Tom Thibodeau fired pt 2

[MrDollarBills]

That was a classy gesture by Tom.

[MrDollarBills]

So I sat basically on/behind the Knick bench half a dozen times this season, and the dynamic I witnessed was:

• Thibs does not acknowledge the existence of any human in the room except the 5 players on the court, the 3 refs, the 1 replay assistant, and the 1 bench player whose name he hollers for substitutions. He literally ignored all other Knick players, coaches, or employees from the moment he stepped out of the tunnel until the moment he went back in. No collaboration, no tips, no nothing. In the very rare occasion that an assistant would hand him something or whisper something, he did not speak back to them or even acknowledged their existence.

• Rick is the boss of everything else. Rick talks to the players, talks to the other assistants, and was the visible/vocal leader of the 10 players and 10 Knick employees who actually sit on the bench.

That was the dynamic. Weird as all hell, but it seemed to work.

If this is true this is really bad

Winning is bad?

Did I say that? If so, please point out where. Thanks.

[JayTWill]

Thibs would have been fired on opening night if he suggested that and rightfully so.

He definitely should have tried Deuce with the starters though.

True, but I would have tried it at least once in the regular season and moreso when we went down 0-2 against the pacers

I don't like KAT, but him on the bench is asinine. Knicks win Game 1 if Thibs adjusted in the 4th. And thus don't lose Game 2 because they're not spooked.

Regular season Deuce was absolute trash. Postseason Deuce was better. I think moving Mitch in was the right move. But the move was wasted the first game it was introduced because KAT picked up 2 stupid fouls, which put Hart with the starters at like the 7 minute mark.

Regular season Deuce still had the 2nd highest net rating on the team and was involved in many of the teams better lineups. Teams still respected his jump shot far more than Hart's and he was a far better POA defender. Even with some of his inconsistencies he was still one of the better catch and shoot players on the team at 40% from 3 at a higher frequency.

The previous season after the IQ trade he looked so much better playing next to Brunson off-ball instead of behind him as an on-ball shot creator for himself and others. When OG was out Thibs eventually swapped Precious for Deuce in the starting lineup. I definitely wish we had more of a chance to see Deuce with the rest of the starters in place of Hart or even Mikal at times. Hopefully the next coach will be a little more flexible with their lineup combinations.

[JayTWill]

So I sat basically on/behind the Knick bench half a dozen times this season, and the dynamic I witnessed was:

• Thibs does not acknowledge the existence of any human in the room except the 5 players on the court, the 3 refs, the 1 replay assistant, and the 1 bench player whose name he hollers for substitutions. He literally ignored all other Knick players, coaches, or employees from the moment he stepped out of the tunnel until the moment he went back in. No collaboration, no tips, no nothing. In the very rare occasion that an assistant would hand him something or whisper something, he did not speak back to them or even acknowledged their existence.

• Rick is the boss of everything else. Rick talks to the players, talks to the other assistants, and was the visible/vocal leader of the 10 players and 10 Knick employees who actually sit on the bench.

That was the dynamic. Weird as all hell, but it seemed to work.

If this is true this is really bad

Winning is bad?

Did you feel like you were watching a well coached team this year?

[Wildcat]

True, but I would have tried it at least once in the regular season and moreso when we went down 0-2 against the pacers

I don't like KAT, but him on the bench is asinine. Knicks win Game 1 if Thibs adjusted in the 4th. And thus don't lose Game 2 because they're not spooked.

Regular season Deuce was absolute trash. Postseason Deuce was better. I think moving Mitch in was the right move. But the move was wasted the first game it was introduced because KAT picked up 2 stupid fouls, which put Hart with the starters at like the 7 minute mark.

Regular season Deuce still had the 2nd highest net rating on the team and was involved in many of the teams better lineups. Teams still respected his jump shot far more than Hart's and he was a far better POA defender. Even with some of his inconsistencies he was still one of the better catch and shoot players on the team at 40% from 3 at a higher frequency.

The previous season after the IQ trade he looked so much better playing next to Brunson off-ball instead of behind him as an on-ball shot creator for himself and others. When OG was out Thibs eventually swapped Precious for Deuce in the starting lineup. I definitely wish we had more of a chance to see Deuce with the rest of the starters in place of Hart or even Mikal at times. Hopefully the next coach will be a little more flexible with their lineup combinations.

That's why net rating is subjective. He had basically career lows in most offensive stats and his D didn't really pick up until postseason.

Only thing I really agree on is Thibs should have experimented more with lineups. More so when the league decided to put a C on Josh. My ideal lineup during preseason was Precious/KAT/OG/Mikal/JB. But Precious got hurt and that lineup never really had a chance. Deuce plays well off of Hart.

[TheGreenArrow]

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Hes officially on twitter now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[mpharris36]

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Hes officially on twitter now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

thibs_96709 sounds like a bot

[DOT]

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thibs_96709 sounds like a bot

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[TheGreenArrow]

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[NYKinMIA]

So areas of need based on what we have under contract:

-Veteran PG (cheap)

- Back up SG (Shamet returns?)

