Bears 12.0

[dice]

https://www.espn.com/blog/chicago-bears/post/_/id/4712267/with-bears-losing-streak-at-12-focus-is-on-justin-fields-lack-of-progress

https://www.dabearsblog.com/2024/all-kinds-of-time-caleb-williams-justin-fields-time-to-throw

https://sites.bu.edu/wtbu/2023/10/17/the-break-out-justin-fields-is-running-out-of-chances/

https://jetsxfactor.com/2025/02/19/ny-jets-justin-fields-starting-qb-material/

Watch on YouTube

https://youtu.be/6LcbNNOfZnU?si=Qfmj04VjZxc8mvaa

https://youtu.be/GbBd1RRL_mc?si=ChqaiTIIGLZCQXwh

If you look hard enough in sports media you can find a handful of articles to support whatever agenda you want.

first of all, my agenda is the truth

secondly, i didn't have to look hard at all. one of those links is dabearsblog for christ's sake. and the video is quite detailed about his inability to process his reads...and how the steelers limited his decision making responsibilities

caleb and justin have both to date held onto the ball a long time. they did in college and they have in the NFL. doesn't matter how good your protection is if you're waiting for pressure

sacks taken doesn't tell you **** because it doesn't tell you how long it took for that sack to occur. pressure %? same concept. both are team stats. obviously the only reasonable way to grade all-around pass protection is to find out how much time the QB gets BEFORE he is pressured

how long did it take them to get rid of the ball? average time snap to release (NFL next gen):

3.23 fields 2023 (1st in league by far)
3.12 fields 2022 (4th)
3.04 fields 2024 (4th)
2.92 caleb 2024 (9th)
2.91 fields 2021 (7th)

still some muddiness w/ this one 'cause it doesn't take pressure into account or whether, as in caleb's case at least, he gets pressured but STILL can't get rid of the ball. or the QB's ability to buy more time w/ his legs. regardless, the results are hardly an indication of BAD protection

pocket time - how long before throw OR pocket collapse. depends to significant degree on play-calling:

2.4 caleb 2024 (9th) - bears didn't call a lot of quick release plays, so # would be a bit bloated. still, no indication of a protection problem

pass block win rate (ESPN) - this one's pretty unambiguous. how often does the pocket remain intact for 2.5 seconds:

68% 2022 bears (2nd) - this year was totally on justin. hold...hold...pressure...hold...run!
66% 2021 bears (6th) - horrendous receiving corps
62% 2024 steelers (13th)
60% 2024 bears (15th)
59% 2023 bears (17th)

no way to tap dance around this one. if your pocket is reliable for a reasonable amount of time and you're still getting sacked a ****-ton...time to figure out how to get rid of the ball faster (or get open faster)!

can't find the average time before pressure rankings for some reason

[Susan]

https://www.espn.com/blog/chicago-bears/post/_/id/4712267/with-bears-losing-streak-at-12-focus-is-on-justin-fields-lack-of-progress

https://www.dabearsblog.com/2024/all-kinds-of-time-caleb-williams-justin-fields-time-to-throw

https://sites.bu.edu/wtbu/2023/10/17/the-break-out-justin-fields-is-running-out-of-chances/

https://jetsxfactor.com/2025/02/19/ny-jets-justin-fields-starting-qb-material/

Watch on YouTube

https://youtu.be/6LcbNNOfZnU?si=Qfmj04VjZxc8mvaa

https://youtu.be/GbBd1RRL_mc?si=ChqaiTIIGLZCQXwh

If you look hard enough in sports media you can find a handful of articles to support whatever agenda you want.

first of all, my agenda is the truth

secondly, i didn't have to look hard at all. one of those links is dabearsblog for christ's sake. and the video is quite detailed about his inability to process his reads...and how the steelers limited his decision making responsibilities

caleb and justin have both to date held onto the ball a long time. they did in college and they have in the NFL. doesn't matter how good your protection is if you're waiting for pressure

sacks taken doesn't tell you **** because it doesn't tell you how long it took for that sack to occur. pressure %? same concept. both are team stats. obviously the only reasonable way to grade all-around pass protection is to find out how much time the QB gets BEFORE he is pressured

how long did it take them to get rid of the ball? average time snap to release (NFL next gen):

