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2025 Draft Thread - Part 3

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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 3 

Post#141 » by Rand McNally » Tue Jun 10, 2025 7:37 pm

nate33 wrote:
Rand McNally wrote:
nate33 wrote:If you allow for the $74M in savings on Middleton and Kispert, then we are paying $37M to move up from #6 to #3. I think that is probably the going rate for moving up high in the lottery.


My guess is the very most Beal would accept in a buyout is the NTMLE, assuming a team like the Clippers would give it to him for 2 years.

You have to factor in the opportunity cost of having dead (thus untradeable) money on the books for the next two seasons.

Further, you have to game out the rest of PHX's offseason to the best of your ability to assess the risk around them making the playoffs next year. While the chances of them jumping the Wizards in next year's lottery are unlikely today, the Wizards pick swap with PHX next year gives WAS a backstop against a specific type of lottery disaster.

If you're paying considerably to move from 6 to 3 -- whatever form that payment takes -- you need to be really convinced about who are you are taking at 3. It's not that it can't work, but further patience might be the more prudent course.

Ones' assessment of PG also matters here. If he's completely cooked, then maybe he's a trojan horse that helps enhance the PHX draft equity WAS hold. Or maybe he's an asset you can rehab and move to someone who strikes out in free agency.


The negotiation surrounding Beal's buyout would be interesting. The NBA has a "right to set-off" provision whereby when a player is waived while still under contract, his old team gets repaid whatever amount the player earns on his new contract if he joins another team. So, for example, if Beal ends up signing with the Lakers for the taxpayer MLE, the Wizards would get back that taxpayer MLE of $5.5M a year (for 2 years presumably).

Any new team signing him would have no motivation to pay Beal more than the vet minimum, because, either way, Beal is getting all the money he is owed, so they figure most of that money should come out of Leonsis' pocket and not theirs. So if we just waived him, we would only get back about $4M (2 times the vet-minimum salary of $2M).

The solution here is to negotiate with Beal. Tell him we're not going to waive him, nor play him at all and condemn him to being under contract and missing out on 2 seasons of his career, unless he works with us to find a new destination with a team willing to pay him a reasonable salary commensurate with his ability. I think there are teams out there who would pay him something close to MLE salary for 2 years. If they work that out, then we can shave roughly $30M off of Beal's salary in a buyout.

If we save $30M in Beal's buyout, then the end result is that we paid just $7M to move up from #6 to #3!


Beal's NTC will allow him to control his final destination. There's no way he approves a trade to the Wizards and then they say "oh by the way, we're cutting you." It would all have to be pre-orchestrated.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 3 

Post#142 » by payitforward » Tue Jun 10, 2025 7:43 pm

nate33 wrote:Maluach was significantly more productive over the second half of the season. As his USG% went up, his passing improved and his turnovers decreased. He even rebounded better and blocked more shots.

Read on Twitter


The same pattern shows for another favorite of mine: Jase Richardson.

Interestingly, the same pattern also showed up for SGA.

Love it.

Maluach & Richardson would be a great R1 pair. If we followed it up w/ Kam Jones or Michael Ruzic in R2, I'd say we did great!

Then pick up a kid like Alijah Martin undrafted to develop on the gogo....
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 3 

Post#143 » by 80sballboy » Tue Jun 10, 2025 8:06 pm

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/45470775/2025-nba-mock-draft-debating-30-round-1-picks-need-value-cooper-flagg

ESPN.com did a biggest need for all 30 first round picks. Here's a snippet of the Wiz two picks.


6. Washington Wizards

Givony's pick that fills the biggest need:
Khaman Maluach, C, Duke, Freshman | TS%: 74.7

Alex Sarr has long fancied himself more of a power forward than a center, shooting more than five 3-pointers per game last season while continuing to post pedestrian defensive rebounding numbers, as he has for much of his career.

Enter Maluach, a true center at 7-2 who projects as a defensive anchor in the paint, giving the Wizards another long-armed big man to play behind or with Sarr in the type of twin-tower lineups that are becoming increasingly en vogue in the NBA (think the Cleveland Cavaliers).

