Windhorst: Raptors making noise around the league looking for a “big fish” // Giannis & Toronto "Mutual Interest"/KD too

[WuTang_CMB]

Milwaukee absolutely wants him to stay. He is the most beloved athlete in that city's history, and extremely involved in the community (including 2 new initiatives just since the season ended). He means more to that franchise than anything Barnes, RJ and Dick can bring LOL. No team wants to trade a guy who has been in the top 4 for MVP votes for 7 consecutive years. You never win those trades. They'll trade him if he asks out, and it WILL be to a team on his desired list. But if he doesn't ask out, they will never trade him.

Yeah he's retiring there if they had the choice. Plus ownership wants to keep for value of team. No ownership group wants to lose a player like that. Heck, Ed rogers just paid $500M to Vladdy because the fans love him and not even for his production lol

More the reason why you trade him if you want to keep the value of the team. I don’t see a Bucks franchise with no view of winning another championship be more attractive than a Bucks team that is starting a rebuild and has a championship piece like Barnes. When you buy a business you don’t buy it for the past. You buy it for the present and future.

Roger’s gave Vladdy the deal is totally an asset management play. Yes the fans played a factor, but the bigger factor was that he is 26, just had a great 2024 season and he didn’t want to lose Vladdy for nothing. If Vladdy player like crap in 2024 no way would he have gotten that deal even if he was a fan favorite. Vladdy was an overpay to retain an asset, appease the fan base and try to contend. Baseball is different from basketball, you can’t just blow up your payroll with little constrains. The Bucks need to work within the new CBA. I bet why the rumour mill is quiet is cause the Bucks need to field the best deal, but if they don’t get the best deal they don’t want to so dirty to Giannis. Masai being one of the most tight lipped GMs in the league if in the bucks trading to gauge value I would probably talk to someone like Masai just knowing that the rumour won’t spread.

Nah they aint trading him. Sports is sports. When you have real stars it generates fan interest and you will always sell tickets. Bucks will ride it out until he wants out. This is a top 3 player in the league. Vladdy is the same thing at a lesser level of player but the fans love him and he generates interest. He is not worth what they paid - everyone knows that but they did it to maintain asset yes but to also keep the fans engaged.

[sidsid]

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Dunno why they'd try to cash in for KD; even with him, they aren't ready to compete for a title.

What's now funny here is that Green is almost certainly perceived as just a bad contract.

The Rockets were hoping to have him and Sengun as salary attached to young, tradeable contracts if not part of the core and neither of them did themselves any favours with their playoff performances.

My thoughts were that they were holding out for Booker, but if he's off the table they probably don't want to go into the tax for KD, but that means they can't trade Fred for him, which is what the Suns would want, for the expiring.

Now they're probably just happy doing a Green+something and the Suns picks for KD, decline and sign Fred to a smaller deal to just clean their cap and rid themselves of Green.

[canada_dry]

Could ask for Nick Richards back in that trade. We're also not giving up #9 so could draft a big (Malauch, Sorber, Queen).

We likely become a 2nd apron team or very close to one. And that's where it becomes dumb. If we can clear the 2nd apron comfortably and just be a tax team I'm probably okay with it, but would probably still lean no. I really like KD too, just don't see the fit. Not with the guys we have, and where he is in his career.

We can't ask for Richards back because the salaries won't work with KDs 54M.

Yes it does. You can do 2 separate deals

1. KD for Barrett + Poeltl

2. Gradey/Ochai for Richards

Or I believe we still have a TE. You can absorb Richards into the TE first then do KD for Barrett + Poeltl + Dick

Richards ia NOT worth that. He sucks.

So you guys know how many times a game kd would literally yell at richards for messing up? He had everyone frustrated over there. You DONT give up dick or ochai for that level of 5. You leave richard in Phoenix and go shop for another one on the market.

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

[UnbelievablyRAW]

I see Durant going to the Spurs unless we blow the Spurs offer out of the water, simply because it seems he wants to go there. Saves money too being in Texas especially on a new deal.

I don't see Giannis leaving, I think he wants to stay in Milwaukee and just ride things out (unless Tor or another team makes an absurdly stupid trade offer mortgaging their whole franchise)

In the end, I don't see RJ actually being traded until the deadline

[Scase]

2025 looks a lot more like the rest of his career, while 2024 looks like the outlier. Playing the wait and see approach opens us up to him regressing and losing value in the eyes of other teams. He was never meant to be a permanent fixture, but rather the buy low/sell high that everyone claims the BI acquisition was. We've missed enough boats being overly patient, if something good comes up, we should be moving him.

