2025 NBA Draft (2)

[Negrodamus]

I know it'll be misconstrued, but watching this Indy game I feel like VJ and Mathurin have similarities in their games. I think VJ has higher upside in the pros: more athletic, better defensive metrics, better passer. But both Arizona highlights and this current game gives me those vibes.

That said, I think Mathurin is immensely talented but consistency and being a liability on defense has limited him early in his career.

Watch on YouTube

[stormi]

Trey Murphy was a pure upside pick based heavily on his physical gifts of size and length. His actual college production wasn’t anything special.

So pretty much the exact opposite type of prospect to Kon.

If Kon had Murphy’s physical gifts I’d be banging the table for him louder than Stormi lol.

Wilfully disingenuous arguments <

Trey was a third year college player who saw his raw output and production fall at the time, and he was a tall lanky F that couldn't defend the perimeter or protect the rim. Trey Murphy had zero "star upside" and wasn't appreciated by anyone other than a minority section of the fanbase.

An algorithm would have drafted Murphy though. Rare shooting (92% ft) and fantastic underlying numbers.

He's quite literally the anti Ace Bailey.

[Black Mage]

Second half of the season (final 25 games) he peaked at a level higher than any other player besides Flagg.

When he was given the keys in the tournament after Flagg went down he dropped 30/5/8 on 71 TS% and was declared the ACC Tournament MVP.

His pedigree also extend beyond his ~30 games at Duke. He's been a winner at every level.

Did he win a Championship? No? Then he couldn't even pull strings on a favored and loaded Duke team. Doubt he'll come close to it in the pro's then.

Has nothing to do with his performances, he was the best player in the Tournament. For an alleged stacked and dominant supporting cast, his 7' was somehow kept off the glass in a three point loss.

Kon might be the best player in the class if he's getting held to Lebron's mythical standards.

Are we also going to ignore you willfully spreading misinformation in this thread?

You can make rational arguments without inventing things that are easily fact checkable or hiding behind vapid platitudes like "star upside".

So you admit you're own prior statement was bullsh**. You said Ace would be in China and Kon would be pulling strings on a championship team. So you didn't even believe your own garbage.

[Negrodamus]

Devin Booker averaged 10ppg and didn't start a game in his college career. Once again are we really dinging guys for playing for a good team?

[stormi]

Did he win a Championship? No? Then he couldn't even pull strings on a favored and loaded Duke team. Doubt he'll come close to it in the pro's then.

Has nothing to do with his performances, he was the best player in the Tournament. For an alleged stacked and dominant supporting cast, his 7' was somehow kept off the glass in a three point loss.

Kon might be the best player in the class if he's getting held to Lebron's mythical standards.

Are we also going to ignore you willfully spreading misinformation in this thread?

You can make rational arguments without inventing things that are easily fact checkable or hiding behind vapid platitudes like "star upside".

So you admit you're own prior statement was bullsh**. You said Ace would be in China and Kon would be pulling strings on a championship team. So you didn't even believe your own garbage.

You said Kon made three middys all year -> lie.

and then started rambling about Looney Tunes when it was disproven.

Getting second hand embarrassment thinking about the damage you did to the environment to ask ChatGPT about Kon's midrange splits this year and believing the nonsense it spit back out at you.

[Black Mage]

Stop being Roger Rabbit denying Jessica played patty-cake and go listen to the podcast or google it. He said it; he isn't comfortable taking shots in the midrange.

Dawg, what?

What plumber are you two arguing about? I'm totally lost. Rodger Rabbit somehow made it into the conversation. Stormi over here acting like Judge Doon with his Anti Ace freeway he's building.

I pointed out what Kon said himself and Stormi cried "it's just not true!"

Watch on YouTube

[Black Mage]

Has nothing to do with his performances, he was the best player in the Tournament. For an alleged stacked and dominant supporting cast, his 7' was somehow kept off the glass in a three point loss.

Kon might be the best player in the class if he's getting held to Lebron's mythical standards.

Are we also going to ignore you willfully spreading misinformation in this thread?

You can make rational arguments without inventing things that are easily fact checkable or hiding behind vapid platitudes like "star upside".

