What would you give for Garland ?

[Scalabrine]

He's not a fin on the Knicks but what about the Pelicans?

Murray. Olynyk and Murphy for Garland, Allen and Okoro

Cavs:
Mobley/Olynyk
Hunter/Wade
Murphy/Strus
Mitchell/Jerome/Strus
Murray/Jerome

Pelicans:
Allen/Missi
Zion
Jones/Okoro
McCollum/Hawkins
Garland/Alvarado
#7 pick

[toooskies]

Deron Williams, 2x All-NBA at that point and mid 20's, traded for Favors and 2 FRP
Chris Paul at 25 traded for Aminu, Gordon, Kamen and a FRP
Jrue at age 22 after making his first AS team, was traded for Nerlens Noel (the 6th pick) and a FRP
Kyrie, who made multiple All-Stars and an ANBA and was in his mid 20's, was traded to BOS for injured IT, Crowder, and the 13th pick
CJ McCollum was traded for Hart, NAW, and a FRP

Okay finally have time to sift through these.

Deron Williams was a good example, you messed up the return assets though. He returned a 28 year old All Star PG in Devon Harris who had played in the Finals + Favors, two future first rounders, and $3 million.

If Garland can return that, I'm all for it. That is better than any offer you or anyone else has proposed yet in this thread.

CP3 not a bad example, the NBA nixed the original trade though, so that was probably not the best offer on the table. But getting back an All-Star big man in his physical prime, a future 6th man, a young wing, and a 1st rounder is not the worst thing in the world.

Jrue being 22 and only a 1x All-Star i think played a part. Plue Hinkie made it very clear he was trying to tank.

Kyrie threatened to have season ending surgery on his knee if the Cavs did not trade him, they had no choice. Guy ended up needing to have that surgery anyways, 6 months after being traded. How are you messing these trade packages up? lol they're literally on the internet... IT, Crowder, Zizic, pick #8, and a future 2nd.

McCollum was 30 years old, a zero time All-Star, and had a season left on his deal... Not even worth mentioning him on the list.

On the Deron Williams deal-- Favors was last year's 3rd overall pick and a 19 year-old big who everyone knew was going to need time to develop. (Cousins was taken two picks later in that draft.)

On the CP3 deal, Aminu was coming off his rookie season after being the 8th pick in the draft (so young talent), Eric Gordon was coming off his third season where he'd have been 12th in the league in scoring had he qualified, and Kaman was good but somewhat marginalized that season by a rookie named Blake Griffin. This was a better return in the moment than the Lakers deal that got rejected.

Jrue was an East all-star in a league that was much thinner than currently. He was beaten in the fan voting by late-career Ray Allen, Raymond Felton, and Monta Ellis. Only averaged 18ppg on the league's worst offense, unlike Garland who orchestrated the league-best offense.

Kyrie's trade was expected to return a top 5 pick when it was traded for in a draft where Trae Young went 5th. It's only because the Nets had no reason to lose and had a coach, Kenny Atkinson, to motivate them to win so the Nets won 7 of their last 13 games-- passing the Kings, Bulls, Magic, and Mavericks in the standings to go from 4th-last to 8th-last in the standings. The 4th-ranked lottery team ended up drafting 5th-- they took Trae Young and traded him for Luka Doncic on draft night.

[jbk1234]

He's not a fin on the Knicks but what about the Pelicans?

Murray. Olynyk and Murphy for Garland, Allen and Okoro

Cavs:
Mobley/Olynyk
Hunter/Wade
Murphy/Strus
Mitchell/Jerome/Strus
Murray/Jerome

Pelicans:
Allen/Missi
Zion
Jones/Okoro
McCollum/Hawkins
Garland/Alvarado
#7 pick

Murphy, Missi, and CJ for something around Allen and Garland could work.

[toooskies]

He's not a fin on the Knicks but what about the Pelicans?

Murray. Olynyk and Murphy for Garland, Allen and Okoro

Cavs:
Mobley/Olynyk
Hunter/Wade
Murphy/Strus
Mitchell/Jerome/Strus
Murray/Jerome

Pelicans:
Allen/Missi
Zion
Jones/Okoro
McCollum/Hawkins
Garland/Alvarado
#7 pick

No interest in eating Murray's contract. Too much bad salary for an over-the-apron team to take back. Send that to Milwaukee with their draft capital if you don't want to wait for him to heal up and find out if he's still an NBA player afterwards.

Would likely do Murphy/Herb for Garland/Okoro. Might do Allen/Okoro for Herb/Olynyk. Could consider Murphy/Olynyk for Garland but might ask for more comp.

Garland for Zion is an interesting thought exercise, on-court.

[toooskies]

He's not a fin on the Knicks but what about the Pelicans?

