2025 NBA Draft (2)

[sodmoraes]

currently a Tre guy

but there is an inner Ace guy in me talking to me like a green goblin mask.

"I don't think he's good....but what if doe"

There are two wolves inside you.

One analyzes DBPVAPES% per36 for hours on end.

One simply whispers "Dat boy nice."

I don't even think Ace is nice. Has so many red flags and the tape isn't even that great

but again what if doe lol.

Its doubly harder because our best two players longterm are smallish guards...so adding another albeit slightly bigger guard in Tre or VJ, while doesn't matter in the short term as they can come off the bench...it is still a fear. I wish I was as high as Negrodamus is on Queen but I am scared of the current body.

The wing scorer is the holy grail man....Ace TECHNICALLY can be that...but there is a lot of IFs and we don't do well with those lol.

Ignore all the noises and all the " what if´s".. If your grandmother had wheels she would be a bike and you wouldnt be born. Acept Ace, be team Bailey!

[Stanford]

Ignore all the noises and all the " what if´s".. If your grandmother had wheels she would be a bike and you wouldnt be born. Acept Ace, be team Bailey!

[76ciology]

I meant the similarities in their driving game. They both are very shifty when they're dealing with P&R's, using their wide bodies and plenty of fakes to get efficient shots despite their limited athleticism and relative positional length.
I get the Allen comparison, but I feel he's more a traditional SG with a more dynamic shooting style, but more limited playmaking/P&R capabilities.

The Knueppel intrigue from my side is based on his upside as a secondary playmaker. I feel that he's capable of far more than what he has showed at Duke this year.

When we talk about secondary playmakers, we’re essentially referring to guys who default as second options. I see your point, and I’m also intrigued by him in that role. But when I look around the league, most secondary playmakers actually possess primary creation skills (even Siakam was #1 for Raps), they’re just in that secondary role because they share the floor with a true alpha. That might be the case with him at Duke, especially playing alongside Flagg. And thats why its really hard to evaluate Kneuppel, the evaluator has to do a lot of guessing of what he’s really capable of.

Still, the more valuable archetype for a second option tends to be someone who can take over as a lead guard or dominant scorer when needed. Like how Jalen Williams or Maxey can step in and run the offense when SGA or Embiid sits. And if I look at his numbers, his unassisted FGs in HC does not show that, although he showed flashes of being a #1 in HS. And IMO that kind of versatility is what separates true second options from guys like Grayson Allen or Quentin Grimes.

[Iverson Armband]

Most overused words/phrases for draft cycle 2025:

shot diet
“in shoes”
overthink
Rim pressure

Anything else?

[Damienfan]

Backing Ace at 3 is a religious experience. It takes A LOT of faith.

[Kolkmania]

I meant the similarities in their driving game. They both are very shifty when they're dealing with P&R's, using their wide bodies and plenty of fakes to get efficient shots despite their limited athleticism and relative positional length.
I get the Allen comparison, but I feel he's more a traditional SG with a more dynamic shooting style, but more limited playmaking/P&R capabilities.

The Knueppel intrigue from my side is based on his upside as a secondary playmaker. I feel that he's capable of far more than what he has showed at Duke this year.

When we talk about secondary playmakers, we’re essentially referring to guys who default as second options. I see your point, and I’m also intrigued by him in that role. But when I look around the league, most secondary playmakers actually possess primary creation skills (even Siakam was #1 for Raps), they’re just in that secondary role because they share the floor with a true alpha. That might be the case with him at Duke, especially playing alongside Flagg. And thats why its really hard to evaluate Kneuppel, the evaluator has to do a lot of guessing of what he’s really capable of.

Still, the more valuable archetype for a second option tends to be someone who can take over as a lead guard or dominant scorer when needed. Like how Jalen Williams or Maxey can step in and run the offense when SGA or Embiid sits. And if I look at his numbers, his unassisted FGs in HC does not show that, although he showed flashes of being a #1 in HS. And IMO that kind of versatility is what separates true second options from guys like Grayson Allen or Quentin Grimes.

We agree on the description of secondary playmaker. Basically a primary playmaker, but just not good enough to do it consistently against the best defender of the opposing team. Can do it in spurts when the primary playmaker is out, or run P&Rs as secondary actions within an offensive possession.
I do think that Knueppel can reach that level based on his HS tape and the moments that Flagg was out and Knueppel got the assignment as their main option.

I think he has the strength and length to post smaller guards and playmake from the post, has the ball handling to tightly navigate around screens that make lengthy forwards uncomfortable and a bag full of tricks around the basket to create a small gap for a nifty layup or short turnaround jumper. Adding an off the dribble three to make dropping bigs guessing would be important of course.

He'll struggle against good wing defenders on one-on-one siutations though. Wouldn't give him the ball in the last 5 seconds to create a good shot.

[youngcrev]

Ignore all the noises and all the " what if´s".. If your grandmother had wheels she would be a bike and you wouldnt be born. Acept Ace, be team Bailey!

