I just don’t trust Ingram as a second option given his health history and overall game. If he’s a third option it could work (KD would be the first option, Scottie the facilitator, Ingram the second scoring option but third in pecking order.

First it was siakam is a 3rd option. Now its ingram.

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