-Back up PF

-Bench wing

Am i missing anything?

I am of the belief that who we have under contract will be here next season.

a partridge in a pear tree.

[Kampuchea]

If this is true this is really bad

Winning is bad?

Did you feel like you were watching a well coached team this year?

Yes, well coached with some limited players defensively (JB and KAT). Top 5 defensive rating.

[Kampuchea]

That was a classy gesture by Tom.

Yes, and the posts with personal attacks on him should come to an end. They should have never been made in the first place.

[Billy Goat]

If this is true this is really bad

Winning is bad?

Did you feel like you were watching a well coached team this year?

Yes. They were the second best team in the east and probably had the 4th or 5th best roster. And when you put it in context with all of the last Knicks coaches of the previous 20 years, he’s Pat Riley. Do you remember David Fizdale? Thibs is intense. I think that’s what the Knicks needed. Enjoy Johnnie Daniel’s and back to the coddling I guess.

[JayTWill]

Winning is bad?

Did you feel like you were watching a well coached team this year?

Yes, well coached with some limited players defensively (JB and KAT). Top 5 defensive rating.

Except the Knicks haven't had a top 5 defensive rating outside of his first year. KAT and JB are clearly poor defenders but I also saw Mikal and OG giving limited effort on the defensive end throughout the season. Hart was terrible defensively. The team has been incredibly inconsistent defensively since his arrival.

Far too often it looked like the team was just going through the motions with guys jogging up and down the court, arguing with the refs, not communicating, not rotating hard, not closing out hard etc. These were not his Chicago Bulls teams.

[Billy Goat]

Did you feel like you were watching a well coached team this year?

Yes, well coached with some limited players defensively (JB and KAT). Top 5 defensive rating.

Except the Knicks haven't had a top 5 defensive rating outside of his first year. KAT and JB are clearly poor defenders but I also saw Mikal and OG giving limited effort on the defensive end throughout the season. Hart was terrible defensively. The team has been incredibly inconsistent defensively since his arrival.

Far too often it looked like the team was just going through the motions with guys jogging up and down the court, arguing with the refs, not communicating, not rotating hard, not closing out hard etc. These were not his Chicago Bulls teams.

I mean you can nitpick every team in the league for dogging it in the regular season. Thibs too over a mess and immediately turned the ship around in partnership with Rose. They’ve overperformed. No one picked them to beat Boston. The Pacers are better and deeper. Haliburton hit a prayer. The rationale still doesn’t make sense and it’s bc he coaches too hard then you’re signing up to go backwards. They’re not bringing in Malone or anyone else that holds guys accountable

[JayTWill]

Winning is bad?

Did you feel like you were watching a well coached team this year?

Yes. They were the second best team in the east and probably had the 4th or 5th best roster. And when you put it in context with all of the last Knicks coaches of the previous 20 years, he’s Pat Riley. Do you remember David Fizdale? Thibs is intense. I think that’s what the Knicks needed. Enjoy Johnnie Daniel’s and back to the coddling I guess.

They were the 2nd team left in the east. I'm not sure they were the 2nd best team. They were just as close to losing in the first round as they were to losing in the first round if the team wasn't saved by Cam Payne in game 1 and the ref at the end of game 4 or whatever one it was against an inexperienced Pistons team.

I'm not comparing Thibs to whatever low bar has been set over the last 20 years or so in New York. I watched this same coach win 62 games in his first year as a head coach playing 10-11 man rotation that included everyone from an older rookie in Asik to old man Kurt Thomas with everyone outside of possibly Boozer and Rose giving maximum effort on the defensive end.

I watched him win 50 games the next year in a lockout shortened 66 game season with Rose missing a good chunk of the year in and out of the lineup for long stretches but for some reason I should be grateful to see him win 50 games in a full season with the amount of talent this roster had.

You said Thibs is intense. Chicago Bulls Thibs was intense. If Boozer was giving low effort Thibs would bench him in favor of Gibson but I watched Randle do whatever he wanted for years and stay on the court without a peep from Thibs. I watched Hart do whatever he wanted this year and stayed on the court. This was just a watered down version of Thibs that was incredibly hard on some players while not getting the most out of other players.

[Billy Goat]

Did you feel like you were watching a well coached team this year?

Yes. They were the second best team in the east and probably had the 4th or 5th best roster. And when you put it in context with all of the last Knicks coaches of the previous 20 years, he’s Pat Riley. Do you remember David Fizdale? Thibs is intense. I think that’s what the Knicks needed. Enjoy Johnnie Daniel’s and back to the coddling I guess.

They were the 2nd team left in the east. I'm not sure they were the 2nd best team. They were just as close to losing in the first round as they were to losing in the first round if the team wasn't saved by Cam Payne in game 1 and the ref at the end of game 4 or whatever one it was against an inexperienced Pistons team.