Woo's pick that gets the best value: Maluach

As the consensus top defensive big man in the class, Maluach would be a strong addition most anywhere, although teams with young centers in place might see more value in going a different direction.

The Wizards, working with the benefit of time as they rebuild, might consider the benefits of a super-sized defensive front line pairing Maluach with the more agile Sarr at the 4.

18. Washington Wizards (via Memphis)

Givony's pick that fills the biggest need:
Nolan Traore, PG, Saint-Quentin (France) | TS%: 51.0

The Wizards don't have a surefire, starting-caliber point guard they can point to on the roster currently and can afford to take a swing on talent with Traore, who just turned 19 and is arguably the best passer in this draft.

After starting the season projected as a top-10 pick, Traore's draft stock dropped because of inconsistent play, but there's still plenty to like with his size, ballhandling, playmaking creativity and upside, making him a worthy gamble for a team in Washington's situation and at this point in the draft.

Woo's pick that gets the best value:
Liam McNeeley, SG/SF, UConn, Freshman | TS%: 53.6

McNeeley entered the season in the late lottery mix and continues to receive looks in the top 20 thanks to his shooting potential, perimeter versatility and strong pre-college pedigree.

The dearth of quality wings in the middle of the first round would make him a valid play here for the Wizards, who are in full youth movement mode and covet positional size and basketball IQ.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 3 

Post#144 » by NatP4 » Tue Jun 10, 2025 8:07 pm

closg00 wrote:I wish we had an extra pick for Queen, 4-years from now Derik will be exactly the kind of half-court grinder you want in a playoff series, I am imagining the muscled man Derik will hopefully grow into.


He’s the type of player that gets played off the court in a playoff series. I’m not using the 6th overall pick on another Thomas Bryant.

Sarr is a C long term.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 3 

Post#145 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Tue Jun 10, 2025 8:17 pm

nate33 wrote:
Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:
TGW wrote:I don’t understand the Queen hate. If they’re going to go all offense/little to no defense, they should take Queen over Tre Johnson all day everyday. Queen is a supremely gifted player as a big man. I wouldn’t take him at 6, but in a trade down scenario absolutely.
Ditto.

Alex Sarr is a perimeter-oriented big who can be a lob threat. Derik Queen has moves and counter moves at the rim. Derik's shooting won't be problematic when he's played next to Alex.

Queen will score at the rim like no other Wizard.

Best case scenario is that Queen is the next Nikola Vucevic.

Statistically, that would be awesome. Vucevic has had a 14 year career, 13 of those years as a starter. Over his 10-year peak, he averaged 19 points, 11 boards and 3 assists, while making 2 All-Star games. His career PER is a very impressive 21.

The problem is, in Vucevic's 14-year career, he made the playoffs just 3 times, losing 4-1 each time and posting a -7.0 on/off differential in those games. That's 3 total playoff wins in 14 years. That prototype just doesn't win in the playoffs. Centers MUST defend.


I completely agree.

Who were Vucecic's best teammates on each of those teams?

Did he EVER play with a big like Sarr?

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/v/vucevni01/gamelog/2020/

Check out his 5 playoff games and game scores! OMG

On a 33-win team, Vucecic absolutely DOMINATED in the 2019-2020 playoffs against Giannis and Lopez twins' 56-win Bucks.

Look at Vucecic's performance in that 1-4 loss. His fault?

Now, take a look at the Orlando Magic roster.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/ORL/2020.html

In 14 years, has he EVER had winning teammates? Think about prime Beal on the Wizards. What did he ever win?
Tre Johnson is the future of the Wizards.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 3 

Post#146 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Tue Jun 10, 2025 8:22 pm

payitforward wrote:
TGW wrote:I don’t understand the Queen hate. If they’re going to go all offense/little to no defense, they should take Queen over Tre Johnson all day everyday. Queen is a supremely gifted player as a big man. I wouldn’t take him at 6, but in a trade down scenario absolutely.

