The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 2

[Fo-Real]

Read on Twitter

Appealing for who exactly???

Lol, NAA!!

[Blonde]

A Miami trade starts and ends with Ware.

[thamadkant]

All rumoured KD offers are trash.

Extend him 2 years at 60M per. Just screw these low ballers. KD is good for 26ppg 7rpg 4apg at 50/40/88 shooting percentages until he's 40.

[TeamTragic]

Read on Twitter

Appealing for who exactly???

Riley can go **** himself with that trash offer.

[thamadkant]

Knicks only best offer involve KAT.

Mitchell Robinson killed Celtics because he was the biggest player on the court and Celtics were tiny without Porzingis who is injured.

But against other big men, he is mediocre at best and will be fouled a lot since he can't shoot FTs. He's a good backup.

Funny the bigs Suns are targeting are about valued at 20 to 25M per year type of centers are still far below what Suns had with a happy Ayton, who when not sulking and playing half ass, is great value now for 33M a year.


Suns are just simply horrible for trading Ayton for peanuts not waiting until he upped his value. Because all they have to show for him is Nick Richards and Grayson Allen.... while also getting rid of Toumani, who is a very good defender.



Suns are just garbage. Ishiba is garbage.

[TeamTragic]

Knicks only best offer involve KAT.

Mitchell Robinson killed Celtics because he was the biggest player on the court and Celtics were tiny without Porzingis who is injured.

But against other big men, he is mediocre at best and will be fouled a lot since he can't shoot FTs. He's a good backup.

Funny the bigs Suns are targeting are about valued at 20 to 25M per year type of centers are still far below what Suns had with a happy Ayton, who when not sulking and playing half ass, is great value now for 33M a year.


Suns are just simply horrible for trading Ayton for peanuts not waiting until he upped his value. Because all they have to show for him is Nick Richards and Grayson Allen.... while also getting rid of Toumani, who is a very good defender.

Suns are just garbage. Ishiba is garbage.

You are not wrong but hey at least we are moving forward with a young coach and new GM.

Ishbia is still better than our last owner. I will remain optimistic until after we see what this front office has been cooking.

[Fo-Real]

All rumoured KD offers are trash.

Extend him 2 years at 60M per. Just screw these low ballers. KD is good for 26ppg 7rpg 4apg at 50/40/88 shooting percentages until he's 40.

Originally POSTERS SAID... if we get low ball offers, to just walk away and keep him at least to the trade deadline. Now people have been talked into get rid of him for anything.

[Qwigglez]

I wouldn't want Robinson. He's played less than 50 regular season games in the last two seasons. He did play 18 playoff games this postseason but he can only play only a handful of minutes. Combine him with Nick Richards and the Suns center rotation is still terrible. I'd rather just deal for KAT and perhaps Kolek if Suns are able to nab him.

I'd only want him as an expiring contract that we could buy out and then stretch the remaining money for 3 or 5 yrs to cumulatively create more cap flexibility. Or maybe trade him elsewhere to a team that's desperate for a center option for a late 1st or a couple of 2nds?

So downgrade from KD to OG, buy out Robinson and run Nick Richards back as starting center. No thank you.

[Qwigglez]

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Appealing for who exactly???

Is this a joke? Appealing lol.

Well, it is just Sidery speculating about the offer. No reporting.

There is nothing appealing about trading KD to the Heat. Suns were only offering Beal for Butler. I wouldn't make a trade with the Heat involving Durant.

[Qwigglez]

Knicks only best offer involve KAT.

Mitchell Robinson killed Celtics because he was the biggest player on the court and Celtics were tiny without Porzingis who is injured.

But against other big men, he is mediocre at best and will be fouled a lot since he can't shoot FTs. He's a good backup.

Funny the bigs Suns are targeting are about valued at 20 to 25M per year type of centers are still far below what Suns had with a happy Ayton, who when not sulking and playing half ass, is great value now for 33M a year.


Suns are just simply horrible for trading Ayton for peanuts not waiting until he upped his value. Because all they have to show for him is Nick Richards and Grayson Allen.... while also getting rid of Toumani, who is a very good defender.



Suns are just garbage. Ishiba is garbage.

The Suns front office simply believed the rhetoric that any athletic center could replicate Ayton's numbers playing with KD and Booker. If the Suns botch this off-season I'll probably jump ship to the Blazers (since I live in the area).

[BobbieL]

All rumoured KD offers are trash.

Extend him 2 years at 60M per. Just screw these low ballers. KD is good for 26ppg 7rpg 4apg at 50/40/88 shooting percentages until he's 40.

Originally POSTERS SAID... if we get low ball offers, to just walk away and keep him at least to the trade deadline. Now people have been talked into get rid of him for anything.

Thats not improving the team either

Don't take a low ball offer but the Suns are not in a great position. Durant needs to go - they need to build a better team that complements Booker

Suns keep KD - going to have the same two guys scoring 55 ppg combined but the Win total will be in the 30's and only getting worse

[Saberestar]

Kellan Olsen:

Jordan Ott's two big pillars for his offensive philosophy are pace and movement. Knows that's what everyone says but specifically mentioned cutting, and alluded to how much success Cleveland had with all that movement last year. Extra possessions, early clock, etc.

