2025 Offseason Season Thread Vol. 1

[Umbooki]

The FO seems content to squeeze out every last bit that they can from this build, so I wouldn’t be surprised if we go hard for KD.

It’s whatever. I just want fun HEAT basketball.

[Daffy]

I think people are really selling KD short for what he would do to this roster. He slides Bam and Herro into their natural fits as #2 and #3 options. You go into FA and find a cheap bargain scorer off the bench like a Bruce Brown, Gary Trent etc it helps our offense tremendously and in turn a lot of those leads we blew we don't. We have enough defenders. We need a shot in the arm of offensive players and Spo to also get more creative with the offense.

Ware will be another year developed and in the gym added muscle. The Bam and Ware pairing has potential to terrorize teams defensively.

[Crazy-Canuck]

If kd wants to win, Miami isn't a likely destination even if in the east. He's a frontrunner. But also smart to learn from his mistakes. The suns floundered due to the lack of elite role play talent. Beal, book, and himself might work in 2k, but not on an NBA court. Houston, the spurs, and the wolves offer him multiple 2 way defenders around him. He's not interested in chasing athletic perimeter players on defense anymore.

Miami inclusion is likely to cash out for max dollars or leverage. However, I do think the heat have trade pieces to intrigue the suns' plan to build around book.

KD just watched Indiana waltz into the Finals out East. He's seeing a Heat team that has been close, but couldn't get over the hump and had a down year this year. The Celtics are about to blow it up. The Knicks just fired their head coach. The Cavs are a good regular season side that can't get over the hump in the postseason...compare that to the dog fight out West and it looks pretty appealing.

I get that the east is much weaker. And that always brings me back to herro. People are putting him into that haliburton tier, but I dont see it. They might be comparable basketball talents, but play vastly different roles. Guys like hali, trae, and even Brunson do more than just get buckets; they are the catalyst. Their lack of defense is worth covering for because they provide much more than a bucket. To me, herro is a pure bucket. I heat the argument that he's the perfect no.2. OK, how many no.2s get paid max dollars, need to be protected on defense, and provide very little outside of scoring? He is more cj McCollumthan a dame. . Now, how many have every won with this type of archetype as a top 2 player? None? Poole might be the closest, but he was only starting in the regular season, then moved to the bench to protect defense once the playoffs started. Plus he was on a rookie deal.

So, extend kd, then extend herro, now bams extension kicks in. That's what? Almost 180M in 3 players?

Again, this is ONLY if the goal is to contend. If they goal is to win some regular season games and hope to get lucky, then sure.

[VaDe255]

I think people are really selling KD short for what he would do to this roster. He slides Bam and Herro into their natural fits as #2 and #3 options. You go into FA and find a cheap bargain scorer off the bench like a Bruce Brown, Gary Trent etc it helps our offense tremendously and in turn a lot of those leads we blew we don't. We have enough defenders. We need a shot in the arm of offensive players and Spo to also get more creative with the offense.

Ware will be another year developed and in the gym added muscle. The Bam and Ware pairing has potential to terrorize teams defensively.

We're not selling KD short just being realistic about what he actually brings to this roster.

KD is still an elite scorer, but he’s much more of a play finisher than a creator of advantages, especially at this stage of his career.

The Heat’s offensive issues often stem from predictability and a lack of downhill pressure. Adding KD doesn’t fix that on its own. You’d still be relying on Herro and Davion to bend defenses and create advantages, with KD getting his touches mostly in the mid-post, isolation vs switches, second-side actions, or as a pick-and-pop/ghost screen threat.

The likely roles would look like:

KD – elite scorer, draws most defensive attention, thrives in post-ups, isos, off-ball actions
Herro – primary initiator, PnR handler, DHO trigger, transition lead
Davion – secondary handler, floor spacer, connector
Bam – playmaking hub, DHO facilitator, short roll passer, connector
Ware – rim runner, lob threat, clean-up guy, vertical spacer

This is essentially the same role KD played in Golden State, high impact, but not running the offense.

To me, that still leaves Herro in a role as a full time initiator rather than a play finisher. A lot of the Heat’s playoff success would depend on how far Herro can go in that role and how much Davion can help, because you can’t run KD isolations all game and expect that to carry a playoff offense against elite defenses, it's certainly a lot better than watching Bam trying to do that, but might not nearly be enough.

