2025 NBA FINALS: #1 Oklahoma City Thunder vs #4 Indiana Pacers (Series tied 1-1)

[JulesWinnfield]

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[MoneyTalks41890]

I know people can suffer from recency bias, but Embiid finished 2nd, 2nd, and 1st in MVP voting from 2021-2023. When healthy, he's a candidate to make the all-NBA both overall and defense since he's capable of putting up 30+ and 10+ per game. If he were healthy, the only reason not to pick him over SGA is because he is a bitch whereas SGA seems to be a fabulous teammate.

Edwards could absolutely be selected over SGA depending on the GM/franchise.

Yes but you should take health into account.

100%, and in a previous post I said you had to (both him and Kawhi). It's the same with age, which is why I didn't list Curry as a possible pick in front of SGA.

My main point here is that SGA is great, but part of his success is about team construction and system. When you remove that, I don't think he's top-3, just like I don't think Haliburton is top-10. That is what I was originally responding to.

You think Shai is a system player?

He is the system.

[MoneyTalks41890]

Can’t win giving up that kind of a lead down the stretch but the league acknowledged in L2M that the shot clock should’ve reset when Siakam got the rebound and the ball went out on the 2nd to last play, meaning OKC ball up 1 no shot clock instead of up 1 with a 14 second clock 22 total left. Likely swung the game.

[ProcessDoctor]

Phenomenal game 1. Think OKC wins today...sticking to my prediction of OKC in 6.

[SA37]

Yes but you should take health into account.

100%, and in a previous post I said you had to (both him and Kawhi). It's the same with age, which is why I didn't list Curry as a possible pick in front of SGA.

My main point here is that SGA is great, but part of his success is about team construction and system. When you remove that, I don't think he's top-3, just like I don't think Haliburton is top-10. That is what I was originally responding to.

You think Shai is a system player?

He is the system.

No, I am simply pointing out he could easily be like Anthony Edwards or Donovan Mitchell: an outstanding player on a (potentially) non-optimal team, whether we're talking from a coaching standpoint, on-court teammate standpoint, or off-court teammate standpoint.

OKC doesn't necessarily have the best individual players, but they have great chemistry on and off the court and they're well-coached. SGA is a big reason why that works, so you can't necessarily just swap him out with Mitchell or Edwards and still get the same success. Similarly, if you put SGA on Cleveland or Minnesota, they don't necessarily make the Finals or do better than they did with Mitchell or Edwards, respectively.

[SportsGuru08]

I can't help but think of the '95 Magic after watching that collapse. We'll see if the Thunder are made of sterner stuff.

[Wingy]

Will Daigneault come to his senses and go back to his usual starting 5?

Have always thought one of the toughest aspects of OKC is being able to bring Caruso and Wallace off the bench in close proximity.

Makes them seem like they’re coming in waves. Like OKC has a respawn point.

[jkvonny]

This is a must win for OKC. Preferably a blow out victory.
They do not want to be in a close game against a playoff experienced, well coached (Carlisle) Pacers team. Indiana is very clutch in close games. OKC being Down 0-2 on the road, It will become very dicey for the Thunder if this happens.
Thunder has to split at home.

[jkvonny]

I can't help but think of the '95 Magic after watching that collapse. We'll see if the Thunder are made of sterner stuff.

I said this in another thread as well. It was a reply to you too.

"Ah, yes.

1995. Orlando Magic were favorites against the defending champs (Houston Rockets).
Magic was a young up and coming team too. Choked, meltdown in Game 1 at home of NBA Finals. Lost lead late after missing lots of FTs.
Rockets steals game 1 and also game 2 on the road. Magic never recovered after that.
All close games, too."

[scrabbarista]

I can't help but think of the '95 Magic after watching that collapse. We'll see if the Thunder are made of sterner stuff.

They are.

Funny, though, as I've said the Pacers' run reminds me of '95 Houston a bit.

[Blame Rasho]

I can't help but think of the '95 Magic after watching that collapse. We'll see if the Thunder are made of sterner stuff.

I would be disappointed if the Thunder don’t blow them out by 25.

[benhillboy]

Will Daigneault come to his senses and go back to his usual starting 5?

Have always thought one of the toughest aspects of OKC is being able to bring Caruso and Wallace off the bench in close proximity.

Makes them seem like they’re coming in waves. Like OKC has a respawn point.

I haven’t followed the thread but what’s the consensus on the starting lineup change? Obviously it looked dumb in hindsight. Was he too premature in reacting to what he perceived to be “playing a Big off” from the Pacers film versus the Cavs?

I don’t think it was too egregious because he tweaked the lineup during the regular season based on matchup but Game 1 of the Finals is head scratching.

[benhillboy]

I think the Pacers walk tonight. OKC playing with tremendous pressure, Indiana with house money and 100% confidence they won’t turn the ball over nearly as much as in game 1. The strategy of Nembhard passing SGA off to Nesmith in the paint is genius. Keep him inefficient and off the line and the Pacers know the hard part is taken care of. OKC’s halfcourt team offense hasn’t been pretty to look at all season, culminating in the fewest passes in an NBA game ALL SEASON in Game 1.
Let’s give lead assistant Lloyd Pierce his flowers. He got a raw deal getting fired in Atlanta but he’s shown why HOF coaches like Pop and Rick vouch for him.

[xBulletproof]

The strategy of Nembhard passing SGA off to Nesmith in the paint is genius. Keep him inefficient and off the line and the Pacers know the hard part is taken care of.

