Rumors, Random Thoughts, and non-Threadworthy Posts 18.0 Dave Cowens drove a taxi

[Devilanche]

I haven't wasted much energy on it because as long as Niko has a job there will be no AD trade. Because that requires admitting a huge mistake. And its clear from how he ran and hid from the media, he's not going to do that.

I think this is the most important reason why an AD trade is not happening . Unless Jokic or Giannis is coming back from the same trade.

[the_process]

Is there a way to work a trade between LAL/Dallas/Boston where LAL receives Gafford, Dallas gets White with Knecht plus fillers to BOS?
LAL and Dallas needs are obvious, BOS is the hard sell, simply cap relief is enough? Seconds? A 1st(who needs to pay it?)?

KY(when returns)
White
Flagg
PJ
AD

How good a player Flagg would have to be from year 1 to this team be a TRUE contender?

Holiday, maybe. Not White.

[Texas Chuck]

Darius Garland, Craig Porter Jr.
for
James Harden, Kris Dunn
?

why is cleveland downgrading from garland to harden

Downgrading in value maybe. Not downgrading on the court. Harden is the better player. I know this board cares a ton about age and I get that makes Garland have more trade value, but based on last season I'd have Harden as a clear upgrade.

[Godaddycurse]

Darius Garland, Craig Porter Jr.
for
James Harden, Kris Dunn
?

why is cleveland downgrading from garland to harden

Downgrading in value maybe. Not downgrading on the court. Harden is the better player. I know this board cares a ton about age and I get that makes Garland have more trade value, but based on last season I'd have Harden as a clear upgrade.

it hink its lateral at best and a downgrade considering Garland fits mitchell better/off ball. Harden is 10 yrs older... His shooting fell off a bit and im not confident of it boucning back at his age

[SkyHook]

Darius Garland, Craig Porter Jr.
for
James Harden, Kris Dunn
?

why is cleveland downgrading from garland to harden

Downgrading in value maybe. Not downgrading on the court. Harden is the better player. I know this board cares a ton about age and I get that makes Garland have more trade value, but based on last season I'd have Harden as a clear upgrade.

And Kris Dunn may be the best POA defender in the league.

[Texas Chuck]

Oh I don't have it neutral at all. Harden also holds up much better defensively despite prior reputation and his ability to create good offense for others is just way ahead of Garland.

I know age age age. But he's just better at basketball. Cleveland won't do it and their fans will riot, but its an on court upgrade.

[Godaddycurse]

Oh I don't have it neutral at all. Harden also holds up much better defensively despite prior reputation and his ability to create good offense for others is just way ahead of Garland.

I know age age age. But he's just better at basketball. Cleveland won't do it and their fans will riot, but its an on court upgrade.

if mitchell wasn't on the cavs i might agree with you.

[toooskies]

Oh I don't have it neutral at all. Harden also holds up much better defensively despite prior reputation and his ability to create good offense for others is just way ahead of Garland.

I know age age age. But he's just better at basketball. Cleveland won't do it and their fans will riot, but its an on court upgrade.

I wouldn’t say age is the primary concern with Harden. It’s quitting on multiple teams and disappearing in the playoffs and strip clubs and between-playoff-game personal trips and conditioning.

The FG% and TOs make me think that while he might win the eye test, he simply gives the ball to the other team too much.

[Texas Chuck]

It's not the eye test. Its Harden led offenses have consistently been at the top of the league. It's results that tell me how much better he is, not my eyes. Yes, he has notable playoff failures, but that is why you traded for Mitchell. Garland hasn't exactly got some sterling, dependable playoff resume himself.

[ReggiesKnicks]

Oh I don't have it neutral at all. Harden also holds up much better defensively despite prior reputation and his ability to create good offense for others is just way ahead of Garland.

I know age age age. But he's just better at basketball. Cleveland won't do it and their fans will riot, but its an on court upgrade.

I wouldn’t say age is the primary concern with Harden. It’s quitting on multiple teams and disappearing in the playoffs and strip clubs and between-playoff-game personal trips and conditioning.

The FG% and TOs make me think that while he might win the eye test, he simply gives the ball to the other team too much.

Steve Nash gave the ball to the other team too much as well. The two best suns offenses, 2007 and 2010, happened to be Nash's career highs in Turnovers per Game. Is it because Nash is careless or because offenses run at all-time great levels when he was in charge?

2017 and 2018 Rockets are both Top 25 Offenses of all time as well.

Furthermore, the idea that Harden is some massive playoff faller, yet ignoring Garland's yearly hocus pocus acts in May, isn't the argument you think it is.

If you simply using ESPN headlines as talking points regarding All-time great players like James Harden, you probably have never seen him play.

[Texas Chuck]

Luka was also a relatively high individual turnover guy, but Mavs teams with him dominating the ball were low turnover teams. This is why we look beyond simple box scores to determine the effectiveness of a player.