On defense it's what you would expect, with aggression, effort, connectivity and so on. I'm sure there's some really inside baseball stuff with scheme work and such he wants to do. Will pick his brain in training camp on that!

[lilfishi22]

I wouldn't want Robinson. He's played less than 50 regular season games in the last two seasons. He did play 18 playoff games this postseason but he can only play only a handful of minutes. Combine him with Nick Richards and the Suns center rotation is still terrible. I'd rather just deal for KAT and perhaps Kolek if Suns are able to nab him.

I'd only want him as an expiring contract that we could buy out and then stretch the remaining money for 3 or 5 yrs to cumulatively create more cap flexibility. Or maybe trade him elsewhere to a team that's desperate for a center option for a late 1st or a couple of 2nds?

I don't know what your fascination is with the instant gratification of a waive and stretch. You've made the same case for Nurk. That's two guys you could literally hang onto for a season and you have the full $12-19m completely come off the books with no skeletons moving forward.

[BobbieL]

I wouldn't want Robinson. He's played less than 50 regular season games in the last two seasons. He did play 18 playoff games this postseason but he can only play only a handful of minutes. Combine him with Nick Richards and the Suns center rotation is still terrible. I'd rather just deal for KAT and perhaps Kolek if Suns are able to nab him.

I'd only want him as an expiring contract that we could buy out and then stretch the remaining money for 3 or 5 yrs to cumulatively create more cap flexibility. Or maybe trade him elsewhere to a team that's desperate for a center option for a late 1st or a couple of 2nds?

I don't know what your fascination is with the instant gratification of a waive and stretch. You've made the same case for Nurk. That's two guys you could literally hang onto for a season and you have the full $12-19m completely come off the books with no skeletons moving forward.

Yes - for the same reason I want to hold onto Beal to get maximum value in two summers, no need to stretch "Barnes" if they trade for him. Hell Barnes might have value at the trade deadline as an expiring contract.

The Suns need to start playing the long game. Maybe not as long as Presti did in OKC - but because Ishbia had to bring back Bol Bol or sign Tyus Jones, he actually screwed himself over stretching Little for whatever nominal amount. Hell Mason Plumlee.

So enough of the short term fixes that are a like a dopamine shot of adrenalin for Mat so I can sign a player and have Gambo and Flex say "Suns are killing it on the veteran market" - but take along term viewer with some of these moves/

[lilfishi22]

I'd definitely prefer claxton over Vassell

in all honesty. Claxton isn't even good. Richards and Claxton are about the same talent.

Claxton is comfortably better especially on the defensive end

[lilfishi22]

Read on Twitter

Appealing for who exactly???

I don't mind Miami's picks. They have own a surprising amount of their own picks, in particular the ones in the late 2020's. I also think their current core with Bam/Herro has limited upside and even with a KD bump, I think they are only good at most another year or so. So their draft picks, especially if they are unprotected, could look pretty juicy.

The caveat to that is they have a lot of salary coming off the books at the end of this upcoming season and only have Bam and Ware in the books after that, so they could be a major FA player which could turn the tide for them if they make good decisions.

If we're talking 2 future FRP from 2027 onwards between Spurs and Heat...I kind of think the Spurs will be trending up while Heat are trending down so the Spurs picks might not look as nice

[lilfishi22]

I'd only want him as an expiring contract that we could buy out and then stretch the remaining money for 3 or 5 yrs to cumulatively create more cap flexibility. Or maybe trade him elsewhere to a team that's desperate for a center option for a late 1st or a couple of 2nds?

I don't know what your fascination is with the instant gratification of a waive and stretch. You've made the same case for Nurk. That's two guys you could literally hang onto for a season and you have the full $12-19m completely come off the books with no skeletons moving forward.

Yes - for the same reason I want to hold onto Beal to get maximum value in two summers, no need to stretch "Barnes" if they trade for him. Hell Barnes might have value at the trade deadline as an expiring contract.

The Suns need to start playing the long game. Maybe not as long as Presti did in OKC - but because Ishbia had to bring back Bol Bol or sign Tyus Jones, he actually screwed himself over stretching Little for whatever nominal amount. Hell Mason Plumlee.

So enough of the short term fixes that are a like a dopamine shot of adrenalin for Mat so I can sign a player and have Gambo and Flex say "Suns are killing it on the veteran market" - but take along term viewer with some of these moves/

100%

If we happen to be good in the short term, it's going to be because of a trade or if we're going to be good in the long term, it's going to be via good players/assets and clean books. We're NOT going to be good in either short or long term because we waive and stretched tens of millions of dollars over 3-5 years and was able to slip under the 2nd apron and signed someone with a $5.7m MLE.

[BobbieL]

I don't know what your fascination is with the instant gratification of a waive and stretch. You've made the same case for Nurk. That's two guys you could literally hang onto for a season and you have the full $12-19m completely come off the books with no skeletons moving forward.

