Sam Vecenie: Raptors Off-Season Preview (Video)

[JB7]

Especially since we've seen that play out multiple times in just the last couple years. He's had a better performance on our team than he did with the Knicks, but not enough to be a worthwhile piece for us, but we could sell another team on that potential. Wasn't that the whole point of us accumulating guys like RJ, to flip them for better value?

I think that's the next shoe to drop. They tried to include him with BI. I expect they will keep trying and he will be traded hopefully this off-season or at the very least by the deadline. See what happens on draft night

That's my hope, but it really says something that the Pels wanted nothing to do with him, so my hopes aren't high.

The Pelicans had TM3's new contract starting in 2025-26, and needed to dump a contract. They were not able to move Zion or CJ, so they moved BI. Pelicans are not going into the tax.

[Scase]

Yes, but I could also see other units play significant minutes like Yak, Barnes, Dick, Agbaji, IQ, and the other could be Mogbo, BI, RJ, Walter, Shead. And Battle could sub for Dick or Walter in either of those other two lineups.

The starting is just to keep those 4 happy. It is the rotations after the start, and how quickly Darko goes to them that will matter.

Starting matters, if you get out to a slow start and are in a deficit after the first like 8min of the game, then who cares about keeping people happy. Being in a hole is more detrimental than someones feelings being hurt.

Then they adjust quicker. Don't leave the starting lineup in for so long. I just don't see them starting Agbaji over RJ, especially when Agbaji is going into a contract year. Don't need to give his agent more reason to ask for more money.

Contract year is a fair argument, not sure how much leverage it could give them based on the market in general, I think what Vecenie said about his value is pretty on point, and starting wont move that needle too much.

He's got 2 years left. Would be nice to move on from someone rather than waiting last minute, especially when that someone is not in your future plans.

Especially since we've seen that play out multiple times in just the last couple years. He's had a better performance on our team than he did with the Knicks, but not enough to be a worthwhile piece for us, but we could sell another team on that potential. Wasn't that the whole point of us accumulating guys like RJ, to flip them for better value?

Give him this year. The play of the team needs to pick up, for RJs trade value to increase. They have been trying to outright tank the last two seasons, so that never helps a players value.

Problem with this is then he's an expiring, which is just the FVV/Siakam/OG issue all over again, the point of flipping a player is for the receiving team to get them on a + value contract. Rj on an expiring with a new fatter contract on the horizon vs 2 years of a reasonable one, is just a massive disparity in potential value.

Especially since we've seen that play out multiple times in just the last couple years. He's had a better performance on our team than he did with the Knicks, but not enough to be a worthwhile piece for us, but we could sell another team on that potential. Wasn't that the whole point of us accumulating guys like RJ, to flip them for better value?

I think that's the next shoe to drop. They tried to include him with BI. I expect they will keep trying and he will be traded hopefully this off-season or at the very least by the deadline. See what happens on draft night

RJ being included in the BI deal never really made a lot of sense, as they would be losing offense. They gave up nothing but the Indy pick for BI. Why include an actual player asset?

Also, the reason that deal worked for the Pelicans is they could not afford BI in the first place (reason he was on the market), and had to move him for expiring contracts and picks.

I think the idea was to flip RJ sooner rather than later, and then use KO/BB for another trade. Most people not lost in the sauce, can probably look at RJ objectively as a short term asset. I don't think he's really in the long term plans of the team.

I think that's the next shoe to drop. They tried to include him with BI. I expect they will keep trying and he will be traded hopefully this off-season or at the very least by the deadline. See what happens on draft night

That's my hope, but it really says something that the Pels wanted nothing to do with him, so my hopes aren't high.

The Pelicans had TM3's new contract starting in 2025-26, and needed to dump a contract. They were not able to move Zion or CJ, so they moved BI. Pelicans are not going into the tax.

The Pels offered BI the same extension we did, so I don't think that's the case.

[JB7]

Starting matters, if you get out to a slow start and are in a deficit after the first like 8min of the game, then who cares about keeping people happy. Being in a hole is more detrimental than someones feelings being hurt.

Then they adjust quicker. Don't leave the starting lineup in for so long. I just don't see them starting Agbaji over RJ, especially when Agbaji is going into a contract year. Don't need to give his agent more reason to ask for more money.

Contract year is a fair argument, not sure how much leverage it could give them based on the market in general, I think what Vecenie said about his value is pretty on point, and starting wont move that needle too much.

