Free Agent, Trade, Buyout, Extension & Conversion Thread, 2025 con't

[hugepatsfan]

Trade idea of the day.

ATL- Porzingis
DET - Niang
BOS - Mann, #13 - 2025, 2027 2nd round pick (CLE), 2027 2nd round pick (MIL)

Celtics cut $15.2 million.

Idk what happened to Mann but he seemed like a decent player at one point. Would be great value if he managed to bounce back but I like the buy low approach while getting paid to do so

ATL just traded Bogi on a shorter deal and some 2nds for him at the deadline. Very positive value. I doubt their evaluation has changed enough that they'd sell him at a negative valuation.

[Curmudgeon]

If Stevens gets nobodies back for his stars, I'd be willing to bet that those nobodies turn out to be decent players. He has an eye for high IQ players. His only real miss so far has been Tillman, although injuries may have had something to do with that.

[redslastlaugh]

I wouldn't call Tillman a miss, he played important minutes in a big Finals win... Jaden Springer, on the other hand, that was a miss!

If Stevens gets nobodies back for his stars, I'd be willing to bet that those nobodies turn out to be decent players. He has an eye for high IQ players. His only real miss so far has been Tillman, although injuries may have had something to do with that.

[CelticFaninLBC]

Trade idea of the day.

ATL- Porzingis
DET - Niang
BOS - Mann, #13 - 2025, 2027 2nd round pick (CLE), 2027 2nd round pick (MIL)

Celtics cut $15.2 million.

Doubtful Atlanta gives up the #13 unless Hauser's added to the deal.

Porzingis and Hauser for Mann and Niang works in the fanspo trade checker.

[playa-hater]

I’ve said they aren’t paying to dump guys and more likely to get positive value to live salary from the beginning.

There’s going to be a bunch of teams that make moves and pay value to improve and the Celtics have some of the better players available.

Just look down the league’s teams that don’t have control of their first round pick, or have stunk forever and need to start competing, or have had some recent success they need to build on, or all three. It’s a long list.

This ^ is probably my biggest "Hope" for this offseason.

[playa-hater]

If Brad did trade Jaylen for the #2 pick, I doubt Brad would select Dylan Harper because of his 3pt shooting numbers and need for the ball. I think Brad would take Tre Johnson out of Texas as an ideal type of player who can succeed when Tatum controls the ball for 40 minutes a night...

I don't think Brad cares about consensus rankings and at the combine Brad put in to interview Cooper and Tre, not Dylan Harper

If Brad Stevens feels Dylan Harper could be another Cade Cunningham Type-player you absolutely attempt to trade Brown for him.

Interesting I have taken a good look at Harper and not really looked at Tre Johnson. Figured Harper is a near lock at #2. But you could be right.

[Curmudgeon]

Jrue Holiday is the kind of player who turns a contender into a champion. He's done it twice. There will be multiple bidders for his services. The Timberwolves, to name just one team, would die for a player like Jrue. The Clippers and Cavs too. Jrue for Jarrett Allen makes sense for both teams if the Cavs are able to move Garland elsewhere. There's Houston also.

[Hal14]

If Brad did trade Jaylen for the #2 pick, I doubt Brad would select Dylan Harper because of his 3pt shooting numbers and need for the ball. I think Brad would take Tre Johnson out of Texas as an ideal type of player who can succeed when Tatum controls the ball for 40 minutes a night...

I don't think Brad cares about consensus rankings and at the combine Brad put in to interview Cooper and Tre, not Dylan Harper

If Brad Stevens feels Dylan Harper could be another Cade Cunningham Type-player you absolutely attempt to trade Brown for him.

You don't draft based on fit/need that high in the draft..you pick the BPA.

We didn't really have a need for Tatum when we drafted him. There's other guys who would have been a better fit. But he was the BPA.

Picking based on fit/need rather than BPA is what the suns and kings did when the mistakenly drafted Bagley and Ayton over Luka. And when the Blazers took Sam Bowie over MJ. There's many other examples.

Tre Johnson is not the caliber prospect that Harper is. Tre is a good shooter, yes. But He's very limited as a defender, he struggles to create separation from his defender to create space or pressure the rim. Struggles to finish near the rim too. Had historically low TRB% and guys who rebound so poorly for their position in college typically don't do so well in the NBA.

I'm not too worried about Harper's 3 pt numbers. He was an 18 yr old freshman, had to carry a large amount of his team's offense, had to self create a large % of his 3PA which are harder to make than catch and shoot looks..

