Trade Talk (Part 17): Early Offseason Planning

[BlacJacMac]

I'd do it if we leave Brooklyn out. I feel like that's a massive overpay for Cam Johnson.

Well, I think Johnson, Okongwu and 27th pick is the right price for Gobert, rights to re-sign Reid, Miller and Minott. In this case I'd definitely pay opportunity cost to consolidate reasonable contracts of DDV, Okongwu, Johnson and 17th, 27th and 31st around core of Edwards-McDaniels-Randle for next two years. Plus we keep Rob, TJ and Clark. In my opinion Johnson is not a starter in playoff team, but as 6th man he can be key piece of bench unit. I am okay to keep Reid at reasonable price as well, but I think at the moment Johnson is simply a better movement shooter and passer.

But if you leave out Brooklynn, you get Okongu, the 13th pick and can keep (or trade elsewhere) Naz.

Seems like much better value.

[shangrila]

I'm with BlacJacMac; if I have to choose between those 2 deals I'm doing the one straight up with Atlanta.

No real point in Cam Johnson in this scenario, since we're likely taking a step back by downgrading from Gobert to Okongwu. The deal itself would present an opportunity to further build around Ant for the future though and the followup would be Randle heading elsewhere too.

[Norseman79]

So who would an equivalent level starting PG be that Randle could land us?

[TimberKat]

I'd do it if we leave Brooklyn out. I feel like that's a massive overpay for Cam Johnson.

Well, I think Johnson, Okongwu and 27th pick is the right price for Gobert, rights to re-sign Reid, Miller and Minott. In this case I'd definitely pay opportunity cost to consolidate reasonable contracts of DDV, Okongwu, Johnson and 17th, 27th and 31st around core of Edwards-McDaniels-Randle for next two years. Plus we keep Rob, TJ and Clark. In my opinion Johnson is not a starter in playoff team, but as 6th man he can be key piece of bench unit. I am okay to keep Reid at reasonable price as well, but I think at the moment Johnson is simply a better movement shooter and passer.

I don't see how this trade improves the team. The pick is useless. We have no interior defense. Johnson hasn't shown he could step up as the #2 or #3 guy. Okongwu don't do much for me. Maybe if we keep Gobert, move Randle or Naz to get Johnson is more interesting. Have JMcD play PF and Cam at SF with Gobert, Ant, and a good PG.

[cmoss84]

Atl: Rudy, Cam Johnson, RD
Mia: Randle
Brk: Trae, Duncan Robinson, Minott
MN: Ware and Daniels

Resign Naz. Extend Daniels and Clark.
Mike/Daniels/draft pick or FA
Ant/DD/Clark
Jaden/TSJ
Naz/draft pick or FA/Miller
Ware/draft pick or FA

So...ahhh...guess nobody liked this one. I'm still learning. Where'd I go sideways? Who wouldn't accept?

[shrink]

Gobert is needed. Two man line ups

Gobert + Naz: +11.8
Gobert + Randle: +5.4
Naz + Randle: +2.4

[minimus]

I'd do it if we leave Brooklyn out. I feel like that's a massive overpay for Cam Johnson.

Well, I think Johnson, Okongwu and 27th pick is the right price for Gobert, rights to re-sign Reid, Miller and Minott. In this case I'd definitely pay opportunity cost to consolidate reasonable contracts of DDV, Okongwu, Johnson and 17th, 27th and 31st around core of Edwards-McDaniels-Randle for next two years. Plus we keep Rob, TJ and Clark. In my opinion Johnson is not a starter in playoff team, but as 6th man he can be key piece of bench unit. I am okay to keep Reid at reasonable price as well, but I think at the moment Johnson is simply a better movement shooter and passer.

But if you leave out Brooklynn, you get Okongu, the 13th pick and can keep (or trade elsewhere) Naz.

Seems like much better value.

1) It depends on how much you value Cameron Johnson. To me he is an elite movement shooter, in draft equivalent he is at least Kon Knueppel. Plus he is on a adequate contract

2) as I heard in defense one podcast: if you let Reid go, who replaces him on the bench? In this case Johnson as scorer from the bench, plus Cam can work as shooter playing with Randle, McDaniels

3) I don't want Mann contract, sending his bad contract to Brooklyn gives TC a room to operate in future

P.S. To me Gobert downgrade to Okongwu might be critical, but I hope a bigman from draft (Sorber/Kalkbrenner) might provide some defensive presence in the paint and be long term answer at C. Especially considering Gobert decline.

