Official 2024-2025 Magic Trade ideas thread continued

[eyriq]

Reducing Paolo and Franz’s playmaking kills two things at once: a key advantage over other wings and valuable developmental reps. The offense has a shooting problem, not a playmaking one, and tossing out a wing-hub build for some guard-centric preference is short-sighted. Unless you’re bringing in an all-star, the move makes the team worse. AB is the point guard of the future, pairing him with a true scoring threat will unlock the whole thing.

I'm not even sure if you're serious any more.

"key advantage" -- to having the worst offense in the NBA?

"developmental reps" -- for who? Paolo and Franz? The only guys who touch the ball on offense anyway?

"AB is the point guard of the future" -- really you're still doing this? The same AB who had ZERO assists in 5 playoff games?

You’re pretending the worst offense in the league is proof that playmaking from Paolo and Franz is the issue, when in reality it’s the shooting around them that makes the whole thing unworkable.

About AB, “Zero assists” in five playoff games from a 21-year-old role who wasn’t asked to initiate is the kind of stat you throw out when you’ve got no real argument.

[eyriq]

It’s amazing to me that there is a section of this fan base that regularly watches these games and claims that the entire issue with this team on offense is shooting.

These are people that think drafting McNeely or adding a 38 year old Klay Thompson will solve all of the issues with this offense.

The entire problem with this offense is on ball creation and ball movement on the perimeter. It doesn’t exist currently.

The offense is a complete slog because it relies on two total players to dribble into traffic for offense. Not only that, but those two guys have not yet developed tendencies to take shots from outside unless absolutely necessary as a reaction to how the game unfolds.

Shooting a basketball in 2025 isn’t a role as much as it’s a requirement. People here are dying on a hill because specific players aren’t good at one skill that the rest of the roster has to compensate. Yeah, that’s a terrible ideology to build a team around.

We are watching an nba finals currently where 95% of the guys on the court are able to shoot the basketball as well as do everything necessary positionally. This is easier for them because the entire floor is open.

I hear where you’re coming from, and I think we probably agree more than it seems. I’m not saying shooting is the only problem, but it is the foundational one. You can’t get to meaningful reads, spacing, or drive-and-kick sequences without credible perimeter threats. Paolo and Franz are imperfect, but they still create advantages on most possessions. The offense stalls not because they are being asked to do too much, but because too few others can punish defenses for collapsing. Improve the shooting and suddenly the reads are cleaner, the movement has purpose, and the system functions as intended.

[eyriq]

What, seemed like a good time to push some AB propaganda

AB has always made the playoffs. Kobe has 5 championships. How many will AB get?

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We’re just getting started. AB already defends like a vet, sees the floor like a real lead guard, and plays with poise most rookies can’t fake. Add a real scoring guard next to him and we’ll be running the AB propaganda machine at full throttle by midseason. Count the banners.

[Skybox]

About AB, “Zero assists” in five playoff games from a 21-year-old role who wasn’t asked to initiate is the kind of stat you throw out when you’ve got no real argument.

Maybe they should "ask" the PGOTF to try a little PG play

not yet, not yet...did anybody have to ask Paolo and Franz to score?

[tiderulz]

Garland's surgery makes me even more interested...listening to Windhorst pod this morning and it was mentioned that this injury has been dogging him for months, he consulted multiple docs and tried to tough it out, but wasn't himself.

His salary is a big issue, but could be managed. I won't give Suggs for him and CLE might not capitulate, but even a healthy Mitchell/Garland backcourt is as misguided as KCP/Suggs, just in the other direction. A healthy Garland is an offensive monster.

KCP (21.6m), Goga (8.3m), AB (8m), ORL 26 frp swap, unprotected), ORL 28 frp (Top 3)

Garland (39.5m)

*I hate giving up AB, but we have to be serious about returning value and he'll be due a good bump next summer. We will have to make tough decisions about fringe guys as we elevate our starting lineup to be among the best in the NBA and young. We retain both frps which we use for mature depth players on low deals...Moe will have to be declined and, hopefully, re-upped on a friendlier deal (or, he'll be an unfortunate casualty of grabbing an All-Star PG). Sending Goga allows CLE to shop Allen for a solid haul at the same time (could also make it WCJ - who is actually a great fit next to Mobley, imo- as well as backing him up at C).