I agree, however, the Knicks in his career were 28th, 23rd, 22nd and 3rd on offense in his career prior to the trade season... and when they were third, it wasn't from spacing (19th in 3P%, 20th in eFG%), it was from ball protection and offensive rebounding. They were an injury-riddled mess his rookie year, and Elfrid Payton was their lead guard. A year later, they were 3rd in 3P% but 27th in 3PA (and he was still camping in the corner and shooting quite well, that was a >40% 3P season for him). Then they were 30th in 2P%, 12th in 3P% and 10th in 3PA. Half a season from Kemba Walker in his 30s at the point, 26 games of bench-life Derrick Rose. Then in 2023, 19th in 3P%, and they finally got Jalen Brunson... who is good, but he's certainly no Steve Nash, he's more of a scorer.

So we haven't really seen him in a well-spaced environment, and we've only seen one full season of him alongside a lead guard of real consequence. Plus, his 2P% this year was the second-highest of his career, and the only full season (injuries notwithstanding) of him shooting 50%+ inside the arc. AND we don't use him from the corner as much as they did in New York, AND he had the 2nd-worst FT% of his career.

I think the potential is there. We'll have to see what comes of these various off-season rumors, though. Some of them would be pretty hard to resist, for sure.

IQ is likely harder to move due to his contract, but realistically we still need someone to play PG, and Shead isn't (and likely won't ever be) ready to be a starting guard in the NBA. I'd shed no tears if either of them was moved for something better.

He isn't a PG, though. He isn't a better passer than RJ, isn't a guy who drives a ton more, doesn't draw fouls better, etc, etc. He's a small scoring guard whose value to us primarily comes from ATB 3pt shooting and the fact that he applies any kind of rim pressure. He's a decent tertiary option type of guy, but he also looks pretty capped out.

I agree on both points. My view on the whole thing is, this ideal situation we'd need to have RJ in to potentially thrive, since it's an unknown, is that worth missing out on a possible good trade. Couple that with the fact that Masai has been allergic to building a team with lots of shooters, then we have to figure, is it even a realistic out come?

As for IQ, trading him and keeping RJ exacerbates the above shooting issue. IQ I have said since day 1 of his extension/re-signing was overpaid, not a crazy amount, but notable, and for the exact reasons you laid out. That said, I think by the very nature of having a ball handler that lives primarily ATB stretches defences out enough, that even though he's not a true PG, it should open up passing lanes that even an average level playmaker can get value.

Ultimately I'm not keen on either, but I feel like we can get more value out of IQ since his skills don't require much structure being built around him, ATB 3's are the structure the team needs, whereas RJ requires a lot more work on the roster to maybe reach hypothesized potential.

To me it boils down to effort input, vs the output. RJ very well could be a better player than IQ, but just requires more resources to squeeze those last drops out of.

[Kurtz]

KD to Houston for Green+ their picks back makes too much sense. Phoenix can then tank in peace and imo KD makes Houston a legit contender next year.

Spurs really shouldn't rush the rebuild. Let Wemby, Castle and Harper develop for a year, they have a dynasty cooking there if they don't make too many rash moves.

[tsherkin]

I agree on both points. My view on the whole thing is, this ideal situation we'd need to have RJ in to potentially thrive, since it's an unknown, is that worth missing out on a possible good trade. Couple that with the fact that Masai has been allergic to building a team with lots of shooters, then we have to figure, is it even a realistic out come?

I mean, like I've said a couple times, it depends on the trade. You don't treat it as if he has an NTC, of course. But it should be a really strong trade option, is all I'm saying. And we've seen two different RJs, right? And we know at least a little about how well he responds when he doesn't have to do all his own self-creation.

[NotMyKawhi]

Poeltl 9 and blazers pick for Cam 19, 26 and 27

Cam to the rockets for Dillon brooks and a 2028 1st.

Dillon brooks, RJ, Dick, ocahi, 3 2025 1st round picks. 26 swap, 27, 28 swap, 29, 30 swap, rockets 2028 1st for Giannis.

RJ, Brooks, dick, ocahi and 9 1st round picks for Giannis.

Who says no?

[navyblue]

Poeltl 9 and blazers pick for Cam 19, 26 and 27

Cam to the rockets for Dillon brooks and a 2028 1st.