[Norseman79]

Atl: Rudy, Cam Johnson, RD
Mia: Randle
Brk: Trae, Duncan Robinson, Minott
MN: Ware and Daniels

Resign Naz. Extend Daniels and Clark.
Mike/Daniels/draft pick or FA
Ant/DD/Clark
Jaden/TSJ
Naz/draft pick or FA/Miller
Ware/draft pick or FA

So...ahhh...guess nobody liked this one. I'm still learning. Where'd I go sideways? Who wouldn't accept?

Honestly, at this point I think there's a better chance they would give up Trey Young than Dyson Daniels.

[shrink]

Atl: Rudy, Cam Johnson, RD
Mia: Randle
Brk: Trae, Duncan Robinson, Minott
MN: Ware and Daniels

Resign Naz. Extend Daniels and Clark.
Mike/Daniels/draft pick or FA
Ant/DD/Clark
Jaden/TSJ
Naz/draft pick or FA/Miller
Ware/draft pick or FA

So...ahhh...guess nobody liked this one. I'm still learning. Where'd I go sideways? Who wouldn't accept?

Maybe I’m persnickety, but for me, I find it hard to evaluate four and even three team trades if they aren’t formatted what each team is giving and getting.

It’s hard to get a bead on how valuable the MIA front office values their players from the enthusiastic MIA fans here, but it sounds like they think Ware is untouchable, so they might not do it. Personally, I like MIA as a realistic destination for Randle.

MIA IN: Randle
MIA OUT: Ware + Duncan Robinson

It feels like Trae and Gobert are yin and yang players, destined to unite. Plus Trae could throw lobs to Rudy better than Ant.

[Danimals]

Gobert is needed. Two man line ups

Gobert + Naz: +11.8
Gobert + Randle: +5.4
Naz + Randle: +2.4

This is an important part of why moving on from Randle makes so much sense. Naz is also likely to have a much friendlier contract.

Randle+ for some combo of some upgrade at PG, assets, or improved rotation depth. Some approximate ideas…

Randle and 17 for Ware and Robinson
Randle for Jrue and a future asset from Boston
Randle and 17 for Johnson from Brooklyn
Randle, DDV, and 17 for KD
Randle, DDV, Dilly, 17, and 31 for ???

Bottom line move on from Randle first.

[Norseman79]

The best Randle trade that is also possible with Miami would be...

Miami in: Randle
Out: Rozier, Jovic, 2025 1rst

MN in: Rozier, Jovic, 2025 1rst
Out: Randle

Still have other pieces to trade to round out roster. Rozier is at the very least an average NBA starter if healthy, Jovic can play for Miami, he can play for us. Decent front court depth with the potential to stretch the floor. Backup power forward not starter.

[Danimals]

I’d do that trade, but would want a future asset instead of another pick this year.

[Norseman79]

I’d do that trade, but would want a future asset instead of another pick this year.

I wouldn't argue. I only took this years as I was lazy, it could be packaged with others for another trade, or even used to acquire future first instead

[TimberKat]

The best Randle trade that is also possible with Miami would be...

Miami in: Randle
Out: Rozier, Jovic, 2025 1rst

MN in: Rozier, Jovic, 2025 1rst
Out: Randle

Still have other pieces to trade to round out roster. Rozier is at the very least an average NBA starter if healthy, Jovic can play for Miami, he can play for us. Decent front court depth with the potential to stretch the floor. Backup power forward not starter.

I hope not. I rather take Wiggins back. The 2025 1st or any first round picks beyond 5th for that matter, is not going to help us. We aren't a rebuilding team. We are two time conference final team trying to get to the next level and don't have time to develop young talents. I see too many trade proposals that feels like a step back.

[Norseman79]

The best Randle trade that is also possible with Miami would be...

Miami in: Randle
Out: Rozier, Jovic, 2025 1rst

MN in: Rozier, Jovic, 2025 1rst
Out: Randle

Still have other pieces to trade to round out roster. Rozier is at the very least an average NBA starter if healthy, Jovic can play for Miami, he can play for us. Decent front court depth with the potential to stretch the floor. Backup power forward not starter.

I hope not. I rather take Wiggins back. The 2025 1st or any first round picks beyond 5th for that matter, is not going to help us. We aren't a rebuilding team. We are two time conference final team trying to get to the next level and don't have time to develop young talents. I see too many trade proposals that feels like a step back.