Read on Twitter

But again, it's likely a moot point as I doubt we trade up that high..

[165bows]

Brad could have gotten a 2030 pick swap with Dallas for Grant Williams in that S&T but instead he let SAS have it because they didn't want to take back the salary of Reggie Bullock to push them into the 2nd apron at the time (later on they decided Jrue was worth it to go over).

They didn't have to give up Josh Richardson in the Derrick White trade. They had a TPE that fit White, but giving up JRich allowed them to duck the tax.

I don't doubt that they can get "value" for Jrue in the form of decent players under contract or some late/protected 1st. I just think that Brad has shown us repeatedly in the past that on the margins of the roster and with lower value assets he's willing to sacrifice for the cap sheet and I expect that happen again here. I think they will prioritize salary savings over getting a marginally better player back.

True, he’s generally been savvy with the cap management just like player assets. Though they’ve also spent around the margins when they didn’t need to as well (eg Jaden Springer last year).

But they’ve generally spent beyond what the large majority of even pretty knowledgeable people have estimated they could or would. 2024 wouldn’t have happened otherwise.

[djFan71]

If Brad did trade Jaylen for the #2 pick, I doubt Brad would select Dylan Harper because of his 3pt shooting numbers and need for the ball. I think Brad would take Tre Johnson out of Texas as an ideal type of player who can succeed when Tatum controls the ball for 40 minutes a night...

I don't think Brad cares about consensus rankings and at the combine Brad put in to interview Cooper and Tre, not Dylan Harper

If Brad Stevens feels Dylan Harper could be another Cade Cunningham Type-player you absolutely attempt to trade Brown for him.

You don't draft based on fit/need that high in the draft..you pick the BPA.

We didn't really have a need for Tatum when we drafted him. There's other guys who would have been a better fit. But he was the BPA.

Picking based on fit/need rather than BPA is what the suns and kings did when the mistakenly drafted Bagley and Ayton over Luka. And when the Blazers took Sam Bowie over MJ. There's many other examples.

Tre Johnson is not the caliber prospect that Harper is. Tre is a good shooter, yes. But He's very limited as a defender, he struggles to create separation from his defender to create space or pressure the rim. Had historically low TRB% and guys who rebound so poorly for their position in college typically don't do so well in the NBA.

I'm not too worried about Harper's 3 pt numbers. He was an 18 yr old freshman, had to carry a large amount of his team's offense, had to self create a large % of his 3PA which are harder to make than catch and shoot looks..

Read on Twitter

But again, it's likely a moot point as I doubt we trade up that high..

I like that you're on the AVC train. His stuff is good and I like the way he makes fun of guys. It makes things entertaining. I wish he would not repeat the stock stuff in every video, but I've gotten good at skipping past it. Not all the way to the trades, though - don't wanna get called out!

[playa-hater]

Most on here focus on the players we like that may be around our current picks of 28 and 32. But maybe we should take a closer look at players between 8 thru 20 since in theory there is a chance that Jrue (+ maybe 28) gets us much higher than we anticipate. I haven't read too much on who we or Brad may like at let's say 10. (example Jrue+28 to Houston for FVV +10.) Orlando or the Wolves at 16 and 17 respectively as well.

Edit.. Oopps should maybe be in Draft thread.

[Curmudgeon]

LOL, I guess Darius Garland doesn't want to be traded either.

[Hal14]

Interesting:

Read on Twitter

Putting 2 and 2 together:
-Nigel Hayes-Davis is garnering NBA interest
-A few yrs ago there were reports that we brought Hayes-Davis in for a workout and were considering signing him..but he stayed overseas instead. I wonder if things may be different now..
-maybe before we were telling him he probably wouldn't play much..just a spot on the roster as a deep bench wing. So he stayed overseas..but now with Tatum's torn achilles, Hauser/KP/Jrue/JB possibly getting traded..there could be a bit more playing time available for him. So maybe now he comes over. Plus at age 30, he might feel like it's now or never in terms of playing in the NBA..and might feel like he's got nothing left to prove in Europe at this point..

Hayes-Davis is a wing, 6'7", strong, athletic, can put the ball on the floor, defend and shoot..last 3 yrs his 3 FG% is 39, 38, 43.

