Tom Thibodeau fired pt 2

[Adelheid]

its hard to be in a big market sometimes. every move is scrutinized under a microscope. might have never happened to a small market team

[Iron Mantis]

After a few wins all will be forgotten.

Thibs instilled cultchah... And that's about it.... Next season, No one is going to look at anything that happens and say: "Thibs would have done this or that better"

[Kampuchea]

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=W09F6FrMDfp5_y1gKYgF1g

Agreed.

Keep it professional. Criticism and trashing someone are two different things.

Exactly. We have people in here saying “Orc on the spectrum” and it’s reprehensible.

[Jeff Van Gully]

Put down your violin and stop lecturing people to show respect for the great Thibs who rebuilt the organization from the ashes.

I DON'T CARE

He's a completely washed up, out of touch coach who was so out of his depth during the playoffs that only our very talented starters were able to consistently mask his vast deficiencies as a coach with multiple insane comeback rallies that got them as far as they got in the playoffs.

Nah, Thibs sucks.

My opinion. You've got yours.

As far as my statement about him being on the spectrum, I gave my reason. He has extreme tunnel vision and not in a good way at all, but in a completely dysfunctional way that doesn't serve him well as a coach. He's a deer in the headlights during games because his brain simply does not process the game and make meaningful adjustments on the fly which is exactly what a competent NBA coach is supposed to do. Thibs is barely competent most of the time and he's completely awful when it matters most.

So there. He's an organization builder, blah blah blah. OK thank you Thibs, have a good life. Thanks for the hard work, because I know you probably did work very hard even if not effectively most of the time.

I swear to god, now people want to be politically correct about criticizing what a bad job he did. I'm not the one who needs to give it a rest

Adelheid is one of the most ardent of your fellow thibs critics. but you want to go ham on them because... they disagreed with you? no one lectured you on anything. no one tried to govern your behavior.

but while we're on the subject, we absolutely need to govern your behavior.

not only did you needlessly confront Adelheid here when you could have just matched their respectful tone. you then found a way to have an unrelated, unprompted side conversation about your own autism cracks.

one might actually believe your defense that you weren't using autism spectrum as an insult to be sincere if it didn't immediately follow you dehumanizing thibs the way you have for years now. then after saying there's nothing wrong with diagnosing strangers autistic, you exclusively use said diagnosis to allude to things you consider to be negative traits and behaviors -- reasons for losing one's job. as has been mentioned, your keyboard diagnosis to these ends is gravely offensive and harmful. it's also insulting, ableist, and unwelcome on this forum.

your diagnosis protocol (myopic, rigid, "brittle mindset") sounds a lot like some posters i have to read on a daily basis. and it would be wrong to insinuate that those posters are on the autism spectrum. and even if they are, that's something they should have the agency to speak on for themselves should they choose.

you should have kept all that to yourself. then you shouldn't have doubled and tripled down. you are indeed the one who needs to give it a rest.

I work with people on the spectrum and they can do various things, but some things they cannot do because of how they are wired. I don't have any problems with them and they are not coaching a professional basketball team either.

If we call Thibs narrow-minded, pigheaded, stubborn, aloof, disconnected, myopic, rigid, inflexible it's OK, but as soon as we associate it with some aspect of the human condition it becomes hate speech? It is not Jeff. It may not seem like a logical connection to make to you, but he strikes me as I said.

If someone hated the way he coached and they are glad he's gone they should not be made to conform to some notion of civility that requires us to honor Thibs for his years of service. Hating to watch basketball coached by Thibs and wondering if his flaws as a coach may be attributable to his wiring is not hating on him for his wiring, but wanting him gone for being inadequate at the job. Making that connection is not hate speech.

Not sure how to relate to people here talking about women on here as bitches and hoes, but now saying someone may be on the spectrum is a worse offense. I asked Ad to put down their violin and not lecture me on how to view Thibs. That was hardly a full blown attack and I am sorry if I offended them as I have no beef with them. Anyway, they are your rules now even if I find this line in the sand arbitrary. It is what it is; Inshallah.

we are not going to continue to derail this thread, but some of this needs clarified for the public since you won't leave it alone. the conversation needs to end here though. mean that.

your working with people on the autism spectrum couldn't be more irrelevant. most if not all of us have people in our lives on the autism spectrum. some of us posting likely are. your posts have done more to further autism spectrum stigma than anything else. and that is the vein in which they were presented. negatives associated with dehumanization. full stop.

by your same conversation, there are likely people on the autism spectrum currently working throughout the nba (including coaching, players, management). so you've not only diagnosed autism via keyboard. you've also disqualified those people from being capable of doing a certain kind of job (coaching). see: ableism. please don't go on to expand on what else they can't do.

sadly, this is all really about your dislike of thibs, to which no mod has ever challenged your right. again, you've dehumanized him for years to no penalty. but you're being checked on something and don't like it. that is a you problem at this point.

