Official Knicks Coaching Search Thread

[FrozenEnvelope]

So Leon has been shut down by Houston and Dallas for Udoka and Kidd. I guess he will ask Minnesota for permission to speak with Fitch next and then pivot to Bryant, Brown, Walton and Nori.

[god shammgod]

But what was made very clear by this season and playoff run is that we need to play basketball like we're in 2025 and not 2005, and I support any hire that brings us into the present day NBA.

no offense but this is sort of a thing that people repeat that isn't really true. unless you think an awful lot of the coaches in the last couple of years don't coach modern basketball. because a lot of them are awfully similar to thibs and rely on a lot of the same principles.

there are legit complaints about thibs involving minutes played, his ability to forge relationships with players, giving players too much freedom on offense, etc. but this whole can't coach "modern basketball" thing is sort of a cliche that people just say. you're really saying you want more passing or more motion off ball or want to play at a faster pace. but you need the personnel for those kind of things. we couldn't play like the pacers with our roster and put their roster in the half court and they're not too good.

i don't know what your age is but the knicks had this idea once before. they hired don nelson and they were gonna stop running the offense through ewing and make anthony mason play point forward and change how they play. it didn't last long before they realized what a mistake it was. i say all that to say this, it might just be the case that jalen brunson can only really be jalen brunson if you let him dominate the ball.

Also another thing is, what does it say about all those other modern day coaches who lost to the Knicks? Let’s not pretend like we haven’t been winning 50+ games, getting 3rd seed and making it to the ECF while eliminating the defending champs who oh by the way play as modern of an offense as there is with the high volume of chuck and duck 3s they attempt.

Our offense brought balance but it’s not outdated. It’s become a copy cat league where everybody is now using analytics to play the same exact way but at the end of the day what wins is consistency. If your players bring consistency you will find success. Boston and Cleveland both shot themselves out of the series and then we did the same. We didn’t bring the same consistency offensively as Indiana and it had nothing to do with style but more to do with us not shooting well. Both KAT and Brunson shot terrible in game 6. Had nothing to do with offensive style or system when they both had success all year long. We have seen everybody have success in the system but what they failed to bring was consistency at least enough of it to overcome Indiana.

not to mention og couldn't really shoot the 3 all series

[mpharris36]

i'm arguing against the idea that a complete unknown is better than someone we know is at least good. you're saying a guy who might be great but also might be terrible is a better choice than someone we know is at least competent. we're trying to win a championship. there's not a lot of time to develop a coach.

and i don't know the name. it's their job to find the guy, not mine. they fired someone who was competent. they better find someone else who is. maybe you should have figured this out first before firing thibs.

Maybe that is exactly what they are doing a "coaching search" which is good.

Listen they evaluated Thibs at the end of the year and for a multitude of reasons (some we know and some we don't). They decided to move on. They clearly felt he had his limitations whether that be adjustments/flexibility that he refused. His own player legit had to come to him to suggest a lineup change that the FO was pushing. That is simply unacceptable. He refused to tap into a 5-out lineup when he had the roster to do it. Thats on thibs and he refused.

As far as the new coach. Who knows...but this idea you are ruling out a first time HC because "he may not be good" isn't good logic in my eyes. Every HC has to start somewhere unless you gift a former player a HC position like Kidd got where he didn't have to work his way up.

Daigneault was a no name before OKC took off
Mazzula was a no name before he got the BOS job

Everyone was clowning Riley for handing over the reigns to Spo...

And sure there are rookie HC failures just like there are failures of HC that have been tossed around from different teams. Ultimately it will be up the FO to make the call.

But having HC experience shouldn't be a requirement in my eyes...we don't want just competent sham...that is what we just fired...we want better.

Thibs is much better than “competent” and the results back that up.

That said I’m looking at Bryant and Bud as my top choices assuming Spo and Ime aren’t available which they shouldn’t be. Kidd seems more like a move to appease players, not to win a title.

Thibs is a floor raiser...not someone that is a ceiling buster. Your going to get effort, competitiveness, hard work in terms of telling guys what each opposing players strengths and weaknesses are.

What you aren't going to get is adjustments (especially in game), creativity, out of the box thinking.