[Bishop45]

The FO seems content to squeeze out every last bit that they can from this build, so I wouldn’t be surprised if we go hard for KD.

It’s whatever. I just want fun HEAT basketball.

a functional offense, some actual shot creators and makers on this team, while not taking any crazy gambles-- that's all I care about. Only one team wins every year, every thing else is semantics, midas whale have a team worth watching

[3ammy3uck3ts]

I think people are really selling KD short for what he would do to this roster. He slides Bam and Herro into their natural fits as #2 and #3 options. You go into FA and find a cheap bargain scorer off the bench like a Bruce Brown, Gary Trent etc it helps our offense tremendously and in turn a lot of those leads we blew we don't. We have enough defenders. We need a shot in the arm of offensive players and Spo to also get more creative with the offense.

Ware will be another year developed and in the gym added muscle. The Bam and Ware pairing has potential to terrorize teams defensively.

We're not selling KD short just being realistic about what he actually brings to this roster.

KD is still an elite scorer, but he’s much more of a play finisher than a creator of advantages, especially at this stage of his career.

The Heat’s offensive issues often stem from predictability and a lack of downhill pressure. Adding KD doesn’t fix that on its own. You’d still be relying on Herro and Davion to bend defenses and create advantages, with KD getting his touches mostly in the mid-post, isolation vs switches, second-side actions, or as a pick-and-pop/ghost screen threat.

The likely roles would look like:

KD – elite scorer, draws most defensive attention, thrives in post-ups, isos, off-ball actions
Herro – primary initiator, PnR handler, DHO trigger, transition lead
Davion – secondary handler, floor spacer, connector
Bam – playmaking hub, DHO facilitator, short roll passer, connector
Ware – rim runner, lob threat, clean-up guy, vertical spacer

This is essentially the same role KD played in Golden State, high impact, but not running the offense.

To me, that still leaves Herro in a role as a full time initiator rather than a play finisher. A lot of the Heat’s playoff success would depend on how far Herro can go in that role and how much Davion can help, because you can’t run KD isolations all game and expect that to carry a playoff offense against elite defenses, it's certainly a lot better than watching Bam trying to do that, but might not nearly be enough.

We can still make additional moves/signings. Surely they don’t want the ball in Herros hands to initiate much of anything after what they saw in the playoffs out of him again.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Read on Twitter

[3ammy3uck3ts]

If kd wants to win, Miami isn't a likely destination even if in the east. He's a frontrunner. But also smart to learn from his mistakes. The suns floundered due to the lack of elite role play talent. Beal, book, and himself might work in 2k, but not on an NBA court. Houston, the spurs, and the wolves offer him multiple 2 way defenders around him. He's not interested in chasing athletic perimeter players on defense anymore.

Miami inclusion is likely to cash out for max dollars or leverage. However, I do think the heat have trade pieces to intrigue the suns' plan to build around book.

KD just watched Indiana waltz into the Finals out East. He's seeing a Heat team that has been close, but couldn't get over the hump and had a down year this year. The Celtics are about to blow it up. The Knicks just fired their head coach. The Cavs are a good regular season side that can't get over the hump in the postseason...compare that to the dog fight out West and it looks pretty appealing.

I get that the east is much weaker. And that always brings me back to herro. People are putting him into that haliburton tier, but I dont see it. They might be comparable basketball talents, but play vastly different roles. Guys like hali, trae, and even Brunson do more than just get buckets; they are the catalyst. Their lack of defense is worth covering for because they provide much more than a bucket. To me, herro is a pure bucket. I heat the argument that he's the perfect no.2. OK, how many no.2s get paid max dollars, need to be protected on defense, and provide very little outside of scoring? He is more cj McCollumthan a dame. . Now, how many have every won with this type of archetype as a top 2 player? None? Poole might be the closest, but he was only starting in the regular season, then moved to the bench to protect defense once the playoffs started. Plus he was on a rookie deal.

So, extend kd, then extend herro, now bams extension kicks in. That's what? Almost 180M in 3 players?

Again, this is ONLY if the goal is to contend. If they goal is to win some regular season games and hope to get lucky, then sure.

