Windhorst: Raptors making noise around the league looking for a “big fish” // Giannis & Toronto "Mutual Interest"/KD too

[Clutch0z24]

If we get Durant and Move Yak we are keeping 9 to draft one of Maluach/Queen 100%.....

IQ
Barnes
Ingram
KD
Mal or Queen

Id argue Queen fits better with that lineup than Mal...Would be interesting what we do post KD trade though.

We need Queen/Mal WITH Poeltl man. If you trade for KD then you are trying to compete for a championship and no way in hell are Queen/Mal going to be championship level starting Centers right out of the gate...

We are not a championship level team with the team we have now with adding Mal/Queen.....So id rather up my chances with KD....It would be nice to keep Yak in a KD trade but for salary wise seems impossible.....I think Masai is going to try and make a move regardless this offseason....Giannis/KD are both the most ceiling raisers on the market....If we go after Giannis... Barnes + is gone if we go after KD... Yak + Is gone....

Masai will at least make offers this offseason...Im expecting to see some sort of shake up regardless.

[tsherkin]

https://www.reddit.com/r/torontoraptors/s/ROpgIhp7rM

Sam Vecenie thinks Poeltl + RJ + Dick for KD gets it done.

Our Center position already sucks so not a fan of trading our only Center. Currently, we need to add a Center in addition to Poeltl, let alone go get 2 new ones in this scenario. We have already seen how trying to win without the Center position solidified works...

Poeltl in a trade with no center coming back isn't a hot look at all.

Could ask for Nick Richards back in that trade. We're also not giving up #9 so could draft a big (Malauch, Sorber, Queen).

We likely become a 2nd apron team or very close to one. And that's where it becomes dumb. If we can clear the 2nd apron comfortably and just be a tax team I'm probably okay with it, but would probably still lean no. I really like KD too, just don't see the fit. Not with the guys we have, and where he is in his career.

Draft isn't likely to net us a center who will provide what Jak already does. Dunno if I want to give up on him a second time just for the sake of KD, who isn't an offensive anchor anymore. He'll give you an efficient 25, but his D isn't amazing, he isn't a driver of team efficacy and we'd still be missing a lot of pieces... and now a SUPER donut team with no frontcourt resistance/value at all. And with a glut at the 3/4.

It's problematic.

[canada_dry]

First it was siakam is a 3rd option. Now its ingram.

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

Please take your meds because you are hearing things again. Siakam is a second option, always has been and will be. No one claimed he’s a third option. Maybe if he’s on team with two sure fire stars then yeah sure.

First second option in history to lead his team in scoring in the regular season and playoffs, be a 2 way menace, and, be the best player in the Conference Finals.

Jalen brown just did that last year as regards to conference finals mvp. Got finals mvp too. Didn't lead team in points for the season though, no.

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[RaptorPride]

I don't want KD unless we get Giannis with him. KD is to old for us. Unless we had a team built where this would be the final move to become a contender.

[Clutch0z24]

I don't want KD unless we get Giannis with him. KD is to old for us. Unless we had a team built where this would be the final move to become a contender.

Its possible to get them both if the trades look something like...

RJ/Yak + Pick for KD

Barnes/Dick/Ochai/Lawson/9th/2 or 3 FRPs for Giannis

I guess it could work because you would keep Ingram/IQ/Walter/Shead/Mogbo/Battle/Chomche

But you have no C and not much depth...Vet mins/Buyouts would be cruical...

[Consequence]

If the deal was KD for Barrett/Poeltl/27 1st, we'd still be able to use the taxpayer MLE and be capped at the first apron, right? There are a couple of vet Cs on the market this summer that can slot into that. Draft a C at 9, vet taxMLE C in rotation, still be able to make a move at the deadline if it's a glaring weakness.

[Zeno]

I don't want KD unless we get Giannis with him. KD is to old for us. Unless we had a team built where this would be the final move to become a contender.

I think I might be the rare poster that doesn’t want either. Giannis because of the extreme cost and KD because of his age and needing to extend him. I kind of want us to just draft boa and see what happens when we try. Then if is showing real progress, you got your whole draft going forward to make a ‘big fish’ type move. I do obviously understand the attraction of getting Giannis though.

[Scase]

https://www.reddit.com/r/torontoraptors/s/ROpgIhp7rM

Sam Vecenie thinks Poeltl + RJ + Dick for KD gets it done.

Our Center position already sucks so not a fan of trading our only Center. Currently, we need to add a Center in addition to Poeltl, let alone go get 2 new ones in this scenario. We have already seen how trying to win without the Center position solidified works...

Poeltl in a trade with no center coming back isn't a hot look at all.

That feels like a massive overpay for a 37 year old, 1 year rental. I'm not opposed to the KD acquisition, but running a rookie centre or Boucher (lmao) would be horrific.

Honestly at this point, I think the core is beyond mid, so I welcome any of these insane trades. At least it'll be an interesting season, and who knows, maybe lightning will strike.