So you admit you're own prior statement was bullsh**. You said Ace would be in China and Kon would be pulling strings on a championship team. So you didn't even believe your own garbage.

You said Kon made three middys all year -> lie.

and then started rambling about Looney Tunes when it was disproven.

Getting second hand embarrassment thinking about the damage you did to the environment to ask ChatGPT about Kon's midrange splits this year and believing the nonsense it spit back out at you.

Pull up midrange, again go listen to the podcast Roger if you can't believe it, won't believe, shan't believe it! Kon said it himself.

Also, Roger Rabbit is Disney, learn your cartoons.

[stormi]

So you admit you're own prior statement was bullsh**. You said Ace would be in China and Kon would be pulling strings on a championship team. So you didn't even believe your own garbage.

You said Kon made three middys all year -> lie.

and then started rambling about Looney Tunes when it was disproven.

Getting second hand embarrassment thinking about the damage you did to the environment to ask ChatGPT about Kon's midrange splits this year and believing the nonsense it spit back out at you.

Pull up midrange, again go listen to the podcast Roger if you can't believe, it, won't believe, shan't believe it! Kon said it himself.

Also, Roger Rabbit is Disney, learn your cartoons.

Whatever you heard is factually and statistically untrue.

Link the podcast or the clip with detailed time stamps, and if it does exist (big, big if) and it wasn't an episode of manic schizophrenia, double check the date it was posted.

Last chance before you strike out.

[Black Mage]

You said Kon made three middys all year -> lie.

and then started rambling about Looney Tunes when it was disproven.

Getting second hand embarrassment thinking about the damage you did to the environment to ask ChatGPT about Kon's midrange splits this year and believing the nonsense it spit back out at you.

Pull up midrange, again go listen to the podcast Roger if you can't believe, it, won't believe, shan't believe it! Kon said it himself.

Also, Roger Rabbit is Disney, learn your cartoons.

Whatever you heard is factually and statistically untrue.

Link the podcast or the clip with detailed time stamps, and if it does exist (big, big if) and it wasn't an episode of manic schizophrenia, double check the date it was posted.

Last chance before you strike out.

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DJ_4g-CNqq5/?utm_source=ig_embed&ig_rid=9b012c28-c687-43f2-b374-ef53093e69f5

Choke on it Roger. Your boy the "shooter" ain't comfortable shooting off the dribble. That's 4-5 years of H.S. and college play and he STILL isn't comfortable.

[Arsenal]

Trey Murphy was a pure upside pick based heavily on his physical gifts of size and length. His actual college production wasn’t anything special.

So pretty much the exact opposite type of prospect to Kon.

If Kon had Murphy’s physical gifts I’d be banging the table for him louder than Stormi lol.

Wilfully disingenuous arguments <

Trey was a third year college player who saw his raw output and production fall at the time, and he was a tall lanky F that couldn't defend the perimeter or protect the rim. Trey Murphy had zero "star upside" and wasn't appreciated by anyone other than a minority section of the fanbase.

An algorithm would have drafted Murphy though. Rare shooting (92% ft) and fantastic underlying numbers.

He's quite literally the anti Ace Bailey.

No, I agree we should trade down and take Kon at #17 overall, just like Trey Murphy. Good call.

[stormi]

Pull up midrange, again go listen to the podcast Roger if you can't believe, it, won't believe, shan't believe it! Kon said it himself.

Also, Roger Rabbit is Disney, learn your cartoons.

Whatever you heard is factually and statistically untrue.

Link the podcast or the clip with detailed time stamps, and if it does exist (big, big if) and it wasn't an episode of manic schizophrenia, double check the date it was posted.

Last chance before you strike out.

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DJ_4g-CNqq5/?utm_source=ig_embed&ig_rid=9b012c28-c687-43f2-b374-ef53093e69f5

Choke on it Roger. Your boy the "shooter" ain't comfortable shooting off the dribble. That's 4-5 years of H.S. and college play and he STILL isn't comfortable.

You must be ill.

KOC said you only took 21 midrange jumpers and made THREE.

KOC didn't "say" that. The caption reads that he only took 21 PU THREES, not that he only took 21 mid range jumpers and made three.