Murray. Olynyk and Murphy for Garland, Allen and Okoro

Cavs:
Mobley/Olynyk
Hunter/Wade
Murphy/Strus
Mitchell/Jerome/Strus
Murray/Jerome

Pelicans:
Allen/Missi
Zion
Jones/Okoro
McCollum/Hawkins
Garland/Alvarado
#7 pick

Murphy, Missi, and CJ for something around Allen and Garland could work.

If the Cavs were already under the apron, maybe. But the Cavs can't take both Murphy and CJ back in the Garland/Allen salary slots unless they can aggregate. The Pelicans can help with that by absorbing Okoro and the Cavs can just abandon Jerome and Merrill, but then you're more or less at talent parity at the high end while having much less depth.

Murphy/Herb fits neatly into Garland's salary, though. (Or Murphy/Olynyk, which NOP counters with if they entertain the thought at all.)

[jbk1234]

He's not a fin on the Knicks but what about the Pelicans?

Murray. Olynyk and Murphy for Garland, Allen and Okoro

Cavs:
Mobley/Olynyk
Hunter/Wade
Murphy/Strus
Mitchell/Jerome/Strus
Murray/Jerome

Pelicans:
Allen/Missi
Zion
Jones/Okoro
McCollum/Hawkins
Garland/Alvarado
#7 pick

Murphy, Missi, and CJ for something around Allen and Garland could work.

If the Cavs were already under the apron, maybe. But the Cavs can't take both Murphy and CJ back in the Garland/Allen salary slots unless they can aggregate. The Pelicans can help with that by absorbing Okoro and the Cavs can just abandon Jerome and Merrill, but then you're more or less at talent parity at the high end while having much less depth.

Murphy/Herb fits neatly into Garland's salary, though. (Or Murphy/Olynyk, which NOP counters with if they entertain the thought at all.)

Someone has to explain the consequences of executing a trade like that before July 1st. I've heard that it's hardcapped at the 2nd apron. Does that include losing Bird Rights, or is it just access to the BAE?

[toooskies]

Murphy, Missi, and CJ for something around Allen and Garland could work.

If the Cavs were already under the apron, maybe. But the Cavs can't take both Murphy and CJ back in the Garland/Allen salary slots unless they can aggregate. The Pelicans can help with that by absorbing Okoro and the Cavs can just abandon Jerome and Merrill, but then you're more or less at talent parity at the high end while having much less depth.

Murphy/Herb fits neatly into Garland's salary, though. (Or Murphy/Olynyk, which NOP counters with if they entertain the thought at all.)

Someone has to explain the consequences of executing a trade like that before July 1st. I've heard that it's hardcapped at the 2nd apron. Does that include losing Bird Rights, or is it just access to the BAE?

It means the Cavs are hard-capped at the 2nd apron. Which means they're running an illegal roster the day the calendar flips. (The NBA probably rejects a trade that forces a team into an illegal cap situation in the next league year rather than figuring out how to penalize an illegal cap situation.)

[JujitsuFlip]

On the CP3 deal, Aminu was coming off his rookie season after being the 8th pick in the draft (so young talent), Eric Gordon was coming off his third season where he'd have been 12th in the league in scoring had he qualified, and Kaman was good but somewhat marginalized that season by a rookie named Blake Griffin. This was a better return in the moment than the Lakers deal that got rejected.

Maybe so.

Odom was a 2 time champ and just won 6MOY but he was 31.

Scola was 30.

Kevin Martin was in his prime but idk what that counts for.

Dragic was still very young and raw.

Idk whose 2012 first rounder was being added but probably would've been a late 1st.

[jbk1234]

If the Cavs were already under the apron, maybe. But the Cavs can't take both Murphy and CJ back in the Garland/Allen salary slots unless they can aggregate. The Pelicans can help with that by absorbing Okoro and the Cavs can just abandon Jerome and Merrill, but then you're more or less at talent parity at the high end while having much less depth.

Murphy/Herb fits neatly into Garland's salary, though. (Or Murphy/Olynyk, which NOP counters with if they entertain the thought at all.)

Someone has to explain the consequences of executing a trade like that before July 1st. I've heard that it's hardcapped at the 2nd apron. Does that include losing Bird Rights, or is it just access to the BAE?

It means the Cavs are hard-capped at the 2nd apron. Which means they're running an illegal roster the day the calendar flips. (The NBA probably rejects a trade that forces a team into an illegal cap situation in the next league year rather than figuring out how to penalize an illegal cap situation.)

Now I'm more confused than before I asked. If they made the same trade at the deadline, you'd have the same result when the calendar flips. The NBA isn’t rejecting the deadline trade. In terms of Bird Rights, are they forfeit if you're hardcapped at 2nd apron, or do you still have them?

