2025 Draft Thread - Part 3

[AFM]

Dairy Queen averages 1.9 assists and 2.4 turnovers per 36 minutes. It's utterly preposterous to project Jokic-tier playmaking from him.

This Queen obsession if fascinating. When Jokic was 21 he averaged a per36 of 22 / 13 / 6 on a TS of 64% and 2:1 AST TOV ratio.
Queen MAY be a real interesting hub for the bench unit and I get that. But people really dont seem to understand that Jokic is a freak outlier and most teams that try to build around that model will have a low ceiling.

I don’t think anyone here seriously thinks Queen is the next Joker.

You gotta keep in mind that AFM is the board’s court jester.

I didn’t even bring him up. I was talking about Nikola Topic

[Dat2U]

I really really love Noah Penda. I dom't know about his ceiling but his floor is sky high to me. IQ is off the charts. Can handle and see's the floor really well. May be the best wing defender in the draft - outside of Flagg. He looks like he has the size to play the 3 or 4. I view him how the stat geeks view CMB.

I like Will Riley more than I do Carter Bryant. Mainly due to the handle and Will has excellent length. Riley has 3-level scoring potential and is a real sleeper

Danny Wolf has 85% of the skill of Derik Queen but I trust his effort/activity alot more. And its really not a knock on Wolf's skill level, Queen is just in another orbit with how he processes the game and his foot work. I'm torn between the two. Both are good fits here but not everywhere.

The above 4 are my favorites at 18.

I'm at the stage where Sorber/Maluach are just a smidge below Queen/Wolf but its very close. I slighlty lean Sorber over Maluach mainly due to hishigh feel which was shown through his impact on defense. Maluach certainly has more 'upside' as a rim runner who can potentially step out but I fear to road to having a real defensive impact is steeper than anticipated and real 'project' albeit a massive one.

[WizarDynasty]

I don’t understand the Queen hate. If they’re going to go all offense/little to no defense, they should take Queen over Tre Johnson all day everyday. Queen is a supremely gifted player as a big man. I wouldn’t take him at 6, but in a trade down scenario absolutely.

I would absolutely take him at number 6. Offensive Bigmen like him are available once every 15 years. Guards are a dime a dozen, especially guards that don't play above the rim.

[nate33]

Danny Wolf has 85% of the skill of Derik Queen but I trust his effort/activity alot more. And its really not a knock on Wolf's skill level, Queen is just in another orbit with how he processes the game and his foot work. I'm torn between the two. Both are good fits here but not everywhere.

I think this is about right, but I prefer Wolf more because I think his skillset has greater utility in an NBA context. Queen really only impacts the game with the ball in his hands, so if he peaks out as a 2nd or 3rd option instead of a 1st option, I think he will struggle to help his team in an efficient manner. Whereas I think Wolf has the skillset that will make him a very effective complementary off-ball player and screener. He lacks Queen's interior game, but he shoots with more range and a quicker release which helps spacing and is more likely to freak out defenses when he sets the screen. I just think his talents are more additive.

And then factor that Wolf will probably be an adequate (though not "good") defender while Queen will probably be outright bad.

[NatP4]

I really really love Noah Penda. I dom't know about his ceiling but his floor is skill high to me. IQ is off the charts. Can handle and see's the floor really well. May be the best wing defender in the draft - outside of Flagg. He looks like he has the size to play the 3 or 4. I view him how the stat geeks view CMB.

I see the floor. Is Penda going to develop as a shooter though? What separates him from a Sidy Cissoko?

Sub 70% FT and 30% 3pt shooter at every level(outside of the 32% from 3 this year).

[Dat2U]

I really really love Noah Penda. I dom't know about his ceiling but his floor is skill high to me. IQ is off the charts. Can handle and see's the floor really well. May be the best wing defender in the draft - outside of Flagg. He looks like he has the size to play the 3 or 4. I view him how the stat geeks view CMB.

I see the floor. Is Penda going to develop as a shooter though? What separates him from a Sidy Cissoko?

Sub 70% FT and 30% 3pt shooter at every level(outside of the 32% from 3 this year).