3.23 fields 2023 (1st in league by far)
3.12 fields 2022 (4th)
3.04 fields 2024 (4th)
2.92 caleb 2024 (9th)
2.91 fields 2021 (7th)

still some muddiness w/ this one 'cause it doesn't take pressure into account whether, as in caleb's case at least, he gets pressured but STILL can't get rid of the ball. or the QB's ability to buy more time w/ his legs. regardless, the results are hardly an indication of BAD protection

pocket time - how long before throw OR pocket collapse. depends to significant degree on play-calling:

2.4 caleb 2024 (9th) - bears didn't call a lot of quick release plays, so # would be a bit bloated. still, no indication of a protection problem

pass block win rate (ESPN) - this one's pretty unambiguous. how often does the pocket remain intact for 2.5 seconds:

68% 2022 bears (2nd) - this year was totally on justin. hold...hold...pressure...hold...run!
66% 2021 bears (6th) - horrendous receiving corps
62% 2024 steelers (13th)
60% 2024 bears (15th)
59% 2023 bears (17th)

no way to tap dance around this one. if your pocket is reliable for a reasonable amount of time and you're still getting sacked a ****-ton...time to figure out how to get rid of the ball faster (or get open faster)!

can't find the average time before pressure rankings for some reason

Watch the videos I posted to understand why TTT isn't the end all be all.

Both Caleb and Justin have plus elusiveness which skews all of your stats to make the OL look better than it is. Only Wright was a plus player and when the rest of the bunch hit FA - there wasn't a single player that was a priority free agent from another team.

Tevin - low level 1 year deal
Nate Davis - out of football
Whitehair - started 3 games last year and pretty sure is now out of football
Lucas Patrick - low level 1 year deal two years in a row
Coleman Shelton - 2 year middle of the road deal
Braxton Jones - 5th rounder that Johnson is looking to replace (in part because of injury)
Ryan Bates - still on the Bears but dude has arthritic shoulders

On the video regarding OL play - one of the best points from the video I posted was this: 10 of the 11 teams with the highest continuity in their OL grouping were all playoff teams. The Bears have been god awful in this regard and that's been to the detriment of their young quarterbacks.

[Susan]

Jury is still out on Caleb. We will see fairly soon if he’s developed fixable bad habits, or he has a real problem going on. I don’t sense that there’s a hardcore support base to establish extended excuse-making for Caleb like there was for Justin. Justin had like his own religious sect. Ben Johnson won’t leave Caleb much cover if he fails.

You claimed Trevor Simeon was going to run the offense better than Fields - a true all time banger.

The reality is - the Bears failed both Justin and Caleb with the OL and coaching staff they they surrounded each guy with. We'll see if this OL can stay healthy and how Caleb plays then but Fields is going to have a plus OL and the best running game he's ever had in his career and it's my expectation that the Jets are going to exceed expectations this year.

If the OL is once again a game of musical chairs and not a cohesive unit - Caleb will struggle and there will be "excuses" for him.

Well, I don’t remember what I said, but Simeon probably did run it better even though he’s not good, and suitable for insurance sales and practice squads. Sorry that you’re hanging onto this stuff for so long to bring it up unprompted. How’s the “Franchise quarterback” as you called him…Mitch Trubisky, and your favorite GM Ryan Pace doing. Paid rather well at least they are.

Yes, the Bears are failures. But don’t get it twisted. Players are responsible for the outcomes of their own careers.

The main argument for keeping Pace is/was this: the franchise allowed him to give up large draft capital to draft Fields and from that point on - his development should have been a priority to get the franchise off of this merry go round of stupid.

Poles tanked the roster and had no interest in developing Fields, then drafted Caleb only to pretty much immediately fire Eberflus and hire Ben Johnson. Now Ben Johnson is coming into a situation as an offensive genius who's saddled with a QB he didn't choose and a GM who's one bad season away from being shown the door and we can do the same song and dance that we just did where a new GM has no loyalty to the highly drafted QB and doesn't make his development the top priority.