As far as Merrill and Ty, do you really need them with CJ? If Mobley, Murphy, Hunter, and Mitchell are 4 of your starting 5, you could actually start Okoro (or Strus) at the 2. CJ, Strus/Okoro, Tyson, Wade, Missi off the bench.

I keep coming back to the fact that trading Garland, while keeping Ty and Merrill as your bench guards, probably isn't going to produce the desired effect - especially if Mitchell feels like he has to expend 90% of his energy on offense.

[toooskies]

Someone has to explain the consequences of executing a trade like that before July 1st. I've heard that it's hardcapped at the 2nd apron. Does that include losing Bird Rights, or is it just access to the BAE?

It means the Cavs are hard-capped at the 2nd apron. Which means they're running an illegal roster the day the calendar flips. (The NBA probably rejects a trade that forces a team into an illegal cap situation in the next league year rather than figuring out how to penalize an illegal cap situation.)

Now I'm more confused than before I asked. If they made the same trade at the deadline, you'd have the same result when the calendar flips. The NBA isn’t rejecting the deadline trade. In terms of Bird Rights, are they forfeit if you're hardcapped at 2nd apron, or do you still have them?

As far as Merrill and Ty, do you really need them with CJ? If Mobley, Murphy, Hunter, and Mitchell are 4 of your starting 5, you could actually start Okoro (or Strus) at the 2. CJ, Strus/Okoro, Tyson, Wade, Missi off the bench.

I keep coming back to the fact that trading Garland, while keeping Ty and Merrill as your bench guards, probably isn't going to produce the desired effect - especially if Mitchell feels like he has to expend 90% of his energy on offense.

If you're going to concede that Mitchell is going to go 1-on-5 on offense in the playoffs, just go with all defenders and don't waste your time picking up McCollum. Garland for Camara, Thybulle, whatever salary they want to match.

[ciueli]

Trade him to Toronto for Immanuel Quickley straight up. Same type of player and his numbers aren't even that much worse but he's paid significantly less over the next 3 years, just in the first year the Cavs save almost $7M, that jumps to nearly $10M in year 2 and over $12M in year 3. That means they can potentially get out from under the 2nd apron heading into this season if they can salary dump someone like Isaac Okoro, or maybe even just Dean Wade if they get creative.

[jbk1234]

It means the Cavs are hard-capped at the 2nd apron. Which means they're running an illegal roster the day the calendar flips. (The NBA probably rejects a trade that forces a team into an illegal cap situation in the next league year rather than figuring out how to penalize an illegal cap situation.)

Now I'm more confused than before I asked. If they made the same trade at the deadline, you'd have the same result when the calendar flips. The NBA isn’t rejecting the deadline trade. In terms of Bird Rights, are they forfeit if you're hardcapped at 2nd apron, or do you still have them?

As far as Merrill and Ty, do you really need them with CJ? If Mobley, Murphy, Hunter, and Mitchell are 4 of your starting 5, you could actually start Okoro (or Strus) at the 2. CJ, Strus/Okoro, Tyson, Wade, Missi off the bench.

I keep coming back to the fact that trading Garland, while keeping Ty and Merrill as your bench guards, probably isn't going to produce the desired effect - especially if Mitchell feels like he has to expend 90% of his energy on offense.

If you're going to concede that Mitchell is going to go 1-on-5 on offense in the playoffs, just go with all defenders and don't waste your time picking up McCollum. Garland for Camara, Thybulle, whatever salary they want to match.

I'm not conceding that. Murphy, Hunter, and Mobley at the 5 is dangerous offensively before you get to Mitchell.

In any event, Windorst seems convinced that Garland isn't getting traded at this point.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/cavaliers-trade-rumors-darius-garland-reportedly-not-getting-traded-what-other-moves-could-cleveland-make/

[Mr Loggins]

A few months ago, realgm had him ranked #21 in trade value

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2441170

[toooskies]

Now I'm more confused than before I asked. If they made the same trade at the deadline, you'd have the same result when the calendar flips. The NBA isn’t rejecting the deadline trade. In terms of Bird Rights, are they forfeit if you're hardcapped at 2nd apron, or do you still have them?

As far as Merrill and Ty, do you really need them with CJ? If Mobley, Murphy, Hunter, and Mitchell are 4 of your starting 5, you could actually start Okoro (or Strus) at the 2. CJ, Strus/Okoro, Tyson, Wade, Missi off the bench.

I keep coming back to the fact that trading Garland, while keeping Ty and Merrill as your bench guards, probably isn't going to produce the desired effect - especially if Mitchell feels like he has to expend 90% of his energy on offense.