You sign a guy like that to a cheap contract (cheap because he's only played in 9 total NBA games and that was 7 yrs ago and he's 30 yrs old..). And that is a way you could trim payroll, get rid of some higher priced contracts, yet still have a competitive team, even with Tatum's injury..

[redslastlaugh]

good find!

Fenerbache also has 3pt marksman Tarik biberovic whose rights are owned by Memphis and is likely to come over to the NBA soon. If Memphis is a trade partner for us this summer, could Biberovic be in the mix?

Interesting:

Read on Twitter

Putting 2 and 2 together:
-Nigel Hayes-Davis is garnering NBA interest
-A few yrs ago there were reports that we brought Hayes-Davis in for a workout and were considering signing him..but he stayed overseas instead. I wonder if things may be different now..
-maybe before we were telling him he probably wouldn't play much..just a spot on the roster as a deep bench wing. So he stayed overseas..but now with Tatum's torn achilles, Hauser/KP/Jrue/JB possibly getting traded..there could be a bit more playing time available for him.

Hayes-Davis is a wing, 6'7", strong, athletic, can put the ball on the floor, defend and shoot..last 3 yrs his 3 FG% is 39, 38, 43.

You sign a guy like that to a cheap contract (cheap because he's only played in 9 total NBA games and that was 7 yrs ago and he's 30 yrs old..). And that is a way you could trim payroll, get rid of some higher priced contracts, yet still have a competitive team, even with Tatum's injury..

[Gant]

Nigel Hayes-Davis scored 50 points in a game last season. Boston might need a forward. NBAdraft.net has him with a 7'3" wingspan.

Watch on YouTube

The Celtics have been looking at him for years. Article from 2021:

https://www.celticsblog.com/2021/7/23/22590782/celtics-and-nigel-hayes-rumored-to-have-mutual-interest-brad-stevens-ime-udoka-nba-free-agency

[Curmudgeon]

The Celtics have been looking at him for years. Article from 2021:

https://www.celticsblog.com/2021/7/23/22590782/celtics-and-nigel-hayes-rumored-to-have-mutual-interest-brad-stevens-ime-udoka-nba-free-agency

LOL, good find. Does Benas Matkevicius still work for the Celtics? He's the guy who discovered Theis, among others.

[Memokerobi]

Interesting:

Read on Twitter

Putting 2 and 2 together:
-Nigel Hayes-Davis is garnering NBA interest
-A few yrs ago there were reports that we brought Hayes-Davis in for a workout and were considering signing him..but he stayed overseas instead. I wonder if things may be different now..
-maybe before we were telling him he probably wouldn't play much..just a spot on the roster as a deep bench wing. So he stayed overseas..but now with Tatum's torn achilles, Hauser/KP/Jrue/JB possibly getting traded..there could be a bit more playing time available for him.

Hayes-Davis is a wing, 6'7", strong, athletic, can put the ball on the floor, defend and shoot..last 3 yrs his 3 FG% is 39, 38, 43.

You sign a guy like that to a cheap contract (cheap because he's only played in 9 total NBA games and that was 7 yrs ago and he's 30 yrs old..). And that is a way you could trim payroll, get rid of some higher priced contracts, yet still have a competitive team, even with Tatum's injury..

Ok I can chime in on this since I watch Fener regularly. Nigel Hayes had a big jump into Euroleague superstardom after signing with us. He even got invited to the roster to scrimmage against the US Olympic squad last year. He’s strong and athletic like Hal said but also likes posting up and driving to the rim. Could be a nice wing option that we currently dont have on the roster.

Also, even if not for a player, I think its good for Joe to go watch Fener and maybe talk to Saras (their coach) to get some ideas flowing. Brad used to run Obradovic’s sets so its not a bad place to get inspired

[hugepatsfan]

Brad could have gotten a 2030 pick swap with Dallas for Grant Williams in that S&T but instead he let SAS have it because they didn't want to take back the salary of Reggie Bullock to push them into the 2nd apron at the time (later on they decided Jrue was worth it to go over).

They didn't have to give up Josh Richardson in the Derrick White trade. They had a TPE that fit White, but giving up JRich allowed them to duck the tax.

I don't doubt that they can get "value" for Jrue in the form of decent players under contract or some late/protected 1st. I just think that Brad has shown us repeatedly in the past that on the margins of the roster and with lower value assets he's willing to sacrifice for the cap sheet and I expect that happen again here. I think they will prioritize salary savings over getting a marginally better player back.