as for your whataboutism to booty thread and treatment of women discussion... the nerve. i don't know if you're trying to be funny or find acceptance or something when you do it, but you regularly post some of the creepiest and nastiest **** about women that i hold my nose and scroll past on this forum. so i frankly find this disingenuous. if you had to ask me to name 10 posters i find concerning in this area, you would be one of them. we have been asking posters to avoid misogyny and even to calm down on the objectification and oversexualization of women to make this a more welcoming place for the few we have. (might have even more if we continue to do better.)

the mod team does not need or appreciate your consistent attempts to guide (and frankly manipulate) us into making things more tenable for you specifically. you only seem to appreciate our work when it goes your way. meanwhile, we have to make tough decisions every day about posters we like and respect -- because we have to treat everyone the same and take the ethics associated with that very seriously.

you've been given guidance on how to post about autism to avoid ableism and related offense. do with it what you will. (not including continuing this conversation.)

[Clyde_Style]

Adelheid is one of the most ardent of your fellow thibs critics. but you want to go ham on them because... they disagreed with you? no one lectured you on anything. no one tried to govern your behavior.

but while we're on the subject, we absolutely need to govern your behavior.

not only did you needlessly confront Adelheid here when you could have just matched their respectful tone. you then found a way to have an unrelated, unprompted side conversation about your own autism cracks.

one might actually believe your defense that you weren't using autism spectrum as an insult to be sincere if it didn't immediately follow you dehumanizing thibs the way you have for years now. then after saying there's nothing wrong with diagnosing strangers autistic, you exclusively use said diagnosis to allude to things you consider to be negative traits and behaviors -- reasons for losing one's job. as has been mentioned, your keyboard diagnosis to these ends is gravely offensive and harmful. it's also insulting, ableist, and unwelcome on this forum.

your diagnosis protocol (myopic, rigid, "brittle mindset") sounds a lot like some posters i have to read on a daily basis. and it would be wrong to insinuate that those posters are on the autism spectrum. and even if they are, that's something they should have the agency to speak on for themselves should they choose.

you should have kept all that to yourself. then you shouldn't have doubled and tripled down. you are indeed the one who needs to give it a rest.

I work with people on the spectrum and they can do various things, but some things they cannot do because of how they are wired. I don't have any problems with them and they are not coaching a professional basketball team either.

If we call Thibs narrow-minded, pigheaded, stubborn, aloof, disconnected, myopic, rigid, inflexible it's OK, but as soon as we associate it with some aspect of the human condition it becomes hate speech? It is not Jeff. It may not seem like a logical connection to make to you, but he strikes me as I said.

If someone hated the way he coached and they are glad he's gone they should not be made to conform to some notion of civility that requires us to honor Thibs for his years of service. Hating to watch basketball coached by Thibs and wondering if his flaws as a coach may be attributable to his wiring is not hating on him for his wiring, but wanting him gone for being inadequate at the job. Making that connection is not hate speech.

Not sure how to relate to people here talking about women on here as bitches and hoes, but now saying someone may be on the spectrum is a worse offense. I asked Ad to put down their violin and not lecture me on how to view Thibs. That was hardly a full blown attack and I am sorry if I offended them as I have no beef with them. Anyway, they are your rules now even if I find this line in the sand arbitrary. It is what it is; Inshallah.

we are not going to continue to derail this thread, but some of this needs clarified for the public since you won't leave it alone. the conversation needs to end here though. mean that.

your working with people on the autism spectrum couldn't be more irrelevant. most if not all of us have people in our lives on the autism spectrum. some of us posting likely are. your posts have done more to further autism spectrum stigma than anything else. and that is the vein in which they were presented. negatives associated with dehumanization. full stop.

by your same conversation, there are likely people on the autism spectrum currently working throughout the nba (including coaching, players, management). so you've not only diagnosed autism via keyboard. you've also disqualified those people from being capable of doing a certain kind of job (coaching). see: ableism. please don't go on to expand on what else they can't do.

sadly, this is all really about your dislike of thibs, to which no mod has ever challenged your right. again, you've dehumanized him for years to no penalty. but you're being checked on something and don't like it. that is a you problem at this point.

as for your whataboutism to booty thread and treatment of women discussion... the nerve. i don't know if you're trying to be funny or find acceptance or something when you do it, but you regularly post some of the creepiest and nastiest **** about women that i hold my nose and scroll past on this forum. so i frankly find this disingenuous. if you had to ask me to name 10 posters i find concerning in this area, you would be one of them. we have been asking posters to avoid misogyny and even to calm down on the objectification and oversexualization of women to make this a more welcoming place for the few we have. (might have even more if we continue to do better.)

the mod team does not need or appreciate your consistent attempts to guide (and frankly manipulate) us into making things more tenable for you specifically. you only seem to appreciate our work when it goes your way. meanwhile, we have to make tough decisions every day about posters we like and respect -- because we have to treat everyone the same and take the ethics associated with that very seriously.

you've been given guidance on how to post about autism to avoid ableism and related offense. do with it what you will. (not including continuing this conversation.)