Yes - for the same reason I want to hold onto Beal to get maximum value in two summers, no need to stretch "Barnes" if they trade for him. Hell Barnes might have value at the trade deadline as an expiring contract.

The Suns need to start playing the long game. Maybe not as long as Presti did in OKC - but because Ishbia had to bring back Bol Bol or sign Tyus Jones, he actually screwed himself over stretching Little for whatever nominal amount. Hell Mason Plumlee.

So enough of the short term fixes that are a like a dopamine shot of adrenalin for Mat so I can sign a player and have Gambo and Flex say "Suns are killing it on the veteran market" - but take along term viewer with some of these moves/

100%

If we happen to be good in the short term, it's going to be because of a trade or if we're going to be good in the long term, it's going to be via good players/assets and clean books. We're NOT going to be good in either short or long term because we waive and stretched tens of millions of dollars over 3-5 years and was able to slip under the 2nd apron and signed someone with a $5.7m MLE.

I get part of the reason MatIshbia wants to stretch Beal is because of the luxury tax implications. Granted, if he had not signed Plumlee or Jones or Bol Bol and just sucked it up with Little - he could have stretched Beal this offseason and saved $100m each year for two years. So again, short term gain and now look at the long term pain Ishbia did. And didn't anybody read the damn CBA about % of money dead. And I know Bol Bol was a pretty good player but really - was he worth stretching Little for - no, he wasn't.

But the second point, bolded, I have always thought getting Beals expiring of $57m was much more valuable than signing somebody for the MLE. Royce O'Neale is around the MLE. Come on- you can sign a veteran for two years and get some level of play that you can get by with that will allow you to get a huge expiring. And if you can move one of Allen or O'Neale for a contract that expires in 2027 - now you have over $70m.

So it might be a two year window to get the pot of expiring gold - but for me, its worth it over signing an average player to look like you are doing something but in baseball teams the WAR you are getting for that player is like half a game.

[Fo-Real]

I'd definitely prefer claxton over Vassell

in all honesty. Claxton isn't even good. Richards and Claxton are about the same talent.

Claxton is comfortably better especially on the defensive end

Claxton makes 27 mil, Nick macks 5. Is Claxton worth 22 million dollars more? Is he worth nearly 30 million dollars at all.

[lilfishi22]

Yes - for the same reason I want to hold onto Beal to get maximum value in two summers, no need to stretch "Barnes" if they trade for him. Hell Barnes might have value at the trade deadline as an expiring contract.

The Suns need to start playing the long game. Maybe not as long as Presti did in OKC - but because Ishbia had to bring back Bol Bol or sign Tyus Jones, he actually screwed himself over stretching Little for whatever nominal amount. Hell Mason Plumlee.

So enough of the short term fixes that are a like a dopamine shot of adrenalin for Mat so I can sign a player and have Gambo and Flex say "Suns are killing it on the veteran market" - but take along term viewer with some of these moves/

100%

If we happen to be good in the short term, it's going to be because of a trade or if we're going to be good in the long term, it's going to be via good players/assets and clean books. We're NOT going to be good in either short or long term because we waive and stretched tens of millions of dollars over 3-5 years and was able to slip under the 2nd apron and signed someone with a $5.7m MLE.

I get part of the reason MatIshbia wants to stretch Beal is because of the luxury tax implications. Granted, if he had not signed Plumlee or Jones or Bol Bol and just sucked it up with Little - he could have stretched Beal this offseason and saved $100m each year for two years. So again, short term gain and now look at the long term pain Ishbia did. And didn't anybody read the damn CBA about % of money dead. And I know Bol Bol was a pretty good player but really - was he worth stretching Little for - no, he wasn't.

But the second point, bolded, I have always thought getting Beals expiring of $57m was much more valuable than signing somebody for the MLE. Royce O'Neale is around the MLE. Come on- you can sign a veteran for two years and get some level of play that you can get by with that will allow you to get a huge expiring. And if you can move one of Allen or O'Neale for a contract that expires in 2027 - now you have over $70m.

So it might be a two year window to get the pot of expiring gold - but for me, its worth it over signing an average player to look like you are doing something but in baseball teams the WAR you are getting for that player is like half a game.

Because it is.

Even without a Beal stretch scenario, it was short-sighted to stretch Little. I wanted us to run the value rehab path but I do kind of see some rationale with the gambit because we still A LOT of money invested in the Big 3 (and the rest of the roster) and we couldn't just do nothing when Ish is paying that much for this roster. It's a relatively small sacrifice (around 2.5% of the salary cap) to open up possibility to bring on potentially rewarding signings in Bol, Plumlee and Tyus. In particular with Tyus, which if it worked and we were like a 50 something win team and made a decent run in the playoffs, I think it would've been a worthy punt.

But while I still didn't necessarily agree with stretching Little, talking about stretching Beal is a completely different animal because of how much it cost. Also if you manage to buyout and stretch Beal and it ends up being like ~$20m a year for the next 5 year which is likely to be paired with Book's extension, you'd essentially have Book and the ghost of Beal in the books into the 2030's at (approx) $73m, $77m, $81m, $92m and $98m.