Official Knicks Coaching Search Thread

[Gravy]

Maybe the Knicks thought they had Kidd lined up to come here then Kidd snaked them and Leon is left scrambling. Its speculation though until the real story comes out if it ever does.

[Capn'O]

I still find it weird that they signed him to an extension with all these questions hanging and that they're asking teams if they can have their quality head coach when the answer is obviously "no, and it's kinda weird that you're even asking." None of this really matters though. Just sign somebody good.

I think that was Leon’s way of taking care of his boy Thibs in advance

That has to be it. Good to have a friend like that, eh?

[Jalen Bluntson]

What would the compensation be? A 2RP?

Last time Kidd was traded from the Nets to bucks it was two picks in the second round.

1. Mike Dunleavy, Sr.

Dunleavy, Sr. was traded from the Los Angeles Lakers to the Milwaukee Bucks for two second-round picks.

The Lakers were looking to make a change in the post-Magic Johnson era, while the Bucks were looking for a strong head coach.

2. Pat Riley.

Pat Riley left the New York Knicks for the Miami Heat in 1995.

The NBA investigated the Heat and Riley for tampering, and eventually decided that the Knicks should be compensated with a first-round pick, as well as $1 million cash.

3. Stan Van Gundy.

In 2007, Van Gundy was traded from the Miami Heat to the Orlando Magic.

The agreed-upon price for Van Gundy was two 2nd round picks in the 2008 NBA Draft.

4. Doc Rivers.

In 2013, five years after leading the Boston Celtics to a title, Doc Rivers was traded from the Celtics to the Los Angeles Clippers for a 2015 1st-round pick.

Despite having a loaded team and Doc Rivers as their coach, the Clippers were unable to win a title.

5. Jason Kidd.

In 2014, the Brooklyn Nets traded Jason Kidd to the Milwaukee Bucks for two second-round picks.

It's been quite a while since the practice of trading coaches was a thing. Draft picks are too valuable now.
My broader point was that firing Thibs and then starting a coaching search inclusive of coaches under contract isn't a new or novel thing, especially if firing Thibs was a forgone conclusion by the end of the season.

Two second round picks seems to be the going rate. Kidd will be the next HC seems like the plan. He can simply step down like Carlisle did?

The Riley situation is different but, could happen here. HC searches specifically targeting other teams current HCs is not as common as you're trying to make it seem though.

I do see the possible angle however. The more I look at this the more it seems we're trying to avoid tampering and that Kidd is the target. It makes the most sense to me. The other guys are the smoke screen. Pushing the "wanting an experienced coach" narrative helps explain things away to an extent.

I won't be surprised at all if Kidd is the next HC.

[HEZI]

So they had months to prepare for this

Not only that but the story is bogus because why did Dolan need to sit with the players for exit interview when he wanted Thibs gone long ago? Why did Leon need the green light from Dolan when he always had it?

What are you saying?

Rose didn’t need to justify to Dolan why he wanted to fire Thibs. Dolan wanted him gone anyway. Dolan being at that exit meeting was him making his presence felt and applying pressure on Rose to do what he’s been asking him to do for years now.

[rajajackal]

i need more news i'm bored

[GONYK]

So dolan wanted him fired most of all….and they had no plan after. Of course, I’m sure people won’t believe this either.

The article states that he was going to be fired either way unless he won the title. That was always the plan.

It also says that Rose and WWW wanted him gone as well, in addition to Dolan, yes, but not because of Dolan.

The rest I guess will be figured out.

So they had months to prepare for this

So we're back to thinking they should have been reaching out with interview requests to coaches with jobs in the middle of the season?

[FrozenEnvelope]

Last time Kidd was traded from the Nets to bucks it was two picks in the second round.

1. Mike Dunleavy, Sr.

Dunleavy, Sr. was traded from the Los Angeles Lakers to the Milwaukee Bucks for two second-round picks.

The Lakers were looking to make a change in the post-Magic Johnson era, while the Bucks were looking for a strong head coach.

2. Pat Riley.

Pat Riley left the New York Knicks for the Miami Heat in 1995.

The NBA investigated the Heat and Riley for tampering, and eventually decided that the Knicks should be compensated with a first-round pick, as well as $1 million cash.