Herro is nowhere near Haliburton, I’m not sure where you’re seeing them being put in the same tier. Twitter? I agree if you want to truly win you’ve got to get off Herro for someone who can play both ends of the floor in the playoffs

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Read on Twitter

[greg4012]

I think people are really selling KD short for what he would do to this roster. He slides Bam and Herro into their natural fits as #2 and #3 options. You go into FA and find a cheap bargain scorer off the bench like a Bruce Brown, Gary Trent etc it helps our offense tremendously and in turn a lot of those leads we blew we don't. We have enough defenders. We need a shot in the arm of offensive players and Spo to also get more creative with the offense.

Ware will be another year developed and in the gym added muscle. The Bam and Ware pairing has potential to terrorize teams defensively.

We're not selling KD short just being realistic about what he actually brings to this roster.

KD is still an elite scorer, but he’s much more of a play finisher than a creator of advantages, especially at this stage of his career.

The Heat’s offensive issues often stem from predictability and a lack of downhill pressure. Adding KD doesn’t fix that on its own. You’d still be relying on Herro and Davion to bend defenses and create advantages, with KD getting his touches mostly in the mid-post, isolation vs switches, second-side actions, or as a pick-and-pop/ghost screen threat.

The likely roles would look like:

KD – elite scorer, draws most defensive attention, thrives in post-ups, isos, off-ball actions
Herro – primary initiator, PnR handler, DHO trigger, transition lead
Davion – secondary handler, floor spacer, connector
Bam – playmaking hub, DHO facilitator, short roll passer, connector
Ware – rim runner, lob threat, clean-up guy, vertical spacer

This is essentially the same role KD played in Golden State, high impact, but not running the offense.

To me, that still leaves Herro in a role as a full time initiator rather than a play finisher. A lot of the Heat’s playoff success would depend on how far Herro can go in that role and how much Davion can help, because you can’t run KD isolations all game and expect that to carry a playoff offense against elite defenses, it's certainly a lot better than watching Bam trying to do that, but might not nearly be enough.

Reasonable breakdown. Still underselling some potential dynamics IMO.

Add paint penetrator to Davion's skillset as that is one of his greatest strengths. He's not as dynamic as lead guards at creating off of it (more of a one-read guy off of it) but he absolutely helps add to that dynamic. He doesn't fully collapse a defense, but he can draw help by beating his man into the paint and getting 2 feet in the paint. He needs to further progress on his reads and playmaking once there, but there were signs of positive impact on that front. 29% of Davion's FGA with Miami were at the rim last season. Compare that with Herro hitting his career high at 13.7%. Higher than most guards in the NBA. It's not a wholesale solution, but an offseason integrated (and assuming he can keep up his level of play--which is a big assumption) should help make that more effective.

By being on the court, KD creates advantage. He has his entire career and that has not changed. Not only does it result in a lot less extra attention and defense collapsing on Herro and Bam but it actually has the opposite effect. Dating back 15 years, KD has never been part of a NBA team that had an ORTG worse than 14.

Adding KD is not a cure all as we all know Miami's offense would be greatly benefited by adding a real floor general. But every offense has elements that it still needs to be further optimized. I'd expect any KD move to be paired with another complementary transaction that further moves the needle on that front.

[greg4012]

Read on Twitter

Just get this man enough lower body and core strength to not get consistently pushed off his spots on both ends of the floor and the resulting impact will be exponential.

So many easy avenues for improved impact with Kel'el and he's already a positive.

[SA37]

I think people are really selling KD short for what he would do to this roster. He slides Bam and Herro into their natural fits as #2 and #3 options. You go into FA and find a cheap bargain scorer off the bench like a Bruce Brown, Gary Trent etc it helps our offense tremendously and in turn a lot of those leads we blew we don't. We have enough defenders. We need a shot in the arm of offensive players and Spo to also get more creative with the offense.

Ware will be another year developed and in the gym added muscle. The Bam and Ware pairing has potential to terrorize teams defensively.

This.

Durant is still a top-10 player in the NBA and this gets hand-waved away in favor of "MoAaArRr MiNuTeS 4 LaRRSSooon and dRu". Why? "cUz 37". It's insanity.

A lot of what Miami could do next depends on whether a deal for Durant is centered around Wiggins/Robinson/Jaquez or Rozier/Robinson/Jaquez, but Miami has historically been good at getting the Chris Pauls, Bruce Browns, Gary Trents...etc to take less.

Boston will be a weaker team next year, and Indiana and NY are beatable teams. Philadelphia will likely be healthier and very tough, but Miami can give all these teams a run for their money if Miami gets Durant and all the youngins play as well in reality is they do in the collective RealGM Heat board posters' fantasies.

