2025 NBA Draft (2)

[Negrodamus]

VJ is basically all theoretical. That’s the intrigue.

No thanks.

To be fair, they're all theoretical.

Fair but in that case isn't fit better with an established team? What are your thoughts on Tre?

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The same thing that is being said about VJ can be done about Bailey and Tre, possibly even to a worse extent. Both of them are not guys who get to the rim which really filters out a lot of guys who I'm about to talk about.

In Ace's case, there's TJ Warren who was a huge 2 way SF but had no distributing skills. Cam Thomas is obviously a different position, but another gunner who has been only playable on a miserable Nets team; cannot figure out how to do other things on offense than score. If we need a larger guy in that mold, Brice Sensabaugh.

Tre is somewhat harder since he has an absence of defense. I remember Herro at Kentucky and even he wasn't the traffic cone Tre was. So how can coaches play Tre in the postseason if he's going to be hunted constantly? Is his shot making good enough to counter it? I've watched A LOT of his games this year by nature of him being in the SEC and, no, the shots were insanely forced. And he often struggled to separate from his man which required insane step back threes. I said earlier in the process that he has Buddy Hield vibes and I still feel that way. Maybe a little better distributor and a little less athletic than Buddy, but that's the type of player I'm expecting.

And what makes VJ theoretical that doesn't also make Ace theoretical? In my experience following the draft, usually a 75% FT suggests solid shooting at the next level. Ace has a 68% FT while VJ is at 78%. Ace shot 34.6% from 3 and VJ shot 34.0% (on more 3FG shots per game than Ace no less). So the argument of him fighting for shots over Harper and him being on a dreadful team makes him all the more theoretical, right?

[Iverson Armband]

VJ is basically all theoretical. That’s the intrigue.

No thanks.

What does that make Tre’s defense potential? Fan fiction?

Who cares with that kind of shooting ability. Just like nobody should have cared about Steph Curry’s defense coming out of Davidson.

You just hope they get it together at the next level. Countless examples of that. Now guards that can’t dribble? Not too many instances of them becoming stars.

[Negrodamus]

VJ is basically all theoretical. That’s the intrigue.

No thanks.

To be fair, they're all theoretical.

Yes and no.

Tre - you know he’s going to be at minimum a deadeye nuclear shooter. Special off the dribble shooter. You can take that to the bank and cash it.

Ace - at minimum he’s going to be 6’9 rangey wing who can knock down C&S 3s and play adequate defense on and off ball.

VJ - who knows? Average at C&S 3’s. Not good off the dribble. Not special going to the rim. Not freakishly long. I guess the one thing you a bank on is he’ll defend on ball, but not great off. He’s just “cool” across the board.

VJ: 36.3 percent on catch-and-shoot 3-pointers
Ace: 38.7 percent on catch-and-shoot 3-point attempts

Can we at least be fair that they are about the same as theoretical shooters please.

[Mik317]

Steph also has elite handle and off ball stamina and has been surrounded by elite defenders his whole career.

[Jailblazers7]

VJ is basically all theoretical. That’s the intrigue.

No thanks.

What does that make Tre’s defense potential? Fan fiction?

Who cares with that kind of shooting ability. Just like nobody should have cared about Steph Curry’s defense coming out of Davidson.

You just hope they get it together at the next level. Countless examples of that. Now guards that can’t dribble? Not too many instances of them becoming stars.

Draft a traffic cone and hope he turns into Steph Curry is not a very compelling sales pitch.

[Mik317]

Vj's handle needs work but its not Thad Young level bad either....and its better than Bailey's lol

[Arsenal]

To be fair, they're all theoretical.

Yes and no.

Tre - you know he’s going to be at minimum a deadeye nuclear shooter. Special off the dribble shooter. You can take that to the bank and cash it.

Ace - at minimum he’s going to be 6’9 rangey wing who can knock down C&S 3s and play adequate defense on and off ball.

VJ - who knows? Average at C&S 3’s. Not good off the dribble. Not special going to the rim. Not freakishly long. I guess the one thing you a bank on is he’ll defend on ball, but not great off. He’s just “cool” across the board.