Next he says "we" didn't take a lot of them at Duke, which is just the game-state of the modern league.

At the end of the clip, Kon quite literally reiterates that it was a Duke thing. Rim 2s and threes only. This is something that will 100% translate to the next level. Unless you're Shai/Embiid/Jokic, you don't get the luxury of living off of mid-range 2s because it's mathematically the least valuable shot per possession. It'll get coached out of you. It happened to Tatum.

Actually I'm glad the conversation has shifted this way. It proves why the emphasis on 'rim pressure' and shooting indicators are taking over draft narrative.

The two most valuable shots in the modern game and the two specific areas that Ace suffers. He lives in the least valuable zone [contested deep 2s].

[zaz102]

The draft can'tcxome quick enough. This thread is going looney tunes

[stormi]

Trey Murphy was a pure upside pick based heavily on his physical gifts of size and length. His actual college production wasn’t anything special.

So pretty much the exact opposite type of prospect to Kon.

If Kon had Murphy’s physical gifts I’d be banging the table for him louder than Stormi lol.

Wilfully disingenuous arguments <

Trey was a third year college player who saw his raw output and production fall at the time, and he was a tall lanky F that couldn't defend the perimeter or protect the rim. Trey Murphy had zero "star upside" and wasn't appreciated by anyone other than a minority section of the fanbase.

An algorithm would have drafted Murphy though. Rare shooting (92% ft) and fantastic underlying numbers.

He's quite literally the anti Ace Bailey.

No, I agree we should trade down and take Kon at #17 overall, just like Trey Murphy. Good call.

I thought we agreed some hours ago that we were using history as a study guide to improve our processes as a community.

What made Trey successful and what can be use to represent that as a ledger against both Kon and Trey.

Comparing all three, if Trey Murphy's breakdown at equilibrium is worth the the 17th overall pick, then a significantly better college prospect in all of the important areas (Kon) should be getting drafted significantly higher.

...and vice versa, an inferior prospect (Ace Bailey) should have it reflected in his updated draft range, so starting in the early-mid 20s.

[Arsenal]

Kon’s inability to shoot off the dribble is a big reason why he won’t be a primary playmaker in the NBA. Without that ability, athletic defenders will crowd his space and force him to drive, which he won’t be able to do against better, longer athletes.

He’ll then settle into a nice Grayson Allen or Luke Kennard type of role.

[Arsenal]

Wilfully disingenuous arguments <

Trey was a third year college player who saw his raw output and production fall at the time, and he was a tall lanky F that couldn't defend the perimeter or protect the rim. Trey Murphy had zero "star upside" and wasn't appreciated by anyone other than a minority section of the fanbase.

An algorithm would have drafted Murphy though. Rare shooting (92% ft) and fantastic underlying numbers.

He's quite literally the anti Ace Bailey.

No, I agree we should trade down and take Kon at #17 overall, just like Trey Murphy. Good call.

I thought we agreed some hours ago that we were using history as a study guide to improve our processes as a community.

What made Trey successful and what can be use to represent that as a ledger against both Kon and Trey.

Comparing all three, if Trey Murphy's breakdown at equilibrium is worth the the 17th overall pick, then a significantly better college prospect in all of the important areas (Kon) should be getting drafted significantly higher.

...and vice versa, an inferior prospect (Ace Bailey) should have it reflected in his updated draft range, so starting in the early-mid 20s.

Wrong. Kon is significantly INFERIOR to Murphy in terms of height, length, reach, and overall athleticism.

Those things matter, regardless of how much you try to discount them to focus solely on numbers.

[stormi]

Kon’s inability to shoot off the dribble is a big reason why he won’t be a primary playmaker in the NBA. Without that ability, athletic defenders will crowd his space and force him to drive, which he won’t be able to do against better, longer athletes.

He’ll then settle into a nice Grayson Allen or Luke Kennard type of role.

