Windhorst: Raptors making noise around the league looking for a “big fish” // Giannis & Toronto "Mutual Interest"/KD too

[OakleyDokely]

Beal? Lol.

I wouldn't compare Toronto vs PHX in any scenario. The reason why PHX didn't win wasn't because of Booker/KD, it was because they had zero defense and depth. They weren't a team.

Ya, the Suns roster construction was terrible. The C position was a blackhole. They had very little depth. Nobody played any defense.

Ya, but moving the Raps only legit C, and a better fit role player in RJ, to get KD, who's skills overlap with BI, seems like the Raps would be heading down the Suns path.

Raps would need to fill the C position for sure, but they'd still be left with a lot of cheap talent to fill gaps -- Dick, Walter, Ochai, Shead, Mogbo, Battle

[WuTang_OG]

Houston's offer is probably FVV, Eason, Whitmore, and Phoenix's picks (how many, who knows?)

They have to keep FVV

Why? If they are making a KD trade before the draft, I don't know if they have a lot of options.

Because they still need guard play. they also aren't giving up those PHX picks because they know they are going to implode. When you actually break it down for HOU, they don't got a ton of options.

[WuTang_OG]

Beal? Lol.

I wouldn't compare Toronto vs PHX in any scenario. The reason why PHX didn't win wasn't because of Booker/KD, it was because they had zero defense and depth. They weren't a team.

Ya, the Suns roster construction was terrible. The C position was a blackhole. They had very little depth. Nobody played any defense.

Ya, but moving the Raps only legit C, and a better fit role player in RJ, to get KD, who's skills overlap with BI, seems like the Raps would be heading down the Suns path.

Nope. Completely different scenarios as stated already.

[OakleyDokely]

C - FA/Draft/Trade
F Barnes - Mogbo
F Durant - Ochai
F Ingram - Dick - Battle
G IQ - Walter - Shead

[JB7]

They have to keep FVV

Why? If they are making a KD trade before the draft, I don't know if they have a lot of options.

Because they still need guard play. they also aren't giving up those PHX picks because they know they are going to implode. When you actually break it down for HOU, they don't got a ton of options.

They acquired those Suns picks so they could make a deal for Durant or Booker. They still need an end of game clutch scorer. I think they are probably trying to squeeze the Suns right now, because they are so desperate. Maybe they only give them back this years pick and and the 2027 pick, but keep the swap in 2026 (good draft, and Suns will be crap next season).

Houston's future at guard is not FVV. It is probably Sheppard.

[WuTang_OG]

Why? If they are making a KD trade before the draft, I don't know if they have a lot of options.

Because they still need guard play. they also aren't giving up those PHX picks because they know they are going to implode. When you actually break it down for HOU, they don't got a ton of options.

They acquired those Suns picks so they could make a deal for Durant or Booker. They still need an end of game clutch scorer. I think they are probably trying to squeeze the Suns right now, because they are so desperate. Maybe they only give them back this years pick and and the 2027 pick, but keep the swap in 2026 (good draft, and Suns will be crap next season).

Houston's future at guard is not FVV. It is probably Sheppard.

They aren't giving those picks for 1 year of Durant. Think of how valuable they are going to be. PHX is a sinking ship. They would for Booker but he's not on the table. Also, Shepperd isn't ready thus why they dont want to give up on FVV.

[JB7]

Ya, the Suns roster construction was terrible. The C position was a blackhole. They had very little depth. Nobody played any defense.

Ya, but moving the Raps only legit C, and a better fit role player in RJ, to get KD, who's skills overlap with BI, seems like the Raps would be heading down the Suns path.

Nope. Completely different scenarios as stated already.

Other than the Raps are in the East, and because of Durant's contract situation and age (the Raps would not need to give up as much), I don't think it is that different.

Raps regardless are going to be a better team in the East next season. Adding Durant won't make them a contender next season, but will weaken them longer term (giving up younger assets for a vet with probably a couple of years left).

[WuTang_OG]

Ya, but moving the Raps only legit C, and a better fit role player in RJ, to get KD, who's skills overlap with BI, seems like the Raps would be heading down the Suns path.

Nope. Completely different scenarios as stated already.

Other than the Raps are in the East, and because of Durant's contract situation and age (the Raps would not need to give up as much), I don't think it is that different.

Raps regardless are going to be a better team in the East next season. Adding Durant won't make them a contender next season, but will weaken them longer term (giving up younger assets for a vet with probably a couple of years left).

Very much different. Better depth and better defense. Also, better coaching/system. PHX was a mess. Not even a question.

[OakleyDokely]

The Raps were injured/tanking most of the season and still finished 15th in defensive rating. The Suns were trying to win and they had a defensive rating ranking them 27th.

[JB7]

Because they still need guard play. they also aren't giving up those PHX picks because they know they are going to implode. When you actually break it down for HOU, they don't got a ton of options.

They acquired those Suns picks so they could make a deal for Durant or Booker. They still need an end of game clutch scorer. I think they are probably trying to squeeze the Suns right now, because they are so desperate. Maybe they only give them back this years pick and and the 2027 pick, but keep the swap in 2026 (good draft, and Suns will be crap next season).

Houston's future at guard is not FVV. It is probably Sheppard.

They aren't giving those picks for 1 year of Durant. Think of how valuable they are going to be. PHX is a sinking ship. They would for Booker but he's not on the table. Also, Shepperd isn't ready thus why they dont want to give up on FVV.