I will PM you and end this, because I believe you're now taking this much further in a public fashion than you should. No more replies from me will be forthcoming here.

just can't help yourself. big part of the problem. -JVG

[Kampuchea]

I didn’t even see the responses from JVG or others before my post. My fault, didn’t know it was being handled.

I have family dealing with issues, had a more detailed reply yesterday but decided against posting as the other party wouldn’t react well to the criticism.

[Jeff Van Gully]

so, how we feeling about thibs getting fired today?

[Jeff Van Gully]

I didn’t even see the responses from JVG or others before my post. My fault, didn’t know it was being handled.

I have family dealing with issues, had a more detailed reply yesterday but decided against posting as the other party wouldn’t react well to the criticism.

understandable. thanks. we're turning the page.

[Kampuchea]

so, how we feeling about thibs getting fired today?

I like seeing Hart have has back against the attacks. I bet that kind of thing means a lot to him.

Even if I disagree with the move, the move has been made and it’s time to go forward.

Not much more to say on the topic honestly, just wish him well and thank him for helping us turn this around.

[NY2k1]

so, how we feeling about thibs getting fired today?

To me, it's still bittersweet for the reasons I'm sure others have already mentioned. That being said, I think it ultimately had to be done.

I just hope the next coach we select is at least on his level or, ideally, better. Because it could obviously very easily be worse—a lot worse.

[Jeff Van Gully]

so, how we feeling about thibs getting fired today?

I like seeing Hart have has back against the attacks. I bet that kind of thing means a lot to him.

Even if I disagree with the move, the move has been made and it’s time to go forward.

Not much more to say on the topic honestly, just wish him well and thank him for helping us turn this around.

yeah, i watched the roommates podcast last night and i was pretty sad throughout.

[BKlutch]

Also, trying to insinuate that Tom is autistic isn't funny. Just my worthless two cents.

Tom was obsessed with basketball - maybe that's not unusual for any good coach. To call him autisitic seems wrong because he certainly related to his players, colleauges, etc. very well on a personal level.

we are completely off this conversation. -JVG

[MrDollarBills]

so, how we feeling about thibs getting fired today?

Same as yesterday.

I just want my Johnnie Bryant and veteran coach combo all this other stuff isn't fun.

[Gravy]

I get puzzled by how many fans have a deep personal hate for Thibs. He wasn't Isiah Thomas, he had the most success here in 25 years. He can be frustrating to fans and players and has faults like every coach; ie. Butler trying to fist fight Spo during a game, Kerr vs Kuminga...

I agree with Josh Hart, you dont have to like his coaching philosophy but give him credit for help taking us this far and dragging us out the mud. Thibs hadnt been gone a week and the Knicks are already a laughing stock around the NBA again with the coaching search. This is a tough franchise to have success in.

[Guano]

That BT response to jHart is trashy....


With that said I can see why some knick fans might have ill will towards thibs and carry that. We had a legit shot at a ring this year and that game 1 collapse all but nuked it.

Im of the opinion that were not ever in that position without thibs. And that the players need to be held accountable for thst collapse, too.

And that no single event is sole reason for us failing in that series. There was still opportunities to win the series. But its hard not to be frustrated and feel a lil shtty over the what ifs.

Anyways I fck with thibs. Always will. He was an integral part of somw of the funnest times I've had as a knicks fan.

One of my fondest memories was of him cracking jokes at a presser about Brunson and jHart that cracked himself up. I love that type of characteristic in people.

Hope he finds peace and joy in his next chapter. He has earned it. For doing the impossible with the team he loves, we love.






edit - Jfc this is not my style and ill get back to guan0 shortly.

[FrozenEnvelope]

so, how we feeling about thibs getting fired today?

I would've kept him. I think Thibs earned at least one more season. Best season in 25 years and had the support of the captain. And at least with Thibs we knew we'd win 50 plus and be in the playoffs. That is never ever a guarantee. There was a certain comfort with him knowing we'd be a good team.

We'll see how his replacement does but I would not be the least bit surprised if we underachieve and want him fired.

And I hate how this coaching search had gone down with all the LOLKNICKS ****.

[BKlutch]

so, how we feeling about thibs getting fired today?

I would've kept him. I think Thibs earned at least one more season. Best season in 25 years and had the support of the captain. And at least with Thibs we knew we'd win 50 plus and be in the playoffs. That is never ever a guarantee. There was a certain comfort with him knowing we'd be a good team.

