My Dallas backcourt idea BOS/SAC/ATL

[Texas Chuck]

Atlanta trades: 27 CLE 2nd/29 CLE 2nd
Atlanta gets: Gafford (into exception)

Kings trade: Monk/26 CHA 2nd
Kings get: Washington/Marshall(into exception)

Celtics trade: Jrue/#32
Celtics get: Thompson/26 CHA 2nd/27 CLE 2nd/29 CLE 2nd

Mavs trade: Washington/Gafford/Thompson/Marshall
Mavs get: Jrue/Monk/#32

Hawks get a good PNR center to share the spot with OO, great fit for Trae. cost them two 2nds from a currently very good team
Kings stuff we've done a bunch. Monk for PJ and a good 2nd next year for Marshall. A lot of toughness introduced, they work to find a PG.
Celtics save a ton of money, move out one of their 2 picks this year for a good 2nd next year and a couple more down the road.
Mavs get their starting backcourt then Monk moves to 6th man when Kyrie is back. 32 allows them to backfill a roster spot for cheap. Will need to find a veteran center on the min now. Maybe two.

[Godaddycurse]

Think this is a bit of overkill and now your front court is really shallow.. I like either target but not both

[Texas Chuck]

Think this is a bit of overkill and now your front court is really shallow.. I like either target but not both

Yeah you might be right. I had Lively/AD/vet min center then AD/Martin/Flagg then Flagg/Martin but yeah thats 5 bodies for 3 spots and thus counting on Prosper to play or finding someone else cheap on the street. Though I feel like I could steal some Jrue up the lineup minutes as well.

I just hate the current backcourt. And don't think just either guy is enough. But maybe Brandon Williams/Christie are better hopes than Martin/Prosper?

[brackdan70]

Think this is a bit of overkill and now your front court is really shallow.. I like either target but not both

AD, Flagg and Lively is a shallow front court?

[ReggiesKnicks]

I love Gafford to Atlanta as a Trae lob-threat.

The Kings part makes sense, though I think they still need some creation, which they could get elsewhere.

I like the selling point for Boston to their fanbase. "We are exchanging an old champion for another old champion and getting a few 2nds". Personally, I like kicking #32 into a likely 2nd in the 30s next year in the CHA 2026 2nd as it potentially saves a million or more.

I proposed Holiday to Dallas a few months ago and you weren't very receptive, seems like you read the tea leaves

[Texas Chuck]

Think this is a bit of overkill and now your front court is really shallow.. I like either target but not both

AD, Flagg and Lively is a shallow front court?

2 of them are injured a lot, one is a young rookie(though supposed to be fairly ready?) and behind them right now(assuming the trade) is Martin/Powell/Prosper which is really bad. Now I think a playable center is readily done for the min. And maybe a forward as well? But he's not wrong that its thin.

[hugepatsfan]

I like the Jrue and Monk targets for Dallas. I think I'd try to keep Gafford for DAL though:

BOS gives: Jrue
BOS gets: Klay, Marshall, Hardy

Why? Not as much savings as TC's idea, but they can move Marshall/Hardy separately if they prefer. This deal saves them $1M on the face of it, but $5M when you factor in the roster spots it fills allowing them to waive the non guaranteed guys. Marshall should be easily movable into a TPE/MLE somewhere. Hardy is a bit of a wildcard, but it's not like BOS couldn't use more guard depth with Jrue leaving anyway.

DAL gives: PJ, Klay, Marshall, Martin, Hardy
DAL gets: Jrue, Monk

Why? Once Kyrie is back it's a pretty strong 3 guard rotation. Commit to a big lineup with AD at the 4 mostly by keeping Gafford to back up Lively. Flagg at the 3. Maybe they want to move him for a shooting SF to balance a bit and still sign center depth like TC proposes, but Gafford is just a better asset to retain compared to Martin/Hardy and I think the value they get from PJ to Monk and taking on Jrue's deal awards them that. Deal saves $4M so no hard cap issues but need to double check the filling out the roster math. Might dictate a Gafford trade being done to clear some more money, but again, they retain more value by having to deal him vs. a combo of Martin/Hardy.