A competent franchise never allows for the following:
-Mitch to be drafted with a lame duck HC
-Lame duck combo HC/GM trade up for new franchise project QB
-New GM ignores developing previous GMs project QB
-Keep Eberflus but trade Fields, it should have been a new HC with a new QB or keep Flus & Fields

The insanity of this "process" stems from the thought that one dude is going to fix the entire thing. Outside of maybe the Browns nobody has done a worse job with wasting resources and ignoring the process of QB development than the Bears.

When the Vikings are making their playoff run this year - do not be surprised because:
-they have an elite offensive HC (and great defense)
-have the best weapons in the NFL
-have invested serious resources into the OL
-drafted a first round QB and gave him time/put him into a situation where he wasn't needing to be the franchise savior

[Hold That]

You claimed Trevor Simeon was going to run the offense better than Fields - a true all time banger.

The reality is - the Bears failed both Justin and Caleb with the OL and coaching staff they they surrounded each guy with. We'll see if this OL can stay healthy and how Caleb plays then but Fields is going to have a plus OL and the best running game he's ever had in his career and it's my expectation that the Jets are going to exceed expectations this year.

If the OL is once again a game of musical chairs and not a cohesive unit - Caleb will struggle and there will be "excuses" for him.

Well, I don’t remember what I said, but Simeon probably did run it better even though he’s not good, and suitable for insurance sales and practice squads. Sorry that you’re hanging onto this stuff for so long to bring it up unprompted. How’s the “Franchise quarterback” as you called him…Mitch Trubisky, and your favorite GM Ryan Pace doing. Paid rather well at least they are.

Yes, the Bears are failures. But don’t get it twisted. Players are responsible for the outcomes of their own careers.

The main argument for keeping Pace is/was this: the franchise allowed him to give up large draft capital to draft Fields and from that point on - his development should have been a priority to get the franchise off of this merry go round of stupid.

Poles tanked the roster and had no interest in developing Fields, then drafted Caleb only to pretty much immediately fire Eberflus and hire Ben Johnson. Now Ben Johnson is coming into a situation as an offensive genius who's saddled with a QB he didn't choose and a GM who's one bad season away from being shown the door and we can do the same song and dance that we just did where a new GM has no loyalty to the highly drafted QB and doesn't make his development the top priority.

A competent franchise never allows for the following:
-Mitch to be drafted with a lame duck HC
-Lame duck combo HC/GM trade up for new franchise project QB
-New GM ignores developing previous GMs project QB
-Keep Eberflus but trade Fields, it should have been a new HC with a new QB or keep Flus & Fields

The insanity of this "process" stems from the thought that one dude is going to fix the entire thing. Outside of maybe the Browns nobody has done a worse job with wasting resources and ignoring the process of QB development than the Bears.

When the Vikings are making their playoff run this year - do not be surprised because:
-they have an elite offensive HC (and great defense)
-have the best weapons in the NFL
-have invested serious resources into the OL
-drafted a first round QB and gave him time/put him into a situation where he wasn't needing to be the franchise savior

Regarding your points against the Vikings

1. We have an elite offensive coach as well
2. I don’t agree they have the best weapons in the NFL they are on par with most of the top 10 teams in terms of roster talent. I would even argue the bears have more offensive depth than the Vikings. The Vikings just posses the best player out of the two teams in JJ
3. So have we this year, we spent majority of our FA money on the OL and drafted two additinal lineman this year. One of which is getting a lot of buzz to potentially be a starting LT in Ozzy.
4. Did they give him time? Or did he just go down with a season ending injury before the season started.

[dice]

Both Caleb and Justin have plus elusiveness which skews all of your stats to make the OL look better than it is

pass block win rate is solely a protection stat. has nothing to do with what the QB is doing back there. the reality is that the bears had adequate protection at the line. all the individual grades show a similar result. there were issues ONCE protection broke down/handling blitzes/scheme issues. but that's not on the line

Only Wright was a plus player and when the rest of the bunch hit FA - there wasn't a single player that was a priority free agent from another team.

