Windhorst: Raptors making noise around the league looking for a “big fish” // Giannis & Toronto "Mutual Interest"/KD too

[ATLTimekeeper]

I think I might be the rare poster that doesn’t want either. Giannis because of the extreme cost and KD because of his age and needing to extend him. I kind of want us to just draft boa and see what happens when we try. Then if is showing real progress, you got your whole draft going forward to make a ‘big fish’ type move. I do obviously understand the attraction of getting Giannis though.

I feel like that's what the OG Masai move would be. Don't overpay and deplete your team of assets for a superstar. And for sure not one that is at the end of their career. Just keep building your team until you find a superstar for a reasonable price or just develop one.

What I think makes this different is Giannis and Masai knowing each other. Masai must just push extra hard to get him. And Masai is also at the end of his deal so might be forced to make a move like this or KD.

Yeah I do get trading for Giannis for sure but the idea of a KD move is just sad. I want to believe he is just exploring stuff in that case like they always do. That move is very late stage BC to me. I still want to believe Masai is above ‘save my job’ motivated trades like that.

Late stage BC made the Lowry trade.

I don't see why KD would want to play here at all, but I guess the thinking is that anytime an owner says he vows to be more 'hands on' and that owner is already proven to be an idiot there's probably a steal to be had.

[djsunyc]

after the decision was made to move og and pascal, step 1 was rebulding quality players and depth. right now we have about 8 guys that can play: iq, rj, bi, scottie, yak, shead, ochai, gradey, jakobe

any move this summer should not be viewed as all in. it would be step 2 of the process which is to increase the talent base.

we dont know if this team works together and can make the playoffs. making another move this summer could ensure that but it wont be the final move. there will be at least 2 or 3 more steps required to be top 3 in the east.

[Potential]

I have a really good feeling we end up with BOTH KD and Giannis. This summer is gonna be crazy in Toronto

[NinjaBro]

Smh at all these people who wants to trade Poeltl like he's chopped liver. Have you guys seen him play this year? Most likely not as there were a lot of people checking out early and fapping to tankathon sims during the season.

This team is unwatchable without a quality center. You guys make it look like it's easy to just pluck any random center into our lineup. Never forget Alex Len and Aaron Baynes.

[WuTang_CMB]

I have a really good feeling we end up with BOTH KD and Giannis. This summer is gonna be crazy in Toronto

[Tha Cynic]

Masai's job is on the line, which is generally a bad thing for making big moves. Other teams know this and will squeeze us. He's already canvassed the league with our agenda. I'm not worried about the price of Giannis, because he's a top 5 player right now. I'm worried that we miss out on Giannis and get bled for lesser stars or Durant, who is still great but at an age where rapid decline can just happen one season to the next.

I would be worried if Masai had ever given up too much before, and he never has, so this is based on nothing. In fact, he has been criticized for overvaluing his own assets in the past, but he has generally been right including his stance on guys like Siakam and OG. You cheer for a team who's decision-maker seems to be able to evaluate talent at an elite level.

[Dr Positivity]

I think a team like eg. Cleveland or Orlando shouldn't worry that much about not being on Giannis list, he's signed for multiple years and his personality is pure competitor and wants more rings.

The Cavs are really the perfect fit. I'd try to do it with a Garland package therefore keeping the amazing Giannis/Mobley frontcourt. Bucks get an all-star PG who gets his own team outside of Mitchell.

[S.W.A.N]

I have a really good feeling we end up with BOTH KD and Giannis. This summer is gonna be crazy in Toronto

Almost zero chance that happens. Thank the gods

[Duffman100]

Masai's job is on the line, which is generally a bad thing for making big moves. Other teams know this and will squeeze us. He's already canvassed the league with our agenda. I'm not worried about the price of Giannis, because he's a top 5 player right now. I'm worried that we miss out on Giannis and get bled for lesser stars or Durant, who is still great but at an age where rapid decline can just happen one season to the next.

I would be worried if Masai had ever given up too much before, and he never has, so this is based on nothing. In fact, he has been criticized for overvaluing his own assets in the past, but he has generally been right including his stance on guys like Siakam and OG. You cheer for a team who's decision-maker seems to be able to evaluate talent at an elite level.

Yeah even the poeltl trade. The value of was totally fine just bad timing for the trade.

