The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 2

[lilfishi22]

in all honesty. Claxton isn't even good. Richards and Claxton are about the same talent.

Claxton is comfortably better especially on the defensive end

Claxton makes 27 mil, Nick macks 5. Is Claxton worth 22 million dollars more? Is he worth nearly 30 million dollars at all.

Never said he was $20m+ better. Just saying he is a comfortably better player than Richards. Which is why one guy is on $27m and the other on a $5m team option.

[Fo-Real]

Claxton is comfortably better especially on the defensive end

Claxton makes 27 mil, Nick macks 5. Is Claxton worth 22 million dollars more? Is he worth nearly 30 million dollars at all.

Never said he was $20m+ better. Just saying he is a comfortably better player than Richards. Which is why one guy is on $27m and the other on a $5m team option.

Neither is a needle mover at all. Getting back and overpaid center with no real skill is not a win in a KD trade.

[Sunsdeuce]

Kellan Olsen:

Jordan Ott's two big pillars for his offensive philosophy are pace and movement. Knows that's what everyone says but specifically mentioned cutting, and alluded to how much success Cleveland had with all that movement last year. Extra possessions, early clock, etc.

On defense it's what you would expect, with aggression, effort, connectivity and so on. I'm sure there's some really inside baseball stuff with scheme work and such he wants to do. Will pick his brain in training camp on that!

Oh wow, so basic basketball 101. Ott seems like a trailblazing innovator.

[Sunsdeuce]

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Appealing for who exactly???

Lol, NAA!!

We all agree this is a trash trade and Miami has next to zero percent chance of landing KD. We all would like to put the KD to Miami to bed as it ain’t happening.

My question is why is Evan so in love with Duncan Robinson and Andrew Wiggins? Both are just blah players.

[Mr Puddles]

I don't know what your fascination is with the instant gratification of a waive and stretch. You've made the same case for Nurk. That's two guys you could literally hang onto for a season and you have the full $12-19m completely come off the books with no skeletons moving forward.

Yes - for the same reason I want to hold onto Beal to get maximum value in two summers, no need to stretch "Barnes" if they trade for him. Hell Barnes might have value at the trade deadline as an expiring contract.

The Suns need to start playing the long game. Maybe not as long as Presti did in OKC - but because Ishbia had to bring back Bol Bol or sign Tyus Jones, he actually screwed himself over stretching Little for whatever nominal amount. Hell Mason Plumlee.

So enough of the short term fixes that are a like a dopamine shot of adrenalin for Mat so I can sign a player and have Gambo and Flex say "Suns are killing it on the veteran market" - but take along term viewer with some of these moves/

100%

If we happen to be good in the short term, it's going to be because of a trade or if we're going to be good in the long term, it's going to be via good players/assets and clean books. We're NOT going to be good in either short or long term because we waive and stretched tens of millions of dollars over 3-5 years and was able to slip under the 2nd apron and signed someone with a $5.7m MLE.

Exactly, two seasons from now we only have 95mil on the books, with our best player locked up for another 3 years, and only good contracts (O'Neal, Grayson, last year's rookies), and Little's stretch. Any contract we take on right now, shouldn't be longer than the 26/27 season unless it's a huge positive (like presumably the rookie contracts we're about to add).

We should absolutely avoid stretching. If the Suns tough out the next two years, they'll be a good position in the 27 offseason. That should be our focus. With the way the cap has been going up, we'll have a ton of money and will have regained a lot of draft capital moving forward.

[lilfishi22]

Claxton makes 27 mil, Nick macks 5. Is Claxton worth 22 million dollars more? Is he worth nearly 30 million dollars at all.

Never said he was $20m+ better. Just saying he is a comfortably better player than Richards. Which is why one guy is on $27m and the other on a $5m team option.

Neither is a needle mover at all. Getting back and overpaid center with no real skill is not a win in a KD trade.

Defense is a skill and he's a good versatile defender. He has his weaknesses against good scoring big but very few bigs can go up against all types of players. Gobert can defend anyone in the post but he often gets pulled out of the middle and torched on the perimeter. Claxton can't defend every type of big in the post but he can hold his own very well against perimeter scorers. He's being paid for his defensive versatility, his offensive efficiency (had a down year last year though) and being a net positive on the court. He's heading into his 2nd year of his extension at $25m but it'll continue to decline to $23m and $21m. I think he's a fantastic player on a good salary (slightly over valued right now) and his trade value will continue to grow the way his contract is structured.

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[lilfishi22]

Yes - for the same reason I want to hold onto Beal to get maximum value in two summers, no need to stretch "Barnes" if they trade for him. Hell Barnes might have value at the trade deadline as an expiring contract.