Especially since we've seen that play out multiple times in just the last couple years. He's had a better performance on our team than he did with the Knicks, but not enough to be a worthwhile piece for us, but we could sell another team on that potential. Wasn't that the whole point of us accumulating guys like RJ, to flip them for better value?

Give him this year. The play of the team needs to pick up, for RJs trade value to increase. They have been trying to outright tank the last two seasons, so that never helps a players value.

Problem with this is then he's an expiring, which is just the FVV/Siakam/OG issue all over again, the point of flipping a player is for the receiving team to get them on a + value contract. Rj on an expiring with a new fatter contract on the horizon vs 2 years of a reasonable one, is just a massive disparity in potential value.

I think that's the next shoe to drop. They tried to include him with BI. I expect they will keep trying and he will be traded hopefully this off-season or at the very least by the deadline. See what happens on draft night

RJ being included in the BI deal never really made a lot of sense, as they would be losing offense. They gave up nothing but the Indy pick for BI. Why include an actual player asset?

Also, the reason that deal worked for the Pelicans is they could not afford BI in the first place (reason he was on the market), and had to move him for expiring contracts and picks.

I think the idea was to flip RJ sooner rather than later, and then use KO/BB for another trade. Most people not lost in the sauce, can probably look at RJ objectively as a short term asset. I don't think he's really in the long term plans of the team.

That's my hope, but it really says something that the Pels wanted nothing to do with him, so my hopes aren't high.

The Pelicans had TM3's new contract starting in 2025-26, and needed to dump a contract. They were not able to move Zion or CJ, so they moved BI. Pelicans are not going into the tax.

The Pels offered BI the same extension we did, so I don't think that's the case.

I think starting vs coming off the bench would make some difference in Agbaji's contract expectations.

RJs contract is high enough that he is probably not being signed in FA. A team that is trading for him, probably wants to extend him, unless he is just an expiring contract they want. And RJ is much younger than OG/FVV/Pascal, so they aren't at that point yet.

I think the Pelicans offered same average annual $40M, they just wanted it on a longer term, and BI had higher expectations (max). Since they couldn't come to terms on the deal, and they were not giving him a max deal, his contract became the one to move for expiring's. I would imagine if any team was willing to offer something better for Zion, he could have easily been the contract out the door, rather than BI. Also hurt BI (relative to Zion), that they had two quality wings, that are more desirable because they are on reasonable contracts are are 3&D wings.

[Scase]

Then they adjust quicker. Don't leave the starting lineup in for so long. I just don't see them starting Agbaji over RJ, especially when Agbaji is going into a contract year. Don't need to give his agent more reason to ask for more money.

Contract year is a fair argument, not sure how much leverage it could give them based on the market in general, I think what Vecenie said about his value is pretty on point, and starting wont move that needle too much.

Give him this year. The play of the team needs to pick up, for RJs trade value to increase. They have been trying to outright tank the last two seasons, so that never helps a players value.

Problem with this is then he's an expiring, which is just the FVV/Siakam/OG issue all over again, the point of flipping a player is for the receiving team to get them on a + value contract. Rj on an expiring with a new fatter contract on the horizon vs 2 years of a reasonable one, is just a massive disparity in potential value.

RJ being included in the BI deal never really made a lot of sense, as they would be losing offense. They gave up nothing but the Indy pick for BI. Why include an actual player asset?

Also, the reason that deal worked for the Pelicans is they could not afford BI in the first place (reason he was on the market), and had to move him for expiring contracts and picks.

I think the idea was to flip RJ sooner rather than later, and then use KO/BB for another trade. Most people not lost in the sauce, can probably look at RJ objectively as a short term asset. I don't think he's really in the long term plans of the team.

The Pelicans had TM3's new contract starting in 2025-26, and needed to dump a contract. They were not able to move Zion or CJ, so they moved BI. Pelicans are not going into the tax.

The Pels offered BI the same extension we did, so I don't think that's the case.

I think starting vs coming off the bench would make some difference in Agbaji's contract expectations.

RJs contract is high enough that he is probably not being signed in FA. A team that is trading for him, probably wants to extend him, unless he is just an expiring contract they want. And RJ is much younger than OG/FVV/Pascal, so they aren't at that point yet.

I think the Pelicans offered same average annual $40M, they just wanted it on a longer term, and BI had higher expectations (max). Since they couldn't come to terms on the deal, and they were not giving him a max deal, his contract became the one to move for expiring's. I would imagine if any team was willing to offer something better for Zion, he could have easily been the contract out the door, rather than BI. Also hurt BI (relative to Zion), that they had two quality wings, that are more desirable because they are on reasonable contracts are are 3&D wings.