SAC gives: Monk
SAC gets: PJ, Martin

Why? Same idea as TC basically but they take the extra year of Martin and thus don't owe the 2nd.

[Texas Chuck]

I proposed Holiday to Dallas a few months ago and you weren't very receptive, seems like you read the tea leaves

Pretty sure my thoughts have been I love Jrue, but he doesn't offer enough offensive juice for what Dallas needs pre-Kyrie. Hence me trying to also bring in Monk.

But if Dallas can add Jrue and someone else who creates offense(or Brandon Williams turns out to be something--I do not think Brandon Williams is something fwiw), I'm for it.

And yeah sometimes I can't see good ideas until smarter people point them out. My being wrong initially is softened a bit by not stubbornly staying wrong....

[Texas Chuck]

Spoiler:

I like the Jrue and Monk targets for Dallas. I think I'd try to keep Gafford for DAL though:

BOS gives: Jrue
BOS gets: Klay, Marshall, Hardy

Why? Not as much savings as TC's idea, but they can move Marshall/Hardy separately if they prefer. This deal saves them $1M on the face of it, but $5M when you factor in the roster spots it fills allowing them to waive the non guaranteed guys. Marshall should be easily movable into a TPE/MLE somewhere. Hardy is a bit of a wildcard, but it's not like BOS couldn't use more guard depth with Jrue leaving anyway.

DAL gives: PJ, Klay, Marshall, Martin, Hardy
DAL gets: Jrue, Monk

Why? Once Kyrie is back it's a pretty strong 3 guard rotation. Commit to a big lineup with AD at the 4 mostly by keeping Gafford to back up Lively. Flagg at the 3. Maybe they want to move him for a shooting SF to balance a bit and still sign center depth like TC proposes, but Gafford is just a better asset to retain compared to Martin/Hardy and I think the value they get from PJ to Monk and taking on Jrue's deal awards them that. Deal saves $4M so no hard cap issues but need to double check the filling out the roster math. Might dictate a Gafford trade being done to clear some more money, but again, they retain more value by having to deal him vs. a combo of Martin/Hardy.

SAC gives: Monk
SAC gets: PJ, Martin

Why? Same idea as TC basically but they take the extra year of Martin and thus don't owe the 2nd.

I like this more for Dallas. Seems worse for Boston and Sacramento though.

[brackdan70]

Seems like a decent trade all around.
I guess the one question I would have is about the 2nds. Would Dallas be wanting 32 vs the other 3 seconds? Or is this assigning a little value to Jrue vs Clay, which makes some sense.

[hugepatsfan]

Spoiler:

I like the Jrue and Monk targets for Dallas. I think I'd try to keep Gafford for DAL though:

BOS gives: Jrue
BOS gets: Klay, Marshall, Hardy

Why? Not as much savings as TC's idea, but they can move Marshall/Hardy separately if they prefer. This deal saves them $1M on the face of it, but $5M when you factor in the roster spots it fills allowing them to waive the non guaranteed guys. Marshall should be easily movable into a TPE/MLE somewhere. Hardy is a bit of a wildcard, but it's not like BOS couldn't use more guard depth with Jrue leaving anyway.

DAL gives: PJ, Klay, Marshall, Martin, Hardy
DAL gets: Jrue, Monk

Why? Once Kyrie is back it's a pretty strong 3 guard rotation. Commit to a big lineup with AD at the 4 mostly by keeping Gafford to back up Lively. Flagg at the 3. Maybe they want to move him for a shooting SF to balance a bit and still sign center depth like TC proposes, but Gafford is just a better asset to retain compared to Martin/Hardy and I think the value they get from PJ to Monk and taking on Jrue's deal awards them that. Deal saves $4M so no hard cap issues but need to double check the filling out the roster math. Might dictate a Gafford trade being done to clear some more money, but again, they retain more value by having to deal him vs. a combo of Martin/Hardy.