Tevin - low level 1 year deal

tevin lost a game of musical chairs. we would have been vastly better off keeping him at that salary, saving loads of cap space and investing better on the defensive front

Nate Davis - out of football
Whitehair - started 3 games last year and pretty sure is now out of football
Lucas Patrick - low level 1 year deal two years in a row
Coleman Shelton - 2 year middle of the road deal
Braxton Jones - 5th rounder that Johnson is looking to replace (in part because of injury)
Ryan Bates - still on the Bears but dude has arthritic shoulders

RG a definite issue, though pryor was solid. shelton was solid at C after rough start, tackles have been pretty good, teven pro bowl potential when healthy

On the video regarding OL play - one of the best points from the video I posted was this: 10 of the 11 teams with the highest continuity in their OL grouping were all playoff teams. The Bears have been god awful in this regard and that's been to the detriment of their young quarterbacks.

no doubt there have been continuity issues

[dice]

Poles tanked the roster and had no interest in developing Fields

i dunno about that. he made a dumb trade for claypool for that very reason. and the ill-fated investment in nate davis. he lucked into something w/ his late round LT pick. whitehair inexplicably fell off a cliff and solid shelton was brought in. took DJ moore (fields's favorite target) rather than additional draft capital. spent big to re-sign kmet (another favorite fields target). used a 1st rounder on RT. that's a lot of help for fields!

the steelers didn't want fields either. the lowly jets are taking a 2 yr. swing for $40 mil. we'll see if he can come up

The insanity of this "process" stems from the thought that one dude is going to fix the entire thing. Outside of maybe the Browns nobody has done a worse job with wasting resources and ignoring the process of QB development than the Bears.

seems to me the only real issue to date has been coaching

When the Vikings are making their playoff run this year - do not be surprised because:
-they have an elite offensive HC (and great defense)
-have the best weapons in the NFL
-have invested serious resources into the OL
-drafted a first round QB and gave him time/put him into a situation where he wasn't needing to be the franchise savior

if mccarthy isn't good it won't matter much. if he IS good, it will be more because of what's between his ears than the players around him or even the coaching

and every GM wants a great O-line AND great coaching AND great weapons AND great defense. that's just a great all-around team waiting on a solid or better QB! it's a matter of finding out HOW to do it, not WHETHER to do it. jaysus

[fleet]

A couple macro points about how the new Bears looked in minicamp

- The defense had control day 1
- Caleb and the offense came alive day 2-3
- Observers still thought that while Caleb started cooking more, he was still holding the ball to an extent. And BJ was openly speaking to Caleb about that day 2.

Maybe Caleb gets the ball out quicker as he gets more used to the offense, and reading NFL defenses. Maybe he always will be like this, and is able to function well anyways. Either coaches will want to work with him, or they don’t and would find an alternative if one became available. There must be many caveats.

[Susan]

if mccarthy isn't good it won't matter much. if he IS good, it will be more because of what's between his ears than the players around him or even the coaching

and every GM wants a great O-line AND great coaching AND great weapons AND great defense. that's just a great all-around team waiting on a solid or better QB! it's a matter of finding out HOW to do it, not WHETHER to do it. jaysus

Caleb and his dad literally tried to avoid the Bears (and make it to the Vikings) for this very reason. The coaching and support there MAKE QBS GOOD. They went to be coached by Lincoln Riley because he MAKES QBS GOOD. Either you accept that situation and support matters or you think Lincoln Riley is the luckiest dude on earth for getting 3 guys drafted 1st overall. Situation matters.

Well, I don’t remember what I said, but Simeon probably did run it better even though he’s not good, and suitable for insurance sales and practice squads. Sorry that you’re hanging onto this stuff for so long to bring it up unprompted. How’s the “Franchise quarterback” as you called him…Mitch Trubisky, and your favorite GM Ryan Pace doing. Paid rather well at least they are.

