2025 NBA Draft (2)

[M2J]

For someone so numbers based in your decision, you have it all wrong.

Ace is poor shooting off the dribble line 25% from 3 and 35% from 2 regarding pull ups specifically.

He's about 40% from 3 on the catch. 44% shooting anywhere on the catch (2 and 3...) and that's actually where most his shots came. He's a ready made player on that realm for a talented team.... As a movement shooter that also is great transition finisher and cuts to the basket. Plus he can rebound, get steals and blocks at a great rate.

He's the reason Philly is open to moving up to 2. They both would take Ace at 2. I've been saying it since my first post in these draft threads

So he's a C&S 3&D player? I don't think we need to spend the 3rd pick on someone like that.

I think he´s a 3&D player in the first couple of years of his career, with potential to be so much more than that, if he improves. Thats why so much of us want to draft him. I saw a nice post on the draft board about him, that i agree:

Use him as a bigger Klay Thompson = a movement shooter & spot up weapon. Limit his handling to attacking closeouts. I think he could provide excellent value in a simplified role where he's not tasked to be an on-ball shot creator until he expands his handle.

I think Mikal Bridges is a good model for him to follow early in his career. Focus on defense and being a great catch and shoot guy for now, but still have the freedom to hunt a mindrange shot in the right scenarios. That would be my vision and scale his usage up from there once he is mastering that role.

That´s why i think he´s a special pick. If he plays in this simplified role, he will be a useful player even if he doesnt develop his handle, passing and gets stronger. But if he does improve, it´s a home run pick. I think he has a good floor, with potential to have a great ceiling too.

He's a 3 and D movement shooter. That is very different than your typical catch and shoot player, especially at 6'9 You can feature a movement shooter, you can create offense based on a movement shooter that gets other guys open without him even touching the ball. Nurse's system allows that, as does the Spurs'.

He's also as I initially quoted from Negrodamus an isolation mid range scorer.... One of the greatest I've seen come out of college

[Black Mage]

I listened to the Givony and Duncan cast and couple interesting takeaways.

Harper: both are concerned about the shot and it needing to be retooled. Givony does not feel it is broken, just needs to be cleaned up. Also feels Harper's got work to do on the defensive side.

Ace: Biggest thing from this was Givony saying he watched Ace in September/October at Rutgers practices and it was clear the degree to which Ace lacked basketball knowledge. He went back in the winter/spring of this year and saw a significant development in basketball knowledge and awareness. The interesting thing is even with Givony recognizing the decreased knowledge of the game, he remains firmly on Ace at 3 because of the rapid growth.

I have mixed feelings on this, on one hand I am not surprised and even said his decision to stay in a public high school than get into one of those boot camp private basketball mills hurt his core fundamentals. On the other hand, Ace appears to have demonstrated both a natural ability to pickup the game (similar to VJ); but also the willingness to learn and work on improving. For example, coming down the stretch of the season Ace did start improving his assists and making some advanced reads and passes.

For those against Ace, it definitely reaffirms your belief that he's rawer than you'd like him to be for a Top 3 pick. To me, it's going to come down to whether Morey and the coaching staff believe he's a natural talent that can pick up concepts naturally and through experience or is his lack of knowledge a sign of a lower IQ. I don't think Bailey could do some of the things he did and have some of the skills he displayed if he had a low IQ. In Morey I'll trust.

VJ: Givony's 4 but not Nate (he has not watched Bahamas). Givony saw a lot of VJ in H.S. Givony bases a lot of his faith in VJ on his Olympic play and less on Baylor. Felt he was misused to start season. Thinks VJ has a natural feel for the game and could play some PG making simple reads. Felt VJ lost some defensive intensity as he focused on developing his offense. Honestly, it wasn't as upbeat positive as I was expecting. Duncan doesn't like the shooting, ok C&S but no pull up.

Duncan as Fears at 4...moving on.

Tre: Givony hates his defense. Re-iterated Tre's workouts offensively are off the charts. Focus and driven to be great; but needs to realize defense has to improve which he hasn't shown yet. Givony called him a "total loser" for how he played on defense.

