Offseason 2025 Thread

[Liver_Pooty]

"Secondary playmakers" doesn't mean you need another player on the team that is a high assist guy, or even that your main guy is a high assist guy like Hali. It's more of a team mentality. The results that happen when you have multiple high IQ non-selfish players. They're, collectively, the secondary playmaker.

OKC doesn't have a high assist guy. SGA only averages 6.5 assists per game. Boston doesn't have a high assist guy. Tatum only averages 6 per game.

Melo is a Hali level passer. This team, however, has very few players like Siakam, or McConnell, or Nembard.

Besides Miller and Grant, we may actually have none of those types of players. Keep the ball moving, shoot, pass, don't be selfish.

Our roster is full of 1-way players (all-offense guards like Mann, all-defense guards like Okogie) players that as of now may as well be no-way players (Salaun) and maybe two/three others who may be useful on a team like Indy, even if they don't fit the exact mold (Miles/Mann/Mark).

We need to replace 5+ players on this team this offseason. Hopefully Peterson and Lee know what they're doing. Whether it's a rebuild/retool or an attempt to make the playoffs.

Id love to have one more all defense guy like Okogie like OKC has in Caruso and especially Dort who is built like a mid 80s linebacker for the Green Bay Packers.

[JMAC3]

"Secondary playmakers" doesn't mean you need another player on the team that is a high assist guy, or even that your main guy is a high assist guy like Hali. It's more of a team mentality. The results that happen when you have multiple high IQ non-selfish players. They're, collectively, the secondary playmaker.

OKC doesn't have a high assist guy. SGA only averages 6.5 assists per game. Boston doesn't have a high assist guy. Tatum only averages 6 per game.

Melo is a Hali level passer. This team, however, has very few players like Siakam, or McConnell, or Nembard.

Besides Miller and Grant, we may actually have none of those types of players. Keep the ball moving, shoot, pass, don't be selfish.

Our roster is full of 1-way players (all-offense guards like Mann, all-defense guards like Okogie) players that as of now may as well be no-way players (Salaun) and maybe two/three others who may be useful on a team like Indy, even if they don't fit the exact mold (Miles/Mann/Mark).

We need to replace 5+ players on this team this offseason. Hopefully Peterson and Lee know what they're doing. Whether it's a rebuild/retool or an attempt to make the playoffs.

Miles Bridges averaged 3.9 assists last year
Brandon Miller averaged 3.6 assists last year
Tre Mann averaged 5.2 assists the 2nd half of his first yr with us.

Although over the last few years we traded away
Rozier, Martin, Hayward and Micic who were all good playmakers.

[SWedd523]

Hopefully "Hornets DNA" means smart, high IQ, knows how to play etc. and not just "They try really hard."

[fatlever]

We have a lot of guys that can get assist numbers because they hold on to the ball. The team is full of guys that when the ball hits the hands their first instinct is to ISO hold on to the ball, dribble the ball, bounce the ball, size up their Defender, look for their own shot and then passes like the 5th or 6th option in their head.

We have very few guys that I would consider connectors. Unselfish ball movers.

That being said, I think that is equally a coaching issue.

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[fatlever]

We have a lot of guys that can get assist numbers because they hold on to the ball. The team is full of guys that when the ball hits the hands their first instinct is to ISO hold on to the ball, dribble the ball, bounce the ball, size up their Defender, look for their own shot and then passes like the 5th or 6th option in their head.

We have very few guys that I would consider connectors. Unselfish ball movers.

That being said, I think that is equally a coaching issue.

Sent from my SM-G973U using RealGM mobile app

the numbers arent as bad as i expected

ast %
passes per game - went from 300/gm under jb in 21-22 to 284 last yr. for reference, pacers at 330/gm
iso freq

not great, mostly middle of league to bottom 5 in most, not bottom 5 in all

2nd in pnr freq tho - 21% of possessions

[fatlever]

bottom 5 in
- post up
- cuts
- transition
- spot up

[MPM]

bottom 5 in
- post up
- cuts
- transition
- spot up

Lack of cutting drives me crazy.

[fatlever]

bottom 5 in
- post up
- cuts
- transition
- spot up

Lack of cutting drives me crazy.

system last year was clear
- slow pace
- top of key pnr, try to drive at 2 defenders to create imbalance
- dribble handoffs
- static motions with pnr and 3 shooters behind 3
- melo league high usage
- spam 3pt line

kind of offense you install in aau team

[fatlever]

Watch on YouTube

;t=1109s

[MasterIchiro]

Health is the number one factor and while questions swirl, the fact is none of the players who missed time this season have career-threatening injuries, full stop.

However, because of injury concerns, their value decreased, and due to 3 consecutive seasons lost to injury, losses further deflate the value of core players.

Coming off injuries and losses just set a bad precedent for trade value. Mark Williams finished the season strong and still lost value due to the rescind.

So how can you sell low on Mark or anyone or how can you abandon ship when a player does not have a career threatening injury?

Nobody can compel me to change my stance on selling low. It's not justified. It's a panic move.

We didn't sell Mark cheap. The return was strong. So why would anyone suggest we'd sell a better player in LaMelo cheap? Or why would we lower our standards selling LaMelo if we clearly didn't lower our standards selling a lesser player in Mark?

All that said. It's pretty clear Hornets should hold their best players and use surplus draft capital to upgrade their worst players.

But that's not sexy for fans of other teams looking to get better off our best players with discount bids, or lowball notions.