Yes, the Bears are failures. But don’t get it twisted. Players are responsible for the outcomes of their own careers.

The main argument for keeping Pace is/was this: the franchise allowed him to give up large draft capital to draft Fields and from that point on - his development should have been a priority to get the franchise off of this merry go round of stupid.

Poles tanked the roster and had no interest in developing Fields, then drafted Caleb only to pretty much immediately fire Eberflus and hire Ben Johnson. Now Ben Johnson is coming into a situation as an offensive genius who's saddled with a QB he didn't choose and a GM who's one bad season away from being shown the door and we can do the same song and dance that we just did where a new GM has no loyalty to the highly drafted QB and doesn't make his development the top priority.

A competent franchise never allows for the following:
-Mitch to be drafted with a lame duck HC
-Lame duck combo HC/GM trade up for new franchise project QB
-New GM ignores developing previous GMs project QB
-Keep Eberflus but trade Fields, it should have been a new HC with a new QB or keep Flus & Fields

The insanity of this "process" stems from the thought that one dude is going to fix the entire thing. Outside of maybe the Browns nobody has done a worse job with wasting resources and ignoring the process of QB development than the Bears.

When the Vikings are making their playoff run this year - do not be surprised because:
-they have an elite offensive HC (and great defense)
-have the best weapons in the NFL
-have invested serious resources into the OL
-drafted a first round QB and gave him time/put him into a situation where he wasn't needing to be the franchise savior

Regarding your points against the Vikings

1. We have an elite offensive coach as well
2. I don’t agree they have the best weapons in the NFL they are on par with most of the top 10 teams in terms of roster talent. I would even argue the bears have more offensive depth than the Vikings. The Vikings just posses the best player out of the two teams in JJ
3. So have we this year, we spent majority of our FA money on the OL and drafted two additinal lineman this year. One of which is getting a lot of buzz to potentially be a starting LT in Ozzy.
4. Did they give him time? Or did he just go down with a season ending injury before the season started.

1. They have an elite prospect of an offensive coach - there's a major difference between COTY KOC and a guy who's only called plays at an excellent level. I'm leery of how pass heavy they appear to be and the age/health of the OL - the Lions were a top 6 running team with an OL that had heavy resources put into it and we don't exactly have that here.

2. Their depth is wildly unproven. Even Rome was a mild disappointment relative to the hype he had coming out.

3. Ozzy is a RT shifting to the left side as a rookie, Jackson more or less missed the entire year last year and 4+ games every season in the previous two, he's wildly unreliable and Thuney is at the age where you just can't expect excellent health from him.

4. They went 14-3 with Sam Darnold. They didn't need JJ to produce in the slightest to be successful, they were good enough all around to afford to wait on him. Of course the injury removed this from the equation but say you threw Sam Darnold on last year's team, how many games do you think the Bears are winning? Every single time they've thrown young QBs out there into a bad situation and asked them to save the day with no thought or plan on how to develop them.

[Chi town]

A couple macro points about how the new Bears looked in minicamp

- The defense had control day 1
- Caleb and the offense came alive day 2-3
- Observers still thought that while Caleb started cooking more, he was still holding the ball to an extent. And BJ was openly speaking to Caleb about that day 2.

Maybe Caleb gets the ball out quicker as he gets more used to the offense, and reading NFL defenses. Maybe he always will be like this, and is able to function well anyways. Either coaches will want to work with him, or they don’t and would find an alternative if one became available. There must be many caveats.

It’s going to take some time to work out the anti turnover caution and safety holding the ball from Flus.

I think CW will be ready by the start of the season. He will be letting it rip.