Dillon brooks, RJ, Dick, ocahi, 3 2025 1st round picks. 26 swap, 27, 28 swap, 29, 30 swap, rockets 2028 1st for Giannis.

RJ, Brooks, dick, ocahi and 8 1st round picks for Giannis.

Who says no?

Raptors

[6ixpessant]

Let's be honest... NBA defense is dogpoop anyway and I actually don't really care about "his defense sucks", it's a team/scheme anyway. You can hide "bad defenders", at least until the NBA let's these guys play. There was a good first step in killing off the Harden/Luca BS. Bring the hand check back.

There are so few high level one on one defenders in the league. I'm not sure if it's how the league has evolved, or it's simply ridiculously hard because of how athletic these freaks are.

Ingram is going to be massive if the Raptors medical staff can keep him on the floor 70+ games a year (plus playoffs). We don't have Ingram's medical records, and I think the Raptors are pretty confident in being able to do that. The Pelicans are currently the worst run organization in the NBA, and maybe their medical staff is as bad as their player personel department.

Who gives a poop about "all star" selections? Fans will vote for their favourite player even if they were dead. It's probably the worst metric to measure a player's worth. Nevermind who actually watches that crap?
....

Someone started a poll a week before the BI trade asking if we preferred Zion, Ingram or neither, and Ingram finished 3rd with less than 1/5 wanting him here. Since BI has been traded here, we've gone from not wanting him to be traded here to excusing his shortcomings to be our great hope.

If our medical staff couldn't keep so many injuries from happening to all of our starters this past season, what makes you so confident we can get him to play "70+ games a year" which he's done exactly once and that was in his rookie year 9 seasons ago? It's wishful thinking.

And "pooping" about all star selection is ironic given it's one of the best things he has accomplished. Otherwise, his resume is rather meh. He has made the playoffs twice in his 9 seasons, but he is expected to lead us into the playoffs? He won MIP in 2020 and he's going to need to repeat that if he is going to do the things people are expected of him to do next season.

Not saying he isn't good but we should really tone down expectations. He's what he is, don't expect another MIP season out of him in his 10th season.

I've liked Ingram since Duke... and I'll stick with it. 99% of NBA players have shortcomings. He does have another gear, and in today's NBA, this guy could drop 28-30 a game.

As for injuries, obviously you can't save them from everything. One season of injuries isn't really a data set to go off of. The medical, sports science, training, all of that comes from the top at MLSE and it spreads across all of the teams. This organization is generally regarded as one of the best. The organization actually advanced some areas of sports science and medical that are now used by sports teams across the globe. They spend a boatload of money on this stuff.

Again, none of us know s*** about BI's medical stuff. It's none of our business. The Raptors and MLSE do their due dilligence... You're not gonna get it right every time. However, this is one of the organizations you want in this position

Have you ever actually watched a couple of dozen Pelican games? Go watch full games, my God man. You may see some of BI's "shortcomings", which he has of course, but you know they can be corrected? The Pelicans did him no favours. Maybe Michael Jordan could drag these Pelican teams to the playoffs? They're awful, and they've been constructed poorly for pretty much BI's entire time there. They are terrible top down, they have a subtle meddling owner in Benson... ownership is terrible.

Keep an open mind about the guy. We won a title with lots of players with shortcomings (FVV? Spicy?). You scheme shortcomings, that's what good teams do and it makes players better.

It's team game, individual crap doesn't matter.... all-star.. all-nba... that crap is so meaningless..You have to have a decent TEAM to make the playoffs.

[NinjaBro]

Poeltl 9 and blazers pick for Cam 19, 26 and 27

Cam to the rockets for Dillon brooks and a 2028 1st.

Dillon brooks, RJ, Dick, ocahi, 3 2025 1st round picks. 26 swap, 27, 28 swap, 29, 30 swap, rockets 2028 1st for Giannis.

RJ, Brooks, dick, ocahi and 9 1st round picks for Giannis.

Who says no?

Please delete account

[NotMyKawhi]

Poeltl 9 and blazers pick for Cam 19, 26 and 27

Cam to the rockets for Dillon brooks and a 2028 1st.

Dillon brooks, RJ, Dick, ocahi, 3 2025 1st round picks. 26 swap, 27, 28 swap, 29, 30 swap, rockets 2028 1st for Giannis.

RJ, Brooks, dick, ocahi and 8 1st round picks for Giannis.

Who says no?

Raptors

It's not as much as you think. It's Poeltl, RJ, Ocahi, Dick, 9, 26 swap, 27, 28 swap, 29.

