Lets admit the obvious: SGA is a better player than Luka

[Archx]

I won't even bother to check who bumped this today and why, but as much as I'm a Luka fan over Shai, SGA played an absolute tremendous game last night, so I hope it's not about him coming up short. Team sport, remember.

It's the nature of it. Team sport yes but remember all the **** Luka got last year when Mavs lost to Celtics? His nr2 option Kyrie played one of the worst basketball of his life, role players managed to hit only !!! 4 !!! three point shots in first 2 games on over 30 wide open shots (according to NBA.com). Now guess twice who the so called analysts blamed the most? The only guy who actually showed up.

Same will happen to SGA if OKC loses... though i think OKC has such a strong team that it's almost impossible to lose 4 games even if they try. But i have been wrong before lol.

[ImmortalD24]

It's SGA and it ain't even close IMHO.

[Rubios]

SGA is playing insane, historic Finals so far, but this is recency bias at his finest.

Remember Luka @ '22 beating the Suns to the WCF basically by himself, closing the series with a 45/12/8 IN PHOENIX?

Well, 32.4/9.6/8.2 vs Wolves just last year.

THE most amazing individual scoring performance I've ever seen (and I've seen Lillard's 71 and Kobe's 81, i.e.) against Atlanta?
Yes, it was Atlanta and RS. Just watch that game. Also from the past season.

Luka's 2023-2024 season was objectively better than this one from Shai. He didn't get the MVP because some guy called Jokic exists and he "only" had two back then.

Luka has had an injury. That's it.

Don't get me wrong, Shai is something to behold.
But Luka is just a generational talent.

[Patches Perry]

Luka's 2023-2024 season was objectively better than this one from Shai. He didn't get the MVP because some guy called Jokic exists and he "only" had two back then.

Luka didn't get 2nd in MVP voting in 23-24 though, that was also Shai.

[bbms]

Luka's 2023-2024 season was objectively better than this one from Shai. He didn't get the MVP because some guy called Jokic exists and he "only" had two back then.

Luka didn't get 2nd in MVP voting in 23-24 though, that was also Shai.

i don't think any impact metric favored luka over shai imo. xrapm and epm certainly didn't

[Mavrelous]

Luka's 2023-2024 season was objectively better than this one from Shai. He didn't get the MVP because some guy called Jokic exists and he "only" had two back then.

Luka didn't get 2nd in MVP voting in 23-24 though, that was also Shai.

i don't think any impact metric favored luka over shai imo. xrapm and epm certainly didn't

Luka had better EPM than SGA.
He was better in both O-EPM and D-EPM, for the defense crowd in the back, better counting stats and better BPM also.
He was penalized for having 7 less wins when he had Lively, Kyrie, Exum and Maxi all miss 20+ games and PJ/Gafford came only at the deadline.
There was no justification to have SGA over him, and he should've been above Jokic also if we account for advanced stats bias towards centers with terrible backups, the PO showed the level he was in.

[bbms]

Luka didn't get 2nd in MVP voting in 23-24 though, that was also Shai.

i don't think any impact metric favored luka over shai imo. xrapm and epm certainly didn't

Luka had better EPM than SGA.
He was better in both O-EPM and D-EPM, for the defense crowd in the back, better counting stats and better BPM also.
He was penalized for having 7 less wins when he had Lively, Kyrie and Maxi all miss 20+ games and PJ/Gafford came only at the deadline.
There was no justification to have SGA over him, and he should've been above Jokic also if we account for advanced stats bias towards centers with terrible backups, the PO showed the level he was in.

i don't have access to past season to check both epm, but xrapm gives a slight edge for sga (with a full 1.1 over luka on defensive xrapm) and darko's career projection shows a scissor graphic that has sga overtaking doncic a good 150 career games ago

not like that matters all that much because shai just cemented a more significant difference between them this season than it's ever been when doncic was ahead of sga

[Mavrelous]

i don't think any impact metric favored luka over shai imo. xrapm and epm certainly didn't

Luka had better EPM than SGA.
He was better in both O-EPM and D-EPM, for the defense crowd in the back, better counting stats and better BPM also.
He was penalized for having 7 less wins when he had Lively, Kyrie and Maxi all miss 20+ games and PJ/Gafford came only at the deadline.
There was no justification to have SGA over him, and he should've been above Jokic also if we account for advanced stats bias towards centers with terrible backups, the PO showed the level he was in.