The Ochai stuff is all kinda heresay for us since we have no clue, but you could be right. As for RJ, it's a simple case of 2 years on a contract > expiring. They get to try him out and see if he's worth extending instead of doing the absurd thing we did with BI/IQ.

BI thing is a double edged sword though, a team that's had him for years not willing to max him is a sign, even more so when that player is expecting a max and has been insanely injury prone for the better part of a decade. If they were able to move Zion, BI is still on the way out IMO.

[Indeed]

You are too hung up on 3point shooting. Poeltl creates space for others, by screening, by passing, by rolling to the basket and on rare occasion he drives himself to the basket. Problem is only, as you said, when both your bigs cant shoot. And even here there are exceptions.

Between BI, Barnes and IQ there is enough ballhandling and scoring available. And poeltl is automatic around the rim, he will give you your 10 points a night at least. If the others chip in between 20 and 25, you already are at minimum 70 points with just four starters. The rest should come from the bench. Defense is much more important to adress than offense.

Those ppg does not include efficiency, it is for casual.
Defense is important, but neither we have enough on both end. It wasn't even fun to watch last year without Barrett for a reason, we can't get good looking shot and our efficiency was pretty bad. I am not saying we need Barrett, but my point is, our team doesn't have the offense. And our defense is bad that we already have so called two good defenders, so if those two defenders can't make up for it, they should go.

Thats where i disagree, we have actually both. None of them are elite, but they arent bad either. When it comes to efficency, our biggest problem is that we miss too many open shots. What do i need Gradey, when he misses them? Those shots should be automatic, not just for him. And defense as i said, trade RJ for a defensive minded guy.

If we have both, why do we need to trade Barrett for a defender?
And Barnes missed a tons of open shots as well, particularly, at the break (you can easily read the Barnes thread and figured that out, his offense is ... bottom 20th in the league, even that is tanking, he is bottom 40th in the league).

The problem is beyond Barrett. If you don't want to pay Barrett, you are unlikely wanting to pay Barnes.

[Shakril]

Those ppg does not include efficiency, it is for casual.
Defense is important, but neither we have enough on both end. It wasn't even fun to watch last year without Barrett for a reason, we can't get good looking shot and our efficiency was pretty bad. I am not saying we need Barrett, but my point is, our team doesn't have the offense. And our defense is bad that we already have so called two good defenders, so if those two defenders can't make up for it, they should go.

Thats where i disagree, we have actually both. None of them are elite, but they arent bad either. When it comes to efficency, our biggest problem is that we miss too many open shots. What do i need Gradey, when he misses them? Those shots should be automatic, not just for him. And defense as i said, trade RJ for a defensive minded guy.

If we have both, why do we need to trade Barrett for a defender?
And Barnes missed a tons of open shots as well, particularly, at the break (you can easily read the Barnes thread and figured that out, his offense is ... bottom 20th in the league, even that is tanking, he is bottom 40th in the league).

The problem is beyond Barrett. If you don't want to pay Barrett, you are unlikely wanting to pay Barnes.

Your disingenious right now. Only cause i say we are good for now on both ends, doesnt mean we dont need to improve. But it has to be done in a smart way. I simply disagree with your view.

[Indeed]

Thats where i disagree, we have actually both. None of them are elite, but they arent bad either. When it comes to efficency, our biggest problem is that we miss too many open shots. What do i need Gradey, when he misses them? Those shots should be automatic, not just for him. And defense as i said, trade RJ for a defensive minded guy.

If we have both, why do we need to trade Barrett for a defender?
And Barnes missed a tons of open shots as well, particularly, at the break (you can easily read the Barnes thread and figured that out, his offense is ... bottom 20th in the league, even that is tanking, he is bottom 40th in the league).

The problem is beyond Barrett. If you don't want to pay Barrett, you are unlikely wanting to pay Barnes.

Your disingenious right now. Only cause i say we are good for now on both ends, doesnt mean we dont need to improve. But it has to be done in a smart way. I simply disagree with your view.

Barrett was our leading scorer last year and our major rim pressure, your replacement got to be elite on the defensive end to make that up, otherwise, I do not see how we are an average or better offensive team without rim pressure. I don't see Quickley and Ingram who mainly take mid range would provide the rim pressure that we need.

Again, the problem is Barnes, anything you build, your other players need to do a much better job.