Kon Air: The Kon Knueppel Thread

[fatlever]

are we ignoring the fact that at 18 knecht was playing for a junior college?
and even at 20 he was averaging 8ppg for northern colorado - shooting 35% from 3 and 75% from ft?

i get you dont like kon, but you're going way out of your way to invent bad arguments to try to make your points.

[MasterIchiro]

I know people will absolutely hate this post, but regarding yesterdays report that Peterson wants driven, high character players that are committed to constant improvement (which is why we like VJ and Kon) like that makes sense to me. I truly think that matters and we currently have too many players who just so clearly don’t seem to care to win.

Driven guys? Maybe Kon and VJ fits but so does Fears who vaulted from top 100 HS class to top 5 college.

You don't make that leap without serious drive.

I think Jeff has options.

[KembaWalker]

I think if you ignore the fact that he fell or whatever and go by predaft thought processes it makes a million times more sense to have taken knecht at 6 last year and VJ/Ace at 4 this year than it does to take tidjane at 6 and Kon at 4 this year. Our risk/reward decisionmaking would make no sense. Why would they play it safe now when there’s actual prospects on the board. At least last year you leave with a steady well sized shooter and you can rest easy knowing you got some value

[fatlever]

unrelated to kon... but damn it would have been so much better to get 4 last yr and 6 this yr. castle + whoever is left of tre, kon, ace, vj
vs
tiddy and vj, ace, tre, kon

sigh

[Braggins]

I started trying to do a predictive mock a few weeks ago and gave up because I didn't know what to do with any of the international guys, but I got to 7 picks and I had New Orleans taking Kon at #7. Thats a bit higher than I would go but I do think there is something behind the buzz hes been getting. I would take Flagg, Harper, Edgecombe, Bailey, Jakucionis, Fears, Johnson, and Demin, over him.

[fatlever]

this draft is gonna be nuts... that much i know for certain
trades at the top
big names dropping
some shocking top 10 picks
so little separates 3 thru 14 in this draft it seems. will be "eye of beholder"

[JMAC3]

are we ignoring the fact that at 18 knecht was playing for a junior college?
and even at 20 he was averaging 8ppg for northern colorado - shooting 35% from 3 and 75% from ft?

i get you dont like kon, but you're going way out of your way to invent bad arguments to try to make your points.

It has nothing to do with Kon, it is the archetype. I had Knecht outside of my top 10 last year too because guys that can't defend and are mainly shooters typically are bad investments. Also, had Sheppard outside of my top 10. Wasn't high on Grady Dick.

I have very clearly went out of my way to say the Age matters, have referenced it multiple times. It is not like I am totally ignoring it, but you also can't just say oh well he is young so it is guaranteed he improves in the NBA. Especially when his limitations are things that getting older isn't fixing, he isn't getting more athletic and growing longer arms by the time he is 23, those limitations are going to exist for his career.

Grady Dick
62% off epm
9% def epm
38% overall

Reed Sheppard
15% off epm
27% def epm
13% overall

Dalton Knecht
72% off epm
1% def epm
35% overall

There is nothing within Kon's profile that says he is going to any better than these guys on defense in the NBA. Reed was crazy good at steals and blocks in college and I think you would be hard to find people who are high on his defensive upside moving forward after watching how his size and athleticism held him back this year vs NBA talent. That is why he didn't play for Houston, Ime doesn't play guys that can't defend.

[Chapelchilla]

I don't think fully grown up Knecht and freshman Kon are remotely similar players. Other than 6'5" and white their games are not alike.
Kon was better as a kid at shooting, creating, passing, steals and efficiency.
Dalton was better at dunking and blocked shots as an adult.
Either way, I think 4 is bit high for either guy and we would be better off trading back if we want him specifically.
VJ is the pick for me, even if we have to move up one. Heck, go bananas and trade up for Harper even.
I think most of the other guys maybe more iffy but hopefully the GM has a better window into that.

[fatlever]

thats the argument then... defense. not passing, or shooting.

you dont think kon can defend well enough to be picked top 4. i can live with that argument. its at least fair.
although, i think reed will be fine eventually, and i think kon can be good enough. we can disagree there for now. no biggie.

saying he's not a better shooter than dalton - comparing 18 yo shooters vs 23 yo... thats where you lose me. shooters almost always get better with time. shooters almost always take a few years to adjust.

[KembaWalker]

thats the argument then... defense. not passing, or shooting.

you dont think kon can defend well enough to be picked top 4. i can live with that argument. its at least fair.
although, i think reed will be fine eventually, and i think kon can be good enough. we can disagree there for now. no biggie.

saying he's not a better shooter than dalton - comparing 18 yo shooters vs 23 yo... thats where you lose me. shooters almost always get better with time. shooters almost always take a few years to adjust.

guess nobody told our guys

[fatlever]

thats the argument then... defense. not passing, or shooting.

you dont think kon can defend well enough to be picked top 4. i can live with that argument. its at least fair.
although, i think reed will be fine eventually, and i think kon can be good enough. we can disagree there for now. no biggie.

saying he's not a better shooter than dalton - comparing 18 yo shooters vs 23 yo... thats where you lose me. shooters almost always get better with time. shooters almost always take a few years to adjust.

guess nobody told our guys

lol, we don't have anyone i'd consider a "shooter" except curry.

[JMAC3]

thats the argument then... defense. not passing, or shooting.

you dont think kon can defend well enough to be picked top 4. i can live with that argument. its at least fair.
although, i think reed will be fine eventually, and i think kon can be good enough. we can disagree there for now. no biggie.

saying he's not a better shooter than dalton - comparing 18 yo shooters vs 23 yo... thats where you lose me. shooters almost always get better with time. shooters almost always take a few years to adjust.