I'm not comparing Thibs to whatever low bar has been set over the last 20 years or so in New York. I watched this same coach win 62 games in his first year as a head coach playing 10-11 man rotation that included everyone from an older rookie in Asik to old man Kurt Thomas with everyone outside of possibly Boozer and Rose giving maximum effort on the defensive end.

I watched him win 50 games the next year in a lockout shortened 66 game season with Rose missing a good chunk of the year in and out of the lineup for long stretches but for some reason I should be grateful to see him win 50 games in a full season with the amount of talent this roster had.

You said Thibs is intense. Chicago Bulls Thibs was intense. If Boozer was giving low effort Thibs would bench him in favor of Gibson but I watched Randle do whatever he wanted for years and stay on the court without a peep from Thibs. I watched Hart do whatever he wanted this year and stayed on the court. This was just a watered down version of Thibs that was incredibly hard on some players while not getting the most out of other players.

Talent wise, the Knicks were certainly not the second best. The have outperformed their take talent since Thibs started as the coach

[JayTWill]

Yes. They were the second best team in the east and probably had the 4th or 5th best roster. And when you put it in context with all of the last Knicks coaches of the previous 20 years, he’s Pat Riley. Do you remember David Fizdale? Thibs is intense. I think that’s what the Knicks needed. Enjoy Johnnie Daniel’s and back to the coddling I guess.

They were the 2nd team left in the east. I'm not sure they were the 2nd best team. They were just as close to losing in the first round as they were to losing in the first round if the team wasn't saved by Cam Payne in game 1 and the ref at the end of game 4 or whatever one it was against an inexperienced Pistons team.

I'm not comparing Thibs to whatever low bar has been set over the last 20 years or so in New York. I watched this same coach win 62 games in his first year as a head coach playing 10-11 man rotation that included everyone from an older rookie in Asik to old man Kurt Thomas with everyone outside of possibly Boozer and Rose giving maximum effort on the defensive end.

I watched him win 50 games the next year in a lockout shortened 66 game season with Rose missing a good chunk of the year in and out of the lineup for long stretches but for some reason I should be grateful to see him win 50 games in a full season with the amount of talent this roster had.

You said Thibs is intense. Chicago Bulls Thibs was intense. If Boozer was giving low effort Thibs would bench him in favor of Gibson but I watched Randle do whatever he wanted for years and stay on the court without a peep from Thibs. I watched Hart do whatever he wanted this year and stayed on the court. This was just a watered down version of Thibs that was incredibly hard on some players while not getting the most out of other players.

Talent wise, the Knicks were certainly not the second best. The have outperformed their take talent since Thibs started as the coach

I'm assuming you are using just how far they made it in the playoffs to say they were the 2nd best team in the east. If that same team loses to the Pacers in the first round are they the worst team in the east that made the playoffs? His #1 seed Bulls team lost to the #8 seed Sixers after Rose went down. That doesn't automatically make the Sixers a better team when looking at the whole season.

There were so many variables that went into the Knicks making it as far as they did in the postseason that I am not solely judging them on that. In the end the Knicks were eliminated by a lower seed every year they made the playoffs since his arrival and i'm still [Edit}not judging him just on that.

[kNicksGmen]

They were the 2nd team left in the east. I'm not sure they were the 2nd best team. They were just as close to losing in the first round as they were to losing in the first round if the team wasn't saved by Cam Payne in game 1 and the ref at the end of game 4 or whatever one it was against an inexperienced Pistons team.

I'm not comparing Thibs to whatever low bar has been set over the last 20 years or so in New York. I watched this same coach win 62 games in his first year as a head coach playing 10-11 man rotation that included everyone from an older rookie in Asik to old man Kurt Thomas with everyone outside of possibly Boozer and Rose giving maximum effort on the defensive end.

I watched him win 50 games the next year in a lockout shortened 66 game season with Rose missing a good chunk of the year in and out of the lineup for long stretches but for some reason I should be grateful to see him win 50 games in a full season with the amount of talent this roster had.

You said Thibs is intense. Chicago Bulls Thibs was intense. If Boozer was giving low effort Thibs would bench him in favor of Gibson but I watched Randle do whatever he wanted for years and stay on the court without a peep from Thibs. I watched Hart do whatever he wanted this year and stayed on the court. This was just a watered down version of Thibs that was incredibly hard on some players while not getting the most out of other players.

Talent wise, the Knicks were certainly not the second best. The have outperformed their take talent since Thibs started as the coach

I'm assuming you are using just how far they made it in the playoffs to say they were the 2nd best team in the east. If that same team loses to the Pacers in the first round are they the worst team in the east that made the playoffs? His #1 seed Bulls team lost to the #8 seed Sixers after Rose went down. That doesn't automatically make the Sixers a better team when looking at the whole season.

There were so many variables that went into the Knicks making it as far as they did in the postseason that I am not solely judging them on that. In the end the Knicks were eliminated by a lower seed every year they made the playoffs since his arrival and i'm still judging him just on that.

yea and knicks/pacers had a decent chance of happening in the 1st round. could have easily been a 4/5

[HopelessKnick]

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Never disliked him personally....alway thought he is a classy guy...