The Suns need to start playing the long game. Maybe not as long as Presti did in OKC - but because Ishbia had to bring back Bol Bol or sign Tyus Jones, he actually screwed himself over stretching Little for whatever nominal amount. Hell Mason Plumlee.

So enough of the short term fixes that are a like a dopamine shot of adrenalin for Mat so I can sign a player and have Gambo and Flex say "Suns are killing it on the veteran market" - but take along term viewer with some of these moves/

100%

If we happen to be good in the short term, it's going to be because of a trade or if we're going to be good in the long term, it's going to be via good players/assets and clean books. We're NOT going to be good in either short or long term because we waive and stretched tens of millions of dollars over 3-5 years and was able to slip under the 2nd apron and signed someone with a $5.7m MLE.

Exactly, two seasons from now we only have 95mil on the books, with our best player locked up for another 3 years, and only good contracts (O'Neal, Grayson, last year's rookies), and Little's stretch. Any contract we take on right now, shouldn't be longer than the 26/27 season unless it's a huge positive (like presumably the rookie contracts we're about to add).

We should absolutely avoid stretching. If the Suns tough out the next two years, they'll be a good position in the 27 offseason. That should be our focus. With the way the cap has been going up, we'll have a ton of money and will have regained a lot of draft capital moving forward.

Even if we did absolutely nothing, ie no trades, we would notionally be under the salary cap at the end of this upcoming season. We would have $152m committed to Book, Beal (last expiring), Grayson, Royce, the two sophomores and dead salary in 2026 (cap will be around $170m). We won't have much cap space to work with but we'll already be far below the 2nd apron ($228m) and a long way around from even the 1st apron ($215m).

Just practice a little bit of fiscal responsibility and we're already on our way towards clean books as soon as the next offseason. Stretching Beal makes absolutely no sense to me whatsoever.

[DirtyDez]

If the Spurs low ball us we’re holding him hostage.

[Qwigglez]

I wouldn't accept any Spurs deal unless the No 2 pick is coming back. Spurs don't even need the pick if they ended up trading for KD.

[DirtyDez]

I wouldn't accept any Spurs deal unless the No 2 pick is coming back. Spurs don't even need the pick if they ended up trading for KD.

I’d do #14 and one of the Atlanta picks.

[Fo-Real]

I wouldn't accept any Spurs deal unless the No 2 pick is coming back. Spurs don't even need the pick if they ended up trading for KD.

Not at all realistic.

[Qwigglez]

I wouldn't accept any Spurs deal unless the No 2 pick is coming back. Spurs don't even need the pick if they ended up trading for KD.

I’d do #14 and one of the Atlanta picks.

That seems like selling low for a player that averaged over 26 points, 6 rebounds, and 4 assists. I get that Durant is older, but he's a generational player that will likely still average over 25 points a game on incredible efficiency over the next 2 to 3 seasons.

[lilfishi22]

I wouldn't accept any Spurs deal unless the No 2 pick is coming back. Spurs don't even need the pick if they ended up trading for KD.

I’d do #14 and one of the Atlanta picks.

That seems like selling low for a player that averaged over 26 points, 6 rebounds, and 4 assists. I get that Durant is older, but he's a generational player that will likely still average over 25 points a game on incredible efficiency over the next 2 to 3 seasons.

Probably but #2 is also an overpay for a 37 year old. A 2-3 year window that isn't a guaranteed contender is not worth the #2 in most drafts.

[garrick]

Never said he was $20m+ better. Just saying he is a comfortably better player than Richards. Which is why one guy is on $27m and the other on a $5m team option.

Neither is a needle mover at all. Getting back and overpaid center with no real skill is not a win in a KD trade.

Defense is a skill and he's a good versatile defender. He has his weaknesses against good scoring big but very few bigs can go up against all types of players. Gobert can defend anyone in the post but he often gets pulled out of the middle and torched on the perimeter. Claxton can't defend every type of big in the post but he can hold his own very well against perimeter scorers. He's being paid for his defensive versatility, his offensive efficiency (had a down year last year though) and being a net positive on the court. He's heading into his 2nd year of his extension at $25m but it'll continue to decline to $23m and $21m. I think he's a fantastic player on a good salary (slightly over valued right now) and his trade value will continue to grow the way his contract is structured.

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I like Claxton the only issue with him is he is a bit undersized so he tends to get pushed around by bigger centers like Jokic, Embiid, Nurkic so you definitely want a bigger center to back him up which is fine since we have Richards.

[bullsaficianado]

LOL. KD is not worth the #2 pick. He is going to be 37 not 27. Of course I would take it though but Spurs will say a hard no.