There's just nothing statistically about Kon's season that confirms this. Final 25 games of the season:

Kon’s offensive game was fleshed out in this span>> 3Pr dropped to 44.9 (was relied upon much more for creation)

his FT and rim volume jumped significantly to 3.8 ATT/G (+1.1) and 4.7 FTA/G (+2.3)

efficiency leapt significantly, his hustle stats jumped significantly> OREB% to 6.1 (+2.9) & STL% to 2.5 (+0.8)

12.8 BPM, 139 ORTG, 71% TS, 17% AST, 49.3 FTr.

He had the splits 40.6% 3P, 91.4 FT%, the creation 1.8 A:TO, the raw counting stats for PRA fans 17/4.6/3.3

Flashed elite self creation> 73% rim + 90% long-two makes unassisted

The athletic concerns are fair, but he displayed high level scoring and passing and was able to be contribute high impact scaled down role and saw his efficiency ascend when his usage rose.

Everything about KK screams high minute contributor on a championship team.

[stormi]

No, I agree we should trade down and take Kon at #17 overall, just like Trey Murphy. Good call.

I thought we agreed some hours ago that we were using history as a study guide to improve our processes as a community.

What made Trey successful and what can be use to represent that as a ledger against both Kon and Trey.

Comparing all three, if Trey Murphy's breakdown at equilibrium is worth the the 17th overall pick, then a significantly better college prospect in all of the important areas (Kon) should be getting drafted significantly higher.

...and vice versa, an inferior prospect (Ace Bailey) should have it reflected in his updated draft range, so starting in the early-mid 20s.

Wrong. Kon is significantly INFERIOR to Murphy in terms of height, length, reach, and overall athleticism.

WRONG. Flagg is significantly INFERIOR to Fleming in terms of height, length, reach, and overall athleticism.

Read on Twitter

1st overall pick?

[Arsenal]

Kon’s inability to shoot off the dribble is a big reason why he won’t be a primary playmaker in the NBA. Without that ability, athletic defenders will crowd his space and force him to drive, which he won’t be able to do against better, longer athletes.

He’ll then settle into a nice Grayson Allen or Luke Kennard type of role.

There's just nothing statistically about Kon's season that confirms this. Final 25 games of the season:

Kon’s offensive game was fleshed out in this span>> 3Pr dropped to 44.9 (was relied upon much more for creation)

his FT and rim volume jumped significantly to 3.8 ATT/G (+1.1) and 4.7 FTA/G (+2.3)

efficiency leapt significantly, his hustle stats jumped significantly> OREB% to 6.1 (+2.9) & STL% to 2.5 (+0.8)

12.8 BPM, 139 ORTG, 71% TS, 17% AST, 49.3 FTr.

He had the splits 40.6% 3P, 91.4 FT%, the creation 1.8 A:TO, the raw counting stats for PRA fans 17/4.6/3.3

Flashed elite self creation> 73% rim + 90% long-two makes unassisted

The athletic concerns are fair, but he displayed high level scoring and passing and was able to be contribute high impact scaled down role and saw his efficiency ascend when his usage rose.

Everything about KK screams high minute contributor on a championship team.

Those pretty stats are against inferior athletes on a stacked team. None of which will apply when he gets to the NBA.

There he will be a nice C&S spacer who has trouble defending since he’s not quick enough to defend guards, and forwards will shoot over his T-Rex arms with no problem whatsoever.

[Arsenal]

I thought we agreed some hours ago that we were using history as a study guide to improve our processes as a community.

What made Trey successful and what can be use to represent that as a ledger against both Kon and Trey.

Comparing all three, if Trey Murphy's breakdown at equilibrium is worth the the 17th overall pick, then a significantly better college prospect in all of the important areas (Kon) should be getting drafted significantly higher.

...and vice versa, an inferior prospect (Ace Bailey) should have it reflected in his updated draft range, so starting in the early-mid 20s.

Wrong. Kon is significantly INFERIOR to Murphy in terms of height, length, reach, and overall athleticism.

WRONG. Flagg is significantly INFERIOR to Fleming in terms of height, length, reach, and overall athleticism.

Read on Twitter

1st overall pick?

Straw man?

[stormi]

Wrong. Kon is significantly INFERIOR to Murphy in terms of height, length, reach, and overall athleticism.

WRONG. Flagg is significantly INFERIOR to Fleming in terms of height, length, reach, and overall athleticism.

Read on Twitter

1st overall pick?

Straw man?

Irony?