[dice]

if mccarthy isn't good it won't matter much. if he IS good, it will be more because of what's between his ears than the players around him or even the coaching

and every GM wants a great O-line AND great coaching AND great weapons AND great defense. that's just a great all-around team waiting on a solid or better QB! it's a matter of finding out HOW to do it, not WHETHER to do it. jaysus

Caleb and his dad literally tried to avoid the Bears (and make it to the Vikings) for this very reason. The coaching and support there MAKE QBS GOOD. They went to be coached by Lincoln Riley because he MAKES QBS GOOD. Either you accept that situation and support matters or you think Lincoln Riley is the luckiest dude on earth for getting 3 guys drafted 1st overall. Situation matters.

of course situation matters. but a QB shouldn't need a red carpet rolled out for him in order to succeed. caleb shouldn't need a great OL AND great receivers AND great coaching AND a good defense to boot. that just serves to create the illusion of good QB play. justin fields had all of that in college. plenty of time to find wide open elite receivers. that cushy SITUATION didn't prepare him to be a franchise NFL QB. and bears coaching won't be the reason he never becomes a franchise QB if that doesn't happen

mahomes didn't have much talent around him in college. didn't prevent him from developing into a GOAT-caliber NFL performer. would he have had the same amount of success in chicago? very unlikely. but the capability would still have been very apparent. he still would have earned a giant extension and been a regular pro bowler at minimum. whereas if trubisky would have ended up on the chiefs he still would have eventually ended up a backup

[Dresden]

if mccarthy isn't good it won't matter much. if he IS good, it will be more because of what's between his ears than the players around him or even the coaching

and every GM wants a great O-line AND great coaching AND great weapons AND great defense. that's just a great all-around team waiting on a solid or better QB! it's a matter of finding out HOW to do it, not WHETHER to do it. jaysus

Caleb and his dad literally tried to avoid the Bears (and make it to the Vikings) for this very reason. The coaching and support there MAKE QBS GOOD. They went to be coached by Lincoln Riley because he MAKES QBS GOOD. Either you accept that situation and support matters or you think Lincoln Riley is the luckiest dude on earth for getting 3 guys drafted 1st overall. Situation matters.

of course situation matters. but a QB shouldn't need a red carpet rolled out for him in order to succeed. caleb shouldn't need a great OL AND great receivers AND great coaching AND a good defense to boot. that just serves to create the illusion of good QB play. justin fields had all of that in college. plenty of time to find wide open elite receivers. that cushy SITUATION didn't prepare him to be a franchise NFL QB. and bears coaching won't be the reason he never becomes a franchise QB if that doesn't happen

mahomes didn't have much talent around him in college. didn't prevent him from developing into a GOAT-caliber NFL performer. would he have had the same amount of success in chicago? very unlikely. but the capability would still have been very apparent. he still would have earned a giant extension and been a regular pro bowler at minimum. whereas if trubisky would have ended up on the chiefs he still would have eventually ended up a backup

I think Andy Reid had a lot to do with Mahomes' success. Just as Kyle Shanahan has gotten more out of Brock Purdy than a lot of coaches would have. Same with Brady/Belichich. Not that these QB's wouldn't have found success elsewhere, but I think the genius of these coaches knew pretty quickly what they had in these QB's were able to get the most out of them. Hope that BJ can do the same with Caleb.

I think you could also make the case that Brock Purdy's near MVP status does have a lot to do with the team he has around them. Weapons like Deebo, Ayuik, Kittle, supported by a great running game with an all-pro back, a very good O line (until recently), anchored by a HOF LT, and a very innovative coach. Caleb should have all that going for him now, and if he doesn't produce this year, it will be time to wonder whether he's really the guy or not.

[biggestbullsfan]

Read on Twitter

Well there goes that dream lol hopefully Swift has the type of year we paying him for lol

[Jeffster81]

Read on Twitter

Well there goes that dream lol hopefully Swift has the type of year we paying him for lol

No loss. I think he's cooked.