Agreed. It's almost always better to judge players (& people) based on what they can do rather than judging them on their weaknesses.

Keep in mind as well that whomever is chosen at 6, he's unlikely to become one of the dominant players in the league -- no more likely than is the 12th player taken in the same year. In fact, he's not likely to be any better than the guy taken at 12:

*ekpe udoh vs. xavier henry
jan vesely vs. alek burks*
damian Lillard* vs jeremy lamb
nerlens noel vs steven adams*
marcus smart* vs dario saric
willie cauley-stein vs trey lyles*
buddy hield vs. taurean prince
jonathan isaac* vs. luke kennard
mo bamba vs. miles bridges*
jarrett culver vs. pj washington*
onyeka okungwu vs. tyrese haliburton*
josh giddey* vs. joshua primo
bennedict mathurin vs. jalen williams*
anthony black vs. derreck lively*
I expected a lot better from Nerlens Noel and Jarrett Culver. IIRC, they attended Kentucky and U VA, two schools that produce top-tier defenders. I gave too much emphasis on where they attended.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 3 

Post#147 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Tue Jun 10, 2025 8:24 pm

nate33 wrote:Maluach was significantly more productive over the second half of the season. As his USG% went up, his passing improved and his turnovers decreased. He even rebounded better and blocked more shots.

Read on Twitter


The same pattern shows for another favorite of mine: Jase Richardson.

Interestingly, the same pattern also showed up for SGA.
I feel better about Richardson later than Fears or Johnson at 6.
Tre Johnson is the future of the Wizards.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 3 

Post#148 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Tue Jun 10, 2025 8:29 pm

AFM wrote:
DCZards wrote:
pcbothwel wrote:
This Queen obsession if fascinating. When Jokic was 21 he averaged a per36 of 22 / 13 / 6 on a TS of 64% and 2:1 AST TOV ratio.
Queen MAY be a real interesting hub for the bench unit and I get that. But people really dont seem to understand that Jokic is a freak outlier and most teams that try to build around that model will have a low ceiling.

I don’t think anyone here seriously thinks Queen is the next Joker.

You gotta keep in mind that AFM is the board’s court jester. :D


I didn’t even bring him up. I was talking about Nikola Topic


https://sports.yahoo.com/article/lu-dort-nikola-topics-recovery-020039969.html

OKC has an abundance of talent.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 3 

Post#149 » by nate33 » Tue Jun 10, 2025 8:35 pm

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:On a 33-win team, Vucecic absolutely DOMINATED in the 2019-2020 playoffs against Giannis and Lopez twins' 56-win Bucks.

Look at Vucecic's performance in that 1-4 loss. His fault?

Yes! Absolutely!

The Magic gave up 118 points per game. THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOUR CENTER DOESN'T DEFEND!

He put up good offensive numbers but still finished with a -14.9 on/off differential because it was a layup line at the other end of the floor. And he didn't really dominate. Yes, he scored a lot, but at a TS% of just .549.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 3 

Post#150 » by nate33 » Tue Jun 10, 2025 8:44 pm

I just caught the No Ceilings podcast. In their mock draft, which is a compilation of the rankings of their 9 draft experts, they had Kneuppel going 5th with Tre falling to us at 6th.

Sam Vecenie also has Kneuppel in the top 5.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 3 

Post#151 » by 80sballboy » Tue Jun 10, 2025 8:49 pm

nate33 wrote:I just caught the No Ceilings podcast. In their mock draft, which is a compilation of the rankings of their 9 draft experts, they had Kneuppel going 5th with Tre falling to us at 6th.

Sam Vecenie also has Kneuppel in the top 5.


Yeah, a lot of Mocks now have him anywhere from 4-7, with most around 4-5. I don't see the super high ceiling, like maybe a taller Desmond Bane, but I don't see him as being a huge bust despite his athletic limitations. No way Dawkins takes him at 6.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 3 

Post#152 » by NatP4 » Tue Jun 10, 2025 8:50 pm

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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 3 

Post#153 » by nate33 » Tue Jun 10, 2025 8:53 pm

I wonder what it would take to move up to #4, assuming Philly drafts Bailey at #3 given their need at forward.