True, he’s generally been savvy with the cap management just like player assets. Though they’ve also spent around the margins when they didn’t need to as well (eg Jaden Springer last year).

But they’ve generally spent beyond what the large majority of even pretty knowledgeable people have estimated they could or would. 2024 wouldn’t have happened otherwise.

It's all about the thresholds. People were skeptic we'd take on the salary we did in the Brogdon deal... but that was just a matter of a tax team already being more in the tax. The Springer deal was an expensive gamble, but it just took you further into the threshold. The Bullock/JRich scenarios I mentioned... those were a matter of being over vs. under a threshold with long term implications so in those deals they got "frugal".

I expect the offseason will come down to thresholds again. There are real basketball penalties if we stay over the 2nd apron this year. Before it even gets to ownership, I think Stevens from a basketball standpoint will want to duck those penalties since Tatum is out for all/most of the year. I don't think it's about $$$ on that one.

The luxury tax threshold is a question mark. I expect Brad will have real conversations with ownership about what spending will be in the future and what caliber of player/team would they be ok spending more for. From there, Brad will crunch the numbers and decide if it's worth ducking the tax this year. If ownership has a relatively low spending limit for the next 4-5 years then I think he'll prioritize resetting repeater rates so he can concentrate those resources after the reset and make sure he's putting together truly championship caliber teams. If limits are more lax or at least flexible to go up for a player or collection of talent that's really worth it, maybe don't need to reset.

Whatever threshold they decide to set it at, I expect they'll hit and sacrifice value on the margins if they need to. Maybe that's attaching some lower value draft currency to dump guys or taking back less than ideal players.

[redslastlaugh]

A lot of these luxury tax problems just come down to Brad not getting anything out of the draft. For whatever reason, Coach Mazzulla doesn't like rookies, Scheierman said these were Joe's exact words to him. Which is like, whatever, a mystery.
OKC has 7 of their roster players on rookie scale contracts at present. Having guys for four years at a few million bucks per is fundamentally the solution here, it's what Pop did in SA and it's just not Brad Stevens MO...
But even Doc Rivers, who has a reputation for not playing rookies, played 1st and 2nd yr guys as C's coach. Last night youtube suggested me fullgame 2005 C's vs Mavs and I put it on late at night to watch. Fun watch by the way, Mike and Tommy in 2005 is around their prime as broadcasters imo...

Anyway, that team we had acquired Gary Payton the previous summer and had just brought back Antoine Walker at the time of the Mavs game. And we're fighting for playoff positioning and in the first half Doc was playing Marcus Banks, Delonte West, Al Jefferson and Tony Allen... who were all rookies and sophomores and it was really stark seeing how much Doc leaned on those guys versus how we are running our development today

fundamentally, it's just a mystery why the team doesn't see the financial benefit of bringing your rookies up as fast as possible. You look at Denver with Christian Braun and the wins shares he's produced in his first 3 yrs and anyway... this is something of a digression... but all of these thresholds and whatnot are just a function of having only 2 dudes on the roster presently on rookie scale contracts anf five guys making > $25 million

It's all about the thresholds. People were skeptic we'd take on the salary we did in the Brogdon deal... but that was just a matter of a tax team already being more in the tax. The Springer deal was an expensive gamble, but it just took you further into the threshold. The Bullock/JRich scenarios I mentioned... those were a matter of being over vs. under a threshold with long term implications so in those deals they got "frugal".

I expect the offseason will come down to thresholds again. There are real basketball penalties if we stay over the 2nd apron this year. Before it even gets to ownership, I think Stevens from a basketball standpoint will want to duck those penalties since Tatum is out for all/most of the year. I don't think it's about $$$ on that one.

The luxury tax threshold is a question mark. I expect Brad will have real conversations with ownership about what spending will be in the future and what caliber of player/team would they be ok spending more for. From there, Brad will crunch the numbers and decide if it's worth ducking the tax this year. If ownership has a relatively low spending limit for the next 4-5 years then I think he'll prioritize resetting repeater rates so he can concentrate those resources after the reset and make sure he's putting together truly championship caliber teams. If limits are more lax or at least flexible to go up for a player or collection of talent that's really worth it, maybe don't need to reset.

Whatever threshold they decide to set it at, I expect they'll hit and sacrifice value on the margins if they need to. Maybe that's attaching some lower value draft currency to dump guys or taking back less than ideal players.

[fallguy]

Trade Tatum and build around Hayes-Davis.