Blazers/Lakers/Bucks

[Wizenheimer]

Lillaed is a much worse contract than Grant is... I don't know if you guys know this but Damian Lillard was not a very good Defender before ripping his achilles... he is likely to be the worst defender in the history of the NBA when he gets back at 65million a year to boot

I've seen that 65M number before....it's false

[nykballa2k4]

Ayton is an MLE center paid the max, Hachimura alone has more value than him.

Ayton is horrendously underrated. He can score 20, he can block shots, he can make free throws, gather boards. Even if he hasn't gotten any better than we was from the Suns finals run, that's still a better center and a more complete center than half the dudes in the league.
Rui is a nice player, but he is the Tobias Harris of Tobias Harrises.

Nets wouldn't take Rui for a top 55 protected pick into their cap space.
Change Ayton to Kuzma and you have an argument to make, but yeah, Ayton is being severely undersold here...

Ayton was traded for Nurkic, and spent his contract on a tanking team.
Nets will take Hachimura way before taking Ayton, you're way off on your valuation.

Nets don't need a center so yeah... he would be a weird get for them. If they didn't have Claxton, that's a different scenario.

Also Suns traded him away as part of a means to get Beal because they thought Beal was a third superstar. That bad trade does not really change the value for Ayton today.

[nykballa2k4]

Ayton is horrendously underrated. He can score 20, he can block shots, he can make free throws, gather boards. .

he can score 20 when he's shooting 16 or 17 times a game

but he is trash as a rim protector and may be the worst big in the NBA at getting to the FT line. LOL...he averaged 1 FT a game last season. He's a poor defender and is bad at setting screens. He's a nearly useless modern C; a poster boy for empty stats

and yes, I'm a Blazer fan who has watched him for 2 seasons

his stats tell a different story.

[Texas Chuck]

Tell me the stat you have for setting screens and which one you are using for defense.

We know he puts up 15/10 on decent efficiency. But what basically everyone else is telling you is that there is little value to that when he refuses to do the things teams ask centers to do and what the Lakers specifically would ask him to do.

Plus he's overpaid. And you want the Lakers to give up no bad salary, a decent prospect, and an unprotected first or swap. It's just wild.

[Wizenheimer]

Ayton is horrendously underrated. He can score 20, he can block shots, he can make free throws, gather boards. .

he can score 20 when he's shooting 16 or 17 times a game

but he is trash as a rim protector and may be the worst big in the NBA at getting to the FT line. LOL...he averaged 1 FT a game last season. He's a poor defender and is bad at setting screens. He's a nearly useless modern C; a poster boy for empty stats

and yes, I'm a Blazer fan who has watched him for 2 seasons

his stats tell a different story.

they absolutely do not

as for rim protection, this season...blocked shot rate:

Victor Wembanyama 10.4
Donovan Clingan 7.5
Walker Kessler 7.4
Myles Turner 6.0
Anthony Davis 6.0
Brook Lopez 5.4
Nic Claxton 5.3
Peyton Watson 5.0
Alex Sarr 5.0
Yves Missi 4.8
Evan Mobley 4.7
Jaren Jackson Jr. 4.7
Matas Buzelis 4.3
Jalen Duren 4.2
Rudy Gobert 4.1
Jakob Poeltl 4.0
Isaiah Hartenstein 3.9
Amen Thompson 3.6
Ivica Zubac 3.4
Draymond Green 3.4
Kevin Durant 3.2
Giannis Antetokounmpo 3.2
Keon Ellis 3.2
Naz Reid 3.0
Onyeka Okongwu 3.0
Shai Gilgeous-Alexander 3.0
Derrick White 2.9
Deandre Ayton 2.9

a 6'3 guard is better at blocking shots than Ayton is

do you want to know how bad Ayton's overall defense was? When he was on the floor, the Blazers gave up an average of 118.4 points/100-possessions. When he was off the floor Portland gave up an average of 113.6 points. In other words, the Blazer defense was actually 4.8 points worse when Ayton was on the floor. And for all the chatter about his offense, Portland had a better offense without Ayton than with him. They also had a better record without him

as far as getting to the FT line and drawing fouls, this season out of 231 tracked players, Ayton ranked 189th in FT Rate