[M2J]

Also, I guarantee you if 76ers trade up and select Harper, and they won't.... McCain is included in that trade

[76ciology]

He's the reason Philly is open to moving up to 2. They both would take Ace at 2. I've been saying it since my first post in these draft threads

Are you seriously suggesting that the Sixers would trade up to two to take Ace Bailey?

Yes.... Because there's 0 chance they'd consider trading up when they already have Maxey, McCain and Grimes. And they can shoot, where that Harper kid cannot.

Ace fits any team. Always choose the guy that can star off ball and defend

Teams are leaning more toward guard-heavy lineups in 2025, the game has evolved. The Spurs already have four wings in Vassell, Keldon, Sochan, and Barnes. Even Wemby often plays like a wing that he often plays with a C (imagine how clunky it is to have Bailey-Wemby-Center). What they really need is guard play. The argument against drafting Harper is that he may require too much on-ball usage, which could take touches away from Fox or Wemby.

[Mik317]

He's the reason Philly is open to moving up to 2. They both would take Ace at 2. I've been saying it since my first post in these draft threads

Are you seriously suggesting that the Sixers would trade up to two to take Ace Bailey?

Yes.... Because there's 0 chance they'd consider trading up when they already have Maxey, McCain and Grimes. And they can shoot, where that Harper kid cannot.

Ace fits any team. Always choose the guy that can star off ball and defend

....but the stats say he can't star off ball and defend yet.

You guys use hyperbole and strawmen to put down other prospects and yet live in fantasy world with Ace lol.

as for Harper, he is not a great shooter atm for sure but he is capable of getting into the paint...something we severely lack AND it allows Maxey, Grimes and McCain to play more off ball which is their strengths...

again I am nots acting like Ace is the worst player ever like some....as I get the idea but the reality at this very moment is not what you guys are selling imo.

[Sixersftw]

Maybe I'm **** up cause I just don't see the superstar potential with VJ. I see a good glue guy and that's still fine to draft that guy but these projections feel a bit much.

It's kinda feeling like the Ace = PG/Durant stuff.

[76ciology]

Also, I guarantee you if 76ers trade up and select Harper, and they won't.... McCain is included in that trade

Harper fits well with McCain, Maxey and Grimes. Harper and Grimes can also play some 3 in today’s basketball.

[Black Mage]

Are you seriously suggesting that the Sixers would trade up to two to take Ace Bailey?

Yes.... Because there's 0 chance they'd consider trading up when they already have Maxey, McCain and Grimes. And they can shoot, where that Harper kid cannot.

Ace fits any team. Always choose the guy that can star off ball and defend

....but the stats say he can't star off ball and defend yet.

You guys use hyperbole and strawmen to put down other prospects and yet live in fantasy world with Ace lol.

as for Harper, he is not a great shooter atm for sure but he is capable of getting into the paint...something we severely lack AND it allows Maxey, Grimes and McCain to play more off ball which is their strengths...

again I am nots acting like Ace is the worst player ever like some....as I get the idea but the reality at this very moment is not what you guys are selling imo.

You gotta have more than one ballhandler as well. The days of a single PG handling it all game long are gone. There's so much more movement that you just gotta get a breather to guys. You could see Maxey's 3 ball last year started to die on him because his legs were getting tired having to run the offense every possession.

Plus getting a ballhandler that gets to the rim like Harper can forces the defense to start running around wearing it out over time.

[M2J]

Are you seriously suggesting that the Sixers would trade up to two to take Ace Bailey?

Yes.... Because there's 0 chance they'd consider trading up when they already have Maxey, McCain and Grimes. And they can shoot, where that Harper kid cannot.

Ace fits any team. Always choose the guy that can star off ball and defend

....but the stats say he can't star off ball and defend yet.