Listen it sounded like they left it up to the players and the players were frustrated with Thibs outside of basically Brunson and Hart. But Brunson also isn't going to blame game anyone that just isn't his personality.

Read on Twitter

this is what got him fired...

[thebuzzardman]

But what was made very clear by this season and playoff run is that we need to play basketball like we're in 2025 and not 2005, and I support any hire that brings us into the present day NBA.

no offense but this is sort of a thing that people repeat that isn't really true. unless you think an awful lot of the coaches in the last couple of years don't coach modern basketball. because a lot of them are awfully similar to thibs and rely on a lot of the same principles.

there are legit complaints about thibs involving minutes played, his ability to forge relationships with players, giving players too much freedom on offense, etc. but this whole can't coach "modern basketball" thing is sort of a cliche that people just say. you're really saying you want more passing or more motion off ball or want to play at a faster pace. but you need the personnel for those kind of things. we couldn't play like the pacers with our roster and put their roster in the half court and they're not too good.

i don't know what your age is but the knicks had this idea once before. they hired don nelson and they were gonna stop running the offense through ewing and make anthony mason play point forward and change how they play. it didn't last long before they realized what a mistake it was. i say all that to say this, it might just be the case that jalen brunson can only really be jalen brunson if you let him dominate the ball.

Also another thing is, what does it say about all those other modern day coaches who lost to the Knicks? Let’s not pretend like we haven’t been winning 50+ games, getting 3rd seed and making it to the ECF while eliminating the defending champs who oh by the way play as modern of an offense as there is with the high volume of chuck and duck 3s they attempt.

Our offense brought balance but it’s not outdated. It’s become a copy cat league where everybody is now using analytics to play the same exact way but at the end of the day what wins is consistency. If your players bring consistency you will find success. Boston and Cleveland both shot themselves out of the series and then we did the same. We didn’t bring the same consistency offensively as Indiana and it had nothing to do with style but more to do with us not shooting well. Both KAT and Brunson shot terrible in game 6. Had nothing to do with offensive style or system when they both had success all year long. We have seen everybody have success in the system but what they failed to bring was consistency at least enough of it to overcome Indiana.

If KP was healthy the Celts sweep the Knicks.

[god shammgod]

But what was made very clear by this season and playoff run is that we need to play basketball like we're in 2025 and not 2005, and I support any hire that brings us into the present day NBA.

no offense but this is sort of a thing that people repeat that isn't really true. unless you think an awful lot of the coaches in the last couple of years don't coach modern basketball. because a lot of them are awfully similar to thibs and rely on a lot of the same principles.

there are legit complaints about thibs involving minutes played, his ability to forge relationships with players, giving players too much freedom on offense, etc. but this whole can't coach "modern basketball" thing is sort of a cliche that people just say. you're really saying you want more passing or more motion off ball or want to play at a faster pace. but you need the personnel for those kind of things. we couldn't play like the pacers with our roster and put their roster in the half court and they're not too good.

i don't know what your age is but the knicks had this idea once before. they hired don nelson and they were gonna stop running the offense through ewing and make anthony mason play point forward and change how they play. it didn't last long before they realized what a mistake it was. i say all that to say this, it might just be the case that jalen brunson can only really be jalen brunson if you let him dominate the ball.

I get what you’re saying but there has to be a coach that the Knicks can get that will at least try a 5 out lineup for a decent portion of the game. There has to be a coach that looks at the lack of touches from Towns in general and thinks that hey maybe we should draw a play here to give him the ball.

There HAS to be a coach who can draw up a play off a timeout or someone that runs something other than “Brunson save us” for the last 9 minutes of every game.

the only 5 out lineup they can run would be duece instead of hart which doesn't solve the defensive issues and makes the backcourt awfully small. towns touches were pretty much the same as he got with the timberwolves. and brunson save us works a lot more often than it doesn't.

[mpharris36]

we were a cam payne prayer 4th qtr of game 1 against the pistons that could have ended this season very differently. And yes that didn't happen but the point is the lineup that Thibs forced down our throughts for like the most minutes in history and playoffs was no clicking. He basically refused to make an adjustment from like late Dec/Jan on when teams adjusted to us.

Whoever the new coach is needs to be adaptable working with the FO. The Thibs relationship seemed to be you get the players that I like and I will coach....they want more collaboration and relationships with the FO/Coach/Players.