IMO, if Miami gets Durant, the Heat will put the full-court-press on Chris Paul. If Paul won't come, Miami could look to Tyus Jones, Denis Schroder, or Tre Jones. Trent Jr, Bruce Brown, Tim Hardaway Jr, Eric Gordon, Seth Curry, are targets Miami could revisit if Burks can't be brought back.

Anderson / Jovic / Rozier / Highsmith could be shopped for an upgrade at a position of need, basically bench scoring.

If Miami somehow got Durant and added Paul and Brook Lopez +, that would be an ideal outcome for a 2-year run.

Lopez / Ware / Love
Adebayo / Jovic / Anderson
Durant / Highsmith
Herro / Burks / Larsson
Paul / Mitchell or Tyus Jones (?)

[greg4012]

I think people are really selling KD short for what he would do to this roster. He slides Bam and Herro into their natural fits as #2 and #3 options. You go into FA and find a cheap bargain scorer off the bench like a Bruce Brown, Gary Trent etc it helps our offense tremendously and in turn a lot of those leads we blew we don't. We have enough defenders. We need a shot in the arm of offensive players and Spo to also get more creative with the offense.

Ware will be another year developed and in the gym added muscle. The Bam and Ware pairing has potential to terrorize teams defensively.

This.

Durant is still a top-10 player in the NBA and this gets hand-waved away in favor of "MoAaArRr MiNuTeS 4 LaRRSSooon and dRu". Why? "cUz 37". It's insanity.

A lot of what Miami could do next depends on whether a deal for Durant is centered around Wiggins/Robinson/Jaquez or Rozier/Robinson/Jaquez, but Miami has historically been good at getting the Chris Pauls, Bruce Browns, Gary Trents...etc to take less.

Boston will be a weaker team next year, and Indiana and NY are beatable teams. Philadelphia will likely be healthier and very tough, but Miami can give all these teams a run for their money if Miami gets Durant and all the youngins play as well in reality is they do in the collective RealGM Heat board posters' fantasies.

IMO, if Miami gets Durant, the Heat will put the full-court-press on Chris Paul. If Paul won't come, Miami could look to Tyus Jones, Denis Schroder, or Tre Jones. Trent Jr, Bruce Brown, Tim Hardaway Jr, Eric Gordon, Seth Curry, are targets Miami could revisit if Burks can't be brought back.

Anderson / Jovic / Rozier / Highsmith could be shopped for an upgrade at a position of need, basically bench scoring.

If Miami somehow got Durant and added Paul and Brook Lopez +, that would be an ideal outcome for a 2-year run.

Lopez / Ware / Love
Adebayo / Jovic / Anderson
Durant / Highsmith
Herro / Burks / Larsson
Paul / Mitchell or Tyus Jones (?)

Generally agree.

While I still don't expect Miami to end up with Durant, it's a fun topic to explore the bball dynamics. If Miami can pull it off, a second move will be a priority. The avenues to do it will likely be (1) a second trade with the expiring Terry contract plus... and/or (2) bargain hunting for a vet min.

On point 1, while I've generally dismissed any Demar Derozan buzz, it might just make real sense if its in pairing with a Durant deal and Sacramento just wants to get off the multiple years remaining on Derozan's deal to instead get an expiring. Derozan is a flawed player and isn't a great defender, but he still does a bit of everything and has plus positional size and versatility. Derozan has had playmaking roles throughout his career when called upon.

This is kind of fascinating:

Each of the past 5 seasons, Derozan has been top 20 in the NBA in points per possession as a pick and roll ballhandler (7th this season and 9th last season). He has been over 1 ppp each of these past 5 seasons ( over 5 possessions per game in each of these seasons). Even more interesting, KD has been above 1 point per possession in 4 of the past 5 seasons (#2 in the NBA in 2023 and #4 in the NBA in 2022).

Point Derozan is kind of a thing in a part-time function as he does some of his best work on the ball.

A lot of interesting possibilities with a core of Durant, Bam, Herro, Derozan, Ware, Mitchell with support from Larsson, Highsmith, Anderson, etc.