3. Stan Van Gundy.

In 2007, Van Gundy was traded from the Miami Heat to the Orlando Magic.

The agreed-upon price for Van Gundy was two 2nd round picks in the 2008 NBA Draft.

4. Doc Rivers.

In 2013, five years after leading the Boston Celtics to a title, Doc Rivers was traded from the Celtics to the Los Angeles Clippers for a 2015 1st-round pick.

Despite having a loaded team and Doc Rivers as their coach, the Clippers were unable to win a title.

5. Jason Kidd.

In 2014, the Brooklyn Nets traded Jason Kidd to the Milwaukee Bucks for two second-round picks.

It's been quite a while since the practice of trading coaches was a thing. Draft picks are too valuable now.
My broader point was that firing Thibs and then starting a coaching search inclusive of coaches under contract isn't a new or novel thing, especially if firing Thibs was a forgone conclusion by the end of the season.

Two second round picks seems to be the going rate. Kidd will be the next HC seems like the plan. He can simply step down like Carlisle did?

The Riley situation is different but, could happen here. HC searches specifically targeting other teams current HCs is not as common as you're trying to make it seem though.

I do see the possible angle however. The more I look at this the more it seems we're trying to avoid tampering and that Kidd is the target. It makes the most sense to me. The other guys are the smoke screen. Pushing the "wanting an experienced coach" narrative helps explain things away to an extent.

I won't be surprised at all if Kidd is the next HC.

OK but why did Kidd hire those 2 assistant coaches this week? Are they coming here with him?

[BKlutch]

I wasn't very high on Mike Brown as our next coach, but reading this made me think he might be good. What do others think?

Read on Twitter

This seems to say he has very good ideas about a motion offense, but his success was limited when he coached the Kings by the quality of their personnel. No matter who is chosen, I really think a motion offense would serve us far better than placing people in spots where they can stand around waiting for the defender to approach. The 3 point shooter who gets to his spot well before the defender is going to have a better shot. And those who can leave their defender to go inside will also shoot a higher percentage.

[KnicksGadfly]

The media is overreacting quite a bit, i feel like regardless of what the knicks did, the media was going to find a way to make it negative. if the knicks fired thibs and then hired somebody the nexy day, the media would find a way to spin it in a negative way by saying we never did a proper coaching search. so lets relax and let Leon and the rest of the Org do their jobs. leave no stone unturned!

I’m usually in the minority and rarely react like the media, but my first response upon hearing they’d let Thibs go was they must’ve had someone on deck. Now that we know they didn’t, I find the media’s response to be both predictable and reasonable.

I think it could have been an element of surprise during the playoffs. I don't know if I've ever seen a Thibs team ever need to have multiple player meetings during the postseason to address things like effort and sacrifice. It's weird as eff...if you told me that Thibs would beat the Celtics before the season, I'd say, automatic extension. But the highs were high and rare, and the lows were more common and alarming. We can blame the players for that, but I'd say that the players were trying and weren't figuring out. At some point, the coach needs to figure it out...coaches are also culture setters and the ultimate team leaders with decision-making authority.

I think the other thing is that I think it's really unreasonable to think they will have someone on deck to replace Thibs, if he gets fired, unless that person is already in our org. Like if we had an assistant coach that we liked, then yea, that dude would be on deck. For example, when the Grizzlies fired Jenkins, they had their dude on the deck. The Knicks didn't; to me, if they didn't have anyone internal they liked, it's 100% fine that they want to take their time and interview. I don't think they should ever have anyone on deck that comes from a different org like that...if they don't know the guy, he should not be on deck. When it's an external hire, they should take their time and vet people.

But, during the season? I don't think it's reasonable to expect the Knicks to be prepared to fire Thibs by doing a bunch of research in the middle of it. There's no way to drop feelers about hiring other coaches and interviewing other coaches during the season, unless we want to have a media shyt storm. That stuff will 100% leak. It's not the right way to treat Thibs and also not good for the players and a huge distraction.

I guess my point...this whole thing about the Knicks needing to fire Thibs and then having an external coach in mind immediately is unreasonable. Internal? Yes, get the guy ready. External? Take your time.