[sidsid]

I don't want KD unless we get Giannis with him. KD is to old for us. Unless we had a team built where this would be the final move to become a contender.

I think I might be the rare poster that doesn’t want either. Giannis because of the extreme cost and KD because of his age and needing to extend him. I kind of want us to just draft boa and see what happens when we try. Then if is showing real progress, you got your whole draft going forward to make a ‘big fish’ type move. I do obviously understand the attraction of getting Giannis though.

I feel like that's what the OG Masai move would be. Don't overpay and deplete your team of assets for a superstar. And for sure not one that is at the end of their career. Just keep building your team until you find a superstar for a reasonable price or just develop one.

What I think makes this different is Giannis and Masai knowing each other. Masai must just push extra hard to get him. And Masai is also at the end of his deal so might be forced to make a move like this or KD.

The Kawhi deal is a different flavour of the Durant option now. Instead of age being the issue, Kawhi had both health and "I'm going to LA" as the value dampeners on an expiring contract. The KD assumption is either that he is already washed now, or the upside is that he beats father time and gives you two or 3 years of elite-ish enough play.

The Giannis value problem is that most of our value is entirely in our useful players/best assets. That's the cost of not rebuilding and building the asset base.

The value plays are all risky, sane as Kawhi was. Embiid, Zion, etc.

[tsherkin]

I have a really good feeling we end up with BOTH KD and Giannis. This summer is gonna be crazy in Toronto

Almost zero chance that happens. Thank the gods

That would make for a very interesting season, haha.

[Raps in 4]

Smh at all these people who wants to trade Poeltl like he's chopped liver. Have you guys seen him play this year? Most likely not as there were a lot of people checking out early and fapping to tankathon sims during the season.

This team is unwatchable without a quality center. You guys make it look like it's easy to just pluck any random center into our lineup. Never forget Alex Len and Aaron Baynes.

Poeltl doesn't fit next to Giannis, which is another reason why we're not ready for this trade.

If we trade for Giannis, we'd need a new C (is anyone even available, and how do we acquire them?), we'd need to keep all our shooters out of the trade package (not happening), we'd need to flip RJ for actual value (nobody wants him), and if by some miracle all of that happens, we then need to pray that nobody gets injured during the season because our team is held together by duct tape.

[Clutch0z24]

I think I might be the rare poster that doesn’t want either. Giannis because of the extreme cost and KD because of his age and needing to extend him. I kind of want us to just draft boa and see what happens when we try. Then if is showing real progress, you got your whole draft going forward to make a ‘big fish’ type move. I do obviously understand the attraction of getting Giannis though.

I feel like that's what the OG Masai move would be. Don't overpay and deplete your team of assets for a superstar. And for sure not one that is at the end of their career. Just keep building your team until you find a superstar for a reasonable price or just develop one.

What I think makes this different is Giannis and Masai knowing each other. Masai must just push extra hard to get him. And Masai is also at the end of his deal so might be forced to make a move like this or KD.

The Kawhi deal is a different flavour of the Durant option now. Instead of age being the issue, Kawhi had both health and "I'm going to LA" as the value dampeners on an expiring contract. The KD assumption is either that he is already washed now, or the upside is that he beats father time and gives you two or 3 years of elite-ish enough play.

The Giannis value problem is that most of our value is entirely in our useful players/best assets. That's the cost of not rebuilding and building the asset base.

The value plays are all risky, sane as Kawhi was. Embiid, Zion, etc.

Would Giannis package really be that risky?....I mean we obviously get the best player in the deal by a mile.....Giving up Barnes for Giannis is basically a wash....Because i don't think Barnes/Giannis look good on the court anyways....Outside of Barnes its prolly Dick/Ochai to match salaries....Out of them 3 players which player are you really worried about giving up for Giannis?....Now if its RJ as well im prolly taking off Dick in the deal...So either way im keeping one of the young SGs...

Draft pick wise which will be the biggest risk in the deal....You give up the 9th....Chances that 9th pick becomes an all star level player? ....Might be a good 35%....Chances are its just another role player....As for future picks all the picks if Giannis is on the team are prolly 20-30th area in terms of value....Can you really add anything valuable in that range in the draft? Sure but not likely....We will still have 2nd round picks and undrafted players to choose from which Masai shows a good track record of getting gems here and there....