[nomorezorro]

once again, a helpful reminder that nobody should believe local sports radio guys as news breakers

[fleet]

if mccarthy isn't good it won't matter much. if he IS good, it will be more because of what's between his ears than the players around him or even the coaching

and every GM wants a great O-line AND great coaching AND great weapons AND great defense. that's just a great all-around team waiting on a solid or better QB! it's a matter of finding out HOW to do it, not WHETHER to do it. jaysus

Caleb and his dad literally tried to avoid the Bears (and make it to the Vikings) for this very reason. The coaching and support there MAKE QBS GOOD. They went to be coached by Lincoln Riley because he MAKES QBS GOOD. Either you accept that situation and support matters or you think Lincoln Riley is the luckiest dude on earth for getting 3 guys drafted 1st overall. Situation matters.

of course situation matters. but a QB shouldn't need a red carpet rolled out for him in order to succeed. caleb shouldn't need a great OL AND great receivers AND great coaching AND a good defense to boot. that just serves to create the illusion of good QB play. justin fields had all of that in college. plenty of time to find wide open elite receivers. that cushy SITUATION didn't prepare him to be a franchise NFL QB. and bears coaching won't be the reason he never becomes a franchise QB if that doesn't happen

mahomes didn't have much talent around him in college. didn't prevent him from developing into a GOAT-caliber NFL performer. would he have had the same amount of success in chicago? very unlikely. but the capability would still have been very apparent. he still would have earned a giant extension and been a regular pro bowler at minimum. whereas if trubisky would have ended up on the chiefs he still would have eventually ended up a backup

A truly great quarterback doesn’t need excellent weapons all over the field, and a stellar O-line to show out. And that’s the bar that has been set for Caleb, being a truly great and generational quarterback. If he needs all the help in the world to be able to excel himself, well then we don’t have what we were sold. Caleb has more than enough now.

[fleet]

Read on Twitter

Well there goes that dream lol hopefully Swift has the type of year we paying him for lol

It was never my dream to sign a high mileage older running back that has been declining for 2 seasons coming off a serious knee injury. Some Bears fans were trying to speak it into existence for reasons that don’t make a lot of empirical sense.

[dougthonus]

1. They have an elite prospect of an offensive coach - there's a major difference between COTY KOC and a guy who's only called plays at an excellent level. I'm leery of how pass heavy they appear to be and the age/health of the OL - the Lions were a top 6 running team with an OL that had heavy resources put into it and we don't exactly have that here.

2. Their depth is wildly unproven. Even Rome was a mild disappointment relative to the hype he had coming out.

3. Ozzy is a RT shifting to the left side as a rookie, Jackson more or less missed the entire year last year and 4+ games every season in the previous two, he's wildly unreliable and Thuney is at the age where you just can't expect excellent health from him.

4. They went 14-3 with Sam Darnold. They didn't need JJ to produce in the slightest to be successful, they were good enough all around to afford to wait on him. Of course the injury removed this from the equation but say you threw Sam Darnold on last year's team, how many games do you think the Bears are winning? Every single time they've thrown young QBs out there into a bad situation and asked them to save the day with no thought or plan on how to develop them.

I generally agree with all your points.

I would say the Bears have done a lot of things to try to address their problems. We'll see how they work in reality vs on paper, but I think all of your concerns are well justified.

That said there is reasonable evidence in terms of pass win rates and time to pressure stats to suggest the offensive line wasn't quite the unmitigated disaster people described and that it was closer to average and it is reasonable to think this year's line should be better.

I don't think the Bears are likely to be lightning in a bottle this year, and I probably have as many concerns as you (though I think you are a more knowledgeable and passionate football guy than I am), but it does feel like on paper the investments were mostly in the right place this year to me. I hope they translate well enough to see some real improvement and well enough that we can really judge Caleb well.

If instead I ask the question, "Do I think the decisions made this off-season seem like they are decent and addressing the correct problems", then I lean a little more yes than I have with other years under Poles, whom I generally have not liked.

[Dresden]

1. They have an elite prospect of an offensive coach - there's a major difference between COTY KOC and a guy who's only called plays at an excellent level. I'm leery of how pass heavy they appear to be and the age/health of the OL - the Lions were a top 6 running team with an OL that had heavy resources put into it and we don't exactly have that here.

2. Their depth is wildly unproven. Even Rome was a mild disappointment relative to the hype he had coming out.

3. Ozzy is a RT shifting to the left side as a rookie, Jackson more or less missed the entire year last year and 4+ games every season in the previous two, he's wildly unreliable and Thuney is at the age where you just can't expect excellent health from him.

