The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 2

[TeamTragic]

Knicks going after Giannis? When they see the cost of Giannis -- that OG, Robinson and Kolek for Durant won't look so bad

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As I said earlier on this thread and on the main board....
Giannis and Knicks have mutual interest.. strong interest.

Towns and OG for Giannis and salary filler. Bucks get 2 good starters and try to compete and Knicks get their defensive monster to dominate the boards and inside scoring.

Knicks may send pick swaps or any left over picks they have after the Mikal trade.

Not happening dude. Nobody wants KAT especially the Bucks.

[Djedefre]

I mean Ante is staying in Kee, we already heard that, so why bother with these rumors

[Ghost of Kleine]

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[Jesus_H_Macy]

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Man...I'm hoping it's not the Spurs... For one I don't like the idea of trading with a FO that will definitely win the deal vs. us. Anyone here think we'd get the better end of a deal with the Spurs? They'll bend us over. But Minnesota and Houston also have quality FO so whatever.

I just don't like the hypothetical deal regardless. Vassell starting at SF is a mistake. Vassell starting at SG with Book at PG is a mistake. Vassell as 2nd (or 3rd?) string SG at ~$30 mil per for the next four years is a mistake. We going to flip him to another team? If it doesn't happen as part of a 3-teamer that means we'll probably have him until at least the trade deadline. And his value isn't going to increase after we get him because of the reasons I mention above. Also doesn't look like he's much of a better 3pt shooter than Book. It would just be more pointless ball like we saw last year.

I like the idea of Sochan. Seems like a bad ass and we need a lot more of that on this squad. But he also seems like someone who could only direct that into positive things with a strong org (Spurs, Heat, Dubs, etc.). Until I'm proven wrong that's not us. I think he'd just be unhappy here and his energies would tilt negative.

I suppose if we get more future picks other than just 14 that might make it worthwhile, but does anyone expect the Spurs to suck again any time soon? It just feels like a pointless trade. Either go all-on on young players and picks or try to get an actual good player that fits like Anunoby or something. This feels like mediocre picks and mediocre players w/o much cap savings either.

Knicks will be the most desperate, they're our best bet, hope they're in the mix.

[TeamTragic]

New Spurs offer with Sochan is much better. However we need the #14.

[lilfishi22]

All these trades for KD feel like leftover dog water tbh. We give up prime players and picks for KD and only 2 years later get back b and c tier players teams don’t want?

That was always a risk trading for an older player and the closer they get to 40, the faster their value drops even if statistically, they are still really damn good. Couple that with that fact that we also overpaid for him, it does kind of accentuates the value disparity. It's the bed we made and the best we can do now is try and maximise the value we get back.

[lilfishi22]

More likely Beal agrees to a trade then giving up significant money in a buyout. Probably best to just ride it out if he deadset against being dealt

Beal options:
1) trade him but have to give up massive draft capital
2) buy him out - and have five years of cap hits
3) just use him as 6th man and see what he can bring

Option 3 is by far the smartest and most responsible pathway to take with Beal. Then we he falls off the books in 27' we'll have close to $60 million (from Beal alone) to massively upgrade our roster in a ridiculously loaded free agency that summer!

Yeah agree. I also think his trade value grows considerably (well from negative right now) if we play him, he stays healthy and continues to be an effective player which he has been (18/4/4 on good efficiency and 3P%) with the Suns. He'll be a massive expiring contract the following season so someone might bite and give him a run.

[lilfishi22]

Sam Venice on what a Raptors/Suns trade would look like:

https://www.reddit.com/r/suns/s/17tSmi5Vji

KD doesn't want to go to the Northern Syrup State. He is sticking to the teams he wants. He won't go to Toronto so stop this nonsense

You don't know where he wants to play or doesn't want to play so there is that.

The Raptors are interested in him and the rumor around the league is that they would trade for him even for only one year.

Nobody knows what he's thinking but you could make a pretty good logical assumption he doesn't want to spend a year on another team that missed playoffs. He's more likely going to prioritise a team he can see himself winning on

[lilfishi22]

A black Suns jersey. It looks pretty cool.

Feels like a jersey some blank NPC would wear in the background in NBA2K lol

[lilfishi22]

Finally Suns are Champions in something

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lol this makes no sense. Why is the Bucks a West team and Suns are an East team.

[lilfishi22]

Yeah thats not how a buyout works

Yeah man. I understand that we obviously wouldn't be getting his full 19 million right off the top because whatever agreed upon amount we'd buy him out for, we'd be on the hook for that remaining amount. So say we agreed to buy him out at 16 million (which I absolutely think he'd accept) of his remaining 19 million.

Leaving us with the 16 million on our books. But then we'd stretch that buyout amount by either 3 yrs or 5 yrs to create more cap flexibility now. For instance, if 16 million is our hit (buyout amount remaining) then:

3 years- $5.3 million over 3 years.
5 years- $3.2 million over 5 years.

So yeah, obviously we wouldn't immediately get the full 19 million by virtue of Nurkic buyout alone, but inferring that from adding in the reduction from dumping Micic and Martin? ( 5-6 million below the 2nd apron) as has been previously premised in discussions.