I mean heck look at OKC in the Finals, they have a whole roster of guys whose contributions in a box score look pedestrian. But when you look at how each of them fill their specific role, how helpful they all are. Caruso, Wallace, IHart, Wiggins, these guys aren't going to wow you with any numbers.

Then look at guys like RJ Barrett, Jordan Poole, Zach LaVine. Box scores tell you these are really great players, but we know that no, none of them are really elevating their teams and in fact in some cases are actively hurting them.

But when James Harden is orchestrating an offense, it tends to be a very efficient offense. You may not like his style, but his results over a long long time speak for themselves. He's not the above mentioned Nash, but he probably is Nash's successor in many ways.

[jbk1234]

Oh I don't have it neutral at all. Harden also holds up much better defensively despite prior reputation and his ability to create good offense for others is just way ahead of Garland.

I know age age age. But he's just better at basketball. Cleveland won't do it and their fans will riot, but its an on court upgrade.

You can only get there if you ignore Harden's usage and go off of counting stats (that Harden would not get next to Mitchell, or a healthy Leonard for that matter, and Atkinson would not welcome). Garland was more efficient last season and posted a higher TS%. The Cavs were more successful in the regular season and the playoffs.

The Cavs were +10.3 with Garland on the court (the Clippers were + 5.8 with Harden). Garland managed a positive +/- despite splitting rotation duties with Mitchell and Mobley in the other unit.

[djFan71]

Is there a way to work a trade between LAL/Dallas/Boston where LAL receives Gafford, Dallas gets White with Knecht plus fillers to BOS?
LAL and Dallas needs are obvious, BOS is the hard sell, simply cap relief is enough? Seconds? A 1st(who needs to pay it?)?

KY(when returns)
White
Flagg
PJ
AD

How good a player Flagg would have to be from year 1 to this team be a TRUE contender?

Change it to Jrue and you're on.

[kobe_vs_jordan]

Myles Turner going down in the NBA history books. Spent his whole career in trade rumors and keeps securing the bag lol

[Godaddycurse]

Cleveland out: Garland
Cleveland in: Jrue, 6

Boston out: Jrue
Boston in: Klay

Dallas out: Klay, Martin, Hardy
Dallas in: Poole

Washington out: Poole, 6
Washington in: Garland, Hardy (into TPE)

Sacramento out: fake 2nd
Sacramento in: Martin

Why for Cleveland: placeholder starting PG who fits well next to mitchell and a lotto pick to groom a replacement
Why for Boston: save money
Why for Dallas: add a PG
Why for Washington: get PG of future
Why for Sacramento: add a forward

[toooskies]

Garland needed surgery to fix the toe injury he had in the playoffs. Out 4-5 months.

https://www.espn.com/contributor/shams-charania/a77cd55900b6e

[Texas Chuck]

Sacramento out: fake 2nd
Sacramento in: Martin

This is small and I know Dallas gave positive value for him at the deadline(Dallas made a dumb deal), but I think the Kings would be owed some 2nds here. And there are enough teams dealing in much bigger values to throw some off without impacting value any. Or maybe Dallas just uses their 2 remaining since its their part?

But its a pretty good fix to that other thread. I love this one for Cleveland especially.

[Mavrelous]

Cleveland out: Garland
Cleveland in: Jrue, 6

Boston out: Jrue
Boston in: Klay

Dallas out: Klay, Martin, Hardy
Dallas in: Poole

Washington out: Poole, 6
Washington in: Garland, Hardy (into TPE)

Sacramento out: fake 2nd
Sacramento in: Martin

Why for Cleveland: placeholder starting PG who fits well next to mitchell and a lotto pick to groom a replacement
Why for Boston: save money
Why for Dallas: add a PG
Why for Washington: get PG of future
Why for Sacramento: add a forward

Should be Marshal instead of Martin, better player and is good value to absorb into exception.
Or Martin and BOS throws #28 to SAC, because they are getting too good a deal...

[toooskies]

Cleveland out: Garland
Cleveland in: Jrue, 6

Boston out: Jrue
Boston in: Klay

Dallas out: Klay, Martin, Hardy
Dallas in: Poole

Washington out: Poole, 6
Washington in: Garland, Hardy (into TPE)

Sacramento out: fake 2nd
Sacramento in: Martin

Why for Cleveland: placeholder starting PG who fits well next to mitchell and a lotto pick to groom a replacement
Why for Boston: save money
Why for Dallas: add a PG
Why for Washington: get PG of future
Why for Sacramento: add a forward

Dallas probably doesn't want Poole and Boston probably doesn't want to give Jrue to Cleveland.

Probably gets whittled down to Boston/Dallas/Sac where Dallas takes Jrue.

[jbk1234]

Garland needed surgery to fix the toe injury he had in the playoffs. Out 4-5 months.

https://www.espn.com/contributor/shams-charania/a77cd55900b6e

He'll get no credit for trying to gut it out and play on it either - which is precisely why agents tell their clients not to bother trying.