My thinking is that Charlotte doesn't have a dire need for Edgecombe at the 2 since they already have a backcourt of Ball and Miller. Also, Charlotte is obviously not interested in retaining Mark Williams given their attempt to trade him to the Lakers, and I understand that there is now some bad blood there. So maybe Charlotte would entertain moving down to #6 where they could draft a center like Maluach (or Queen, if they prefer).

Would our #6 pick plus AJ Johnson be enough to move up to #4? Maybe somehow throw in a Marcus Smart for bad contracts swap? I would love to come away from this draft with Edgecombe and still keep the #18 where we can draft Wolf.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 3 

Post#154 » by tontoz » Tue Jun 10, 2025 8:55 pm

NatP4 wrote:[url]
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Out of all those guys the one at the bottom of my list is Demin. I wouldn't take him even at 18.
"bulky agile perimeter bone crunch pick setting draymond green" WizD
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 3 

Post#155 » by NatP4 » Tue Jun 10, 2025 8:58 pm

I would assume Essengue hasn’t received a green room invite because he’s still playing. Confident he’s going top 10.

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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 3 

Post#156 » by payitforward » Tue Jun 10, 2025 8:59 pm

Per Givony, Maluach & Traore does make sense. A big talent add in that pair! Ditto if it were to be McNeeley at 18 instead pf Traore.

Their big board shows Johni Broome still available at 40. IMO, he's an absolutely can't-miss NBA prospect, a guy who's going to have a long, productive career in the league. Not a star, not a primary scorer, but a stud all the same.

As an alternative to Broome, Woo pencils in Toohey. Anyone have a take on him?
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 3 

Post#157 » by nate33 » Tue Jun 10, 2025 9:00 pm

NatP4 wrote:I would assume Essengue hasn’t received a green room invite because he’s still playing. Confident he’s going top 10.

I dunno. It seems like there is a pretty wide range for Essengue. He could go as high as #6, but it's also possible that he slips to the mid teens. The guy is definitely a project, even if the upside is there.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 3 

Post#158 » by nate33 » Tue Jun 10, 2025 9:04 pm

Rand McNally wrote:Beal's NTC will allow him to control his final destination. There's no way he approves a trade to the Wizards and then they say "oh by the way, we're cutting you." It would all have to be pre-orchestrated.

Agreed. It would all have to be pre-orchestrated. Although the Wizards could just to the WIZ/PHI part and end up with Paul George for now. And then, over the rest of the summer, try and shop Paul George for a shorter contract like Beal's. That would remove the ticking clock from the equation and reduce Beal's negotiating leverage on the follow-up buyout.
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 3 

Post#159 » by NatP4 » Tue Jun 10, 2025 9:05 pm

nate33 wrote:
NatP4 wrote:I would assume Essengue hasn’t received a green room invite because he’s still playing. Confident he’s going top 10.

I dunno. It seems like there is a pretty wide range for Essengue. He could go as high as #6, but it's also possible that he slips to the mid teens. The guy is definitely a project, even if the upside is there.


The measureables+production against quality competition at 18 years old locks him into the top 10 IMO.

I think he’s our pick at #6(but likely to trade down with BKN for #8 because they want Fears).
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Re: 2025 Draft Thread - Part 3 

Post#160 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Tue Jun 10, 2025 9:13 pm

WizarDynasty wrote:
TGW wrote:I don’t understand the Queen hate. If they’re going to go all offense/little to no defense, they should take Queen over Tre Johnson all day everyday. Queen is a supremely gifted player as a big man. I wouldn’t take him at 6, but in a trade down scenario absolutely.


I would absolutely take him at number 6. Offensive Bigmen like him are available once every 15 years. Guards are a dime a dozen, especially guards that don't play above the rim.
I would also take Queen at 6. However, since I know the Wizards will not, I hope the Spurs draft him at 10.

It will work out much better for Derik to be a Spur.
Tre Johnson is the future of the Wizards.

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