[mpharris36]

no offense but this is sort of a thing that people repeat that isn't really true. unless you think an awful lot of the coaches in the last couple of years don't coach modern basketball. because a lot of them are awfully similar to thibs and rely on a lot of the same principles.

there are legit complaints about thibs involving minutes played, his ability to forge relationships with players, giving players too much freedom on offense, etc. but this whole can't coach "modern basketball" thing is sort of a cliche that people just say. you're really saying you want more passing or more motion off ball or want to play at a faster pace. but you need the personnel for those kind of things. we couldn't play like the pacers with our roster and put their roster in the half court and they're not too good.

i don't know what your age is but the knicks had this idea once before. they hired don nelson and they were gonna stop running the offense through ewing and make anthony mason play point forward and change how they play. it didn't last long before they realized what a mistake it was. i say all that to say this, it might just be the case that jalen brunson can only really be jalen brunson if you let him dominate the ball.

I get what you’re saying but there has to be a coach that the Knicks can get that will at least try a 5 out lineup for a decent portion of the game. There has to be a coach that looks at the lack of touches from Towns in general and thinks that hey maybe we should draw a play here to give him the ball.

There HAS to be a coach who can draw up a play off a timeout or someone that runs something other than “Brunson save us” for the last 9 minutes of every game.

the only 5 out lineup they can run would be duece instead of hart which doesn't solve the defensive issues and makes the backcourt awfully small. towns touches were pretty much the same as he got with the timberwolves. and brunson save us works a lot more often than it doesn't.

disagree a little with that comment...Deuce is by far our best POA defender...that shift Mikal more off ball which he is better. That would help the defense.

[god shammgod]

I get what you’re saying but there has to be a coach that the Knicks can get that will at least try a 5 out lineup for a decent portion of the game. There has to be a coach that looks at the lack of touches from Towns in general and thinks that hey maybe we should draw a play here to give him the ball.

There HAS to be a coach who can draw up a play off a timeout or someone that runs something other than “Brunson save us” for the last 9 minutes of every game.

the only 5 out lineup they can run would be duece instead of hart which doesn't solve the defensive issues and makes the backcourt awfully small. towns touches were pretty much the same as he got with the timberwolves. and brunson save us works a lot more often than it doesn't.

disagree a little with that comment...Deuce is by far our best POA defender...that shift Mikal more off ball which he is better. That would help the defense.

i'm not sure there's any lineup that works with towns at center and jalen in it defensively.

[god shammgod]

we were a cam payne prayer 4th qtr of game 1 against the pistons that could have ended this season very differently. And yes that didn't happen but the point is the lineup that Thibs forced down our throughts for like the most minutes in history and playoffs was no clicking. He basically refused to make an adjustment from like late Dec/Jan on when teams adjusted to us.

Whoever the new coach is needs to be adaptable working with the FO. The Thibs relationship seemed to be you get the players that I like and I will coach....they want more collaboration and relationships with the FO/Coach/Players.

and the pacers hali prayer in game 1 is probably the only reason they're in the finals instead of us. these things happen.

[TheGreenArrow]

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=W09F6FrMDfp5_y1gKYgF1g

Kidd was using us and is angling for an extension!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[FrozenEnvelope]

No Micah Nori fans? They call him the Ted Lasso of the NBA.

https://youtu.be/vb45mdQxMf8?si=yK1pIA_DHxEB4E95

[god shammgod]

let me be clear. i'm fine they moved on from thibs. i just have no idea what bryant is gonna be and he doesn't appear to be a cut and dry choice for them because they seem willing to give up an asset for an already employed coach. and they don't have a lot of those. i think the lack of clear obvious get-able choices is a little disturbing. i don't know if there's really a plan here in place.

[mpharris36]

the only 5 out lineup they can run would be duece instead of hart which doesn't solve the defensive issues and makes the backcourt awfully small. towns touches were pretty much the same as he got with the timberwolves. and brunson save us works a lot more often than it doesn't.

disagree a little with that comment...Deuce is by far our best POA defender...that shift Mikal more off ball which he is better. That would help the defense.

i'm not sure there's any lineup that works with towns at center and jalen in it defensively.

