Official Knicks Coaching Search Thread

[god shammgod]

You either get a young assistance coach ready for a promotion or you get someone who has been fired before.

Its not like Spo is walking in the door.

so anyone who has been fired before is not any good ? all those young coaches will get fired soon enough too. very few coaches last long.

your speaking in code sham...what vet coach are your referencing that doesn't have a job right now is really good option?

Malone? - we have no interest (rightfully so)
Mike Brown? - that would be comically bad
Taylor Jenkins - I guess he would be worth an interview but not sure he's a fit.

I know your big on JVG...I just don't see the connection with our FO. Has there been even an ounce of a rumor that a reunion would be possible?

Frank Vogel?

i'm arguing against the idea that a complete unknown is better than someone we know is at least good. you're saying a guy who might be great but also might be terrible is a better choice than someone we know is at least competent. we're trying to win a championship. there's not a lot of time to develop a coach.

and i don't know the name. it's their job to find the guy, not mine. they fired someone who was competent. they better find someone else who is. maybe you should have figured this out first before firing thibs.

[god shammgod]

I don't think it's finals or bust. Not being a pain in the ass seems to be a core qualification.

a non pain in the ass that loses in round 2 next year is gonna be deemed a failure. and killed by the fans and media alike.

[KnicksGadfly]

No one is asking for an 11 man rotation tho. Playing 7 guys in December is dumb as sh*t and I'm glad Leon Rose agreed.

Guarantee you that Thibs defenders don't want nuance in your answers MrDollarBills! They only want to compare themselves to Cleveland, Indiana or OKC regardless of the roster or schedule or situation!

this kind of post doesn't really advance the conversation. just more of the us vs. them bull we don't want.

Sure. I think I could have answered better and had more patience.

Question, though. Wouldn’t the original post also fall under the same purview? The poster, FrozenEnvelope, designates a group of people “the same guys who hated Thibs” and then he used a straw man argument that ignores nuance and seems kind of insulting. It basically places anyone who supported Thibs’ firing under a single category. I feel this type of argument kind of invites this response.

To be fair, I could have responded better, and maybe I just need to ignore it.

[Jeff Van Gully]

Guarantee you that Thibs defenders don't want nuance in your answers MrDollarBills! They only want to compare themselves to Cleveland, Indiana or OKC regardless of the roster or schedule or situation!

this kind of post doesn't really advance the conversation. just more of the us vs. them bull we don't want.

Sure. I think I could have answered better and had more patience.

Question, though. Wouldn’t the original post also fall under the same purview? The poster, FrozenEnvelope, designates a group of people “the same guys who hated Thibs” and then he used a straw man argument that ignores nuance and seems kind of insulting. It basically places anyone who supported Thibs’ firing under a single category. I feel this type of argument kind of invites this response.

To be fair, I could have responded better, and maybe I just need to ignore it.

i agree with you. i didn't pay close enoguh attention to the FE post you're referring to. yeah. same vibe. not the way. trying not to give that tone so much life.

appreciate the reflection and recognition all around.

[MrDollarBills]

I don't think it's finals or bust. Not being a pain in the ass seems to be a core qualification.

Step 1 is to modernize everything on both sides of the ball.

[MrDollarBills]

I don't think it's finals or bust. Not being a pain in the ass seems to be a core qualification.

a non pain in the ass that loses in round 2 next year is gonna be deemed a failure. and killed by the fans and media alike.

There's no guarantees that a veteran coach doesn't meet the same fate either.

There's no guarantee that we even make it back to the ECFs.

But what was made very clear by this season and playoff run is that we need to play basketball like we're in 2025 and not 2005, and I support any hire that brings us into the present day NBA.

[WaltFrazier]

yep. nothing but endless body and ball movement. no isos at all. kolek gets 30 minutes.

Nobody has even said we're interested in him. It's all fan driven.

it's a lot to ask of a 1st time coach to have to make the finals. no even fair to expect that of him.

Nick Nurse did it. Steve Kerr too?

[nykballa2k4]

Nobody has even said we're interested in him. It's all fan driven.

it's a lot to ask of a 1st time coach to have to make the finals. no even fair to expect that of him.

Nick Nurse did it. Steve Kerr too?

Yes, there have been some times where there was lightning in a bottle, but odds are not in our favor.

[WaltFrazier]

You either get a young assistance coach ready for a promotion or you get someone who has been fired before.