I can dig this:

Mitchell - Vet PG
Herro - Larsson
Durant - Derozan - Highsmith
Bam - Derozan - Anderson
Ware - Bam

[VaDe255]

I think people are really selling KD short for what he would do to this roster. He slides Bam and Herro into their natural fits as #2 and #3 options. You go into FA and find a cheap bargain scorer off the bench like a Bruce Brown, Gary Trent etc it helps our offense tremendously and in turn a lot of those leads we blew we don't. We have enough defenders. We need a shot in the arm of offensive players and Spo to also get more creative with the offense.

Ware will be another year developed and in the gym added muscle. The Bam and Ware pairing has potential to terrorize teams defensively.

We're not selling KD short just being realistic about what he actually brings to this roster.

KD is still an elite scorer, but he’s much more of a play finisher than a creator of advantages, especially at this stage of his career.

The Heat’s offensive issues often stem from predictability and a lack of downhill pressure. Adding KD doesn’t fix that on its own. You’d still be relying on Herro and Davion to bend defenses and create advantages, with KD getting his touches mostly in the mid-post, isolation vs switches, second-side actions, or as a pick-and-pop/ghost screen threat.

The likely roles would look like:

KD – elite scorer, draws most defensive attention, thrives in post-ups, isos, off-ball actions
Herro – primary initiator, PnR handler, DHO trigger, transition lead
Davion – secondary handler, floor spacer, connector
Bam – playmaking hub, DHO facilitator, short roll passer, connector
Ware – rim runner, lob threat, clean-up guy, vertical spacer

This is essentially the same role KD played in Golden State, high impact, but not running the offense.

To me, that still leaves Herro in a role as a full time initiator rather than a play finisher. A lot of the Heat’s playoff success would depend on how far Herro can go in that role and how much Davion can help, because you can’t run KD isolations all game and expect that to carry a playoff offense against elite defenses, it's certainly a lot better than watching Bam trying to do that, but might not nearly be enough.

Reasonable breakdown. Still underselling some potential dynamics IMO.

Add paint penetrator to Davion's skillset as that is one of his greatest strengths. He's not as dynamic as lead guards at creating off of it (more of a one-read guy off of it) but he absolutely helps add to that dynamic. He doesn't fully collapse a defense, but he can draw help by beating his man into the paint and getting 2 feet in the paint. He needs to further progress on his reads and playmaking once there, but there were signs of positive impact on that front. 29% of Davion's FGA with Miami were at the rim last season. Compare that with Herro hitting his career high at 13.7%. Higher than most guards in the NBA. It's not a wholesale solution, but an offseason integrated (and assuming he can keep up his level of play--which is a big assumption) should help make that more effective.

By being on the court, KD creates advantage. He has his entire career and that has not changed. Not only does it result in a lot less extra attention and defense collapsing on Herro and Bam but it actually has the opposite effect. Dating back 15 years, KD has never been part of a NBA team that had an ORTG worse than 14.

Adding KD is not a cure all as we all know Miami's offense would be greatly benefited by adding a real floor general. But every offense has elements that it still needs to be further optimized. I'd expect any KD move to be paired with another complementary transaction that further moves the needle on that front.

Totally agree on Davion, he’s still flying under the radar and some here even see him as just a role player not worth overpaying.

That 29% at the rim stat is no joke. He gives Miami real rim pressure and already has the hardest part down: beating his man and forcing help. If he sharpens his reads after collapsing the defense, he could develop into a legit impactful initiator.

Defensively, he’s already close to elite at the point of attack. If the offense keeps trending up, Davion has a real shot at becoming a high impact two way guard and a key connector in this build.

[carnageta]

Read on Twitter

Tyler you're embarrassing me for all the times I have to defend you on this sub, bro. Come on

[greg4012]

We're not selling KD short just being realistic about what he actually brings to this roster.

KD is still an elite scorer, but he’s much more of a play finisher than a creator of advantages, especially at this stage of his career.

The Heat’s offensive issues often stem from predictability and a lack of downhill pressure. Adding KD doesn’t fix that on its own. You’d still be relying on Herro and Davion to bend defenses and create advantages, with KD getting his touches mostly in the mid-post, isolation vs switches, second-side actions, or as a pick-and-pop/ghost screen threat.