The shooting is a good question. He's been willing to fire and has made an okay percentage this year. I think its workable. Its also why I view him more as a choice at 18 vs 6. I think defensively he's a 3/4 vs Cissoko who was a 2/3 and he is significantly heavier. I think he'll have more value on that end due to his frame and elite hands.

[awolfinwater]

Lurker here...

Here is some additional content from a gentleman who used to work in NBA front offices on Sorber and Queen. I found it interesting to hear the perspective from someone on the inside. He is very high Sorber...Not so much on Queen.

Link: https://nikoza2.substack.com/p/queen-on-the-chessboard

Summary

Derik Queen (ranked 18th on Oza’s board)
Pros:

Skilled big with great touch and passing for his size
Solid defensive stats (2 STL + 2 BLK per 100)

Warts:

Undersized wingspan (7'0.5") limits rim protection
Turnover-prone, negative AST/TO ratio
Relies on bully-ball that may not translate

Thomas Sorber (ranked 4th on Oza’s board)
Pros:

Massive 7’6” wingspan, elite rebounder and rim protector
Plus passer, good AST/TO ratio
Major on/off impact at Georgetown

Warts:

Foot injury risk
Strictly drop coverage on D
Slow shooting form, limited perimeter upside

[SUPERBALLMAN]

Man Champagnie gets no respect…

Just listened to another draft podcast that mocked NiqueClifford to the Wizards at 18 and said because he’s a better option to play for the Wizards than Champagnie.

[AFM]

tbf I feel like literally no one watches Wizards games outside of the dozen of us on this board.

[machu46]

For those that are interested, Sam Vecenie's draft guide is currently free to read apparently:

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6414203/2025/06/10/nba-draft-guide-2025-top-100-prospects-cooper-flagg/

[dobrojim]

If we don't get Maluach, I'd be happy with Sorber, as long
as he can stay healthy. There are some other interesting
choices out there too.

[NatP4]

Read on Twitter

Queen at #6, CMB at #19 (compared to Draymond), Essengue at #23

[DCZards]

I really really love Noah Penda. I dom't know about his ceiling but his floor is sky high to me. IQ is off the charts. Can handle and see's the floor really well. May be the best wing defender in the draft - outside of Flagg. He looks like he has the size to play the 3 or 4. I view him how the stat geeks view CMB.

I like Will Riley more than I do Carter Bryant. Mainly due to the handle and Will has excellent length. Riley has 3-level scoring potential and is a real sleeper

I'm a fan of Riley as well, but I lean Bryant because of his elite D. I also think he's going to be a very good 3pt shooter. Bryant has been compared to Trey Murphy, who I wanted the Zards to draft when they picked Kispert. Bryant won't be there at 18 though.

If I'm looking for shooting I'm taking Coward at 18, but I expect him to be gone before 18 as well. I'm also keeping my eye on Drake Powell at 18. Like his physical tools and overall game. He's a sleeper on the rise.

Fears/Johnson at 6 and Sorber at 18 would be wonderful...as would Maluach at 6 and Richardson at 18.

[nate33]

I really really love Noah Penda. I dom't know about his ceiling but his floor is sky high to me. IQ is off the charts. Can handle and see's the floor really well. May be the best wing defender in the draft - outside of Flagg. He looks like he has the size to play the 3 or 4. I view him how the stat geeks view CMB.

I like Will Riley more than I do Carter Bryant. Mainly due to the handle and Will has excellent length. Riley has 3-level scoring potential and is a real sleeper

I'm a fan of Riley as well, but I lean Bryant because of his elite D. I also think he's going to be a very good 3pt shooter. Bryant has been compared Trey Murphy, who I wanted the Zards to draft when they picked Kispert. Bryant won't be there at 18 though.

If I'm looking for shooting I'm taking Coward at 18, but I expect him to be gone before 18 as well. I'm also keeping my eye on Drake Powell at 18. Like his physical tools and overall game. He's a sleeper on the rise.