They're gonna make sure Haliburton or someone else is the guy 1 pass away anymore. Probably force Nesmith to be the low man on the weak side. Keep him as far from SGA as possible. If Nesmith is gonna continue to be the next man, they're gonna make it infinitely more complicated to pull off the peel switch. Maybe the Pacers stick with the concept anyway, and see if it works still even with a lesser defender.

I do know the Pacers purposely keep strategies back as a series goes along. Making sure they don't exhaust all their counters too quickly. I'm sure the Pacers are expecting what I'm saying to happen.

[MoneyTalks41890]

I dislike when people say they don’t like the NBA because there’s no defense. Not what I’ve seen in these playoffs at least.

Looking forward to seeing how both of these coaches adjust for tonight.

[Wingy]

Will Daigneault come to his senses and go back to his usual starting 5?

Have always thought one of the toughest aspects of OKC is being able to bring Caruso and Wallace off the bench in close proximity.

Makes them seem like they’re coming in waves. Like OKC has a respawn point.

I haven’t followed the thread but what’s the consensus on the starting lineup change? Obviously it looked dumb in hindsight. Was he too premature in reacting to what he perceived to be “playing a Big off” from the Pacers film versus the Cavs?

I don’t think it was too egregious because he tweaked the lineup during the regular season based on matchup but Game 1 of the Finals is head scratching.

Not sure either, but philosophically, I always hate adjusting to the other team. I much prefer to dictate that.

To me that immediately shows a certain level of fear and concession from the start and I really, really dislike what Daigneault did with that. See if your size can hurt then first before you just wave the white flag before a shot was ever taken.

[cupcakesnake]

Game 2 is going to be very interesting.

We're going to see if OKC can get it up to even things up, because if they go into game 3 down 0-2, this is going to be a huge problem for them. But we'll have to see what happens with Shai's support, because outside of Dort and Hartenstein, the Thunder were BRUTAL in backing up Shai with scoring. They shot under 40% as a team, which probably isn't going to happen again. And with that happening, this was a nail-biter, single-possession victory which Indy struggled to manage.

So I'd expect a pretty dominant performance from the Thunder in Game 2.

I felt the Thunder controlled the pace and dictated terms during game 1, willfully entering into the turnover battle with Indiana and demolishing them at it. The Pacers stayed in the game mostly on the back of continuing to hit 3s. They won the 4th quarter by dialing up the heat even more, going 6-10 on 3s.

I'll credit the Pacers for defending OKC well in the half court, with the caveat that every opponent has managed to guard OKC's halfcourt offense pretty well, particularly if J.Dub and Chet aren't shooting it well. Pack the paint against Shai/J.Dub drives and hope OKC shoots badly/reluctantly. Every team has done this, and OKC has shoot poorly in 2 of their 3 series so far (with another poor shooing output in game 1 of the finals).

I think we're wracking our brains to figure out how Indiana KEEPS GETTING AWAY WITH THIS! At the same time, this is a little bit like the 2023 Heat in that crazy hot shooting is making everything they do work. We've seen some amazing offense from the Pacers, and I don't want to overly detract from that. Game 1, however, their offense was not at its best, but the Pacers shot 46% from distance and hit 7 more 3s than their opponent.

I'm enjoying this Pacers run as much as anyone. Carlisle is my favorite coach. Siakam and Nembhard are amongst my favorite players. I don't want to detract from what they're doing, but I feel as we're gushing about their brilliance we're ignoring some ridiculous hot shooting that is giving them a much nicer margin for error.

When you've got a bunch of guys who can get hot and a system that typically generates a lot of good looks for everybody, you make it a lot easier for someone to go supernova for you to ride down the stretch...or to just catch fire as a collective. Especially if you are the fresher team in crunch time. It keeps happening for a reason

I'm not saying Indiana's success is entirely a result of 3-point shooting luck. It doesn't hurt though and they can't shoot that hot every game. I think game 1 was not an example of Indiana playing well on offense, but still just hitting their 3s at a crazy rate.

It's one thing to credit their offensive system for generating good looks, it's another thing to call this entirely sustainable. Siakam at 46%, Nembhard at 47%, Nesmith at 50%...these are all simply the best these guys have every shot in their careers.

We can say Indiana's offense is awesome, and still acknowledge the hot shooting is an extra boost. I'm not trying to be reductive about it. I'm enjoying watching it either way.

[Tim_Hardawayy]

I dislike when people say they don’t like the NBA because there’s no defense. Not what I’ve seen in these playoffs at least.

Looking forward to seeing how both of these coaches adjust for tonight.

I wouldn't say there's no defense in the playoffs, but as an actual fan you can't tell me it doesn't feel a bit gross how obvious the lack of effort in the regular season is compared to the post season. That is a legitimate complaint and I'd argue its the worst in the NBA of the major sports leagues.

And no, I'm not a fan of the "but 82 games" excuse, the defense didn't slack this badly in the regular season in the 90's/00's, this started much more recently. I sort of blame Shaq for players even getting the idea that you can "turn it on" at will, and then you started getting guys taking games off for maintenance and it got worse from there. It's a bad product for 82 games now, and I do not believe shortening it to 60 or whatever would change that, the in-season tournament sure didn't.

[BigGargamel]

"Pacers in 6" leading the poll. This board is so fickle, man.

I mean, I want to see the Pacers win too, it would be awesome, but I still don't see it happening. A freak game 1 doesn't change that.

[whatisacenter]

I think OKC bounces back and wins this one but I picked INDY in 6 and I'm sticking with it!

Ratings be damned...this is going to be a fun finals!