[spree8]

Not only that but the story is bogus because why did Dolan need to sit with the players for exit interview when he wanted Thibs gone long ago? Why did Leon need the green light from Dolan when he always had it?

Because it’s his 30 million dollars Leon wants to throw away

Except this part

The Knicks, and owner James Dolan most of all, were done with Thibodeau long before he led them to their first East finals appearance since 2000.

So what you say doesn’t make sense

I don’t see how what you quoted there makes it not make sense?

“Long before” is a relative term, we don’t know when exactly Leon became done with him, but considering he gave him the extension last summer, and then fired him this summer, it had to be during the season. Also, according to reports, they haven’t spoken for almost a year, and it got to the point that if Thibs didn’t win the title, he was gone.

That being said we know Wes and Dolan wanted Thibs gone years back, but Dolan told Leon it was his call… since Leon gave Thibs that massive extension, Dolan likely wanted to know ok, why are you pissing away 30 million of my dollars so quickly? Because that doesn’t make Leon look like he’s got good judgement. So he wanted to hear first hand what was up with the players.

[Jalen Bluntson]

It's been quite a while since the practice of trading coaches was a thing. Draft picks are too valuable now.
My broader point was that firing Thibs and then starting a coaching search inclusive of coaches under contract isn't a new or novel thing, especially if firing Thibs was a forgone conclusion by the end of the season.

Two second round picks seems to be the going rate. Kidd will be the next HC seems like the plan. He can simply step down like Carlisle did?

The Riley situation is different but, could happen here. HC searches specifically targeting other teams current HCs is not as common as you're trying to make it seem though.

I do see the possible angle however. The more I look at this the more it seems we're trying to avoid tampering and that Kidd is the target. It makes the most sense to me. The other guys are the smoke screen. Pushing the "wanting an experienced coach" narrative helps explain things away to an extent.

I won't be surprised at all if Kidd is the next HC.

OK but why did Kidd hire those 2 assistant coaches this week? Are they coming here with him?

That's a good question. Maybe? Maybe he hired his successor? Maybe it's not a great plan. I am trying to make sense of it myself.

[god shammgod]

The article states that he was going to be fired either way unless he won the title. That was always the plan.

It also says that Rose and WWW wanted him gone as well, in addition to Dolan, yes, but not because of Dolan.

The rest I guess will be figured out.

So they had months to prepare for this

So we're back to thinking they should have been reaching out with interview requests to coaches with jobs in the middle of the season?

Perhaps they should have been thinking about having a few options high on their list other than guys under contract

The optics of this are that the Knicks are back to their old foolish ways

[ezmoney707]

The article states that he was going to be fired either way unless he won the title. That was always the plan.

It also says that Rose and WWW wanted him gone as well, in addition to Dolan, yes, but not because of Dolan.

The rest I guess will be figured out.

So they had months to prepare for this

So we're back to thinking they should have been reaching out with interview requests to coaches with jobs in the middle of the season?

The Knicks were in a damned if you do, damned if you don’t situation with the success the team had this year.

Option A you fire him and have a quick replacement, you look like a snake of an organization for going behind his back planning his successor causing a PR backlash.

Then you have option B you conduct an actual coaching search and get silly public outcry about not having a plan because you didn’t want to do option A and you want to get the best candidate possible regardless of employment.

Again I will state, this team can’t afford to be hit with tampering charges from another team after the Jalen Brunson situation, option B was always the best way.

[3toheadmelo]

I can probably talk myself into Taylor Jenkins. But please no Mike brown.

Same. I think Jenkins would be a better risk to take than Brown

Jenkins is a interesting case. It sounds like the Grizzlies did him dirty.

Offensively, the Grizzlies had become something of a science experiment this season, offering glimpses at how several radical offensive concepts from Europe, and spacing principles found in hockey and soccer, would work in the NBA, but also how difficult it is to get full buy-in from players to implement them

There were two architects and one supervisor -- Jenkins -- charged with blending the competing visions. One was Tuomas Iisalo, a Finnish coach who'd had a meteoric rise in Europe by implementing innovative offensive concepts around pick-and-roll schemes, pacing and offensive rebounding. Another was player development specialist Noah LaRoche, whom the Grizzlies had lured from a consulting role with the San Antonio Spurs and charged with teaching an offense that prioritized spacing and largely did away with pick-and-rolls and dribble handoffs.