We'll see how his replacement does but I would not be the least bit surprised if we underachieve and want him fired.

And I hate how this coaching search had gone down with all the LOLKNICKS ****.

I think that LOLKNICKS stuff is part of how the hordes of commentators and analysts earn their living. I've noticed the more informed writers aren't doing that. Maybe there are just too many of those commentators and we need to filter out a bunch of ones who just write whatever they think will get clicks.

Except for any bizarre player moves by the front office this offseason, we should do well again next year with a decent coach. We did well with Tom, too, but Leon said we're looking for more. We should expect to have a good year but will we be real contenders? By firing Tom, Leon not only set the bar very high for our next coach, but he's also set a high bar for the team's performance as a whole.

[kNicksGmen]

so, how we feeling about thibs getting fired today?

Same as yesterday.

I just want my Johnnie Bryant and veteran coach combo all this other stuff isn't fun.

This. I don't think this team needs some vet coach - they need a better offensive/defensive system - a coach that calls set plays.

so, how we feeling about thibs getting fired today?

I would've kept him. I think Thibs earned at least one more season. Best season in 25 years and had the support of the captain. And at least with Thibs we knew we'd win 50 plus and be in the playoffs. That is never ever a guarantee. There was a certain comfort with him knowing we'd be a good team.

We'll see how his replacement does but I would not be the least bit surprised if we underachieve and want him fired.

And I hate how this coaching search had gone down with all the LOLKNICKS ****.

Context is important which is why the "best season in 25 years" thing is overblown to me. This team going into the season had the 3rd best title odds, nearly tied with OKC for 2nd. It was a roster that should have made the ECF - the cavs being as good as they were threw a wrech in it by the Celtics finishing 2nd instead of 3rd. But beating the Celtics as great as it was also needs the context of how many issues that team was facing - and yet it still took a couple miraculous comebacks that I'm unsure should be accredited to the coach. I agree there was a comfort of a FLOOR with Thibs - but there was also a concern with the ceiling. The window this team has and the roster it has, I would gladly trade the odds for a potentially higher ceiling for a lower floor. As I said earlier, context matters and has to be considered - the knicks were essentially FULLY HEALHTY at the right time and still struggled through nearly every game of the playoffs. The opportunity was golden by getting past a weakened Celtics team and the Cavs having been taken care of. My concern for the next coach is how probable is it that OG/Kat/Mitch is going to be healthy for next years playoffs? If they're not and knicks lose I'm sure the Thibs defenders will not take that into consideration.

I get puzzled by how many fans have a deep personal hate for Thibs. He wasn't Isiah Thomas, he had the most success here in 25 years. He can be frustrating to fans and players and has faults like every coach; ie. Butler trying to fist fight Spo during a game, Kerr vs Kuminga...

I agree with Josh Hart, you dont have to like his coaching philosophy but give him credit for help taking us this far and dragging us out the mud. Thibs hadnt been gone a week and the Knicks are already a laughing stock around the NBA again with the coaching search. This is a tough franchise to have success in.

Sure he deserves a lot of credit, but a lot of the dragging out of the mud stuff is just as much due to the front office (Leon) improving the roster with quality moves. knicks being a laughing stock now as it relates to the coaching search is no different to me than brunson being considered an unwatchable foul baiter during this playoff run. It's LoL knicks for clicks nonsense.

[nedleeds]

so, how we feeling about thibs getting fired today?

Thrilled. He's terrible and has only gotten worse. He is a master at hiding behind regular season "success", most of which is just him playing his starters max minutes and chasing back to backs. In the case of the Knicks job nobody benefitted more from covid test results than Thibs who got his fake coach of the year award against teams that had throw in the whole regular season. I thought we should have fired him after the Hawks series and said so.

An empty seat is more effective in game than Thibs, and I don't think his pre-game planning shows any evidence of netting wins in the playoffs.

My biggest fear is we just replace him with another Scott Brooks / Steve Clifford / Dwayne Casey / Mike Malone / Billy Donovan -- utterly uncreative, conservative, go nowhere treadmill hires.

[nedleeds]

That BT response to jHart is trashy....


With that said I can see why some knick fans might have ill will towards thibs and carry that. We had a legit shot at a ring this year and that game 1 collapse all but nuked it.

Im of the opinion that were not ever in that position without thibs. And that the players need to be held accountable for thst collapse, too.

And that no single event is sole reason for us failing in that series. There was still opportunities to win the series. But its hard not to be frustrated and feel a lil shtty over the what ifs.

Anyways I fck with thibs. Always will. He was an integral part of somw of the funnest times I've had as a knicks fan.

One of my fondest memories was of him cracking jokes at a presser about Brunson and jHart that cracked himself up. I love that type of characteristic in people.

Hope he finds peace and joy in his next chapter. He has earned it. For doing the impossible with the team he loves, we love.