SAC gives: Monk
SAC gets: PJ, Martin

Why? Same idea as TC basically but they take the extra year of Martin and thus don't owe the 2nd.

I like this more for Dallas. Seems worse for Boston and Sacramento though.

Yeah but BOS is the team moving a player who seems to have a big salary and limited market and I think SAC is upgrading some with Monk to PJ and it's not like Martin is useless or anything. At the end of the day, I think DAL will have other options with the guys they move. Not sure BOS is going to have the easiest time moving Jrue in a deal that gives them as easily movable pieces than this and not sure SAC will get better roster fit trade than Monk for PJ, who fits awesome next to Sabonis, and even Martin is a good fit for a team that lacks forward sized players and has to use SGs at the 3 a lot.

[Texas Chuck]

Seems like a decent trade all around.
I guess the one question I would have is about the 2nds. Would Dallas be wanting 32 vs the other 3 seconds? Or is this assigning a little value to Jrue vs Clay, which makes some sense.

Both. I felt like Boston was due a bit of value and I thought Dallas would prefer the cheap prospect now. Can take that part out obviously if Boston prefers to keep their 2nd this year.

[brackdan70]

I like the Jrue and Monk targets for Dallas. I think I'd try to keep Gafford for DAL though:

BOS gives: Jrue
BOS gets: Klay, Marshall, Hardy

Why? Not as much savings as TC's idea, but they can move Marshall/Hardy separately if they prefer. This deal saves them $1M on the face of it, but $5M when you factor in the roster spots it fills allowing them to waive the non guaranteed guys. Marshall should be easily movable into a TPE/MLE somewhere. Hardy is a bit of a wildcard, but it's not like BOS couldn't use more guard depth with Jrue leaving anyway.

DAL gives: PJ, Klay, Marshall, Martin, Hardy
DAL gets: Jrue, Monk

Why? Once Kyrie is back it's a pretty strong 3 guard rotation. Commit to a big lineup with AD at the 4 mostly by keeping Gafford to back up Lively. Flagg at the 3. Maybe they want to move him for a shooting SF to balance a bit and still sign center depth like TC proposes, but Gafford is just a better asset to retain compared to Martin/Hardy and I think the value they get from PJ to Monk and taking on Jrue's deal awards them that. Deal saves $4M so no hard cap issues but need to double check the filling out the roster math. Might dictate a Gafford trade being done to clear some more money, but again, they retain more value by having to deal him vs. a combo of Martin/Hardy.

SAC gives: Monk
SAC gets: PJ, Martin

Why? Same idea as TC basically but they take the extra year of Martin and thus don't owe the 2nd.

From Boston POV Id rather keep Holiday. It’s basically a Salary wash for 2 years and a downgrade on the court.
I think the whole point of trading Holiday would be to get out of the worst tiers of the repeater tax this year and get close to or under the tax level next year. Otherwise just keep it together.

[Djh7475]

Don’t hate this deal for the Celtics. Klay should be relatively easy to move again at the deadline to get more salary savings to a team that desperately needs floor spacing and veteran leadership, and this deal gets us close to avoiding the 2nd apron even as it stands.

With other KP/Hauser moves and/or finding savings by moving Klay, it isn’t too difficult to get out of the tax altogether for the year. This deal keeps #28 for Boston that could be used to help move KP for as much salary relief as possible while providing the Celtics with extra 2nds if needed. This seems like the framework of a successful Jrue-related salary dump.

[hugepatsfan]

I like the Jrue and Monk targets for Dallas. I think I'd try to keep Gafford for DAL though:

BOS gives: Jrue
BOS gets: Klay, Marshall, Hardy

Why? Not as much savings as TC's idea, but they can move Marshall/Hardy separately if they prefer. This deal saves them $1M on the face of it, but $5M when you factor in the roster spots it fills allowing them to waive the non guaranteed guys. Marshall should be easily movable into a TPE/MLE somewhere. Hardy is a bit of a wildcard, but it's not like BOS couldn't use more guard depth with Jrue leaving anyway.