Jenkins, the fifth-longest-tenured NBA coach, had never met either of the assistants before interviewing them, one source said.

Still, the Grizzlies paid a seven-figure buyout to Paris Basketball, which Iisalo (pronounced EE-za-lo) coached to a EuroCup championship last season. Memphis also gave Iisalo and LaRoche seven-figure salaries. That's especially lucrative for a second-row assistant such as LaRoche, but it's also extraordinarily unusual for a second-row assistant to have his fingerprints all over the revamping of a team's offensive system. In fact, Memphis hired LaRoche first (in May 2024) with the intention of building the staff of assistants around him, one source said. The club wouldn't bring in Iisalo until nearly two months later.

To make room for these new voices, Kleiman insisted Jenkins replace five of the assistant coaches who'd been with him throughout his time in Memphis: Brad Jones, Blake Ahearn, Scoonie Penn, Vitaly Potapenko and Sonia Raman.

Jenkins went along with the request, in an effort to be a good partner, said a league source, who added, "Taylor shouldn't have allowed that to happen."

The coach was so upset at the news he'd have to deliver to each of his longtime assistants, he invited each over to his house in Memphis for individual sessions.

The front office felt the new approach needed space to get off the ground, according to a source. So the club cut ties with virtually everyone associated with the team's ways of the past.

"It was a total shock because we'd already had our exit meetings and were preparing for the summer," one former assistant said. "We'd all gone away for a few weeks and came back to start work again. Taylor felt so bad about it. But apparently they decided to go in another direction."

"Going in another direction" has become cliché -- a nice way of glossing over a difficult situation and avoiding specific issues. But in this case that's exactly what it was.

"They were going all-in on these new concepts," another source close to the situation said.

The immediate, unintended effect was to signal to the rest of the league, and the Grizzlies' players, that Jenkins was on thin ice.

"Players aren't stupid," another source said. "They know where this is heading when you fire five assistants after the season."

And when the job is getting players to buy into new offensive concepts, already uncomfortable for most NBA players, being taught different schemes by two assistant coaches immediately undercut Jenkins' authority.

[GONYK]

So they had months to prepare for this

So we're back to thinking they should have been reaching out with interview requests to coaches with jobs in the middle of the season?

Perhaps they should have been thinking about having a few options high on their list other than guys under contract

The optics of this are that the Knicks are back to their old foolish ways

I'm assuming the guys who are not under contract are the names we're hearing now, after they have canvassed who they can talk to under contract and before they look at college coaches (if they do).

Those guys aren't going anywhere, because we are the only vacancy.

[3toheadmelo]

I wasn't very high on Mike Brown as our next coach, but reading this made me think he might be good. What do others think?

Read on Twitter

This seems to say he has very good ideas about a motion offense, but his success was limited when he coached the Kings by the quality of their personnel. No matter who is chosen, I really think a motion offense would serve us far better than placing people in spots where they can stand around waiting for the defender to approach. The 3 point shooter who gets to his spot well before the defender is going to have a better shot. And those who can leave their defender to go inside will also shoot a higher percentage.

no

[The Vo Show]

The media is overreacting quite a bit, i feel like regardless of what the knicks did, the media was going to find a way to make it negative. if the knicks fired thibs and then hired somebody the nexy day, the media would find a way to spin it in a negative way by saying we never did a proper coaching search. so lets relax and let Leon and the rest of the Org do their jobs. leave no stone unturned!

I’m usually in the minority and rarely react like the media, but my first response upon hearing they’d let Thibs go was they must’ve had someone on deck. Now that we know they didn’t, I find the media’s response to be both predictable and reasonable.

I think it could have been an element of surprise during the playoffs. I don't know if I've ever seen a Thibs team ever need to have multiple player meetings during the postseason to address things like effort and sacrifice. It's weird as eff...if you told me that Thibs would beat the Celtics before the season, I'd say, automatic extension. But the highs were high and rare, and the lows were more common and alarming. We can blame the players for that, but I'd say that the players were trying and weren't figuring out. At some point, the coach needs to figure it out...coaches are also culture setters and the ultimate team leaders with decision-making authority.