The likely roles would look like:

KD – elite scorer, draws most defensive attention, thrives in post-ups, isos, off-ball actions
Herro – primary initiator, PnR handler, DHO trigger, transition lead
Davion – secondary handler, floor spacer, connector
Bam – playmaking hub, DHO facilitator, short roll passer, connector
Ware – rim runner, lob threat, clean-up guy, vertical spacer

This is essentially the same role KD played in Golden State, high impact, but not running the offense.

To me, that still leaves Herro in a role as a full time initiator rather than a play finisher. A lot of the Heat’s playoff success would depend on how far Herro can go in that role and how much Davion can help, because you can’t run KD isolations all game and expect that to carry a playoff offense against elite defenses, it's certainly a lot better than watching Bam trying to do that, but might not nearly be enough.

Reasonable breakdown. Still underselling some potential dynamics IMO.

Add paint penetrator to Davion's skillset as that is one of his greatest strengths. He's not as dynamic as lead guards at creating off of it (more of a one-read guy off of it) but he absolutely helps add to that dynamic. He doesn't fully collapse a defense, but he can draw help by beating his man into the paint and getting 2 feet in the paint. He needs to further progress on his reads and playmaking once there, but there were signs of positive impact on that front. 29% of Davion's FGA with Miami were at the rim last season. Compare that with Herro hitting his career high at 13.7%. Higher than most guards in the NBA. It's not a wholesale solution, but an offseason integrated (and assuming he can keep up his level of play--which is a big assumption) should help make that more effective.

By being on the court, KD creates advantage. He has his entire career and that has not changed. Not only does it result in a lot less extra attention and defense collapsing on Herro and Bam but it actually has the opposite effect. Dating back 15 years, KD has never been part of a NBA team that had an ORTG worse than 14.

Adding KD is not a cure all as we all know Miami's offense would be greatly benefited by adding a real floor general. But every offense has elements that it still needs to be further optimized. I'd expect any KD move to be paired with another complementary transaction that further moves the needle on that front.

Totally agree on Davion, he’s still flying under the radar and some here even see him as just a role player not worth overpaying.

That 29% at the rim stat is no joke. He gives Miami real rim pressure and already has the hardest part down: beating his man and forcing help. If he sharpens his reads after collapsing the defense, he could develop into a legit impactful initiator.

Defensively, he’s already close to elite at the point of attack. If the offense keeps trending up, Davion has a real shot at becoming a high impact two way guard and a key connector in this build.

It's hard to fully buy into what Davion showed in Miami with his (1) 3 pt shooting with Miami and (2) his rim finishing during his stint with Miami compared to the rest of his career, but Miami may also just be empowering him and putting him in positions to succeed more than any prior stop. When you look at the teams in the Finals, the Pacers created depth largely from revitalizing young players that other teams gave up on early (Nesmith and Toppin, in particular; can also put McConnell in this bucket). Davion looks like a playoff player to me.

[VaDe255]

Reasonable breakdown. Still underselling some potential dynamics IMO.

Add paint penetrator to Davion's skillset as that is one of his greatest strengths. He's not as dynamic as lead guards at creating off of it (more of a one-read guy off of it) but he absolutely helps add to that dynamic. He doesn't fully collapse a defense, but he can draw help by beating his man into the paint and getting 2 feet in the paint. He needs to further progress on his reads and playmaking once there, but there were signs of positive impact on that front. 29% of Davion's FGA with Miami were at the rim last season. Compare that with Herro hitting his career high at 13.7%. Higher than most guards in the NBA. It's not a wholesale solution, but an offseason integrated (and assuming he can keep up his level of play--which is a big assumption) should help make that more effective.

By being on the court, KD creates advantage. He has his entire career and that has not changed. Not only does it result in a lot less extra attention and defense collapsing on Herro and Bam but it actually has the opposite effect. Dating back 15 years, KD has never been part of a NBA team that had an ORTG worse than 14.

Adding KD is not a cure all as we all know Miami's offense would be greatly benefited by adding a real floor general. But every offense has elements that it still needs to be further optimized. I'd expect any KD move to be paired with another complementary transaction that further moves the needle on that front.

Totally agree on Davion, he’s still flying under the radar and some here even see him as just a role player not worth overpaying.

That 29% at the rim stat is no joke. He gives Miami real rim pressure and already has the hardest part down: beating his man and forcing help. If he sharpens his reads after collapsing the defense, he could develop into a legit impactful initiator.

Defensively, he’s already close to elite at the point of attack. If the offense keeps trending up, Davion has a real shot at becoming a high impact two way guard and a key connector in this build.

