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2025 NBA Draft (2)

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Re: 2025 NBA Draft (2) 

Post#2061 » by Arsenal » Fri Jun 13, 2025 12:29 am

Negrodamus wrote:I'm actually a round or two behind you: thinking more Ant Edwards with VJ, not Mathurin.


Edwards is a physical beast. A 225 lb freight train of explosiveness with a 6'9" wingspan.

VJ on the other hand is a short 6'7" wingspan and a slight 193 lbs, and that's after adding weight for the combine since he was listed at only 180 lbs in college. He's also over one year older coming out than Edwards was so he has less time to develop. Edwards also had a better handle and could generate his shot off the dribble unlike VJ who needs others to create offense for him.

That's why VJ is a far inferior prospect to Edwards.
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft (2) 

Post#2062 » by Stanford » Fri Jun 13, 2025 12:38 am

Draft expert Nate Duncan
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft (2) 

Post#2063 » by Covi_Marsh » Fri Jun 13, 2025 12:44 am

VJ developing Ant level creation is as slim as Ace developing KD level creation lol.
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft (2) 

Post#2064 » by Arsenal » Fri Jun 13, 2025 12:53 am

Covi_Marsh wrote:VJ developing Ant level creation is as slim as Ace developing KD level creation lol.


Even less likely. If he's such a "hard worker", why does VJ have no handles at 20 years old? Didn't he think it was important to develop, especially since he's a small guard?
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft (2) 

Post#2065 » by eyeatoma » Fri Jun 13, 2025 1:00 am

Arsenal wrote:
Covi_Marsh wrote:VJ developing Ant level creation is as slim as Ace developing KD level creation lol.


Even less likely. If he's such a "hard worker", why does VJ have no handles at 20 years old? Didn't he think it was important to develop, especially since he's a small guard?
Lol

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Re: 2025 NBA Draft (2) 

Post#2066 » by Negrodamus » Fri Jun 13, 2025 1:05 am

The distance from VJ’s stats to Ant’s college stats is light years closer than Ace’s to Durant’s.
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft (2) 

Post#2067 » by Mik317 » Fri Jun 13, 2025 1:14 am

again treating VJ's handle like its Thad Young tier is nuts to me. Doesn't show that way on tape at all.
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft (2) 

Post#2068 » by okboomer » Fri Jun 13, 2025 1:18 am

Id love Harper though I just dont see the Spurs not taking him.

Mik317 wrote:again treating VJ's handle like its Thad Young tier is nuts to me. Doesn't show that way on tape at all.

Cause it's not. It needs work but it's overblown imo. His finishing inside the paint is his biggest issue to me. Also doesnt go left at all really at yet. Though those things should improve with more work.
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft (2) 

Post#2069 » by Arsenal » Fri Jun 13, 2025 1:23 am

okboomer wrote:Id love Harper though I just dont see the Spurs not taking him.

Mik317 wrote:again treating VJ's handle like its Thad Young tier is nuts to me. Doesn't show that way on tape at all.

Cause it's not. It needs work but it's overblown imo. His finishing inside the paint is his biggest issue to me. Also doesnt go left at all really at yet. Though those things should improve with more work.


VJ is supposed to be a lead guard. That requires excellent handles. He has self-proclaimed himself a point guard after all.

Just being "better than Thad Young" tier handles is not anywhere close to good enough for a lead guard.
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft (2) 

Post#2070 » by Negrodamus » Fri Jun 13, 2025 1:31 am

Mik317 wrote:again treating VJ's handle like its Thad Young tier is nuts to me. Doesn't show that way on tape at all.