#16 Nique Clifford...imo, immediately replaces AB's contribution and more
#25 Maxime Raynaud

take swings with srps...Powell, Avdalis, Nembhard, Proctor...

Cleveland was just the #1 seed in the east. They arent trading their starting PG that avg'd 20/7 for KCP a late pick and a pick swap. If they are trading Garland, they will want someone that is contributing now, and not KCP who plays the same position as Mitchell

Wrong...Mitchell and Garland have massive overlap, which is why this has come up every offseason...almost as marginalizing a match as Suggs/KCP who are also a foolish pairing with redundancies and gaps in skillsets. CLE could certainly flip those picks for a win-now player and KCP is still a very formidable SG who doesn't (won't) have the ball in his hands. Suggs, when healthy, overshadows KCP. Mitchell's excellence has consistently compromised Garland's game as well...and Garland is WAY too good and expensive to be hidden like that. This is Dame/CJ all over again...redundant strengths, shared weaknesses.

well, its a late pick and a pick swap, for a playoff team. That isnt going to get you a good player. Garland in a direct trade is going to get you a better one. and I disagree on the "massive overlap". Mitchell has good assist numbers, but he still creates for himself. and I dont remember this coming up "every offseason". and how exactly is Garland being hidden? he was their 2nd leading scorer

[Skybox]

Cleveland was just the #1 seed in the east. They arent trading their starting PG that avg'd 20/7 for KCP a late pick and a pick swap. If they are trading Garland, they will want someone that is contributing now, and not KCP who plays the same position as Mitchell

Wrong...Mitchell and Garland have massive overlap, which is why this has come up every offseason...almost as marginalizing a match as Suggs/KCP who are also a foolish pairing with redundancies and gaps in skillsets. CLE could certainly flip those picks for a win-now player and KCP is still a very formidable SG who doesn't (won't) have the ball in his hands. Suggs, when healthy, overshadows KCP. Mitchell's excellence has consistently compromised Garland's game as well...and Garland is WAY too good and expensive to be hidden like that. This is Dame/CJ all over again...redundant strengths, shared weaknesses.

well, its a late pick and a pick swap, for a playoff team. That isnt going to get you a good player. Garland in a direct trade is going to get you a better one. and I disagree on the "massive overlap". Mitchell has good assist numbers, but he still creates for himself. and I dont remember this coming up "every offseason". and how exactly is Garland being hidden? he was their 2nd leading scorer

Aren't we generally considering the ORL 26 frp (with PHX swap) a lottery-pick value? (maybe I'm wrong-it's pretty complex)

I still think KCP is a valuable playoff performer in the Caruso mold, we just have a better one in Suggs with more offensive upside. Suggs/KCP seems like exactly what they were missing in the playoffs. No question Garland's the best player in the mix, but fit and $$$ are the driving forces.

[eyriq]

Read on Twitter

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[eyriq]

The ever wise PRR AGREES

Read on Twitter

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[RichCollab]

Reducing Paolo and Franz’s playmaking kills two things at once: a key advantage over other wings and valuable developmental reps. The offense has a shooting problem, not a playmaking one, and tossing out a wing-hub build for some guard-centric preference is short-sighted. Unless you’re bringing in an all-star, the move makes the team worse. AB is the point guard of the future, pairing him with a true scoring threat will unlock the whole thing.

I'm not even sure if you're serious any more.

"key advantage" -- to having the worst offense in the NBA?

"developmental reps" -- for who? Paolo and Franz? The only guys who touch the ball on offense anyway?

"AB is the point guard of the future" -- really you're still doing this? The same AB who had ZERO assists in 5 playoff games?

You’re pretending the worst offense in the league is proof that playmaking from Paolo and Franz is the issue, when in reality it’s the shooting around them that makes the whole thing unworkable.

About AB, “Zero assists” in five playoff games from a 21-year-old role who wasn’t asked to initiate is the kind of stat you throw out when you’ve got no real argument.

AB is extremely coachable. They tell him what to do. And it does it.

[89Magicfan]

The ever wise PRR AGREES

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One problem doesn’t negate others.