Hmm... Can't decide...

The Book of Ace makes it immediate in terms of name recognition.

But The Book of Bailey has the alliteration.

[Arsenal]

Whenever I see Kon drive to the rim, I get a slower/jumbo-Jalen Brunson feeling. College opponents also knew he wasn't shooting off the dribble, but he got to the rim anyway and was able to get the rim protector off balance with nifty fakes, little bumps, etc.
I think it is absolutely within the realm of possibilities that he will add an off the dribble jumper to this repertoire, but that he was able to finish so efficiently without, is a big plus for me.

I don’t see the Brunson comparison with Kon, but I do see it with Kasparas. Kon can’t be a lead guard unlike Brunson and he typically needs a screen to get open and isn’t reliable shooting off the bounce. In contrast, Kasparas shows more of that self-creation ability, and the similarities go even deeper when you factor in his 50 FTr.

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On the other hand, I see Kon as more comparable to Grayson Allen. Both thrive as tertiary playmakers and off-ball scorers, with high IQ, great feel, and efficient production. Their games might not draw much attention, but they consistently contribute specially when they are given bigger roles (14-15ppg 4rpg 4apg as a starter in the last two seasons)

Spoiler:

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[youtube] https://youtu.be/bc9dT9T-hIg [/youtube]

I meant the similarities in their driving game. They both are very shifty when they're dealing with P&R's, using their wide bodies and plenty of fakes to get efficient shots despite their limited athleticism and relative positional length.
I get the Allen comparison, but I feel he's more a traditional SG with a more dynamic shooting style, but more limited playmaking/P&R capabilities.

The Knueppel intrigue from my side is based on his upside as a secondary playmaker. I feel that he's capable of far more than what he has showed at Duke this year.

Grayson Allen was also a far superior athlete vs. Kon. That's why Kon skipped the athletic testing at the combine with a bogus injury, and appears to be running out the clock on ever doing those tests before the draft.

[LeonJordanJr24]

76ers dont need Tre Johnson. We Ace need the better upside,fit and all around player. Defense,rebounding and rim protection is important. Tough midrange and 3s as well. Tre is not a better prospect than Ace... Tre is better than vj. But not ace.

[zaz102]

In defense of Ace, when watching Rutgers, it popped to me how abysmal the rest of the team was, specifically turnovers, bad shooting, and not getting open.

You can compare the numbers between Rutgers (sans Ace and Harper), Baylor (sans VJ), and Texas (sans Tre). You can see how bad the shooting especially the 3 point shooting was at Rutgers as compared to the other teams. You can also see the TOs were a level worse than the others.

I still wish Ace could find a way to get his assists and inside shooting/free throw rate up, but I do think its reasonable to think those numbers might go up a bit if the rest of the team was more competent and there was more plays ran for Ace rather than just isoball.

[Arsenal]

In defense of Ace, when watching Rutgers, it popped to me how abysmal the rest of the team was, specifically turnovers, bad shooting, and not getting open.

You can compare the numbers between Rutgers (sans Ace and Harper), Baylor (sans VJ), and Texas (sans Tre). You can see how bad the shooting especially the 3 point shooting was at Rutgers as compared to the other teams. You can also see the TOs were a level worse than the others.

I still wish Ace could find a way to get his assists and inside shooting/free throw rate up, but I do think its reasonable to think those numbers might go up a bit if the rest of the team was more competent and there was more plays ran for Ace rather than just isoball.

Haven't you heard, having terrible teammates is just an excuse? There's no statistical benefit to being surrounded by talented players!

[Negrodamus]

In defense of Ace, when watching Rutgers, it popped to me how abysmal the rest of the team was, specifically turnovers, bad shooting, and not getting open.

You can compare the numbers between Rutgers (sans Ace and Harper), Baylor (sans VJ), and Texas (sans Tre). You can see how bad the shooting especially the 3 point shooting was at Rutgers as compared to the other teams. You can also see the TOs were a level worse than the others.

I still wish Ace could find a way to get his assists and inside shooting/free throw rate up, but I do think its reasonable to think those numbers might go up a bit if the rest of the team was more competent and there was more plays ran for Ace rather than just isoball.

To be fair, you should probably remove the top 2 players from Baylor and Texas since the top two were removed from Rutgers.

[Kolkmania]

I don’t see the Brunson comparison with Kon, but I do see it with Kasparas. Kon can’t be a lead guard unlike Brunson and he typically needs a screen to get open and isn’t reliable shooting off the bounce. In contrast, Kasparas shows more of that self-creation ability, and the similarities go even deeper when you factor in his 50 FTr.