Not worth it. When they make a point, it’s always hyperbolic so it seems ludicrous to compare (insert prospect) to Ace, especially when talking Ceiling©.
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft (2) 

Post#2071 » by Sixersftw » Fri Jun 13, 2025 1:37 am

I really want Harper. Not because he's the clearly better prospect (he is) but I just want Ace people and VJ people to get no resolution to the coming weeks of back and forth
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft (2) 

Post#2072 » by PhillyFan11 » Fri Jun 13, 2025 1:38 am

I personally have no interest in drafting VJ at 3. He almost reminds of a Caris Lavert type player…he’s talented enough to give you 15-20 ppg in the future, but does he have any 1 skill set that stands out enough to make him a real difference maker? I have serious doubts

But the real question is…if they do go VJ at 3 would they still commit to Grimes long term if/when he has other suitors?
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft (2) 

Post#2073 » by Negrodamus » Fri Jun 13, 2025 1:48 am

PhillyFan11 wrote:I personally have no interest in drafting VJ at 3. He almost reminds of a Caris Lavert type player…he’s talented enough to give you 15-20 ppg in the future, but does he have any 1 skill set that stands out enough to make him a real difference maker? I have serious doubts

But the real question is…if they do go VJ at 3 would they still commit to Grimes long term if/when he has other suitors?


This is a fair questioning of VJ (who isn’t even my favorite player in this draft). Caris is an interesting comparison and a guy I was high on in his draft.

I think they sign Grimes regardless. Having a Maxey/Grimes, McCain/Edgecombe 2 deep ensures there is always offensive firepower on the court with an adequate amount of defense.
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft (2) 

Post#2074 » by Black Mage » Fri Jun 13, 2025 1:52 am

Negrodamus wrote:
PhillyFan11 wrote:I personally have no interest in drafting VJ at 3. He almost reminds of a Caris Lavert type player…he’s talented enough to give you 15-20 ppg in the future, but does he have any 1 skill set that stands out enough to make him a real difference maker? I have serious doubts

But the real question is…if they do go VJ at 3 would they still commit to Grimes long term if/when he has other suitors?


This is a fair questioning of VJ (who isn’t even my favorite player in this draft). Caris is an interesting comparison and a guy I was high on in his draft.

I think they sign Grimes regardless. Having a Maxey/Grimes, McCain/Edgecombe 2 deep ensures there is always offensive firepower on the court with an adequate amount of defense.


I think people need to take into account the rapid growth he's displayed coming out of college into FIBA and then through college. Not only do we have reports of coaches seeing him being able to assimilate what he watches or is taught into actual results, but even without coaching he's picking things up and developing his game at an accelerated pace than what you'd normally see.

The handle is a concern; but I do think defensive awareness, being locked in more on defense off-ball and the pull-up are all within reason for him to develop.

I'm fine with Ace or VJ at 3. Harper if in play is my first pick.
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft (2) 

Post#2075 » by 76ciology » Fri Jun 13, 2025 2:23 am

Negrodamus wrote:I'm actually a round or two behind you: thinking more Ant Edwards with VJ, not Mathurin.


I think Edgecombe’s “don’t overthink it” upside is more comparable to Ja Morant than Anthony Edwards. They’re similar in size, and like Ja, Edgecombe has a natural ability to get to that in-between area around the free-throw line, whether it’s in FIBA or at Baylor. His halfcourt unassisted scoring numbers back that up.. 82 field goals made, with only 19% assisted. The key difference is that Edgecombe isn’t as refined yet in his footwork or scoring touch in that zone.

He’s the archetype ex-Magic GM Rob Hennigan would like to bet. He believe this archetype is just one leap in development away from becoming the next Westbrook, who didn’t flash much offense in college, or Oladipo, who was below average for a #1 his first four years. The idea is.. if you’ve got the motor, play bigger than your size, have functional explosive athleticism, and just enough guard skills, then all it takes is the right situation and a development leap to unlock star potential.

How hard can it be? You got a big playing drop when you run a 2 man game and all you have to do is to take a lightly contested middy or pivot your way with upfakes into a decent shot or use your explosiveness to finish at the rim. Sure, non-guards can do it too, but guards have a natural quickness advantage. And if you don’t play drop, those explosive guards can just blow right by you.