I think the other thing is that I think it's really unreasonable to think they will have someone on deck to replace Thibs, if he gets fired, unless that person is already in our org. Like if we had an assistant coach that we liked, then yea, that dude would be on deck. For example, when the Grizzlies fired Jenkins, they had their dude on the deck. The Knicks didn't; to me, if they didn't have anyone internal they liked, it's 100% fine that they want to take their time and interview. I don't think they should ever have anyone on deck that comes from a different org like that...if they don't know the guy, he should not be on deck. When it's an external hire, they should take their time and vet people.

But, during the season? I don't think it's reasonable to expect the Knicks to be prepared to fire Thibs by doing a bunch of research in the middle of it. There's no way to drop feelers about hiring other coaches and interviewing other coaches during the season, unless we want to have a media shyt storm. That stuff will 100% leak. It's not the right way to treat Thibs and also not good for the players and a huge distraction.

I guess my point...this whole thing about the Knicks needing to fire Thibs and then having an external coach in mind immediately is unreasonable. Internal? Yes, get the guy ready. External? Take your time.

I agree with all this but it still begs the question of why fire thibs in the first place? Maybe he isn't the guy to take you over the top but he's clearly a good coach. Is there a better replacement out there? There could be but we sure don't know yet. The game plan is to try to poach other teams' coaches? That sounds like a terrible game plan since it may involve us giving up picks to get it done, which we already don't have many of and we lack depth.

My confusion about the firing is more about the timing than anything. Feels like maybe Thibs lost the locker room and FO made a knee jerk reaction. I agree with Teague when he said that Thibs needed to hire an offensive coordinator that he trusts. I think that would have maybe been a better route. At least it'd give Thibs one more shot for redemption and given the Knicks someone who potentially could have taken over if they still wanted to get rid of him.

[aq_ua]

I wasn't very high on Mike Brown as our next coach, but reading this made me think he might be good. What do others think?

Read on Twitter

This seems to say he has very good ideas about a motion offense, but his success was limited when he coached the Kings by the quality of their personnel. No matter who is chosen, I really think a motion offense would serve us far better than placing people in spots where they can stand around waiting for the defender to approach. The 3 point shooter who gets to his spot well before the defender is going to have a better shot. And those who can leave their defender to go inside will also shoot a higher percentage.

In a vacuum, a motion offense sounds good. The question is, do we have the personnel for it? Our best outside shooter is JB, so if we're running him off multiple screens, we need an offensive initiator like Draymond Green. The only big we have capable of that might be KAT, but he's more flashy passing than really initiating. The second option is Hart, but he's not enough of an offensive threat, nor big enough to post up. Makes me wonder if really the best offensive set that maximizes our talents is the triangle *ducks for cover*.

[Capn'O]

Jenkins intrigues me. They had a good record through all sorts of drama and injuries. They always have nobodies stepping up during those times. He might be a little reactionary after Thibs going away from heavy minutes to the starters but he clearly ran a good ship.

Also, somebody give Sam Cassell a chance. He's been a lead assistant on good squads for years.

[HEZI]

Because it’s his 30 million dollars Leon wants to throw away

Except this part

The Knicks, and owner James Dolan most of all, were done with Thibodeau long before he led them to their first East finals appearance since 2000.

So what you say doesn’t make sense

I don’t see how what you quoted there makes it not make sense?

“Long before” is a relative term, we don’t know when exactly Leon became done with him, but considering he gave him the extension last summer, and then fired him this summer, it had to be during the season. Also, according to reports, they haven’t spoken for almost a year, and it got to the point that if Thibs didn’t win the title, he was gone.

That being said we know Wes and Dolan wanted Thibs gone years back, but Dolan told Leon it was his call… since Leon gave Thibs that massive extension, Dolan likely wanted to know ok, why are you pissing away 30 million of my dollars so quickly? Because that doesn’t make Leon look like he’s got good judgement. So he wanted to hear first hand what was up with the players.

Dolan was well informed about the complaints. Even if you listen to the podcast with Jalen and Hart he knew what was going on. This wasn’t something he had to be there for to hear the players out, he was already fielding those complaints. He used that interview to pressure Rose but I guarantee you it wasn’t the first time he was hearing those complaints. So again he didn’t need to be there but he made sure he was