If you're going to concede that Mitchell is going to go 1-on-5 on offense in the playoffs, just go with all defenders and don't waste your time picking up McCollum. Garland for Camara, Thybulle, whatever salary they want to match.

I'm not conceding that. Murphy, Hunter, and Mobley at the 5 is dangerous offensively before you get to Mitchell.

In any event, Windorst seems convinced that Garland isn't getting traded at this point.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/cavaliers-trade-rumors-darius-garland-reportedly-not-getting-traded-what-other-moves-could-cleveland-make/

The cut of that video starts with Windy saying a phrase as if he just put forth a hypothetical Garland trade as an example but that it’s not imminent or anything.

I watched back his last 5 good Minutes with a more reasonable position— nobody is being made available nor is there a motivation to move any player necessarily, but since the 2nd apron is coming, the Cavs are doing their due diligence and making their calls before the new league year because the 2nd apron will make it harder to make trades.

(Windy has never been a top capologist, so I would trust this forum more than him in that the 2nd apron will get applied to Cleveland whether they make deals or not. but for practical purposes, the Cavs probably need to get their trades done early because the more that teams spend, the less flexibility the Cavs have in trading with them.)

[Chokic]

Garland is a steve nash level player. Lakers and spurs should have pulled the trigger when they had the chance.

That's wild. Nash was better at Garland's biggest strength (shooting), and literally runs circles around him in terms of running the offense. Nash imo is one of the most over rated players of all time, but he was still an offensive fulcrum you could use to create an entire offense around. 2x MVP and one of the best PG's of all time.

We have seen absolutely nothing from Garland at this point in his career to suggest he could ever reach that level...

Man it's wild how over rated this guy is on this board, I never knew how highly some people thought of Garland till this thread.[/quote


Its weird how you called nash one of the most overrated of all time yet got defensive about Garland possibly projecting to that level.
Averaging nearly almost 22 and almost 9 assists in his 3rd season is nothing to scoff at. Not to mention he had no all stars on that roster or a offensive system to inflate his stats. Nash is one of the most efficient players in nba history 50/40/90 club albeit lower shot volume.
Stylistically imo he plays quite similar to Nash. You dont need to see a huge sample size of a player to see ones talent. Garland has 3 level scoring ability with natural court vision and playmaking skill. Perhaps if he gets to run a team w/o sharing ball handling duties w/ Mitchell we can see his true potential.

[Scalabrine]

He's not a fin on the Knicks but what about the Pelicans?

Murray. Olynyk and Murphy for Garland, Allen and Okoro

Cavs:
Mobley/Olynyk
Hunter/Wade
Murphy/Strus
Mitchell/Jerome/Strus
Murray/Jerome

Pelicans:
Allen/Missi
Zion
Jones/Okoro
McCollum/Hawkins
Garland/Alvarado
#7 pick

Murphy, Missi, and CJ for something around Allen and Garland could work.

If the Cavs were already under the apron, maybe. But the Cavs can't take both Murphy and CJ back in the Garland/Allen salary slots unless they can aggregate. The Pelicans can help with that by absorbing Okoro and the Cavs can just abandon Jerome and Merrill, but then you're more or less at talent parity at the high end while having much less depth.

Murphy/Herb fits neatly into Garland's salary, though. (Or Murphy/Olynyk, which NOP counters with if they entertain the thought at all.)

I'm a big Garland fan, but I just don't think he's worth anything close to Murphy AND Herb Jones. Those are both very good players, on very good contracts and the Cavs would be way better after the trade.

[SpreeS]

Garland for Suggs

[doogie_hauser]

I honestly don't believe Garland will be traded, I suspect this is a PR stunt by the Cavs (relatively conservative) front office to make it look like they were trying to do something in the off season.

[toooskies]

Murphy, Missi, and CJ for something around Allen and Garland could work.

If the Cavs were already under the apron, maybe. But the Cavs can't take both Murphy and CJ back in the Garland/Allen salary slots unless they can aggregate. The Pelicans can help with that by absorbing Okoro and the Cavs can just abandon Jerome and Merrill, but then you're more or less at talent parity at the high end while having much less depth.

Murphy/Herb fits neatly into Garland's salary, though. (Or Murphy/Olynyk, which NOP counters with if they entertain the thought at all.)

I'm a big Garland fan, but I just don't think he's worth anything close to Murphy AND Herb Jones. Those are both very good players, on very good contracts and the Cavs would be way better after the trade.

There is risk that Herb’s good shooting season was a fluke. If it was, it may be hard to play him.

Murphy’s scoring jump last year was good but NO wasn’t a serious team last year. Some/most of the jump disappears this year unless he continues making progress.

[shrink]

Only one hoot