With Giannis you are a title contender for a long time...Paired with IQ/Yak/RJ or Dick/Ingram Young bench Walter/Shead/Mogbo/Chomche/Battle...
I like the makeup of that team ....Can count on a few good Vets to come here as well in FA or Buy outs on the cheap to fill holes in the team....

Anyone saying that would be Bucks 2.0 ^ Are lying to themselves...

[Clutch0z24]

Smh at all these people who wants to trade Poeltl like he's chopped liver. Have you guys seen him play this year? Most likely not as there were a lot of people checking out early and fapping to tankathon sims during the season.

This team is unwatchable without a quality center. You guys make it look like it's easy to just pluck any random center into our lineup. Never forget Alex Len and Aaron Baynes.

Poeltl doesn't fit next to Giannis, which is another reason why we're not ready for this trade.

If we trade for Giannis, we'd need a new C (is anyone even available, and how do we acquire them?), we'd need to keep all our shooters out of the trade package (not happening), we'd need to flip RJ for actual value (nobody wants him), and if by some miracle all of that happens, we then need to pray that nobody gets injured during the season because our team is held together by duct tape.

If Giannis is traded here there will be follow up moves....Thats why its good players like Yak/RJ have value we could flip either of them for players on the same level that fit Giannis better...I don't think Barrett/Yak are both valueless...RJ can deff be traded for either a good player, packaged with Yak for an upgrade, Or used to get depth pieces...Either way its a win for us.

[Raps in 4]

Smh at all these people who wants to trade Poeltl like he's chopped liver. Have you guys seen him play this year? Most likely not as there were a lot of people checking out early and fapping to tankathon sims during the season.

This team is unwatchable without a quality center. You guys make it look like it's easy to just pluck any random center into our lineup. Never forget Alex Len and Aaron Baynes.

Poeltl doesn't fit next to Giannis, which is another reason why we're not ready for this trade.

If we trade for Giannis, we'd need a new C (is anyone even available, and how do we acquire them?), we'd need to keep all our shooters out of the trade package (not happening), we'd need to flip RJ for actual value (nobody wants him), and if by some miracle all of that happens, we then need to pray that nobody gets injured during the season because our team is held together by duct tape.

If Giannis is traded here there will be follow up moves....Thats why its good players like Yak/RJ have value we could flip either of them for players on the same level that fit Giannis better...I don't think Barrett/Yak are both valueless...RJ can deff be traded for either a good player, packaged with Yak for an upgrade, Or used to get depth pieces...Either way its a win for us.

RJ has no value. Yak has value to some teams, but no team with a stretch C is going to trade him for Yak.

[ATLTimekeeper]

Masai's job is on the line, which is generally a bad thing for making big moves. Other teams know this and will squeeze us. He's already canvassed the league with our agenda. I'm not worried about the price of Giannis, because he's a top 5 player right now. I'm worried that we miss out on Giannis and get bled for lesser stars or Durant, who is still great but at an age where rapid decline can just happen one season to the next.

I would be worried if Masai had ever given up too much before, and he never has, so this is based on nothing. In fact, he has been criticized for overvaluing his own assets in the past, but he has generally been right including his stance on guys like Siakam and OG. You cheer for a team who's decision-maker seems to be able to evaluate talent at an elite level.

We're a 30 win team. I would love if Masai still evaluated talent at an elite level. Right now that talent is all playing for good teams, and the guys he thought were better have not pulled it together. Hence, the need to make a big swing to save his job. We have to hope it's worth it in the end, but it is what it is. He is leveraged.

[Clutch0z24]

Poeltl doesn't fit next to Giannis, which is another reason why we're not ready for this trade.

If we trade for Giannis, we'd need a new C (is anyone even available, and how do we acquire them?), we'd need to keep all our shooters out of the trade package (not happening), we'd need to flip RJ for actual value (nobody wants him), and if by some miracle all of that happens, we then need to pray that nobody gets injured during the season because our team is held together by duct tape.

If Giannis is traded here there will be follow up moves....Thats why its good players like Yak/RJ have value we could flip either of them for players on the same level that fit Giannis better...I don't think Barrett/Yak are both valueless...RJ can deff be traded for either a good player, packaged with Yak for an upgrade, Or used to get depth pieces...Either way its a win for us.

