2025 General Draft Discussion 2

MPM · Post #181 » by **MPM** » Sun Jun 8, 2025 12:21 pm

I need an advent calendar for draft day.

Snidely FC · Post #182 » by **Snidely FC** » Sun Jun 8, 2025 2:27 pm

ESPN moved Noa Essengue up to #9 https://www.espn.com/nba/draft/bestavailable

Essengue has increasingly made a case for himself over the past few months in Germany, displaying tangible strides in consistency and motor and playing an active style that has been additive to winning. Still just 18 years old, Essengue has a combination of size, mobility, explosiveness and projectable frame that gives him a wide array of pathways to ultimately succeed in the NBA, similar to Pascal Siakam.

Essengue's youth, tools, two-way instincts and rapid rate of improvement suggest a high ceiling that could lead to a significant rise on draft night.

Bassman · Post #183 » by **Bassman** » Sun Jun 8, 2025 11:54 pm

Snidely FC wrote:ESPN moved Noa Essengue up to #9 https://www.espn.com/nba/draft/bestavailable
Essengue has increasingly made a case for himself over the past few months in Germany, displaying tangible strides in consistency and motor and playing an active style that has been additive to winning. Still just 18 years old, Essengue has a combination of size, mobility, explosiveness and projectable frame that gives him a wide array of pathways to ultimately succeed in the NBA, similar to Pascal Siakam.

Essengue's youth, tools, two-way instincts and rapid rate of improvement suggest a high ceiling that could lead to a significant rise on draft night.

I’m just not nearly as high on Essengue as some of these takes. Maybe a slightly better version of Tiddy but still young and raw, a below average 3%. A project we shouldn’t want even if trading down a few spots.

JMAC3 · Post #184 » by **JMAC3** » Mon Jun 9, 2025 5:14 pm

Essengue is still playing, so he is getting the late season bump... He is borderline lottery for me but I don't really understand the people who have him top 6-7.

JMAC3 · Post #185 » by **JMAC3** » Mon Jun 9, 2025 5:32 pm

The draft is cool, but I am starting to feel like what we do post draft will actually determine the off-season a lot more than the guy picked at #4.

For instance, Barlowe had us taking Maluach at #4 in his mock draft today stating it would save us money but actually this year Maluach would be more expensive around 10 million than Mark at 6.2 million. Now I agree that moving forward past this year Malauch might be cheaper than Williams but Malauch will be making 10+ million a year, so it isn't like he is super cheap compared to what a Mark extension would be (15-20 aav).

Then, if you draft Maluach later this month you basically announce that you are moving Mark Williams who already has reduced trade value due to the failed physical. His value probably goes down even more after you have Khaman on the roster. How many teams are really in the market for a starting center right now? Lakers, Bulls, Bucks, Boston?

I doubt Lakers are opening that back, heard no rumors on that.
Bulls, maybe if they move off Vucevic but what are they giving us? They might rather draft a center at 12.
Bucks? Have nothing to offer.
Boston? Would you move Mark for Hauser and pick #28? That seems pretty light to me.

Maluach production outside of college basketball is pretty bad, despite being on South Sudan Olympic team.
https://www.proballers.com/basketball/player/252887/khaman-maluach

driveandkick · Post #186 » by **driveandkick** » Mon Jun 9, 2025 5:48 pm

This seems to be the consensus but yeah. This franchise is in zero shape to gambling on a player like Maluach fourth overall.

Post #187 » by **JDR720** » Mon Jun 9, 2025 5:55 pm

I just don't see a reason, Mark or not, to draft a player like Maluach top 5 in this draft. Like, what's his ceiling? He averaged 8pts 6rebs.

If he doesn't learn to shoot, he's basically... Clint Capella? And if he learns to shoot, he's... Myles Turner?

Post #188 » by **fatlever** » Mon Jun 9, 2025 6:38 pm

essengue is the french forward we wished tiddy could become. id swap those 2 in a nanosecond

driveandkick · Post #189 » by **driveandkick** » Mon Jun 9, 2025 6:45 pm

fatlever wrote:essengue is the french forward we wished tiddy could become. id swap those 2 in a nanosecond

There aren’t many players I wouldn’t swap Salaun for right now lmao

Post #190 » by **JDR720** » Mon Jun 9, 2025 7:17 pm

Kon: This drafts "safe" high floor/low ceiling player.
Tre: This drafts "6th man" and maybe more player.
Ace: This drafts "swing for the fence" upside player.

VJ is the only one of them that doesn't really fit any of these stereotypes. Maybe the "defender who has offensive potential" but those types are normally bad on offense, I think VJ is at least solid. That's fits Maluach better.

JMAC3 · Post #191 » by **JMAC3** » Mon Jun 9, 2025 7:25 pm

Saying someone has a high floor is kind of meaningless to me because what are you actually saying? At least with saying a player has a high ceiling you are thinking All-star potential. Is high floor they are a 10 yr vet? a guaranteed starter in their career? a solid bench piece?

If Kon ends up Kevin Huerter, are people going to be right or wrong about him having a high floor?