Spoiler:

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Read on Twitter

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On the other hand, I see Kon as more comparable to Grayson Allen. Both thrive as tertiary playmakers and off-ball scorers, with high IQ, great feel, and efficient production. Their games might not draw much attention, but they consistently contribute specially when they are given bigger roles (14-15ppg 4rpg 4apg as a starter in the last two seasons)

Spoiler:

Watch on YouTube

[youtube] https://youtu.be/bc9dT9T-hIg [/youtube]

I meant the similarities in their driving game. They both are very shifty when they're dealing with P&R's, using their wide bodies and plenty of fakes to get efficient shots despite their limited athleticism and relative positional length.
I get the Allen comparison, but I feel he's more a traditional SG with a more dynamic shooting style, but more limited playmaking/P&R capabilities.

The Knueppel intrigue from my side is based on his upside as a secondary playmaker. I feel that he's capable of far more than what he has showed at Duke this year.

Grayson Allen was also a far superior athlete vs. Kon. That's why Kon skipped the athletic testing at the combine with a bogus injury, and appears to be running out the clock on ever doing those tests before the draft.

He's obviously not outrunning or outjumping other prospects, but aside from lateral quickness issues with his one-on-one defending, I don't see his athletic limitations lead to major deficiencies on the court. I personally don't rate those combine measurements at all, it's the type of stuff that make you pick Bagley and Ayton instead of Doncic.

[zaz102]

In defense of Ace, when watching Rutgers, it popped to me how abysmal the rest of the team was, specifically turnovers, bad shooting, and not getting open.

You can compare the numbers between Rutgers (sans Ace and Harper), Baylor (sans VJ), and Texas (sans Tre). You can see how bad the shooting especially the 3 point shooting was at Rutgers as compared to the other teams. You can also see the TOs were a level worse than the others.

I still wish Ace could find a way to get his assists and inside shooting/free throw rate up, but I do think its reasonable to think those numbers might go up a bit if the rest of the team was more competent and there was more plays ran for Ace rather than just isoball.

To be fair, you should probably remove the top 2 players from Baylor and Texas since the top two were removed from Rutgers.

I'll do a better, I'll add Dylan Harper and I'll add the stats for the '17 Duke team (sans Tatum).

Harper is also not a great shooter and his TO numbers were good but not great.

[CPops57]

Kon is just a shooter, and personally admitted to not wanting to score inside or in the midrange.

First of all, maybe you can argue that somebody like Corey Kispert is just a shooter, but not Kon. Other aspects of his game such as his handle and vision for his position are good.

Second of all, you're taking a fair bit of creative license with the interview that was posted.

Kon did not mention not wanting to score inside. That is an absurd take as he has better numbers going to the rim and finishing than many of the prospects in the Sixers range.

https://databallr.com/NBADraft/profile/Kon_Knueppel/126925

Kon did not mention not wanting to score from the midrange. He specifically cited working on that more as he thinks it's a great shot for him.

What he mentioned is that he didn't take that shot in High School and it wasn't really part of Duke's strategy.

Unlike some peoples' Lord and Savior, Kon Knueppel is a willing scorer that doesn't take dumb shots outside of the offensive plan.

Now of course, he's got to display a little more of a pull-up or floater game in the pros as that's a good shot for him and gives him more offensive options. There's little reason to believe that a self-aware, disciplined, and high-IQ sniper who can hit long-range bombs cannot add a better midrange game to the mix. That is a totally realistic aspiration for him to develop that.

[Negrodamus]

In defense of Ace, when watching Rutgers, it popped to me how abysmal the rest of the team was, specifically turnovers, bad shooting, and not getting open.

You can compare the numbers between Rutgers (sans Ace and Harper), Baylor (sans VJ), and Texas (sans Tre). You can see how bad the shooting especially the 3 point shooting was at Rutgers as compared to the other teams. You can also see the TOs were a level worse than the others.

I still wish Ace could find a way to get his assists and inside shooting/free throw rate up, but I do think its reasonable to think those numbers might go up a bit if the rest of the team was more competent and there was more plays ran for Ace rather than just isoball.

To be fair, you should probably remove the top 2 players from Baylor and Texas since the top two were removed from Rutgers.

I'll do a better, I'll add Dylan Harper and I'll add the stats for the '17 Duke team (sans Tatum).

Harper is also not a great shooter and his TO numbers were good but not great.

Oh, I wasn't sure if those numbers we were seeing were their statistics when both were off the court. Those are just their season long statistics regardless of who was on the court. I understand now.

[Iverson Armband]

Morey is not taking Kon Knueppel at #3 lol. Maybe there is a trade in play? These two weeks can not come fast enough.

[zaz102]

To be fair, you should probably remove the top 2 players from Baylor and Texas since the top two were removed from Rutgers.

I'll do a better, I'll add Dylan Harper and I'll add the stats for the '17 Duke team (sans Tatum).

Harper is also not a great shooter and his TO numbers were good but not great.

Oh, I wasn't sure if those numbers we were seeing were their statistics when both were off the court. Those are just their season long statistics regardless of who was on the court. I understand now.

Yeah, I was at first planning to take that into account, but the sample size for that is so small.

[LeonJordanJr24]

Take Ace I dnt want kippe

[Stanford]

Has anyone been able to figure out where LeonJordanJr24 stands on the third pick?