VJ: 36.3 percent on catch-and-shoot 3-pointers
Ace: 38.7 percent on catch-and-shoot 3-point attempts

Can we at least be fair that they are about the same as theoretical shooters please.

Ok, in that case I'll take the big wing with plus positional length over the one-year older average-sized shooting guard.

[Iverson Armband]

What does that make Tre’s defense potential? Fan fiction?

Who cares with that kind of shooting ability. Just like nobody should have cared about Steph Curry’s defense coming out of Davidson.

You just hope they get it together at the next level. Countless examples of that. Now guards that can’t dribble? Not too many instances of them becoming stars.

Draft a traffic cone and hope he turns into Steph Curry is not a very compelling sales pitch.

If that’s what you got out of that, that’s on you lol

[Arsenal]

Vj's handle needs work but its not Thad Young level bad either....and its better than Bailey's lol

VJ is a 6'4" guard without the length of similar height stars. His handle needs to be exceptional, not "better than Thad Young."

Lead guards need a much better handle than big wings.

[Mik317]

its hilarious that some prospects get the benefit of the doubt and the others do not (this goes both ways and I am not immune to it). You can't be mad when people call Ace ONLY 6'7 and then do the same to others heights. VJ has a ways to go as a self creator but again so does the guy trying to be the next PG or KD...if not more due to the lack of first step. You expect one to become an elite shooter when the stats don't fully back that up and does so more for the other guy. IMO both guys and the other 2 all probably maxes out as a 3rd best player on a good team status if everything goes well. As of right now, I don't think there is much of a gap between all of them beyond some traits things but you can't expect your guy to just overcome all of his flaws and others to not have that same grace and do so by using incorrect heights and being worried over 1 whole year of age....if that. Its weaksauce imo.

[eyeatoma]

To be fair, they're all theoretical.

Fair but in that case isn't fit better with an established team? What are your thoughts on Tre?

Sent from my SM-S938B using Tapatalk

The same thing that is being said about VJ can be done about Bailey and Tre, possibly even to a worse extent. Both of them are not guys who get to the rim which really filters out a lot of guys who I'm about to talk about.

In Ace's case, there's TJ Warren who was a huge 2 way SF but had no distributing skills. Cam Thomas is obviously a different position, but another gunner who has been only playable on a miserable Nets team; cannot figure out how to do other things on offense than score. If we need a larger guy in that mold, Brice Sensabaugh.

Tre is somewhat harder since he has an absence of defense. I remember Herro at Kentucky and even he wasn't the traffic cone Tre was. So how can coaches play Tre in the postseason if he's going to be hunted constantly? Is his shot making good enough to counter it? I've watched A LOT of his games this year by nature of him being in the SEC and, no, the shots were insanely forced. And he often struggled to separate from his man which required insane step back threes. I said earlier in the process that he has Buddy Hield vibes and I still feel that way. Maybe a little better distributor and a little less athletic than Buddy, but that's the type of player I'm expecting.

And what makes VJ theoretical that doesn't also make Ace theoretical? In my experience following the draft, usually a 75% FT suggests solid shooting at the next level. Ace has a 68% FT while VJ is at 78%. Ace shot 34.6% from 3 and VJ shot 34.0% (on more 3FG shots per game than Ace no less). So the argument of him fighting for shots over Harper and him being on a dreadful team makes him all the more theoretical, right?

All fair points, I guess I'd rather have the player with a decent 3 and D potential, over Gary Harris vibes. Also makes team building easier. I've said all along I'm okay with all three and can be convinced, just think it would be a much cleaner fit, with probably similar potential, because as much as VJ has a great work ethic, he's a year older and shorter, and everything I hear about Ace and Tre is that they're both gym rats. Prefer the players who have pluggable skills, instead of just defense being the calling card.

[Negrodamus]

Gary Harris was/is 6'2.5 without shoes. VJ is 6'4 without shoes.

[Arsenal]

Gary Harris was/is 6'2.5 without shoes. VJ is 6'4 without shoes.

Your boy Sam Vecenie made the comp, not me. And it's a good one too. Similar length and same age coming out. Harris arguably had better stats.