[RaptorPride]

I don't want KD unless we get Giannis with him. KD is to old for us. Unless we had a team built where this would be the final move to become a contender.

Its possible to get them both if the trades look something like...

RJ/Yak + Pick for KD

Barnes/Dick/Ochai/Lawson/9th/2 or 3 FRPs for Giannis

I guess it could work because you would keep Ingram/IQ/Walter/Shead/Mogbo/Battle/Chomche

But you have no C and not much depth...Vet mins/Buyouts would be cruical...

If I pull off those two trades. I would break down IQ and/or BI into multiple players in a trade. They both have big enough contracts where we could get multiple for one.

[ciueli]

https://www.reddit.com/r/torontoraptors/s/ROpgIhp7rM

Sam Vecenie thinks Poeltl + RJ + Dick for KD gets it done.

Our Center position already sucks so not a fan of trading our only Center. Currently, we need to add a Center in addition to Poeltl, let alone go get 2 new ones in this scenario. We have already seen how trying to win without the Center position solidified works...

Poeltl in a trade with no center coming back isn't a hot look at all.

Could ask for Nick Richards back in that trade. We're also not giving up #9 so could draft a big (Malauch, Sorber, Queen).

We likely become a 2nd apron team or very close to one. And that's where it becomes dumb. If we can clear the 2nd apron comfortably and just be a tax team I'm probably okay with it, but would probably still lean no. I really like KD too, just don't see the fit. Not with the guys we have, and where he is in his career.

I don't see why the KD offer isn't just Ingram + young players, Ingram + Dick + Ja'Kobe + Castleton works. I don't know why we'd even want to keep Ingram if we're trading for KD, they are the same type of player, KD is just better.

[Zeno]

If the deal was KD for Barrett/Poeltl/27 1st, we'd still be able to use the taxpayer MLE and be capped at the first apron, right? There are a couple of vet Cs on the market this summer that can slot into that. Draft a C at 9, vet taxMLE C in rotation, still be able to make a move at the deadline if it's a glaring weakness.

If it is KD/Jak for Durant, you are adding 7 million in salary. That and the rookie scale for 9 would put us very close if not at the 1st apron hardcap since we’d have an additional roster spot to fill too. If you actually wanted to make the trade, which I don’t, you probably want to send a guy like Occhai out(6.3 million) to a 3rd team for a 1st to send to phoenix instead of ours.

[Clutch0z24]

Poeltl in a trade with no center coming back isn't a hot look at all.

Could ask for Nick Richards back in that trade. We're also not giving up #9 so could draft a big (Malauch, Sorber, Queen).

We likely become a 2nd apron team or very close to one. And that's where it becomes dumb. If we can clear the 2nd apron comfortably and just be a tax team I'm probably okay with it, but would probably still lean no. I really like KD too, just don't see the fit. Not with the guys we have, and where he is in his career.

I don't see why the KD offer isn't just Ingram + young players, Ingram + Dick + Ja'Kobe + Castleton works. I don't know why we'd even want to keep Ingram if we're trading for KD, they are the same type of player, KD is just better.

Because Suns have said if they trade Durant they want a C as the main player coming in the trade....If we don't offer Yak they prolly just find a different team offering a C.

[RaptorPride]

I don't want KD unless we get Giannis with him. KD is to old for us. Unless we had a team built where this would be the final move to become a contender.

I think I might be the rare poster that doesn’t want either. Giannis because of the extreme cost and KD because of his age and needing to extend him. I kind of want us to just draft boa and see what happens when we try. Then if is showing real progress, you got your whole draft going forward to make a ‘big fish’ type move. I do obviously understand the attraction of getting Giannis though.

I feel like that's what the OG Masai move would be. Don't overpay and deplete your team of assets for a superstar. And for sure not one that is at the end of their career. Just keep building your team until you find a superstar for a reasonable price or just develop one.

What I think makes this different is Giannis and Masai knowing each other. Masai must just push extra hard to get him. And Masai is also at the end of his deal so might be forced to make a move like this or KD.

[WuTang_CMB]

That celtics guy said giannis mother and masai’s wife are close lol

[JB7]

KD at this point makes no sense on the Raptors. With a core of Barnes (23), RJ (24), IQ (25) and BI (27), why would they want to bring in KD, soon to be 37?

They chased KD a couple of years ago, because he better fit their timeline with FVV & OG, and a young Barnes as the future.

Now, it just doesn't make any sense.

I think the play for Masai is Giannis or nothing. With Giannis, they are pivoting away from Barnes, the youngest of the core, and trying to compete in a weak East for the next 4-5 years. If they can't make the Giannis deal, I think he sticks with the current roster and uses the 9th pick. The Raps, regardless of any trades, will be a much better team next season, and in a weak East, they will significantly move up in the standings.

[Zeno]

I don't want KD unless we get Giannis with him. KD is to old for us. Unless we had a team built where this would be the final move to become a contender.