They also are not interested in paying FVV that option, and will need to negotiate a lower deal, which who knows if Fred is happy with that. And the 2025 pick is what #10? Is there a player at #10 this draft that would make a huge difference on the Rockets? The 2026 swap is probably the most valuable piece. 2026 is also a strong draft, and maybe the Rockets luck into a high pick with that swap. I have not heard much about the 2027 draft, so who knows how strong that draft will be.

[JB7]

Nope. Completely different scenarios as stated already.

Other than the Raps are in the East, and because of Durant's contract situation and age (the Raps would not need to give up as much), I don't think it is that different.

Raps regardless are going to be a better team in the East next season. Adding Durant won't make them a contender next season, but will weaken them longer term (giving up younger assets for a vet with probably a couple of years left).

Very much different. Better depth and better defense. Also, better coaching/system. PHX was a mess. Not even a question.

The depth is all in the positions their starters are playing:

C - FA/Draft/Trade
F Barnes - Mogbo
F Durant - Ochai
F Ingram - Dick - Battle
G IQ - Walter - Shead

If Durant, BI, Barnes & IQ are looking to play 34 mins a game, depth does not really matter, unless there are injuries. The critical weakness is still the C position.

[WuTang_OG]

They acquired those Suns picks so they could make a deal for Durant or Booker. They still need an end of game clutch scorer. I think they are probably trying to squeeze the Suns right now, because they are so desperate. Maybe they only give them back this years pick and and the 2027 pick, but keep the swap in 2026 (good draft, and Suns will be crap next season).

Houston's future at guard is not FVV. It is probably Sheppard.

They aren't giving those picks for 1 year of Durant. Think of how valuable they are going to be. PHX is a sinking ship. They would for Booker but he's not on the table. Also, Shepperd isn't ready thus why they dont want to give up on FVV.

They also are not interested in paying FVV that option, and will need to negotiate a lower deal, which who knows if Fred is happy with that. And the 2025 pick is what #10? Is there a player at #10 this draft that would make a huge difference on the Rockets? The 2026 swap is probably the most valuable piece. 2026 is also a strong draft, and maybe the Rockets luck into a high pick with that swap. I have not heard much about the 2027 draft, so who knows how strong that draft will be.

All things point to negotiating a lower deal with FVV. The PHX picks are too valuable right now and will be even more valuable once PHX stinks again next season.

[JB7]

The Raps were injured/tanking most of the season and still finished 15th in defensive rating. The Suns were trying to win and they had a defensive rating ranking them 27th.

A massive part of that defense is going out the door in the deal though, and not being replaced.

[WuTang_OG]

Other than the Raps are in the East, and because of Durant's contract situation and age (the Raps would not need to give up as much), I don't think it is that different.

Raps regardless are going to be a better team in the East next season. Adding Durant won't make them a contender next season, but will weaken them longer term (giving up younger assets for a vet with probably a couple of years left).

Very much different. Better depth and better defense. Also, better coaching/system. PHX was a mess. Not even a question.

The depth is all in the positions their starters are playing:

C - FA/Draft/Trade
F Barnes - Mogbo
F Durant - Ochai
F Ingram - Dick - Battle
G IQ - Walter - Shead

If Durant, BI, Barnes & IQ are looking to play 34 mins a game, depth does not really matter, unless there are injuries. The critical weakness is still the C position.

Depth of course matters. You don't win anymore without it. They will be load managing these guys also. Dick, JKW, Ochai, 9th pick, Mogbo will all be important next season if Raps can pull it off.

[OakleyDokely]

The Raps were injured/tanking most of the season and still finished 15th in defensive rating. The Suns were trying to win and they had a defensive rating ranking them 27th.

A massive part of that defense is going out the door in the deal though, and not being replaced.

It would be replaced, we just don't know who that guy would be.

Raps wouldn't go into the season with just Mogbo. They'd have to make follow up moves.

[mademan]

Im not sure why we're keeping Ingram in these trades. He seems like the easier guy to move in a KD swap. We need bigs, we have lots of guards/wings, and we'd be adding KD. It should be ingram/RJ+, no Jak

[djsunyc]

having KD as your lone scorer is not a recipe for success. need to have ingram and IQ remain.

[OakleyDokely]

KD this past season vs Kawhi's year in TOR

KD: 62 GMS, 36.5 MIN, 26.6 PPG, 6.0 REB, 4.2 AST, 0.8 STL, 1.2 BLK, .527 FG, .430 3PT, .839 FT, .642 TS, 28.7 USG
KL: 60 GMS, 34.0 MIN, 26.6 PPG, 7.3 REB, 3.3 AST, 1.8 STL, 0.4 BLK, .496 FG, .371 3PT, .854 FT, .606 TS, 30.3 USG

[TerryTate]

IMO, I think Giannis would be more impactful than KD on the raps as is.

Giannis I think could be attained by packaging Scotty + salary + picks (Dick, Walter, 9th). Personally, I would keep Ochai and RJ. I would rather keep solid performers over potential, if we're going for Giannis, we're basically trading most of our picks/assets, we need our performers.

Not sure about KD's contract status, but we would have to trade even more to get KD. Also, I feel like BI, is pretty much KD-lite. And, I don't think it shows good faith in trading someone that just signed a contract extension. No reason to trade Poetl in a KD trade. We are still going to need a C and backup C. As mentioned earlier, I would try seeing if they are willing to package Brook with Giannis and that would solve our Backup C problem.

I would even consider an IQ/Jamal Murray swap as well. Give a bit more burn to Shead for the first half of the season and let Murray rest more the first half. I would want him ready for the playoffs.

[bboyskinnylegs]

the Ingram/Scottie/KD trio is what elevates this team to a different tier imo. Yes, finding a passable C will be important, but I think that is achievable with the assets we'd still have available.