[TimeForChange]

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[Raptors Realtor]

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That's crazy money these guys are making now.

[YogurtProducer]

That team post-Kawhi was a championship contender.

Were we? I don't think we'd get past the Heat, nor beat the Lakers. We gave Boston a tough time, particularly since Brown and Kemba couldn't hit a 3 to save their lives. But with how bad Fred was and Kyle struggling with his shot, it was kind of remarkable we held out as long as we did.

Fred sucked sufficiently as a scorer that I think we were always going to run into stuff like what happened in Game 7. And then Lowry also had a rough game because he was also a low-FG%, high-draw guy, and Pascal had a rough game, and OG and Gasol had off nights. We lacked That Guy (TM) for an authentic title run.

We probably win that Boston series if Siakam played even remotely up to his normal standards.

Siakam 19/20 regular Season: 22.9 ppg on 55.4 TS% and 28.1 USG rate
Siakam in the Boston series in the Bubble: 14.9 ppg on 43.4 TS% and 21.4 USG rate

He pretty much had the yips in the bubble. It wasn't just shooting poorly, he was our best player and acted like he was a role player in that series.

I’ve always been of the opinion of No Covid = Rsptors championship or a finals appearance

[YogurtProducer]

Poeltl 9 and blazers pick for Cam 19, 26 and 27

Cam to the rockets for Dillon brooks and a 2028 1st.

Dillon brooks, RJ, Dick, ocahi, 3 2025 1st round picks. 26 swap, 27, 28 swap, 29, 30 swap, rockets 2028 1st for Giannis.

RJ, Brooks, dick, ocahi and 8 1st round picks for Giannis.

Who says no?

Raptors

It's not as much as you think. It's Poeltl, RJ, Ocahi, Dick, 9, 26 swap, 27, 28 swap, 29.

Yeah, we’re not giving up 4 rotational players and 8 picks.

[mtcan]

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That's crazy money these guys are making now.

75 mill per for a guy that hasn't really done much in the years since getting to the finals. Paying top 15 money to a guy playing like a to 30 guy

[tsherkin]

75 mill per for a guy that hasn't really done much in the years since getting to the finals. Paying top 15 money to a guy playing like a to 30 guy

Past 4 seasons... 26.7 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 6.1 apg, 47.7 / 35.7 / 87.8, 59.4% TS, couple of All-NBA appearances (including a First Team)....

Dunno if you can say he "hasn't really done much."

The Suns have been struck with injuries. They made the Semis in 2022 and 2023. They lost in 7 to the Mavs in 2022, they lost to the eventual-champ Nuggets in 2023. They lost to the Timberwolves in 2024, who then also beat Denver and made the conference finals.

Not sure what else you can expect from the guy, he isn't a wizard. It's probably a little much, but for 2 seasons, it's not going to hamstring the franchise.

[S.W.A.N]

I see Durant going to the Spurs unless we blow the Spurs offer out of the water, simply because it seems he wants to go there. Saves money too being in Texas especially on a new deal.

I don't see Giannis leaving, I think he wants to stay in Milwaukee and just ride things out (unless Tor or another team makes an absurdly stupid trade offer mortgaging their whole franchise)

In the end, I don't see RJ actually being traded until the deadline

Very real chance you're right. And even if Giannis does leave, still more likely he ends up in Houston or somewhere else. There are going to be 25+ teams willing to sell their souls to get a Superstar.

Starting the season with IQ, RJ, BI, Scotty, Yak isn't a bad thing. I'm curious to see how they'd look together. I think RJ and IQ are big question marks on the future but they both are talented players, the question is just going to be how they fit with BI and Scotty which is now the core of our team.

[WWSRD]

Giannis deal is going to happen it's just about achieving a delicate balance.
He goes to the team he wants, they don't give up enough to not be contenders with him there, and Bucks get enough back to move him with 3 years left.

Giannis for Barnes+picks makes more sense if Toronto can cash in more assets for another legit piece.

However:
IQ
RJ
BI
Barnes
Poetl

is easily Top 4 in the east. Giannis is THAT good to make up for any defensive issues RJ/BI present. Especially with Poetl back there as well being solid AF.

On offence, more 3pt shooting would be nice, but that's still a lot of firepower. Like the offence might be ugly, but they'll get there given the 1-on-1 talent.

IF Giannis says EAST only.
IF Masai actually has some sort of relationship with him.
and IF the Bucks are Scottie fans

.....we could really be in business here.