I'm kind of sick of the vultures and the defeatism about the players we've developed like LaMelo who could be truly special, and Miller who could become a number 1 scoring option.

I feel like media has steered us into contemplating subtractions of real talent and just reinforced the toxic defeatism that is pervasive in a small market fanbase.

I hate my life as a fan so give me street credit for suffering through it all, or I will complain louder until you hear my grievances and appreciate my loyalty.

Boo **** hoo.

No realizing or counting losses here. We won the Mark trade, thus the Lakers canceled it and erased their defeat in real time.

When is the last trade we lost big?

When?

Even Batum (total trainwreck and toxic asset) only cost Noah Vonleh.

No reason to risk losing big now as they build the roster and ADD to LaMelo and Miller, not subtract and sell low because Lakers jack asses say so and somehow get credited with fixing the market for Charlotte.

Just **** you and buzz off our team, twerps.

Start by adding a vet who can run the team on the floor. Get Jrue.

Draft someone who can score buckets and has a high floor and who won't bust consecutive drafts after the Salaün tragedy.

So get me Tre Johnson. Give him 3 years under a team led by Jrue and juiced by LaMelo and Miller who could stay healthy.

Then you still have surplus draft capital for upgrades using inconsequential players who have a very short future here: Nurkic, Green, Grant Williams, Okogie. Teams don't want those contracts but that's what the surplus draft capital is for. That's what they're trading for.

It's just that your podcast won't generate clicks if the topic is Nurkic and company.

And for God sakes use the MLE on a vet who complements Jrue and who adds some of the things Charlotte is missing in addition to primary/secondary playmaking and DPOY caliber defense.

[wilson115]

No one wants to trade Mark per se. The problem is his upcoming extension and the perception this FO's trying to get out of having to pay for it.
So does this FO:
a. pay to extend right away despite Mark's injury history and the possibility he's long-term hampered somehow?
b. put it off till next year and risk having Mark sign an offer sheet?
c. don't bother with the drama and try to get a trade done on draft night
d. wait a bit and see how free agency shakes out before jumping in with a trade proposal
e. wait until Mark raises his value through December enough to ship him out before the all-star break

[Diop]

the other thing with the Mark story is that we don't know if there is drama outside of the media people trying to find something to talk about.
there could have been plenty of communication that has made this drama free now.

[Man Strength]

I’m pro trading Mark, but what’s less clear to me is how we get a replacement.
-Nurk is not a rotation level player unless you are trying to tank again.
-Diabate is a solid bench C.
-Imho it would be a reach to draft a center anyways in the lottery this year
-late first early 2nd centers can’t be counted on to contribute as a rookie
-FA is limited and there will be competition for Naz Reid.
-who is available for trade and actually better than Mark? Hard to find.

So add it all up and trading mark wouid likely mean extending the tank. The only potential deal I couid see is for Porzingas. Even he wasn’t great last year.

[Diop]

I can't see a better option for Charlotte at centre apart from a fit and healthy Mark. Unless something silly like trading Bam for Ball happens.

i believe the medical report was more Lakers getting cold feet as a rookie, a future 1st and a pick swap seemed excessive. Also Lebron did go public with how he was surprised the decision was made without him being involved at all.

So for now, you keep training and developing Mark. He knows next season is big for him, he proves himself he gets paid big $.

[HornetJail]

I can't see a better option for Charlotte at centre apart from a fit and healthy Mark. Unless something silly like trading Bam for Ball happens.

i believe the medical report was more Lakers getting cold feet as a rookie, a future 1st and a pick swap seemed excessive. Also Lebron did go public with how he was surprised the decision was made without him being involved at all.

So for now, you keep training and developing Mark. He knows next season is big for him, he proves himself he gets paid big $.

this 100%

Until you have a better and healthier C in hand (and no that is not Kahman Maluach), you absolutely do not under any circumstances trade Mark. This team will be extremely unwatchable with Jusuf Nurkic starting for half the year.

[yosemiteben]

This team will be extremely unwatchable with Jusuf Nurkic starting for half the year.

Not exactly sure how this statement squares with your overall point here, since Mark only played in 44 games last season.

[SWedd523]

And they were extremely unwatchable for at least half of the year

[HornetJail]

This team will be extremely unwatchable with Jusuf Nurkic starting for half the year.

Not exactly sure how this statement squares with your overall point here, since Mark only played in 44 games last season.

and Richards started for a lot of those games.

Richards, who was terrible, was at least closer to what we need with this team than Nurkic, who is essentially a fat Plumlee at this stage in his career.

In any case, my point is you do not trade Mark without a proven replacement.

[yosemiteben]

And they were extremely unwatchable for at least half of the year

So we should keep him or else the thing that would have happened with him (someone else starting half the games) will also happen without him?

Not tracking the logic there.

[yosemiteben]

This team will be extremely unwatchable with Jusuf Nurkic starting for half the year.

Not exactly sure how this statement squares with your overall point here, since Mark only played in 44 games last season.

and Richards started for a lot of those games.

Richards, who was terrible, was at least closer to what we need with this team than Nurkic, who is essentially a fat Plumlee at this stage in his career.

In any case, my point is you do not trade Mark without a proven replacement.

I definitely agree we need a proven replacement. I think at this point we should not plan to count on Mark as being a reliable part of our rotation.

Maybe he'll get stronger and this will change, but I'm not exactly encouraged by what I saw last season in terms of how many games he missed just to try to keep him on the floor.