DAL gives: PJ, Klay, Marshall, Martin, Hardy
DAL gets: Jrue, Monk

Why? Once Kyrie is back it's a pretty strong 3 guard rotation. Commit to a big lineup with AD at the 4 mostly by keeping Gafford to back up Lively. Flagg at the 3. Maybe they want to move him for a shooting SF to balance a bit and still sign center depth like TC proposes, but Gafford is just a better asset to retain compared to Martin/Hardy and I think the value they get from PJ to Monk and taking on Jrue's deal awards them that. Deal saves $4M so no hard cap issues but need to double check the filling out the roster math. Might dictate a Gafford trade being done to clear some more money, but again, they retain more value by having to deal him vs. a combo of Martin/Hardy.

SAC gives: Monk
SAC gets: PJ, Martin

Why? Same idea as TC basically but they take the extra year of Martin and thus don't owe the 2nd.

From Boston POV Id rather keep Holiday. It’s basically a Salary wash for 2 years and a downgrade on the court.
I think the whole point of trading Holiday would be to get out of the worst tiers of the repeater tax this year and get close to or under the tax level next year. Otherwise just keep it together.

Marshall is easily moved into a TPE/MLE somewhere else. Hardy is dumpable for some 2nds at most too, IMO. I kept it simple and just sent them to BOS, but they don't need to keep those two.

Even Klay I think could be moved for some savings too. Something like:

BOS gives: Klay
BOS gets: Vandy

LAL gives: Vandy, Vincent or Kleber, 2nds
LAL gets: Klay

3rd team gives: nothing
3rd team gets: Vincent or Kleber, LAL 2nds

Celtics shed more current year salary by taking on a 3rd year. LAL replaces Knecht if/when he's dealt for a big.

[hugepatsfan]

I like the Jrue and Monk targets for Dallas. I think I'd try to keep Gafford for DAL though:

BOS gives: Jrue
BOS gets: Klay, Marshall, Hardy

Why? Not as much savings as TC's idea, but they can move Marshall/Hardy separately if they prefer. This deal saves them $1M on the face of it, but $5M when you factor in the roster spots it fills allowing them to waive the non guaranteed guys. Marshall should be easily movable into a TPE/MLE somewhere. Hardy is a bit of a wildcard, but it's not like BOS couldn't use more guard depth with Jrue leaving anyway.

DAL gives: PJ, Klay, Marshall, Martin, Hardy
DAL gets: Jrue, Monk

Why? Once Kyrie is back it's a pretty strong 3 guard rotation. Commit to a big lineup with AD at the 4 mostly by keeping Gafford to back up Lively. Flagg at the 3. Maybe they want to move him for a shooting SF to balance a bit and still sign center depth like TC proposes, but Gafford is just a better asset to retain compared to Martin/Hardy and I think the value they get from PJ to Monk and taking on Jrue's deal awards them that. Deal saves $4M so no hard cap issues but need to double check the filling out the roster math. Might dictate a Gafford trade being done to clear some more money, but again, they retain more value by having to deal him vs. a combo of Martin/Hardy.

SAC gives: Monk
SAC gets: PJ, Martin

Why? Same idea as TC basically but they take the extra year of Martin and thus don't owe the 2nd.

From Boston POV Id rather keep Holiday. It’s basically a Salary wash for 2 years and a downgrade on the court.
I think the whole point of trading Holiday would be to get out of the worst tiers of the repeater tax this year and get close to or under the tax level next year. Otherwise just keep it together.

Marshall is easily moved into a TPE/MLE somewhere else. Hardy is dumpable for some 2nds at most too, IMO. I kept it simple and just sent them to BOS, but they don't need to keep those two.

Even Klay I think could be moved for some savings too. Something like:

BOS gives: Klay
BOS gets: Vandy

LAL gives: Vandy, Vincent or Kleber, 2nds
LAL gets: Klay

3rd team gives: nothing
3rd team gets: Vincent or Kleber, LAL 2nds

Celtics shed more current year salary by taking on a 3rd year. LAL replaces Knecht if/when he's dealt for a big.