Then that should put us around 21 million ( ** if Nurkics' remaining 16 million is then stretched over 5 yrs at 3.2 million on the books) adding that 16 million cleared, in cumulative cap reduction to the 5-6 from clearing Micic and Martin.

Also then obviously taking back less salaries or smaller salaries in a KD trade, and also likely looking at moving O'neale and Allen would all be mechanisms for us to get even further beyond just 20 million under the 2nd apron possibly this summer.

Nurkic being in the last year of his contract means we'd obviously be on the hook for a smaller amount of money than if on a multi year deal, and cost us less cumulatively if we'd stretch the buyout amount, and therein the value cumulatively becomes 20 million or likely more in terms of flexibility (under the 2nd apron this summer.

Trading for an expiring Nurk to instead pay him over 3-5 years is opposite of cleaning up our books

[garrick]

There really was never a point in firing Frank Vogel.

We had to please KD because the vibes were bad.

Too many times KD was caught sulking for whatever reason because he wasn't getting the shots he wanted and Book and KD just didn't buy in, KD has a history of this in Brooklyn where he was partly responsible for getting Atkinson and Nash fired as coaches so unless your team has good leaders already like GSW KD is just awful being the captain of the sqaud with his passive aggressiveness, aloofness and moodiness.

[lilfishi22]

I mean Ante is staying in Kee, we already heard that, so why bother with these rumors

There could be an offer the Bucks can't refuse, especially if they know keeping him is just kicking the can down the road

Either way, Giannis staying in Mil is good for the Suns but if he is on the move, it does make things more interesting

[BobbieL]

Beal options:
1) trade him but have to give up massive draft capital
2) buy him out - and have five years of cap hits
3) just use him as 6th man and see what he can bring

Option 3 is by far the smartest and most responsible pathway to take with Beal. Then we he falls off the books in 27' we'll have close to $60 million (from Beal alone) to massively upgrade our roster in a ridiculously loaded free agency that summer!

Yeah agree. I also think his trade value grows considerably (well from negative right now) if we play him, he stays healthy and continues to be an effective player which he has been (18/4/4 on good efficiency and 3P%) with the Suns. He'll be a massive expiring contract the following season so someone might bite and give him a run.

The suns will need scoring off the bench . Plus he might increase his value

[lilfishi22]

There really was never a point in firing Frank Vogel.

We had to please KD because the vibes were bad.

Too many times KD was caught sulking for whatever reason because he wasn't getting the shots he wanted and Book and KD just didn't buy in, KD has a history of this in Brooklyn where he was partly responsible for getting Atkinson and Nash fired as coaches so unless your team has good leaders already like GSW KD is just awful being the captain of the sqaud with his passive aggressiveness, aloofness and moodiness.

It’s telling that Monty , Bud and Vogel all reached a point where keeping them as head coaches was no longer viable. Each fell short of expectations in their own way and to varying degrees, yet all three were dismissed with little opposition from the fanbase which I think just highlights a more fundamental issue with this team beyond coaching.

Bud for example, I thought when we hired him and gave him a long term deal that whatever happens, I want to see a quality coach continue to run this team and bring some coaching stability like Monty had after the previous merry-go-around of coaches. But I mean, probably by Christmas and at most the ASW, it was clear Bud wasn't that guy.

Maybe it's a KD thing, maybe it's a KD/Book thing, maybe it's an Ish thing....I don't know, I just know it's beyond an underperforming coach when at the end of each of the last 3 seasons, moving on from 3 different coaches felt unanimous

[lilfishi22]

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The more I've looked into Vassell the more I get why he's been included in these potential packages. I think he's kind of overrated, especially at his salary level. He's had solid counting stats the previous 2 years and this season he's had a bit of a down year but he's also never been very efficient, defensively he does leave a fair bit on the table and not only does he play a similar position as Book (wing scorer), I just don't think he's a good complement to Book either.

He's also turning 25 so he's at the front end of his prime and I see a solid but unremarkable starting wing. Which isn't bad but at around $27m a year salary, I think he could become overpaid if he doesn't get much better and likely to be misused or underutilised next to Book.

Sochan I'm a little more high on because he's just turned 22 and he's a versatile player and has some Draymond-esque value as a do it all kind of small 4-5. I'm just a bit worried about how much he's going to make with an extension.

[dremill24]

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The more I've looked into Vassell the more I get why he's been included in these potential packages. I think he's kind of overrated, especially at his salary level. He's had solid counting stats the previous 2 years and this season he's had a bit of a down year but he's also never been very efficient, defensively he does leave a fair bit on the table and not only does he play a similar position as Book (wing scorer), I just don't think he's a good complement to Book either.

He's also turning 25 so he's at the front end of his prime and I see a solid but unremarkable starting wing. Which isn't bad but at around $27m a year salary, I think he could become overpaid if he doesn't get much better and likely to be misused or underutilised next to Book.

Sochan I'm a little more high on because he's just turned 22 and he's a versatile player and has some Draymond-esque value as a do it all kind of small 4-5. I'm just a bit worried about how much he's going to make with an extension.

Vassell would certainly need to be a vehicle to get something else from a 3rd team.

Also weird thought that crossed my mind: if SA is willing to give up Sochan then that might mean we shouldnt want him