Yes, he can shoot well in the mid-range and convert well at the rim; and he's a strong rebounder, at least on defense. But all of those critical skills people look for in a C: rim protection, paint defense, versatile defense, screen-setting, drawing fouls, offensive rebounding, post passing...he's nearly useless. But he does get paid 35M/year

don't get me wrong, as a Blazer fan who detests Ayton I'd love it if you can template a trade that gets Ayton out of Portland. He's terrible IMO. I didn't really like Hassan Whiteside and kind of agreed about his empty stats. But Whiteside, as a Blazer, was better than Ayton in just about every single way, save one.

[nykballa2k4]

he can score 20 when he's shooting 16 or 17 times a game

but he is trash as a rim protector and may be the worst big in the NBA at getting to the FT line. LOL...he averaged 1 FT a game last season. He's a poor defender and is bad at setting screens. He's a nearly useless modern C; a poster boy for empty stats

and yes, I'm a Blazer fan who has watched him for 2 seasons

his stats tell a different story.

they absolutely do not

as for rim protection, this season...blocked shot rate:

Victor Wembanyama 10.4
Donovan Clingan 7.5
Walker Kessler 7.4
Myles Turner 6.0
Anthony Davis 6.0
Brook Lopez 5.4
Nic Claxton 5.3
Peyton Watson 5.0
Alex Sarr 5.0
Yves Missi 4.8
Evan Mobley 4.7
Jaren Jackson Jr. 4.7
Matas Buzelis 4.3
Jalen Duren 4.2
Rudy Gobert 4.1
Jakob Poeltl 4.0
Isaiah Hartenstein 3.9
Amen Thompson 3.6
Ivica Zubac 3.4
Draymond Green 3.4
Kevin Durant 3.2
Giannis Antetokounmpo 3.2
Keon Ellis 3.2
Naz Reid 3.0
Onyeka Okongwu 3.0
Shai Gilgeous-Alexander 3.0
Derrick White 2.9
Deandre Ayton 2.9

a 6'3 guard is better at blocking shots than Ayton is

do you want to know how bad Ayton's overall defense was? When he was on the floor, the Blazers gave up an average of 118.4 points/100-possessions. When he was off the floor Portland gave up an average of 113.6 points. In other words, the Blazer defense was actually 4.8 points worse when Ayton was on the floor. And for all the chatter about his offense, Portland had a better offense without Ayton than with him. They also had a better record without him

as far as getting to the FT line and drawing fouls, this season out of 231 tracked players, Ayton ranked 189th in FT Rate

Yes, he can shoot well in the mid-range and convert well at the rim; and he's a strong rebounder, at least on defense. But all of those critical skills people look for in a C: rim protection, paint defense, versatile defense, screen-setting, drawing fouls, offensive rebounding, post passing...he's nearly useless. But he does get paid 35M/year

don't get me wrong, as a Blazer fan who detests Ayton I'd love it if you can template a trade that gets Ayton out of Portland. He's terrible IMO. I didn't really like Hassan Whiteside and kind of agreed about his empty stats. But Whiteside, as a Blazer, was better than Ayton in just about every single way, save one.

blocked shot rate is not really a reliable stat. You know how to get his fg% allowed on contested shots at the rim?
Closest I can find is:
https://www.nba.com/stats/players/defensive-impact?SeasonType=Regular%20Season&dir=A&sort=DEF_RIM_FG_PCT
Judging by his company there, this stat has its problems. On one hand Colin Castleton is not impressive, but being just shy of Wemby seems impressive.
Not a surprise, but TimeLord and Clingan are higher on the list because that's their specialty.