Fears/Johnson at 6 and Sorber at 18 would be wonderful...as would Maluach at 6 and Richardson at 18.

Drake Powell is being mocked at the very end of the 1st round or the top of the 2nd. I wouldn't use our #18 for him, but I'd be interested in trading up from #40 to get him. We could throw in one of our three 2026 SRP's. Powell is pretty raw, but he is a freak athlete who cares about defense so would probably be a nice prospect to develop.

[WizarDynasty]

Big with a foot injury huge red flag. Hand or elbow.. but foot injury sirens are blasting. Sorber second round pick at best unless you have really late first because that foot injury is based on usage.

[WizarDynasty]

Lurker here...

Here is some additional content from a gentleman who used to work in NBA front offices on Sorber and Queen. I found it interesting to hear the perspective from someone on the inside. He is very high Sorber...Not so much on Queen.

Link: https://nikoza2.substack.com/p/queen-on-the-chessboard

Summary

Derik Queen (ranked 18th on Oza’s board)
Pros:

Skilled big with great touch and passing for his size
Solid defensive stats (2 STL + 2 BLK per 100)

Warts:

Undersized wingspan (7'0.5") limits rim protection
Turnover-prone, negative AST/TO ratio
Relies on bully-ball that may not translate

Thomas Sorber (ranked 4th on Oza’s board)
Pros:

Massive 7’6” wingspan, elite rebounder and rim protector
Plus passer, good AST/TO ratio
Major on/off impact at Georgetown

Warts:

Foot injury risk
Strictly drop coverage on D
Slow shooting form, limited perimeter upside

Queen is by far the best offensive bigman in this draft. I mean he is at least a full lap on front of the next big. GOAT stat ia volume plus efficiency and Queen has already proven this. Dont be surprised if queen is gone before pick 6.

[closg00]

I wish we had an extra pick for Queen, 4-years from now Derik will be exactly the kind of half-court grinder you want in a playoff series, I am imagining the muscled man Derik will hopefully grow into.

[AFM]

Read on Twitter

Queen at #6, CMB at #19 (compared to Draymond), Essengue at #23

Wow! I LOVE THIS!!!

[AFM]

doc's guy:

Watch on YouTube

[pcbothwel]

I really really love Noah Penda. I dom't know about his ceiling but his floor is sky high to me. IQ is off the charts. Can handle and see's the floor really well. May be the best wing defender in the draft - outside of Flagg. He looks like he has the size to play the 3 or 4. I view him how the stat geeks view CMB.

I like Will Riley more than I do Carter Bryant. Mainly due to the handle and Will has excellent length. Riley has 3-level scoring potential and is a real sleeper

Danny Wolf has 85% of the skill of Derik Queen but I trust his effort/activity alot more. And its really not a knock on Wolf's skill level, Queen is just in another orbit with how he processes the game and his foot work. I'm torn between the two. Both are good fits here but not everywhere.

The above 4 are my favorites at 18.

I'm at the stage where Sorber/Maluach are just a smidge below Queen/Wolf but its very close. I slighlty lean Sorber over Maluach mainly due to hishigh feel which was shown through his impact on defense. Maluach certainly has more 'upside' as a rim runner who can potentially step out but I fear to road to having a real defensive impact is steeper than anticipated and real 'project' albeit a massive one.

1) Love Penda too
2) Lukewarm on Riley. He is 6'8 but has the same wingspan (6'8) and weighs 10 less LBS (185) than Bub. Hard pass in the 1st round.
3) Wolf is better than Queen. Wolf's shot profile and creation ability is drastically underrated and will translate. The average 4/5 gets 50%+ of their shots at the rim assisted (Maluach = 80%; Broome/CMB = 52%; Queen = 43%). Wolf is at 35%. So 65% of his shots at the rim were unassisted. Thats wild.
For gods sake, HALF of his 3PA were pullups. If people can't see the traits and project, then I cant help you. He would be a PHENOMINAL fit with Sarr. His floor is a bench big mismatch like Mo Wagner/Kelly Olynyk, but his ceiling is some mix of Sabonis and Naz Reid. Take him.