[JF5]

Reducing Paolo and Franz’s playmaking kills two things at once: a key advantage over other wings and valuable developmental reps. The offense has a shooting problem, not a playmaking one, and tossing out a wing-hub build for some guard-centric preference is short-sighted. Unless you’re bringing in an all-star, the move makes the team worse. AB is the point guard of the future, pairing him with a true scoring threat will unlock the whole thing.

I agree... I think Paolo and Franz will still have the ball a ton. But having a PG will make the game easier for them and diversifies the offense is the plan. Watching that Celtics series just showed me this team needs more to unlock an elite offense.

[MartinsIzAfraud]

The ever wise PRR AGREES

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One problem doesn’t negate others.

PRR also mentioned multiple times in that the Magic are looking for a LEAD GUARD who can also initiate offense and playmake. We’ve all been saying this for a while.

[eyriq]

The ever wise PRR AGREES

Read on Twitter

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One problem doesn’t negate others.

PRR also mentioned multiple times in that the Magic are looking for a LEAD GUARD who can also initiate offense and playmake. We’ve all been saying this for a while.

AB is the point guard of the future

[RichCollab]

One problem doesn’t negate others.

PRR also mentioned multiple times in that the Magic are looking for a LEAD GUARD who can also initiate offense and playmake. We’ve all been saying this for a while.

AB is the point guard of the future

For which team?

[Skybox]

PRR also mentioned multiple times in that the Magic are looking for a LEAD GUARD who can also initiate offense and playmake. We’ve all been saying this for a while.

AB is the point guard of the future

For which team?

Taipei Dragons

[Skybox]

I'm not even sure if you're serious any more.

"key advantage" -- to having the worst offense in the NBA?

"developmental reps" -- for who? Paolo and Franz? The only guys who touch the ball on offense anyway?

"AB is the point guard of the future" -- really you're still doing this? The same AB who had ZERO assists in 5 playoff games?

You’re pretending the worst offense in the league is proof that playmaking from Paolo and Franz is the issue, when in reality it’s the shooting around them that makes the whole thing unworkable.

About AB, “Zero assists” in five playoff games from a 21-year-old role who wasn’t asked to initiate is the kind of stat you throw out when you’ve got no real argument.

AB is extremely coachable. They tell him what to do. And it does it.

They really should stop telling him to do nothing

[Skybox]

Read on Twitter

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He's so intriguing because...

1) His skillset is RIGHT on...on paper, he may be the most perfect fit of all of the "targets"
2) He might be gettable without any serious draft equity (may be way off on this, but...). I'd love to still have all of our picks to use or make another significant move...perhaps, even unload guaranteed money that we really can't afford to keep (like KCP, Goga or even WCJ, Isaac if desired)

We all know Poole has some significant (knucklehead) downside risk, but his upside might even be higher than Simons, Sexton, Coby, etc. This is Agent Zero/Hibachi/Gilbert Arenas 2.0

[eyriq]

The off-season plan has leaked
1. Trade JI+Cole+16 for Simons
2. Draft Raynaud @25
3. Cut Moritz, Harris, CoJo
4. Sign NAW, Moritz, and CoJo

[VFX]

I will say that the only really positive thing about Poole over a lot of other options is that I DO NOT think he is going to cost a ton of assets.

I actually think Orlando can GET assets from taking him on.

His contract sucks and its not like there are a million teams needing his services.

I would trade:

KCP
Cole Anthony
Jonathan Isaac
2025 #25 pick

FOR

Jordan Poole
Corey Kispert
2025 #18 pick

Poole/AB
Suggs/Coward (#16)
Franz/Kispert
Paolo/Fleming (#18)
Carter/Moe/Goga

Draft Cedric Coward and Rasheer Fleming.

[basketballRob]

Reducing Paolo and Franz’s playmaking kills two things at once: a key advantage over other wings and valuable developmental reps. The offense has a shooting problem, not a playmaking one, and tossing out a wing-hub build for some guard-centric preference is short-sighted. Unless you’re bringing in an all-star, the move makes the team worse. AB is the point guard of the future, pairing him with a true scoring threat will unlock the whole thing.

I'm not even sure if you're serious any more.

"key advantage" -- to having the worst offense in the NBA?

"developmental reps" -- for who? Paolo and Franz? The only guys who touch the ball on offense anyway?

"AB is the point guard of the future" -- really you're still doing this? The same AB who had ZERO assists in 5 playoff games?

That's the role he played.

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