You guys use hyperbole and strawmen to put down other prospects and yet live in fantasy world with Ace lol.

as for Harper, he is not a great shooter atm for sure but he is capable of getting into the paint...something we severely lack AND it allows Maxey, Grimes and McCain to play more off ball which is their strengths...

again I am nots acting like Ace is the worst player ever like some....as I get the idea but the reality at this very moment is not what you guys are selling imo.

I don't know why you believe that. Yes they do.

He doesn't dribble a lot. Was efficient and starred off ball for Harper, who cannot.... For a team that needed spacing. On a terrible team, the defense was way worse without him. He's one of the better athletes in this draft, has shown he can defend the perimeter and help protect the paint with stats that highlight that with a 4.1% block rate and good steal rate. Also got 2 offensive rebounds a game and a 17.5 DEFENSIVE rebound%.

All these stats about him being inefficient are find situational stats that don't matter. He is inefficient getting to the rim by himself.... He's very efficient finishing at the rim off the pass and in transition. 61% overall...71% in transition at the rim. Like 35% in half court situations, but he doesn't get there much in half court as we know is a flaw.

Ace is exactly what the 76ers just maxed Paul George to be for this team.

Also, I have refused to put down any other prospects personally. I think this draft is awesome, but I think 2 person has the highest ceiling in the draft and 2 can fit anywhere. The 2 star wings... Cooper and Ace

[Phillybul]

Trading away the Clippers pick in this draft would be beyond idiotic. Rutgers had two of the "Top 3" players and didn't even make the tournament. Ben Simmons vibes there...

Don't panic, sit tight, and let other teams overreact and trade WAY too much for a player with high bust potential.

I'd focus on finding a way to move PG to get away from his contract and add quality depth at the wing. Also to add backups that aren't almost 40 years old...

Rutgers lost their center to the transfer portal and didn’t replace him. Their roster was made of over half being freshman outside of Harper/Bailey. They lacked an interior presence badly. They lacked experience. They bombed the transfer portal to bring in polished players. Defensively they were horrific as a team (again losing that legit center hurt). They lacked an identity. There were a ton of factors into why Rutgers didn’t make the tournament besides having 2 top 3 picks (who were freshman). Not many talk about it. The blame is placed solely on those 2. And then Ben Simmons at LSU is attached to them to question if they are winners etc A bit unfair. Ant man didn’t make the tournament either. He went #1. And is coming off back to back WCF appearances by age 23.

[Black Mage]

Maybe I'm **** up cause I just don't see the superstar potential with VJ. I see a good glue guy and that's still fine to draft that guy but these projections feel a bit much.

It's kinda feeling like the Ace = PG/Durant stuff.

Today's NBA isn't about guard heavy or wing heavy or 5-out. It's about stressing the opponents defense and forcing the "rotation game" leading to a break down defensively and either a wide open 3 pt shot, bucket at the basket or a foul. The Pacers have been able to wear down even the vaunted OKC defense because their style and players are able to put constant stress on the defense.

Givony noted that teams love VJ b/c they feel his off-court outlier intangibles make them feel confident he reaches as near to full potential as any prospect in the class. They may not know what VJ improves on specifically, but they're confident it will happen. Imagine what a menace VJ becomes on offense if he develops a step-back 3 or a pull up shot in the midrange. Combined with his speed/athleticism and driving ability and it puts an immense amount of pressure on the defense. I could see offsetting some of VJ's handle issues by using DHO's to let him get a bit of steam and then explode around the DHO driving to the basket.

I can see star potential and even superstar potential b/c if he gets one of the above traits and hits his defensive peak that's a 2-way superstar.

[M2J]

Yes.... Because there's 0 chance they'd consider trading up when they already have Maxey, McCain and Grimes. And they can shoot, where that Harper kid cannot.

Ace fits any team. Always choose the guy that can star off ball and defend

....but the stats say he can't star off ball and defend yet.

You guys use hyperbole and strawmen to put down other prospects and yet live in fantasy world with Ace lol.

as for Harper, he is not a great shooter atm for sure but he is capable of getting into the paint...something we severely lack AND it allows Maxey, Grimes and McCain to play more off ball which is their strengths...

again I am nots acting like Ace is the worst player ever like some....as I get the idea but the reality at this very moment is not what you guys are selling imo.