VJ could also be a nice player like Harris if he gets spoonfed open 3's by a guy like Nikola Jokic.

[Negrodamus]

Yes and no.

Tre - you know he’s going to be at minimum a deadeye nuclear shooter. Special off the dribble shooter. You can take that to the bank and cash it.

Ace - at minimum he’s going to be 6’9 rangey wing who can knock down C&S 3s and play adequate defense on and off ball.

VJ - who knows? Average at C&S 3’s. Not good off the dribble. Not special going to the rim. Not freakishly long. I guess the one thing you a bank on is he’ll defend on ball, but not great off. He’s just “cool” across the board.

VJ: 36.3 percent on catch-and-shoot 3-pointers
Ace: 38.7 percent on catch-and-shoot 3-point attempts

Can we at least be fair that they are about the same as theoretical shooters please.

Ok, in that case I'll take the big wing with plus positional length over the one-year older average-sized shooting guard.

Congrats, you drafted Patrick Williams over Anthony Edwards. Glad we're having a totally not dishonest conversation right now.

[Negrodamus]

Gary Harris was/is 6'2.5 without shoes. VJ is 6'4 without shoes.

Your boy Sam Vecenie made the comp, not me. And it's a good one too. Similar length and same age coming out. Harris arguably had better stats.

VJ could also be a nice player like Harris if he gets spoonfed open 3's by a guy like Nikola Jokic.

I nothing Sam Vecenie: never listen to him or use him in anything I do, so your continued dishonesty is making this a solid conversation!

[eyeatoma]

VJ: 36.3 percent on catch-and-shoot 3-pointers
Ace: 38.7 percent on catch-and-shoot 3-point attempts

Can we at least be fair that they are about the same as theoretical shooters please.

Ok, in that case I'll take the big wing with plus positional length over the one-year older average-sized shooting guard.

Congrats, you drafted Patrick Williams over Anthony Edwards. Glad we're having a totally not dishonest conversation right now.

To be fair, one comp is the floor and one is the absolute max potential. Ace could be Tatum.

Ant had all the opportunities when he started with Minny and he was basically handed over the keys to the team in his 2nd year. I doubt VJ gets that treatment given how much overlap we have positionally. Also Nurse is more likely to relegate him to the bench because of the position issues.

[Arsenal]

VJ: 36.3 percent on catch-and-shoot 3-pointers
Ace: 38.7 percent on catch-and-shoot 3-point attempts

Can we at least be fair that they are about the same as theoretical shooters please.

Ok, in that case I'll take the big wing with plus positional length over the one-year older average-sized shooting guard.

Congrats, you drafted Patrick Williams over Anthony Edwards. Glad we're having a totally not dishonest conversation right now.

Likewise congrats for drafting Gary Harris over Paul George.

[eyeatoma]

Gary Harris was/is 6'2.5 without shoes. VJ is 6'4 without shoes.

I think comps as we all know is not an exact science with exact measurables, we all know that. The floor is pretty scary with VJ especially with our glut of guards.

[Mik317]

again I don't think defense is VJ's calling card. Its the whole athleticism package. It pops off the screen imo. He is currently capable at most things. But that speed and burst CAN open up the world....especially in better spacing. Ironically kinda has the same profile as...Maxey which might be a ding against him due to double up.

My concerns is that he doesn't fully look his 6'5 listing but both of these finals teams run lineups with guys in that range playing together....and honestly whoever we take will be the 7th man at best for the start of his career until we make a decision on Maxey or McCain..and Grimes can still leave as well.

Again I am currently team Tre because dat shooting and despite all of my posts in this thread trashing him I don't think Ace is total ass and would be fine if he's the pick because I see the vision in theory at least.

[Jailblazers7]

Gary Harris was/is 6'2.5 without shoes. VJ is 6'4 without shoes.

I think comps as we all know is not an exact science with exact measurables, we all know that. The floor is pretty scary with VJ especially with our glut of guards.

Getting preoccupied with positional fit when drafting 3rd is traditionally a recipe for disaster. Gotta take the best player available (whoever you deem that to be) and figure out the rest later.