As opposed to losing him for nothing or overpaying?

Here is the part no one is saying, if Ant truly is special, McDaniels is the defensive presence people want to believe, and Finch is a great coach....then getting pieces that fit without being "stars" should not change success or trajectory (assuming Tim C finds the right players and Finch can actually mold and shape offense and defense.) Example, a 3&D pf like Jabari Smith Jr should fit and function better than Naz or Randle and at a smaller price.

[Danimals]

The best Randle trade that is also possible with Miami would be...

Miami in: Randle
Out: Rozier, Jovic, 2025 1rst

MN in: Rozier, Jovic, 2025 1rst
Out: Randle

Still have other pieces to trade to round out roster. Rozier is at the very least an average NBA starter if healthy, Jovic can play for Miami, he can play for us. Decent front court depth with the potential to stretch the floor. Backup power forward not starter.

I hope not. I rather take Wiggins back. The 2025 1st or any first round picks beyond 5th for that matter, is not going to help us. We aren't a rebuilding team. We are two time conference final team trying to get to the next level and don't have time to develop young talents. I see too many trade proposals that feels like a step back.

As opposed to losing him for nothing or overpaying?

Here is the part no one is saying, if Ant truly is special, McDaniels is the defensive presence people want to believe, and Finch is a great coach....then getting pieces that fit without being "stars" should not change success or trajectory (assuming Tim C finds the right players and Finch can actually mold and shape offense and defense.) Example, a 3&D pf like Jabari Smith Jr should fit and function better than Naz or Randle and at a smaller price.

Naz over Smith Jr. for me. Compare per36 stars. Naz has higher usage, scores more on higher efficiency, more threes on higher percentage, equal rebounds. Smith is a better defender, but we don’t need a lower usage defensive specialist between Rudy and Jaden. Now give me Smith Jr on our bench…

[Norseman79]

I hope not. I rather take Wiggins back. The 2025 1st or any first round picks beyond 5th for that matter, is not going to help us. We aren't a rebuilding team. We are two time conference final team trying to get to the next level and don't have time to develop young talents. I see too many trade proposals that feels like a step back.

As opposed to losing him for nothing or overpaying?

Here is the part no one is saying, if Ant truly is special, McDaniels is the defensive presence people want to believe, and Finch is a great coach....then getting pieces that fit without being "stars" should not change success or trajectory (assuming Tim C finds the right players and Finch can actually mold and shape offense and defense.) Example, a 3&D pf like Jabari Smith Jr should fit and function better than Naz or Randle and at a smaller price.

Naz over Smith Jr. for me. Compare per36 stars. Naz has higher usage, scores more on higher efficiency, more threes on higher percentage, equal rebounds. Smith is a better defender, but we don’t need a lower usage defensive specialist between Rudy and Jaden. Now give me Smith Jr on our bench…

Well everything you said is true, you also have to consider teams that they play on and supporting cast. Also, look at Smith Jr's game from college and how it's translated so far and how much further it could go. Like I said, sometimes you have to put your faith in the superstar and the coach to bring out the best in others especially at a far lesser price.

[cmoss84]

Is there a discount on Garland now that he had surgery and will miss 4-5 months? Would you trade Randle for Garland?

From ESPN...
"Garland was one of two players to average 20 points, 5 assists and 40% shooting on 3-pointers this season, along with Denver Nuggets' star Nikola Jokic. He made 212 3-pointers this season, third most in team history."

[BlacJacMac]

Is there a discount on Garland now that he had surgery and will miss 4-5 months? Would you trade Randle for Garland?

From ESPN...
"Garland was one of two players to average 20 points, 5 assists and 40% shooting on 3-pointers this season, along with Denver Nuggets' star Nikola Jokic. He made 212 3-pointers this season, third most in team history."

Don't want Garland at all.

[TimberKat]

Is there a discount on Garland now that he had surgery and will miss 4-5 months? Would you trade Randle for Garland?

From ESPN...
"Garland was one of two players to average 20 points, 5 assists and 40% shooting on 3-pointers this season, along with Denver Nuggets' star Nikola Jokic. He made 212 3-pointers this season, third most in team history."

Don't want Garland at all.

Why not? Do we have better options? I also don't think Randle is what Cavs are looking for. Actually, don't see Cavs really trade Garland this year besides Cap reasons.