You gotta have more than one ballhandler as well. The days of a single PG handling it all game long are gone. There's so much more movement that you just gotta get a breather to guys. You could see Maxey's 3 ball last year started to die on him because his legs were getting tired having to run the offense every possession.

Plus getting a ballhandler that gets to the rim like Harper can forces the defense to start running around wearing it out over time.

Maxey and McCain can play point.

You guys think it's coincidence that yesterday it comes out that the Spurs aren't 100% taking Harper, and the 76ers moving up comes out the same day. It's all posturing... I'm sure. I don't think it's wise for Morey to give up anything when they can generally use either player and just make decisions on who to keep later. But that was no coincidence

[Black Mage]

....but the stats say he can't star off ball and defend yet.

You guys use hyperbole and strawmen to put down other prospects and yet live in fantasy world with Ace lol.

as for Harper, he is not a great shooter atm for sure but he is capable of getting into the paint...something we severely lack AND it allows Maxey, Grimes and McCain to play more off ball which is their strengths...

again I am nots acting like Ace is the worst player ever like some....as I get the idea but the reality at this very moment is not what you guys are selling imo.

You gotta have more than one ballhandler as well. The days of a single PG handling it all game long are gone. There's so much more movement that you just gotta get a breather to guys. You could see Maxey's 3 ball last year started to die on him because his legs were getting tired having to run the offense every possession.

Plus getting a ballhandler that gets to the rim like Harper can forces the defense to start running around wearing it out over time.

Maxey and McCain can play point.

You guys think it's coincidence that yesterday it comes out that the Spurs aren't 100% taking Harper, and the 76ers moving up comes out the same day. It's all posturing... I'm sure. I don't think it's wise for Morey to give up anything when they can generally use either player and just make decisions on who to keep later. But that was no coincidence

I don't think anyone right now can determine with any certainty if the two smaller guards could legitimately play together in a playoff setting. Offensively they'd be fine, defensively is a whole other question. Harper fits next to all 3 main guards that we might have on the roster. It also lets you mix and match defensively between who Grimes or Harper runs with. Opponent have a faster but weak guard? Grimes. Stronger/slower? Harper.

[76ciology]

[x]

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=bJcUtOCSwzTqqyZgysWpbQ[/x]

[SixthStreet]

Why don't people care that Edgecombe is old? I think age in and of itself is a dis-qualifier for Morey. He's at least half a year older than all the other top freshman prospects other than Kon and Queen.

[MVP1992]

Spurs #2 & #14, for

Sixers #3 & LAC 2028 top 6 protected, Sixers 2031 unprotected(?), Drummond & Ricky Council (or Eric Gordon).

Sixers pick Harper & whoever is your best available/best fit @ 14 (Cedric Coward for example )

The below figures are from AI search. I haven't personally checked further:
Drummond + Gordon: Frees $2,630,600 in salary.
Drummond + Council: Frees $1,361,640 in salary.

Both options keep the Sixers above the cap but increase apron flexibility.

[Arsenal]

Why don't people care that Edgecombe is old? I think age in and of itself is a dis-qualifier for Morey. He's at least half a year older than all the other top freshman prospects other than Kon and Queen.

He’s more than one year older than fellow freshman Ace! If VJ was a sophomore as he and Kon should be, the hype wouldn’t be nearly as much.

But cherry pickers suddenly don’t care about such an important attribute as age when it comes to their favorites.

[Phillybul]

Why don't people care that Edgecombe is old? I think age in and of itself is a dis-qualifier for Morey. He's at least half a year older than all the other top freshman prospects other than Kon and Queen.

1/2 year is splitting hairs no?

[FireMorey]

2 for 3, LAC pick and Drummond, which would allow the Sixers to re-sign Yabu seems fair.

[okboomer]

Tyrese was older than VJ will be when he was drafted. The Spurs should just take Harper and figure out Castle/Fox later.