There is obviously validity to that statement. But your OFF rating can still clear there defensive rating with that lineup if you force teams into certain choices. They didn't have to make a choice by sagging off Hart with there rim protector and putting a small on KAT neutralized his volume 3 pt shooting.

So yes Brunson/KAT defensively if that is the combo going forward will always be a challenge to build a top 10ish defense around...but if we are so elite offensively...like we were earlier in the year when teams didn't adjust to putting there center on Hart.

Also defensively...you can run more zone (which THibs would never).

The key is not trying to hide Brunson/KAT defensively all the time if you are outscoring teams it wont matter.

Watch on YouTube

this is a great 10 minute breakdown...I don't know if you watched it or not.

[mpharris36]

we were a cam payne prayer 4th qtr of game 1 against the pistons that could have ended this season very differently. And yes that didn't happen but the point is the lineup that Thibs forced down our throughts for like the most minutes in history and playoffs was no clicking. He basically refused to make an adjustment from like late Dec/Jan on when teams adjusted to us.

Whoever the new coach is needs to be adaptable working with the FO. The Thibs relationship seemed to be you get the players that I like and I will coach....they want more collaboration and relationships with the FO/Coach/Players.

and the pacers hali prayer in game 1 is probably the only reason they're in the finals instead of us. these things happen.

you know that is completely different man.

we choked away a game by giving up 7 3's in the last 4 minutes of the game (6 to one singular player!!!). We were down like 10 to the pistons and a bench player went crazy.

If anything choking away game 1 vs the pacers should be another notch on thibs firing...it was a disaster end of the game coaching experience. Not calling a timeout for over 3 minutes when we were blowing the game and giving up open 3's is malpractice...thanks for reminding me why firing thibs was the right call.

[HEZI]

no offense but this is sort of a thing that people repeat that isn't really true. unless you think an awful lot of the coaches in the last couple of years don't coach modern basketball. because a lot of them are awfully similar to thibs and rely on a lot of the same principles.

there are legit complaints about thibs involving minutes played, his ability to forge relationships with players, giving players too much freedom on offense, etc. but this whole can't coach "modern basketball" thing is sort of a cliche that people just say. you're really saying you want more passing or more motion off ball or want to play at a faster pace. but you need the personnel for those kind of things. we couldn't play like the pacers with our roster and put their roster in the half court and they're not too good.

i don't know what your age is but the knicks had this idea once before. they hired don nelson and they were gonna stop running the offense through ewing and make anthony mason play point forward and change how they play. it didn't last long before they realized what a mistake it was. i say all that to say this, it might just be the case that jalen brunson can only really be jalen brunson if you let him dominate the ball.

Also another thing is, what does it say about all those other modern day coaches who lost to the Knicks? Let’s not pretend like we haven’t been winning 50+ games, getting 3rd seed and making it to the ECF while eliminating the defending champs who oh by the way play as modern of an offense as there is with the high volume of chuck and duck 3s they attempt.

Our offense brought balance but it’s not outdated. It’s become a copy cat league where everybody is now using analytics to play the same exact way but at the end of the day what wins is consistency. If your players bring consistency you will find success. Boston and Cleveland both shot themselves out of the series and then we did the same. We didn’t bring the same consistency offensively as Indiana and it had nothing to do with style but more to do with us not shooting well. Both KAT and Brunson shot terrible in game 6. Had nothing to do with offensive style or system when they both had success all year long. We have seen everybody have success in the system but what they failed to bring was consistency at least enough of it to overcome Indiana.

If KP was healthy the Celts sweep the Knicks.

Which would make it a talent issue not a coaching issue

[mpharris36]

i'm arguing against the idea that a complete unknown is better than someone we know is at least good. you're saying a guy who might be great but also might be terrible is a better choice than someone we know is at least competent. we're trying to win a championship. there's not a lot of time to develop a coach.

and i don't know the name. it's their job to find the guy, not mine. they fired someone who was competent. they better find someone else who is. maybe you should have figured this out first before firing thibs.

Maybe that is exactly what they are doing a "coaching search" which is good.

Listen they evaluated Thibs at the end of the year and for a multitude of reasons (some we know and some we don't). They decided to move on. They clearly felt he had his limitations whether that be adjustments/flexibility that he refused. His own player legit had to come to him to suggest a lineup change that the FO was pushing. That is simply unacceptable. He refused to tap into a 5-out lineup when he had the roster to do it. Thats on thibs and he refused.

