Joe Dumars vs Jrue Holiday

[AStark1991]

Two players that I've always found to be quite similar in terms of both playing style and personality. Defensive minded combo guards known for having reserved and stoic demeanors. Who do you think was the better overall player when they were both at their respective peaks?

[EmpireFalls]

Jrue has shut down some good players; he’s never shut down M.J.

Jrue has some good playoff performances; he’s never won Finals MVP averaging 28 a game.

Dumars is basically the perfect SG pre-3 point revolution. Smart, strong, fast, elite defense, perimeter shotmaking is impossible to take away, good instincts for getting to the rim, doesn’t demand the ball, super durable

Joe D is better. He kept Detroit’s offense from going stagnant in a way Jrue is incapable of doing.

[AStark1991]

Jrue has shut down some good players; he’s never shut down M.J.

Jrue has some good playoff performances; he’s never won Finals MVP averaging 28 a game.

Dumars is basically the perfect SG pre-3 point revolution. Smart, strong, fast, elite defense, perimeter shotmaking is impossible to take away, good instincts for getting to the rim, doesn’t demand the ball, super durable

Joe D is better. He kept Detroit’s offense from going stagnant in a way Jrue is incapable of doing.

Agreed on all accounts. I'm just interested to see where the forum stands on this topic.

[SilentA]

Dumars only by a hair for me but can be swayed either way. They had slightly different strengths defensively and Jrue would probably have an edge there with guarding bigs but I'll take Dumars decently efficient and versatile scoring as the tiebreaker (Jrue sorta makes up for it with a huge rebounding gap and can still score acceptably so it's not an easy choice either way).

Gonna just repost another reply from viewtopic.php?t=2321821

I'm not posting this as some sort of "I posted this before!" and it was a long time ago, just think it was a great summary from someone else

These two are my "hipster" picks as favorite players past and present. You hit the nail on the head summarizing their similarities. I always admired shorter (under 6'5) combo guards that can shoot, create for themselves, run the point and play great defense. They embody the portable player that can fit on any team...not to mention they're both great people off the court as well.

Let me preface by saying that they're both equally valuable for their respective eras. I started only watching the NBA as Dumars was hitting his prime but from what I can remember, Jrue is probably the better athlete while Joe was stronger and had better lateral movement. Jrue has a longer wingspan and was a more capable shot blocker. I mean look at this practice clip here:

Watch on YouTube

The guy he blocked is 6'9 for reference. He gets beat on the first step but still manages to block him. As such, Jrue is the slightly better man-to-man defender...again relative to this era's rules. Joe is probably the better team defender as he was mindful to funneling his man to his big men.

I would partly agree that neither would be comfortable being a number 1 option but they could if forced to and they certainly can score in spurts. But I think Joe has the edge here because he actually was put in situations where he was or had to be the leading scorer longer. Joe led the Detroit in PPG in 1993 with 23.5 on good efficiency, albeit when most of the Bad Boys were already dissolved. Jrue actually did lead the Sixers in 2013 at 17.7, also on good effiency. But then he had AD and Giannis as teammates later on. Coincidently they both got 27 PPG as their highest scoring output in the playoffs. Difference was Joe led the team in the Finals while Jrue was still in the first round alongside AD (33 PPG). Here are Joe and Jrue's highest scoring games, respectively:

Joe:
https://www.landofbasketball.com/nba_players_stats/top_pts/joe_dumars.htm

Jrue:
https://www.landofbasketball.com/nba_players_stats/top_pts/jrue_holiday.htm

As a result, Joe is the more consistent and explosive scorer, despite Jrue having the higher career high (51) vs Joe's 45. I personally also believe that Joe was also the more dynamic scorer as he had a softer touch at the rim and a solid floater. He was also better at catch-and-shoot.

For FIBA/Olympics, I'd also give the edge to Joe despite the small sample size. I think Joe was 4th in scoring on Dream Team 2 in 1994 with an impressive 51% 3P%:

https://archive.fiba.com/pages/eng/fa/player/p/pid/19034/sid/2913/tid/379/tid2//_/1994_World_Championship_for_Men/index.html

Jrue was solid given the depth of the team but didn't shoot lights out from 3:

https://www.fiba.basketball/olympics/men/2020/player/Jrue-Holiday

As you pointed out, Jrue is probably the better passer and has played the point moreso than Joe. Joe really only played point fulltime when he didn't have Isiah Thomas or Grant Hill. Defense is a wash depending on era. I'd take Joe in the hand-checking era and on FIBA with his physicality and strength...though Jrue is no slouch either as there's footage oh him guarding Giannis in practice...but I'd take Jrue in the modern NBA with his athleticism and length. Both have obviously had to guard all-time great players despite their size. Besides the obvious MJ and Reggie, Joe also did a decent job on Magic Johnson. Jrue has guarded the likes of Kevin Durant and Giannis.

But to answer your questions on overall:

career: Joe
peak: Joe
ahtleticsm: Jrue
scoring: Joe
defense: Joe with handchecking and FIBA, Jrue in modern NBA
passing: Jrue

[jojo4341]

Dumars only by a hair for me but can be swayed either way. They had slightly different strengths defensively and Jrue would probably have an edge there with guarding bigs but I'll take Dumars decently efficient and versatile scoring as the tiebreaker (Jrue sorta makes up for it with a huge rebounding gap and can still score acceptably so it's not an easy choice either way).

Gonna just repost another reply from viewtopic.php?t=2321821

I'm not posting this as some sort of "I posted this before!" and it was a long time ago, just think it was a great summary from someone else

Thanks for the callback! I was going to actually post a much shorter response but yes, for this OP, I'd go with Joe for both career and peak.

[One_and_Done]

I'll take Jrue.