[cl2117]

I really like this deal all around for everyone value wise. As I went through it I wavered on whether it was too good/bad and honestly think most ended up bang on.

Hardest part for me in the deal is the Washington/Monk valuation. I've got PJ>Monk, so paying a 2nd makes sense to me but I'm also not high on Marshall because last year could have been fools gold with his shooting, so overall I think that works but I could see your mileage varying depending on your personal valuation for each of that trio (e.g. does SAC take Marshall for free or is that part of the value for either team?).

By that same token though because I've got PJ>Monk, if I'm Dallas I cut out Sacramento. I don't think it necessarily has to be an either/or option with Jrue/Monk, but I like the balance they'd end up with once Kyrie is back if they can keep a hold of PJ. Mavs have to ship out Williams or OMP, but I don't see that as a dealbreaker.

Atlanta I think gets a great deal. Late 2nds to take a look at a guy who could be a really good fit.

For my C's they save like $16m and I actually really like ReggiesKnicks point about how it could be sold to the fanbase about swapping one championship vet for another. Jrue is far more impactful in my opinion, but Klay could ultimately thrive in a system that spams the three ball (or at least that can be the narrative that supports why we're trading a core piece in what is really a cost cutting exercise). Turning that swap and #32 into 3 seconds to help potentially make some other cap focused moves makes a lot of sense. I wouldn't be surprised if Brad traded back from #28 into the #30's to take advantage of the cheaper salary slot as well.

[Darren]

Atlanta trades: 27 CLE 2nd/29 CLE 2nd
Atlanta gets: Gafford (into exception)

Kings trade: Monk/26 CHA 2nd
Kings get: Washington/Marshall(into exception)

Celtics trade: Jrue/#32
Celtics get: Thompson/26 CHA 2nd/27 CLE 2nd/29 CLE 2nd

Mavs trade: Washington/Gafford/Thompson/Marshall
Mavs get: Jrue/Monk/#32

Hawks get a good PNR center to share the spot with OO, great fit for Trae. cost them two 2nds from a currently very good team
Kings stuff we've done a bunch. Monk for PJ and a good 2nd next year for Marshall. A lot of toughness introduced, they work to find a PG.
Celtics save a ton of money, move out one of their 2 picks this year for a good 2nd next year and a couple more down the road.
Mavs get their starting backcourt then Monk moves to 6th man when Kyrie is back. 32 allows them to backfill a roster spot for cheap. Will need to find a veteran center on the min now. Maybe two.

This is a light offer for Gafford. LAL will offer more than 2 seconds.

[Darren]

I think Gafford to Boston is better idea. Horford expired. KP is on the way out.

Gafford, Klay, Martin, Powell, Hardy for aging Jrue on bad contract with Pritchard look fine.

[Larry_Russell]

Atlanta trades: 27 CLE 2nd/29 CLE 2nd
Atlanta gets: Gafford (into exception)

Kings trade: Monk/26 CHA 2nd
Kings get: Washington/Marshall(into exception)

Celtics trade: Jrue/#32
Celtics get: Thompson/26 CHA 2nd/27 CLE 2nd/29 CLE 2nd

Mavs trade: Washington/Gafford/Thompson/Marshall
Mavs get: Jrue/Monk/#32

Hawks get a good PNR center to share the spot with OO, great fit for Trae. cost them two 2nds from a currently very good team
Kings stuff we've done a bunch. Monk for PJ and a good 2nd next year for Marshall. A lot of toughness introduced, they work to find a PG.
Celtics save a ton of money, move out one of their 2 picks this year for a good 2nd next year and a couple more down the road.
Mavs get their starting backcourt then Monk moves to 6th man when Kyrie is back. 32 allows them to backfill a roster spot for cheap. Will need to find a veteran center on the min now. Maybe two.

Jrue to Dallas

Kristaps and Klay Thompson to Orlando (desparately need shooting)

Pope, Harris 2nd from Orlando, 2nd from Boston to Brooklyn

Gafford, Carter Jr, Naji Marshall and Anthony Black to Boston