As far as the new coach. Who knows...but this idea you are ruling out a first time HC because "he may not be good" isn't good logic in my eyes. Every HC has to start somewhere unless you gift a former player a HC position like Kidd got where he didn't have to work his way up.

Daigneault was a no name before OKC took off
Mazzula was a no name before he got the BOS job

Everyone was clowning Riley for handing over the reigns to Spo...

And sure there are rookie HC failures just like there are failures of HC that have been tossed around from different teams. Ultimately it will be up the FO to make the call.

But having HC experience shouldn't be a requirement in my eyes...we don't want just competent sham...that is what we just fired...we want better.

competent coaches can still win championships. malone did. bud did. vogel did. jj was supposed to be one of these young geniuses and he made some horrible mistakes due to inexperience in the playoffs. mazulla was a genius when the celtics had a stacked deck of talent but when the the odds were a lot more even he got outcoached by thibs. it's not as black and white as it's often made on here.

listen at the end of the day its a players league. Jokic win a championship because he was the best player in the NBA. Giannis won because he was the best player at the time. I don't think we will ever have that luxury of simply have the best player in the NBA even with how good brunson is.

Vogel won a bubble championship...that **** doesn't count to me.

So yes players outweigh coaches, we agree there...but coaches can still help on the margins...in games with specific adjustments. In the playoffs games are won/lossed on the margins. That is both on players and coaches.

[Adelheid]

knicks providing good exposure for all these available and occupied coaches and their respective representations; most likely, they already have their man at their grasp

[Capn'O]

A difference between now and Nelson is Nelson tried to mix it up with a roster Riley had clearly optimized. That was true of previous Thibs teams. He was the perfect coach last year, for example. Nelson was clearly a bad fit as Ewing was too banged up to play up tempo by that point and Nelson didn't respect what Ewing brought. In this case, we switched up personnel and this group doesn't really fit Thibs anymore.

We saw some stuff from Brunson in the Indiana series that showed he might have additional tricks up his sleeve. More lobs and off ball sets. We don't have the personnel to become the Warriors but we do for more multi action sets and off ball movements in the halfcourt. I also doubt we need to be the slowest team in the league every year. Management clearly got this personnel thinking we could move towards a different type of offense. If they didn't, they wouldn't have fired Thibs.

[Capn'O]

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=W09F6FrMDfp5_y1gKYgF1g

Kidd was using us and is angling for an extension!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That's what I said.

viewtopic.php?f=24&t=2462484&start=40#p118876858

We were fine to play along too.

[Besart19]

no offense but this is sort of a thing that people repeat that isn't really true. unless you think an awful lot of the coaches in the last couple of years don't coach modern basketball. because a lot of them are awfully similar to thibs and rely on a lot of the same principles.

there are legit complaints about thibs involving minutes played, his ability to forge relationships with players, giving players too much freedom on offense, etc. but this whole can't coach "modern basketball" thing is sort of a cliche that people just say. you're really saying you want more passing or more motion off ball or want to play at a faster pace. but you need the personnel for those kind of things. we couldn't play like the pacers with our roster and put their roster in the half court and they're not too good.

i don't know what your age is but the knicks had this idea once before. they hired don nelson and they were gonna stop running the offense through ewing and make anthony mason play point forward and change how they play. it didn't last long before they realized what a mistake it was. i say all that to say this, it might just be the case that jalen brunson can only really be jalen brunson if you let him dominate the ball.

I get what you’re saying but there has to be a coach that the Knicks can get that will at least try a 5 out lineup for a decent portion of the game. There has to be a coach that looks at the lack of touches from Towns in general and thinks that hey maybe we should draw a play here to give him the ball.

There HAS to be a coach who can draw up a play off a timeout or someone that runs something other than “Brunson save us” for the last 9 minutes of every game.

the only 5 out lineup they can run would be duece instead of hart which doesn't solve the defensive issues and makes the backcourt awfully small. towns touches were pretty much the same as he got with the timberwolves. and brunson save us works a lot more often than it doesn't.

Brunson
McBride
Anunoby
Achiuwa
Towns