i don't have access to past season to check both epm, but xrapm gives a slight edge for sga (with a full 1.1 over luka on defensive xrapm) and darko's career projection shows a scissor graphic that has sga overtaking doncic a good 150 career games ago

not like that matters all that much because shai just cemented a more significant difference between them this season than it's ever been when doncic was ahead of sga

If it doesn't matter why did you make the false statement in the 1st place?
Everyone has access to the top 5, you can see for yourself
https://dunksandthrees.com/epm?season=2024

[bbms]

Luka had better EPM than SGA.
He was better in both O-EPM and D-EPM, for the defense crowd in the back, better counting stats and better BPM also.
He was penalized for having 7 less wins when he had Lively, Kyrie and Maxi all miss 20+ games and PJ/Gafford came only at the deadline.
There was no justification to have SGA over him, and he should've been above Jokic also if we account for advanced stats bias towards centers with terrible backups, the PO showed the level he was in.

i don't have access to past season to check both epm, but xrapm gives a slight edge for sga (with a full 1.1 over luka on defensive xrapm) and darko's career projection shows a scissor graphic that has sga overtaking doncic a good 150 career games ago

not like that matters all that much because shai just cemented a more significant difference between them this season than it's ever been when doncic was ahead of sga

If it doesn't matter why did you make the false statement in the 1st place?
Everyone has access to the top 5, you can see for yourself
https://dunksandthrees.com/epm?season=2024

wrong assumption. sorry. thank you for correcting.
epm did just take a dip in relevance to me though, for having doncic there with shai. xrapm indicates a significand difference in defense in favor of sga, which is more defensible imo.

[falcolombardi]

Is fine to prefer one or another (albeit is insane to not admit this was a down year for luka compared to shai)

But all the comments comparing slashlines by using rebounds but not turnovers continue missing the point that should have been learned from 8 months of shai vs jokic discourse

There is more to basketball than points/assists/rebounds, even just statistically

[Archx]

Luka's 2023-2024 season was objectively better than this one from Shai. He didn't get the MVP because some guy called Jokic exists and he "only" had two back then.

Luka didn't get 2nd in MVP voting in 23-24 though, that was also Shai.

You're right, this was Luka in 23-24 and came only 3rd in MVP votes.

[HumbleRen]

Give me SGA.

Luka has the edge on offence but the defensive gap is wide as the Grand Canyon.

[MoneyTalks41890]

This isn’t a debate unless/until Luka can play on Shai’s level. Wasn’t close this past year.

[Rubios]

Stats are useful. Very. They allow you to better understand the game. Yes, TO are a stat, too.

Still, eye test if you watch a big enough sample of games and have done it for several years has more value.

Jokic is the best player in the league and has been for 5 years. Giannis has a case if considering a team seriously lacking defense.

And Luka has done things SGA has not been able to do, or not yet.

[Slimjimzv]

All you stat hunters are not recognizing what intangibles SGA brings to his team. Luka has better stats. SGA is a better player. Of course, I could be wrong.

[ChumboChappati]

Luka > SGA. Remember Luka is a generational talent, SGA is not.

[bbms]

Luka's 2023-2024 season was objectively better than this one from Shai. He didn't get the MVP because some guy called Jokic exists and he "only" had two back then.

Luka didn't get 2nd in MVP voting in 23-24 though, that was also Shai.

You're right, this was Luka in 23-24 and came only 3rd in MVP votes.

great season

third most valuable player on a great year

[Chokic]

Luka > SGA. Remember Luka is a generational talent, SGA is not.

What is that based on besides narratives? There's been player throughout nba history that far exceeded expectations and surpassed players that were previously regarded much higher.

[Patches Perry]

And Luka has done things SGA has not been able to do, or not yet.

What things? It seems like the list of things SGA has been able to do that Luka hasn't is the longer list at this point.

[Archx]

great season

third most valuable player on a great year

Yeah, it's absolutely wild to say "third most valuable player" after a season like that. Even though most NBA fans (outside of Oklahoma) are in agreement he should have been at least 2nd in voting if not first. But the goal posts in MVP voting have been moved so many times in recent years, you never know anymore what is a reasonable argument to put someone ahead or not.