I think I might be the rare poster that doesn’t want either. Giannis because of the extreme cost and KD because of his age and needing to extend him. I kind of want us to just draft boa and see what happens when we try. Then if is showing real progress, you got your whole draft going forward to make a ‘big fish’ type move. I do obviously understand the attraction of getting Giannis though.

I feel like that's what the OG Masai move would be. Don't overpay and deplete your team of assets for a superstar. And for sure not one that is at the end of their career. Just keep building your team until you find a superstar for a reasonable price or just develop one.

What I think makes this different is Giannis and Masai knowing each other. Masai must just push extra hard to get him. And Masai is also at the end of his deal so might be forced to make a move like this or KD.

Yeah I do get trading for Giannis for sure but the idea of a KD move is just sad. I want to believe he is just exploring stuff in that case like they always do. That move is very late stage BC to me. I still want to believe Masai is above ‘save my job’ motivated trades like that.

[Rapsobsessed7]

Poeltl in a trade with no center coming back isn't a hot look at all.

Could ask for Nick Richards back in that trade. We're also not giving up #9 so could draft a big (Malauch, Sorber, Queen).

We likely become a 2nd apron team or very close to one. And that's where it becomes dumb. If we can clear the 2nd apron comfortably and just be a tax team I'm probably okay with it, but would probably still lean no. I really like KD too, just don't see the fit. Not with the guys we have, and where he is in his career.

We can't ask for Richards back because the salaries won't work with KDs 54M.

Yes it does. You can do 2 separate deals

1. KD for Barrett + Poeltl

2. Gradey/Ochai for Richards

Or I believe we still have a TE. You can absorb Richards into the TE first then do KD for Barrett + Poeltl + Dick

[planetmars]

Poeltl in a trade with no center coming back isn't a hot look at all.

Could ask for Nick Richards back in that trade. We're also not giving up #9 so could draft a big (Malauch, Sorber, Queen).

We likely become a 2nd apron team or very close to one. And that's where it becomes dumb. If we can clear the 2nd apron comfortably and just be a tax team I'm probably okay with it, but would probably still lean no. I really like KD too, just don't see the fit. Not with the guys we have, and where he is in his career.

I don't see why the KD offer isn't just Ingram + young players, Ingram + Dick + Ja'Kobe + Castleton works. I don't know why we'd even want to keep Ingram if we're trading for KD, they are the same type of player, KD is just better.

Feels weird since we just traded for BI, let him sit on the bench to finish the season. And then extended him as well. I'd assume they want to keep him.

Regardless, no need to include too many young players or even picks. KD is an expiring. Phoenix will likely get a similar deal to what Miami got for Butler. That ultimately ended up becoming Wiggins, Anderson, Tucker (who they traded with a 2nd for Mitchell) and a 2025 pick (top 10 protected, ended up #20).

I really think RJ+Jak is close to that. No picks since Jak is probably similar to Anderson and a protected pick in value, while RJ is close to Wiggins in value.

And if we get Richards back it helps. He's only making $5M so should be a pretty simple trade. Ochai and Gradey both make around as much. If we trade Gradey I'd want at least #29 back.

But yeah, ultimately I think I prefer Jak and RJ to KD. Even though KD is a legend. The fit with BI is just too weird.

[Raps in 4]

First it was siakam is a 3rd option. Now its ingram.

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

Please take your meds because you are hearing things again. Siakam is a second option, always has been and will be. No one claimed he’s a third option. Maybe if he’s on team with two sure fire stars then yeah sure.

First second option in history to lead his team in scoring in the regular season and playoffs, be a 2 way menace, and, be the best player in the Conference Finals.

Those Suns teams in the 00s that were led by Amare and Marion with Nash as the third option were really good. The way Amare orchestrated that offence was masterful.

Same as those Clippers teams with Blake Griffin as their first option, and CP3 as his sidekick. Blake was a basketball savant.

PPG is such an underrated metric for evaluating impact. More people should use it.

[ciueli]

Could ask for Nick Richards back in that trade. We're also not giving up #9 so could draft a big (Malauch, Sorber, Queen).

We likely become a 2nd apron team or very close to one. And that's where it becomes dumb. If we can clear the 2nd apron comfortably and just be a tax team I'm probably okay with it, but would probably still lean no. I really like KD too, just don't see the fit. Not with the guys we have, and where he is in his career.

I don't see why the KD offer isn't just Ingram + young players, Ingram + Dick + Ja'Kobe + Castleton works. I don't know why we'd even want to keep Ingram if we're trading for KD, they are the same type of player, KD is just better.

Because Suns have said if they trade Durant they want a C as the main player coming in the trade....If we don't offer Yak they prolly just find a different team offering a C.

If that's the case I don't see a lot of options for them, they're basically looking at the Wolves for a declining Gobert or New York if they can find a way to pry KAT away from them. I doubt they stick to that demand unless they can swing a trade with NY.