Its not like Spo is walking in the door.

so anyone who has been fired before is not any good ? all those young coaches will get fired soon enough too. very few coaches last long.

your speaking in code sham...what vet coach are your referencing that doesn't have a job right now is really good option?

Malone? - we have no interest (rightfully so)
Mike Brown? - that would be comically bad
Taylor Jenkins - I guess he would be worth an interview but not sure he's a fit.

I know your big on JVG...I just don't see the connection with our FO. Has there been even an ounce of a rumor that a reunion would be possible?

Frank Vogel?

Don't forget Budenholzer another recent championship winner.

The thing about Bryant is he's not just a well regarded assistant who's been on other good teams, like Raptors Darko or the Nets Jordi Fernandez. Bryant is all that plus he's been with the Knicks just recently, along with stints in Utah and Cleveland. So those in the Knicks organization will have every good idea of what kind of coach he can be.

But I know it's different to take over a contender compared to tanking teams like Toronto and Brooklyn.

Edit - I'd like to see a couple of former head coaches on Bryant's bench like the guys mentioned here. Carlisle has two, Daigneault doesn't have any I don't think. But you see it a lot around the league.

[nykballa2k4]

Mike Malone is the best candidate for all of the obvious reasons (similar roster to what we have won a ring, ours is more sustainable).

[god shammgod]

But what was made very clear by this season and playoff run is that we need to play basketball like we're in 2025 and not 2005, and I support any hire that brings us into the present day NBA.

no offense but this is sort of a thing that people repeat that isn't really true. unless you think an awful lot of the coaches in the last couple of years don't coach modern basketball. because a lot of them are awfully similar to thibs and rely on a lot of the same principles.

there are legit complaints about thibs involving minutes played, his ability to forge relationships with players, giving players too much freedom on offense, etc. but this whole can't coach "modern basketball" thing is sort of a cliche that people just say. you're really saying you want more passing or more motion off ball or want to play at a faster pace. but you need the personnel for those kind of things. we couldn't play like the pacers with our roster and put their roster in the half court and they're not too good.

i don't know what your age is but the knicks had this idea once before. they hired don nelson and they were gonna stop running the offense through ewing and make anthony mason play point forward and change how they play. it didn't last long before they realized what a mistake it was. i say all that to say this, it might just be the case that jalen brunson can only really be jalen brunson if you let him dominate the ball.

[Kampuchea]

so anyone who has been fired before is not any good ? all those young coaches will get fired soon enough too. very few coaches last long.

your speaking in code sham...what vet coach are your referencing that doesn't have a job right now is really good option?

Malone? - we have no interest (rightfully so)
Mike Brown? - that would be comically bad
Taylor Jenkins - I guess he would be worth an interview but not sure he's a fit.

I know your big on JVG...I just don't see the connection with our FO. Has there been even an ounce of a rumor that a reunion would be possible?

Frank Vogel?

Don't forget Budenholzer another recent championship winner.

Not sure why he’s not in the conversation. Made a name for himself by doing a great job in Atlanta and went to Milwaukee to win a championship. The Suns didn’t go well but they aren’t any better without him. That’s a bad roster construction.

I’d have Bud higher than Kidd.

[NiceLikeChrist]

Mavs keep doing us favor. Thanks for saving us from a dumb decision. Just go get the Bryant fellow

[mpharris36]

so anyone who has been fired before is not any good ? all those young coaches will get fired soon enough too. very few coaches last long.

your speaking in code sham...what vet coach are your referencing that doesn't have a job right now is really good option?

Malone? - we have no interest (rightfully so)
Mike Brown? - that would be comically bad
Taylor Jenkins - I guess he would be worth an interview but not sure he's a fit.

I know your big on JVG...I just don't see the connection with our FO. Has there been even an ounce of a rumor that a reunion would be possible?

Frank Vogel?

i'm arguing against the idea that a complete unknown is better than someone we know is at least good. you're saying a guy who might be great but also might be terrible is a better choice than someone we know is at least competent. we're trying to win a championship. there's not a lot of time to develop a coach.

and i don't know the name. it's their job to find the guy, not mine. they fired someone who was competent. they better find someone else who is. maybe you should have figured this out first before firing thibs.

Maybe that is exactly what they are doing a "coaching search" which is good.