[Ghost of Kleine]

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[garrick]

Knicks only best offer involve KAT.

Mitchell Robinson killed Celtics because he was the biggest player on the court and Celtics were tiny without Porzingis who is injured.

But against other big men, he is mediocre at best and will be fouled a lot since he can't shoot FTs. He's a good backup.

Funny the bigs Suns are targeting are about valued at 20 to 25M per year type of centers are still far below what Suns had with a happy Ayton, who when not sulking and playing half ass, is great value now for 33M a year.


Suns are just simply horrible for trading Ayton for peanuts not waiting until he upped his value. Because all they have to show for him is Nick Richards and Grayson Allen.... while also getting rid of Toumani, who is a very good defender.



Suns are just garbage. Ishiba is garbage.

The Suns front office simply believed the rhetoric that any athletic center could replicate Ayton's numbers playing with KD and Booker. If the Suns botch this off-season I'll probably jump ship to the Blazers (since I live in the area).

Similar to how Sarver signed Hakeem Warrick thinking he could be mini Stat because he was good at dunking.

The communication between KD and Book & Ayton was really poor, well it wasn't just between them but the two leaders of our team couldn't lead their way out of a paper bag unfortunately so the issue wasn't the surrounding pieces it was our highest paid players being terrible leaders and not held accountable for their failings.

[Ghost of Kleine]

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Appealing for who exactly???

Lol, NAA!!

We all agree this is a trash trade and Miami has next to zero percent chance of landing KD. We all would like to put the KD to Miami to bed as it ain’t happening.

My question is why is Evan so in love with Duncan Robinson and Andrew Wiggins? Both are just blah players.

[lilfishi22]

Neither is a needle mover at all. Getting back and overpaid center with no real skill is not a win in a KD trade.

Defense is a skill and he's a good versatile defender. He has his weaknesses against good scoring big but very few bigs can go up against all types of players. Gobert can defend anyone in the post but he often gets pulled out of the middle and torched on the perimeter. Claxton can't defend every type of big in the post but he can hold his own very well against perimeter scorers. He's being paid for his defensive versatility, his offensive efficiency (had a down year last year though) and being a net positive on the court. He's heading into his 2nd year of his extension at $25m but it'll continue to decline to $23m and $21m. I think he's a fantastic player on a good salary (slightly over valued right now) and his trade value will continue to grow the way his contract is structured.

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I like Claxton the only issue with him is he is a bit undersized so he tends to get pushed around by bigger centers like Jokic, Embiid, Nurkic so you definitely want a bigger center to back him up which is fine since we have Richards.

Of course. Can't really do much about the size disparity but there's only so many big guys with the skills and size to really punish you. In the vast majority of cases, he holds his own and he's a comfortable net positive against most teams. I also love his ability to guard out to the perimeter and on the switch which is a highly valued skill in the modern NBA.

[Ghost of Kleine]

I wouldn't want Robinson. He's played less than 50 regular season games in the last two seasons. He did play 18 playoff games this postseason but he can only play only a handful of minutes. Combine him with Nick Richards and the Suns center rotation is still terrible. I'd rather just deal for KAT and perhaps Kolek if Suns are able to nab him.

I'd only want him as an expiring contract that we could buy out and then stretch the remaining money for 3 or 5 yrs to cumulatively create more cap flexibility. Or maybe trade him elsewhere to a team that's desperate for a center option for a late 1st or a couple of 2nds?

I don't know what your fascination is with the instant gratification of a waive and stretch. You've made the same case for Nurk. That's two guys you could literally hang onto for a season and you have the full $12-19m completely come off the books with no skeletons moving forward.

I'm really fine with either path man. I only mention it because people make such a big deal out of the premise of trading for either player despite the consideration of the underlying value as an expiring contract.

Now I could reasonably see either fill a role off our bench or get sent home and not even be a consideration. I honestly have no animosity towards either player. And of course having clean books is optimal after a season.


HOWEVER, If we don't actually have a trade planned for the acquisition of a starting center and/ or guard, it occurs to me that having that kind of immediate reduction/ flexibility for this very summer when you have centers like Brook Lopez, Myles Turner, Clint Capela and Steven Adams hitting unrestricted free agency,

Being able to generate the necessary cap space to sign one of those centers or a center and a guard might be worth it for us. But I'm also not at all opposed to sitting on those players for 1 yr and then being completely free and clear as I'm one of the original people (along with Bobbi L) to suggest it with Beal and in trades taking back players like MPJr, Randle, KCP, and others, etc.

The buyout/ stretch premise was really just mentioned to point out that it is a viable option to create more immediate cap flexibility if there's a target for us in free agency this summer. Nothing much beyond that.