4. They went 14-3 with Sam Darnold. They didn't need JJ to produce in the slightest to be successful, they were good enough all around to afford to wait on him. Of course the injury removed this from the equation but say you threw Sam Darnold on last year's team, how many games do you think the Bears are winning? Every single time they've thrown young QBs out there into a bad situation and asked them to save the day with no thought or plan on how to develop them.

I generally agree with all your points.

I would say the Bears have done a lot of things to try to address their problems. We'll see how they work in reality vs on paper, but I think all of your concerns are well justified.

That said there is reasonable evidence in terms of pass win rates and time to pressure stats to suggest the offensive line wasn't quite the unmitigated disaster people described and that it was closer to average and it is reasonable to think this year's line should be better.

I don't think the Bears are likely to be lightning in a bottle this year, and I probably have as many concerns as you (though I think you are a more knowledgeable and passionate football guy than I am), but it does feel like on paper the investments were mostly in the right place this year to me. I hope they translate well enough to see some real improvement and well enough that we can really judge Caleb well.

If instead I ask the question, "Do I think the decisions made this off-season seem like they are decent and addressing the correct problems", then I lean a little more yes than I have with other years under Poles, whom I generally have not liked.

The arguments for and against Poles go round and round and round. But what I look at is this- I think the Bears team right now has more pieces in place to compete for a championship than any Bears team since the last time they went to a Super Bowl, so based on that, I give Poles pretty high marks.

[fleet]

1. They have an elite prospect of an offensive coach - there's a major difference between COTY KOC and a guy who's only called plays at an excellent level. I'm leery of how pass heavy they appear to be and the age/health of the OL - the Lions were a top 6 running team with an OL that had heavy resources put into it and we don't exactly have that here.

2. Their depth is wildly unproven. Even Rome was a mild disappointment relative to the hype he had coming out.

3. Ozzy is a RT shifting to the left side as a rookie, Jackson more or less missed the entire year last year and 4+ games every season in the previous two, he's wildly unreliable and Thuney is at the age where you just can't expect excellent health from him.

4. They went 14-3 with Sam Darnold. They didn't need JJ to produce in the slightest to be successful, they were good enough all around to afford to wait on him. Of course the injury removed this from the equation but say you threw Sam Darnold on last year's team, how many games do you think the Bears are winning? Every single time they've thrown young QBs out there into a bad situation and asked them to save the day with no thought or plan on how to develop them.

I generally agree with all your points.

I would say the Bears have done a lot of things to try to address their problems. We'll see how they work in reality vs on paper, but I think all of your concerns are well justified.

That said there is reasonable evidence in terms of pass win rates and time to pressure stats to suggest the offensive line wasn't quite the unmitigated disaster people described and that it was closer to average and it is reasonable to think this year's line should be better.

I don't think the Bears are likely to be lightning in a bottle this year, and I probably have as many concerns as you (though I think you are a more knowledgeable and passionate football guy than I am), but it does feel like on paper the investments were mostly in the right place this year to me. I hope they translate well enough to see some real improvement and well enough that we can really judge Caleb well.

If instead I ask the question, "Do I think the decisions made this off-season seem like they are decent and addressing the correct problems", then I lean a little more yes than I have with other years under Poles, whom I generally have not liked.

Pretty much. Poles now reserves the right to begin doing a better job after learning on the job at any time. We wish he didn’t need to learn on the job, he should’ve been fired, but….

What has happened this offseason leading out of the decision to fire Eberflus? Pretty clearly Kevin Warren laid down the law for change, and now as a result he and Ben Johnson have changed the way the team is operating a great deal. If I had to guess, Ryan Poles had a lot taken away, basically runs the scouting department and conducts the player acquisitions, and the big picture is for Ben and Kevin.

[nomorezorro]

if i have to guess, my previously established opinion is still correct, and any new information that is incongruous with that opinion is explained away by other factors i made up