It's hard to fully buy into what Davion showed in Miami with his (1) 3 pt shooting with Miami and (2) his rim finishing during his stint with Miami compared to the rest of his career, but Miami may also just be empowering him and putting him in positions to succeed more than any prior stop. When you look at the teams in the Finals, the Pacers created depth largely from revitalizing young players that other teams gave up on early (Nesmith and Toppin, in particular; can also put McConnell in this bucket). Davion looks like a playoff player to me.

That’s a fair concern on the shooting and finishing sample, but I think what we’re seeing might be more than just a hot stretch.

The guy I keep thinking of as a comparison is early career Kyle Lowry. He wasn’t a polished shooter or finisher either and it took him years to develop into a reliable offensive engine. But what Lowry always had was tenacity at the PoA, toughness and a knack for getting into the paint even without elite burst. He eventually became a floor general by refining his reads and learning how to control tempo (at year 5+ we started seeing this for Lowry).

Davion’s path isn’t identical, but it could be similar. He already has the defensive upside and rim pressure. Lowry had the edge in court vision and natural feel as a passer and basketball IQ, but Davion is a better athlete and PoA defender at the same stage. If he can even take a partial leap as a playmaker, you’re looking at a guy who could be a starting level two way guard on a playoff team, just like Lowry eventually became.

It wouldn’t be surprising if in a few years we’re looking back and saying Davion was one of those “why did teams give up on him so fast?” players.

[greg4012]

Totally agree on Davion, he’s still flying under the radar and some here even see him as just a role player not worth overpaying.

That 29% at the rim stat is no joke. He gives Miami real rim pressure and already has the hardest part down: beating his man and forcing help. If he sharpens his reads after collapsing the defense, he could develop into a legit impactful initiator.

Defensively, he’s already close to elite at the point of attack. If the offense keeps trending up, Davion has a real shot at becoming a high impact two way guard and a key connector in this build.

It's hard to fully buy into what Davion showed in Miami with his (1) 3 pt shooting with Miami and (2) his rim finishing during his stint with Miami compared to the rest of his career, but Miami may also just be empowering him and putting him in positions to succeed more than any prior stop. When you look at the teams in the Finals, the Pacers created depth largely from revitalizing young players that other teams gave up on early (Nesmith and Toppin, in particular; can also put McConnell in this bucket). Davion looks like a playoff player to me.

That’s a fair concern on the shooting and finishing sample, but I think what we’re seeing might be more than just a hot stretch.

The guy I keep thinking of as a comparison is early career Kyle Lowry. He wasn’t a polished shooter or finisher either and it took him years to develop into a reliable offensive engine. But what Lowry always had was tenacity at the PoA, toughness and a knack for getting into the paint even without elite burst. He eventually became a floor general by refining his reads and learning how to control tempo (at year 5+ we started seeing this for Lowry).

Davion’s path isn’t identical, but it could be similar. He already has the defensive upside and rim pressure. Lowry had the edge in court vision and natural feel as a passer and basketball IQ, but Davion is a better athlete and PoA defender at the same stage. If he can even take a partial leap as a playmaker, you’re looking at a guy who could be a starting level two way guard on a playoff team, just like Lowry eventually became.

It wouldn’t be surprising if in a few years we’re looking back and saying Davion was one of those “why did teams give up on him so fast?” players.

It's definitely normal for it to take PG prospects a few years to get their footing in the NBA--especially if 3pt shooting isn't a strength off the bat.

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Dude is an absolute DAWG. That’s something you can’t teach. He’s someone you want closing games in the biggest moments of the playoffs, dude would be frothing out the mouth at the opportunity to guard SGA in a 3 point game with 2 minutes left.

Sometimes you just need the right opportunity, he showed several flashes in Sacramento but was behind Fox and Hali and then the Kings went a weird route at the point for whatever reason but hey, it’s the Kings. Then in Toronto they invested so much in quickley and had been experimenting Barnes at point as well. For whatever reason went with the rookie shead over him too.

We see it all the time with our undrafted guys, just need to be in the right spot sometimes. Except with Mitchell he’s a legitimate talent, he wasn’t undrafted he was chosen 9th in the lottery for a reason which is also comparable to Nesmith who you mentioned considering he was also a lottery pick at 14th. Celtics are kicking themselves for letting him go I bet.