Listen they evaluated Thibs at the end of the year and for a multitude of reasons (some we know and some we don't). They decided to move on. They clearly felt he had his limitations whether that be adjustments/flexibility that he refused. His own player legit had to come to him to suggest a lineup change that the FO was pushing. That is simply unacceptable. He refused to tap into a 5-out lineup when he had the roster to do it. Thats on thibs and he refused.

As far as the new coach. Who knows...but this idea you are ruling out a first time HC because "he may not be good" isn't good logic in my eyes. Every HC has to start somewhere unless you gift a former player a HC position like Kidd got where he didn't have to work his way up.

Daigneault was a no name before OKC took off
Mazzula was a no name before he got the BOS job

Everyone was clowning Riley for handing over the reigns to Spo...

And sure there are rookie HC failures just like there are failures of HC that have been tossed around from different teams. Ultimately it will be up the FO to make the call.

But having HC experience shouldn't be a requirement in my eyes...we don't want just competent sham...that is what we just fired...we want better.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

I'd imagine the timeline for this to be done is before the draft, not that we have a pick, but if they're going to do trades you'd want the coach in place before then.

[god shammgod]

your speaking in code sham...what vet coach are your referencing that doesn't have a job right now is really good option?

Malone? - we have no interest (rightfully so)
Mike Brown? - that would be comically bad
Taylor Jenkins - I guess he would be worth an interview but not sure he's a fit.

I know your big on JVG...I just don't see the connection with our FO. Has there been even an ounce of a rumor that a reunion would be possible?

Frank Vogel?

i'm arguing against the idea that a complete unknown is better than someone we know is at least good. you're saying a guy who might be great but also might be terrible is a better choice than someone we know is at least competent. we're trying to win a championship. there's not a lot of time to develop a coach.

and i don't know the name. it's their job to find the guy, not mine. they fired someone who was competent. they better find someone else who is. maybe you should have figured this out first before firing thibs.

Maybe that is exactly what they are doing a "coaching search" which is good.

Listen they evaluated Thibs at the end of the year and for a multitude of reasons (some we know and some we don't). They decided to move on. They clearly felt he had his limitations whether that be adjustments/flexibility that he refused. His own player legit had to come to him to suggest a lineup change that the FO was pushing. That is simply unacceptable. He refused to tap into a 5-out lineup when he had the roster to do it. Thats on thibs and he refused.

As far as the new coach. Who knows...but this idea you are ruling out a first time HC because "he may not be good" isn't good logic in my eyes. Every HC has to start somewhere unless you gift a former player a HC position like Kidd got where he didn't have to work his way up.

Daigneault was a no name before OKC took off
Mazzula was a no name before he got the BOS job

Everyone was clowning Riley for handing over the reigns to Spo...

And sure there are rookie HC failures just like there are failures of HC that have been tossed around from different teams. Ultimately it will be up the FO to make the call.

But having HC experience shouldn't be a requirement in my eyes...we don't want just competent sham...that is what we just fired...we want better.

competent coaches can still win championships. malone did. bud did. vogel did. jj was supposed to be one of these young geniuses and he made some horrible mistakes due to inexperience in the playoffs. mazulla was a genius when the celtics had a stacked deck of talent but when the the odds were a lot more even he got outcoached by thibs. it's not as black and white as it's often made on here.

[Kampuchea]

your speaking in code sham...what vet coach are your referencing that doesn't have a job right now is really good option?

Malone? - we have no interest (rightfully so)
Mike Brown? - that would be comically bad
Taylor Jenkins - I guess he would be worth an interview but not sure he's a fit.

I know your big on JVG...I just don't see the connection with our FO. Has there been even an ounce of a rumor that a reunion would be possible?

Frank Vogel?

i'm arguing against the idea that a complete unknown is better than someone we know is at least good. you're saying a guy who might be great but also might be terrible is a better choice than someone we know is at least competent. we're trying to win a championship. there's not a lot of time to develop a coach.

and i don't know the name. it's their job to find the guy, not mine. they fired someone who was competent. they better find someone else who is. maybe you should have figured this out first before firing thibs.

Maybe that is exactly what they are doing a "coaching search" which is good.

Listen they evaluated Thibs at the end of the year and for a multitude of reasons (some we know and some we don't). They decided to move on. They clearly felt he had his limitations whether that be adjustments/flexibility that he refused. His own player legit had to come to him to suggest a lineup change that the FO was pushing. That is simply unacceptable. He refused to tap into a 5-out lineup when he had the roster to do it. Thats on thibs and he refused.