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Re: 2025 NBA Draft (2) 

Post#2076 » by 76ciology » Fri Jun 13, 2025 2:40 am

Negrodamus wrote:The distance from VJ’s stats to Ant’s college stats is light years closer than Ace’s to Durant’s.


Statistically, comparing Ant to VJ is a lot like comparing Derik Queen to CMB, VJ and Queen have the stronger overall numbers, but Ant and Queen are the superior scorers. And since scoring is king, you’d lean toward the better scorer. Still, there’s always going to be a sizable group of stats-driven evaluators who will favor VJ over Ant because of the statistical profile.
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft (2) 

Post#2077 » by Negrodamus » Fri Jun 13, 2025 2:53 am

76ciology wrote:
Negrodamus wrote:The distance from VJ’s stats to Ant’s college stats is light years closer than Ace’s to Durant’s.


Statistically, comparing Ant to VJ is a lot like comparing Derik Queen to CMB, VJ and Queen have the stronger overall numbers, but Ant and Queen are the superior scorers. And since scoring is king, you’d lean toward the better scorer. Still, there’s always going to be a sizable group of stats-driven evaluators who will favor VJ over Ant because of the statistical profile.


Yea, I mean there's a reason Ant went #1 overall. In VJ's FIBA tourney, his per-40 points was 24ppg. I know that's a limited sample size, but I think there's more scoring chops in there than most people expect.

Edit: was also the leading scorer of EYBL his junior year (17.3ppg) against other big time prospects from last year and this year's draft. Was basically the same top 10 scorer with Tre his senior year (15.7ppg).
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft (2) 

Post#2078 » by M2J » Fri Jun 13, 2025 3:09 am

Stanford wrote:
M2J wrote:He's the reason Philly is open to moving up to 2. They both would take Ace at 2. I've been saying it since my first post in these draft threads


Are you seriously suggesting that the Sixers would trade up to two to take Ace Bailey?


Yes.... Because there's 0 chance they'd consider trading up when they already have Maxey, McCain and Grimes. And they can shoot, where that Harper kid cannot.

Ace fits any team. Always choose the guy that can star off ball and defend
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft (2) 

Post#2079 » by OleSchool » Fri Jun 13, 2025 3:09 am

Arsenal wrote:
okboomer wrote:Id love Harper though I just dont see the Spurs not taking him.

Mik317 wrote:again treating VJ's handle like its Thad Young tier is nuts to me. Doesn't show that way on tape at all.

Cause it's not. It needs work but it's overblown imo. His finishing inside the paint is his biggest issue to me. Also doesnt go left at all really at yet. Though those things should improve with more work.


VJ is supposed to be a lead guard. That requires excellent handles. He has self-proclaimed himself a point guard after all.

Just being "better than Thad Young" tier handles is not anywhere close to good enough for a lead guard.


VJ is going to be a sg/sf not a pg
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Re: 2025 NBA Draft (2) 

Post#2080 » by M2J » Fri Jun 13, 2025 3:11 am

OleSchool wrote:
M2J wrote:
Negrodamus wrote:
Sorry, meant Ace.



For someone so numbers based in your decision, you have it all wrong.

Ace is poor shooting off the dribble line 25% from 3 and 35% from 2 regarding pull ups specifically.

He's about 40% from 3 on the catch. 44% shooting anywhere on the catch (2 and 3...) and that's actually where most his shots came. He's a ready made player on that realm for a talented team.... As a movement shooter that also is great transition finisher and cuts to the basket. Plus he can rebound, get steals and blocks at a great rate.

He's the reason Philly is open to moving up to 2. They both would take Ace at 2. I've been saying it since my first post in these draft threads


I'm confused, so we want to move to 2 to take Ace instead if SAS taking Ace at 2???

If Ace was so valuable to SAS then why would they even have a discussion with us about moving down and leaving this awesome prospect to us?

I'm sure Morey also called Dallas about the number 1 but they probably hung up on him Lol


What?

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