Rich4114 · Post #192 » by **Rich4114** » Mon Jun 9, 2025 8:14 pm

If we have Maluach and Salaun on the roster taking up nearly $20m/yr I'm going to want Jeff's head to roll.

As for the upside/ceiling/floor talk, I think with Kon it's less about that and more what his impact might be to winning. I don't need him to be a superstar if he has a high impact towards winning (like I think he does).

VJ has a chance to be a star though, he has the drive/bounce/athleticism to put it all together. I've seen a lot of Suggs comparisons on him and if he ended up being what Suggs is now in a few years then that would be amazing. And I used to think Suggs was terrible because of his offense. Once he figured out that 3pter, the rest came together.

Post #193 » by **fatlever** » Mon Jun 9, 2025 9:44 pm

https://theswishtheory.com/scouting-report/nba-draft/2025-nba-draft/

swish theory new draft guide

MasterIchiro · Post #194 » by **MasterIchiro** » Mon Jun 9, 2025 9:52 pm

Suggs was always a playmaker and played PG in college. VJ is no such thing.

wilson115 · Post #195 » by **wilson115** » Mon Jun 9, 2025 11:55 pm

Don't really know much about the Yang kid but WTH? Kalkbrenner also looks like a decent return for one of our seconds.

Read on Twitter

JMAC3 · Post #196 » by **JMAC3** » Tue Jun 10, 2025 3:54 am

fatlever wrote:https://theswishtheory.com/scouting-report/nba-draft/2025-nba-draft/

swish theory new draft guide

Anytime you see CMB top 5 and Ace outside the top 10- you know the big board is by a spreadsheet socialist. All the telltale signs are there too, Kon high and Fears low. This is what happens when you just put numbers into a spreadsheet and base very little on the actual film or players skillsets.

Post #197 » by **Diop** » Tue Jun 10, 2025 3:58 am

wilson115 wrote:Don't really know much about the Yang kid but WTH? Kalkbrenner also looks like a decent return for one of our seconds.

Read on Twitter

Yang played in the CBA, so pretty much apples and oranges

Bassman · Post #198 » by **Bassman** » Tue Jun 10, 2025 1:54 pm

Perhaps the biggest challenge: what happens if the Sixers take VJ? I know there’s lots of possibilities at 3, and some talk of them trading the pick. Whomever picks 3rd, should they take VJ, takes the “best fit” (per many analysts) out of the equation. If Ace isn’t regarded as highly and Tre is thought to be rather one dimensional, my fear is Jeff takes either Maluach or Knipple. It plays out similar to last year, when Castle and (yuck) Sheppard were off the board. I can see how VJ would be tops on their list, but dreading who is behind him.

Maybe they’d take a swing on Fears instead of those two? I could be persuaded on his upside potential being greater, and we could certainly use him as our back up PG while he develops at the next level.

MasterIchiro · Post #199 » by **MasterIchiro** » Tue Jun 10, 2025 1:56 pm

Bassman wrote:Perhaps the biggest challenge: what happens if the Sixers take VJ? I know there’s lots of possibilities at 3, and some talk of them trading the pick. Whomever picks 3rd, should they take VJ, takes the “best fit” (per many analysts) out of the equation. If Ace isn’t regarded as highly and Tre is thought to be rather one dimensional, my fear is Jeff takes either Maluach or Knipple. It plays out similar to last year, when Castle and (yuck) Sheppard were off the board. I can see how VJ would be tops on their list, but dreading who is behind him.

Maybe they’d take a swing on Fears instead of those two? I could be persuaded on his upside potential being greater, and we could certainly use him as our back up PG while he develops at the next level.

I think there's a better chance of the Pelicans, Wizards, Nets, or Jazz trading up to 3 for Fears than Sixers taking Edgecombe.

Sixers are built to contend right now.

Rich4114 · Post #200 » by **Rich4114** » Tue Jun 10, 2025 5:09 pm

Bassman wrote:Perhaps the biggest challenge: what happens if the Sixers take VJ? I know there’s lots of possibilities at 3, and some talk of them trading the pick. Whomever picks 3rd, should they take VJ, takes the “best fit” (per many analysts) out of the equation. If Ace isn’t regarded as highly and Tre is thought to be rather one dimensional, my fear is Jeff takes either Maluach or Knipple. It plays out similar to last year, when Castle and (yuck) Sheppard were off the board. I can see how VJ would be tops on their list, but dreading who is behind him.

Maybe they’d take a swing on Fears instead of those two? I could be persuaded on his upside potential being greater, and we could certainly use him as our back up PG while he develops at the next level.

I'm right with you man, this is a huge concern based on our limited sample size of Jeff's draft decision making. I wish we knew what their board looked like, but hopefully it is something along the lines of VJ - Ace - Kon - Tre. I could see Fears, he's a riser and might end up being really good. But at #4 if we're thinking anything else it would be an epic failure. Last year we had these conversations and then despite Clingan falling, he went way into left field and took a guy nobody on here ever heard of at this time last year.