RJ has no value. Yak has value to some teams, but no team with a stretch C is going to trade him for Yak.

Tbh though....Just because we have Yak/RJ on the team that shouldn't stop us from adding a top 3 player and a championship ceiling raiser....Even if they don't fit the best you get Giannis in the door and figure it out as you go....We would have at least 5 years to build a good team around him...

I think Masai will find some value on the market for these guys like i said even if RJ is used to add depth role players that would be fine with me....Masai is pretty elite at building a team around a true number one....As hes done with our current team we have now.....Id rather have a legit true number 1 on my team than not and wish to the stars we draft a true number 1 with a low lotto pick, Or wishing to the moon someone on our team currently is a true number 1.....Giannis Path to a title seems possible, The current team we have path to a title seems like a long shot at best.

[Tha Cynic]

Masai's job is on the line, which is generally a bad thing for making big moves. Other teams know this and will squeeze us. He's already canvassed the league with our agenda. I'm not worried about the price of Giannis, because he's a top 5 player right now. I'm worried that we miss out on Giannis and get bled for lesser stars or Durant, who is still great but at an age where rapid decline can just happen one season to the next.

I would be worried if Masai had ever given up too much before, and he never has, so this is based on nothing. In fact, he has been criticized for overvaluing his own assets in the past, but he has generally been right including his stance on guys like Siakam and OG. You cheer for a team who's decision-maker seems to be able to evaluate talent at an elite level.

We're a 30 win team. I would love if Masai still evaluated talent at an elite level. Right now that talent is all playing for good teams, and the guys he thought were better have not pulled it together. Hence, the need to make a big swing to save his job. We have to hope it's worth it in the end, but it is what it is. He is leveraged.

Yeah, teams go through transition phases in every sport. Welcome to one of them. Raptors tried to let the last iteration work out. It didn't. Had to move on at some point. Like I said - Masai was even criticized for holding on to them for so long (now being criticized for trading them? ). This isn't a free agent destination. We'll always have these transition phases.

[ATLTimekeeper]

Masai's job is on the line, which is generally a bad thing for making big moves. Other teams know this and will squeeze us. He's already canvassed the league with our agenda. I'm not worried about the price of Giannis, because he's a top 5 player right now. I'm worried that we miss out on Giannis and get bled for lesser stars or Durant, who is still great but at an age where rapid decline can just happen one season to the next.

I would be worried if Masai had ever given up too much before, and he never has, so this is based on nothing. In fact, he has been criticized for overvaluing his own assets in the past, but he has generally been right including his stance on guys like Siakam and OG. You cheer for a team who's decision-maker seems to be able to evaluate talent at an elite level.

Yeah even the poeltl trade. The value of was totally fine just bad timing for the trade.

Personally I think we would have preferred the pick in both seasons. It's not that Poeltl isn't valuable, but we gave up pretty much the maximum value available in that trade. The weak protections were a sign that he was leveraged. He didn't trade Poeltl to then have to rip down the team and win 30 games a year the next two seasons. It all just happened as a result of bad planning.

[Raps in 4]

If Giannis is traded here there will be follow up moves....Thats why its good players like Yak/RJ have value we could flip either of them for players on the same level that fit Giannis better...I don't think Barrett/Yak are both valueless...RJ can deff be traded for either a good player, packaged with Yak for an upgrade, Or used to get depth pieces...Either way its a win for us.

RJ has no value. Yak has value to some teams, but no team with a stretch C is going to trade him for Yak.

Tbh though....Just because we have Yak/RJ on the team that shouldn't stop us from adding a top 3 player and a championship ceiling raiser....Even if they don't fit the best you get Giannis in the door and figure it out as you go....We would have at least 5 years to build a good team around him...

I think Masai will find some value on the market for these guys like i said even if RJ is used to add depth role players that would be fine with me....Masai is pretty elite at building a team around a true number one....As hes done with our current team we have now.....Id rather have a legit true number 1 on my team than not and wish to the stars we draft a true number 1 with a low lotto pick, Or wishing to the moon someone on our team currently is a true number 1.....Giannis Path to a title seems possible, The current team we have path to a title seems like a long shot at best.

Edit: I was on the wrong spotrac page.