As far as the new coach. Who knows...but this idea you are ruling out a first time HC because "he may not be good" isn't good logic in my eyes. Every HC has to start somewhere unless you gift a former player a HC position like Kidd got where he didn't have to work his way up.

Daigneault was a no name before OKC took off
Mazzula was a no name before he got the BOS job

Everyone was clowning Riley for handing over the reigns to Spo...

And sure there are rookie HC failures just like there are failures of HC that have been tossed around from different teams. Ultimately it will be up the FO to make the call.

But having HC experience shouldn't be a requirement in my eyes...we don't want just competent sham...that is what we just fired...we want better.

Thibs is much better than “competent” and the results back that up.

That said I’m looking at Bryant and Bud as my top choices assuming Spo and Ime aren’t available which they shouldn’t be. Kidd seems more like a move to appease players, not to win a title.

[bballoctober]

Rebuild takes 4 years then championship window stay open for 4 years. So it’s a 8 years or less journey to go from 0 to a 100.

[HEZI]

But what was made very clear by this season and playoff run is that we need to play basketball like we're in 2025 and not 2005, and I support any hire that brings us into the present day NBA.

no offense but this is sort of a thing that people repeat that isn't really true. unless you think an awful lot of the coaches in the last couple of years don't coach modern basketball. because a lot of them are awfully similar to thibs and rely on a lot of the same principles.

there are legit complaints about thibs involving minutes played, his ability to forge relationships with players, giving players too much freedom on offense, etc. but this whole can't coach "modern basketball" thing is sort of a cliche that people just say. you're really saying you want more passing or more motion off ball or want to play at a faster pace. but you need the personnel for those kind of things. we couldn't play like the pacers with our roster and put their roster in the half court and they're not too good.

i don't know what your age is but the knicks had this idea once before. they hired don nelson and they were gonna stop running the offense through ewing and make anthony mason play point forward and change how they play. it didn't last long before they realized what a mistake it was. i say all that to say this, it might just be the case that jalen brunson can only really be jalen brunson if you let him dominate the ball.

Also another thing is, what does it say about all those other modern day coaches who lost to the Knicks? Let’s not pretend like we haven’t been winning 50+ games, getting 3rd seed and making it to the ECF while eliminating the defending champs who oh by the way play as modern of an offense as there is with the high volume of chuck and duck 3s they attempt.

Our offense brought balance but it’s not outdated. It’s become a copy cat league where everybody is now using analytics to play the same exact way but at the end of the day what wins is consistency. If your players bring consistency you will find success. Boston and Cleveland both shot themselves out of the series and then we did the same. We didn’t bring the same consistency offensively as Indiana and it had nothing to do with style but more to do with us not shooting well. Both KAT and Brunson shot terrible in game 6. Had nothing to do with offensive style or system when they both had success all year long. We have seen everybody have success in the system but what they failed to bring was consistency at least enough of it to overcome Indiana.

[whocares1]

But what was made very clear by this season and playoff run is that we need to play basketball like we're in 2025 and not 2005, and I support any hire that brings us into the present day NBA.

no offense but this is sort of a thing that people repeat that isn't really true. unless you think an awful lot of the coaches in the last couple of years don't coach modern basketball. because a lot of them are awfully similar to thibs and rely on a lot of the same principles.

there are legit complaints about thibs involving minutes played, his ability to forge relationships with players, giving players too much freedom on offense, etc. but this whole can't coach "modern basketball" thing is sort of a cliche that people just say. you're really saying you want more passing or more motion off ball or want to play at a faster pace. but you need the personnel for those kind of things. we couldn't play like the pacers with our roster and put their roster in the half court and they're not too good.

i don't know what your age is but the knicks had this idea once before. they hired don nelson and they were gonna stop running the offense through ewing and make anthony mason play point forward and change how they play. it didn't last long before they realized what a mistake it was. i say all that to say this, it might just be the case that jalen brunson can only really be jalen brunson if you let him dominate the ball.

I get what you’re saying but there has to be a coach that the Knicks can get that will at least try a 5 out lineup for a decent portion of the game. There has to be a coach that looks at the lack of touches from Towns in general and thinks that hey maybe we should draw a play here to give him the ball.

There HAS to be a coach who can draw up a play off a timeout or someone that runs something other than “Brunson save us” for the last 9 minutes of every game.