Shooting is more than just shooting percentage though. I could care less about Kon shooting 40.6% this year and Knecht shooting 39.7%. That doesn't tell me one is a better shooter than the other, things like how well can they create their own shot, can they shoot off the dribble, can they shoot a stepback three, do they have deep range, can they shoot coming off screens... all that matters a lot more than looking at free throw percentage or stock 3pt%.

Kon is not good at really any of those things except catch and shoot, he doesn't have deep range, he doesn't shoot off the dribble, doesn't have any type of moves that create space for his three point shot. I don't think Plowright did a breakdown for Knecht last year but watching the film I think he was much better at a lot of these more unique categories and not just a catch and shoot merchant.

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Even with Reed he at least showed some of those skills, drafting Kon and just assuming he will eventually turn into those things.. when there are a ton of guys in the NBA that are great shooters, but can't do those other things at a high level- Kon could very easily be that type of shooter based on what he has shown so far.

[JMAC3]

thats the argument then... defense. not passing, or shooting.

you dont think kon can defend well enough to be picked top 4. i can live with that argument. its at least fair.
although, i think reed will be fine eventually, and i think kon can be good enough. we can disagree there for now. no biggie.

saying he's not a better shooter than dalton - comparing 18 yo shooters vs 23 yo... thats where you lose me. shooters almost always get better with time. shooters almost always take a few years to adjust.

Shooting is more than just shooting percentage though. I could care less about Kon shooting 40.6% this year and Knecht shooting 39.7%. That doesn't tell me one is a better shooter than the other, things like how well can they create their own shot, can they shoot off the dribble, can they shoot a stepback three, do they have deep range, can they shoot coming off screens... all that matters a lot more than looking at free throw percentage or stock 3pt%.

Kon is not good at really any of those things except catch and shoot, he doesn't have deep range, he doesn't shoot off the dribble, doesn't have any type of moves that create space for his three point shot. I don't think Plowright did a breakdown for Knecht last year but watching the film I think he was much better at a lot of these more unique categories and not just a catch and shoot merchant.

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Even with Reed he at least showed some of those skills, drafting Kon and just assuming he will eventually turn into those things.. when there are a ton of guys in the NBA that are great shooters, but can't do those other things at a high level- Kon could very easily be that type of shooter based on what he has shown so far.

Also, kind of proves my point that Kon was living on a whole bunch of wide open shots this year playing on a loaded Duke team.
115 catch and shoot open threes vs only 55 for Reed.

[SWedd523]

I think you're deluding yourself if you think Kon is even going to be a mediocre defender. He is going to be hunted and abused every single night because he's not quick enough to be a perimeter guy and he's way too small to play the big 3/4 role. He's going to be hunted.

Also think you're deluding yourself if you think his "passing and connecting" or whatever buzzword you like is going to be apparent in the league. NO team is going to put the ball in his hands in any sort of meaningful way.

I mean sure maybe he won't be a "ball stopper", but he doesn't have the handle nor athleticism to beat anybody off the dribble to create shot opportunities for himself or others and he doesn't have the size to bully anybody.

His only NBA skill is catch and shoot threes. I know we need that but damn.

I am completely baffled by anyone's desire to draft this kid. With guys like VJ or Ace you can squint and see a multiverse where they reach all star level. It's full on eyes wide shut with Kon

[JMAC3]

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[amcoolio]

Yeah the reason I liked Reed is because he definitely has LaMelo/Curry/Dame range and a beautiful, effortless, quick 3 point shot. I still like Reed a ton and I hope we can get him if Houston is looking to consolidate. We've already missed out on players on the trade/FA market I've liked that we could definitely used, and Reed will be the next one. Like there was no reason for this team not to be in on Dyson Daniels, Caruso, Hart, Jarrett Allen other than they didn't try hard enough or were cheap.

It doesn't appear that Kon has that range and he's not as quick as Reed is to play guard.

[JMAC3]

This being his absolute best highlights of creating from the entire year? The clip is 1:30 long and it was so bad they had to put two shots he missed in it to find quality highlights.

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There is just no burst, no explosion at the rim, no left hand finishes the whole clip, was there an and1 the entire clip? It is just crazy how baseline his driving skills are and people are pumping him up and forcing him 3rd on their big boards. It is crazy how low the bar has become to get the label of "shot creator" or "ball hander" has been dropped. There is legit not one move in this entire highlight that was memorable or gets me excited about his talent.

[JMAC3]

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"Defense scares me"- if I am taking a player that can't defend this high they need to be otherworldly offensive players that can put up 20+ ppg and be elite playmaker like a Trae, Melo, Herro etc...

[JMAC3]

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[fatlever]

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"Defense scares me"- if I am taking a player that can't defend this high they need to be otherworldly offensive players that can put up 20+ ppg and be elite playmaker like a Trae, Melo, Herro etc...

i see things in those clips that i love in a player... so, eye of beholder, i guess. show me clips of the others and i'll love parts as well.

everyone on the 3-8 range has pretty huge question marks, like kon.

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probably comes down to

1 - who can play to their strengths best
2 - who can either improve or hide flaws enough to stay on floor

pick the guy who has an elite skill, is the hardest worker, most coachable. whoever that guy is in our range, thats who to take. whether thats ace, fears, vj, kon, jaku, tre, maluach - i care much less about.

if jeff and co are worried about his d or his off-dribble shooting or self creation, i get it. pass on to the next guy.

im less worried about kon's d than i am tre's fwiw