2025 Offseason Season Thread Vol. 1

[Kobewade11]

If Ware is Phoenix' hard line, Mia should bite the bullet.

Maybe then pursue a trade with Dallas for Gafford; something like:

Rozier and a pick for Gafford, Caleb, and filler

Do we really want to put a big who has never made a 3 pointer in his career next to Bam

[greg4012]

Because of the 1.3 PPG difference?

Because he was a second creator and scorer and in several games per series was our best offensive player. Goran going into the Finals was averaging 2 points per game more than Jimmy was. Dragic was just over 20. Got hurt in game 1 and wasn't himself in game 6. It hurt his numbers. 7 games in the East playoffs Butler didn't hit 20 pts. In the clincher against Indiana he scored 6 points and Dragic scored 23. His legend was built in Game 3 and Game 5 against the Lakers. Jimmy was our best player but he was not our most consistent scorer leading up the Finals. Bam has the great block in Game 1 against Boston. We don't win games 1 and 2 without Dragic's 29 7 4 and 25 3 5 statlines

Yea so pretty much PPG related and ignoring Bams greater impact and overall game as I had figured. You’re wrong but that’s ok

It's become apparent that most Miami fans will fawn over a PG meeting the threshold of expectation for their positional responsibilities to a much greater degree than a big man exceeding the threshold of expectation for their positional responsibilities.

[fincane30]

Because of the 1.3 PPG difference?

Because he was a second creator and scorer and in several games per series was our best offensive player. Goran going into the Finals was averaging 2 points per game more than Jimmy was. Dragic was just over 20. Got hurt in game 1 and wasn't himself in game 6. It hurt his numbers. 7 games in the East playoffs Butler didn't hit 20 pts. In the clincher against Indiana he scored 6 points and Dragic scored 23. His legend was built in Game 3 and Game 5 against the Lakers. Jimmy was our best player but he was not our most consistent scorer leading up the Finals. Bam has the great block in Game 1 against Boston. We don't win games 1 and 2 without Dragic's 29 7 4 and 25 3 5 statlines

Yea so pretty much PPG related and ignoring Bams greater impact and overall game as I had figured. You’re wrong but that’s ok

And you're ignoring the impact a dynamic ball handler who takes and make big shots does for everybody else. Bam at that point his career was a lob threat and a roller. He did not and could not create for himself consistently. Bam can impact in all the ways that he does and did back then and if a lesser player is in place of Dragic that team doesn't make the Finals. At some point somebody has to knock down shots to kill off games and or end runs. That was not Bam in the bubble.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Because he was a second creator and scorer and in several games per series was our best offensive player. Goran going into the Finals was averaging 2 points per game more than Jimmy was. Dragic was just over 20. Got hurt in game 1 and wasn't himself in game 6. It hurt his numbers. 7 games in the East playoffs Butler didn't hit 20 pts. In the clincher against Indiana he scored 6 points and Dragic scored 23. His legend was built in Game 3 and Game 5 against the Lakers. Jimmy was our best player but he was not our most consistent scorer leading up the Finals. Bam has the great block in Game 1 against Boston. We don't win games 1 and 2 without Dragic's 29 7 4 and 25 3 5 statlines

Yea so pretty much PPG related and ignoring Bams greater impact and overall game as I had figured. You’re wrong but that’s ok

It's become apparent that most Miami fans will fawn over a PG meeting the threshold of expectation for their positional responsibilities to a much greater degree than a big man exceeding the threshold of expectation for their positional responsibilities.

Heat nations most hated, just is what it is at this point.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Because he was a second creator and scorer and in several games per series was our best offensive player. Goran going into the Finals was averaging 2 points per game more than Jimmy was. Dragic was just over 20. Got hurt in game 1 and wasn't himself in game 6. It hurt his numbers. 7 games in the East playoffs Butler didn't hit 20 pts. In the clincher against Indiana he scored 6 points and Dragic scored 23. His legend was built in Game 3 and Game 5 against the Lakers. Jimmy was our best player but he was not our most consistent scorer leading up the Finals. Bam has the great block in Game 1 against Boston. We don't win games 1 and 2 without Dragic's 29 7 4 and 25 3 5 statlines

Yea so pretty much PPG related and ignoring Bams greater impact and overall game as I had figured. You’re wrong but that’s ok

And you're ignoring the impact a dynamic ball handler who takes and make big shots does for everybody else. Bam at that point his career was a lob threat and a roller. He did not and could not create for himself consistently. Bam can impact in all the ways that he does and did back then and if a lesser player is in place of Dragic that team doesn't make the Finals. At some point somebody has to knock down shots to kill off games and or end runs. That was not Bam in the bubble.

I’m not ignoring it, I actually looked at their actual impact and Bams was far superior and it isn’t something I just made up in my head. I’d encourage you to compare their top 5 games each from that playoff run, you’d be surprised.

You’re swapping out an 18-10-5 arguably best defender in the world in Bam and still making the finals tho?!

[greg4012]

Because he was a second creator and scorer and in several games per series was our best offensive player. Goran going into the Finals was averaging 2 points per game more than Jimmy was. Dragic was just over 20. Got hurt in game 1 and wasn't himself in game 6. It hurt his numbers. 7 games in the East playoffs Butler didn't hit 20 pts. In the clincher against Indiana he scored 6 points and Dragic scored 23. His legend was built in Game 3 and Game 5 against the Lakers. Jimmy was our best player but he was not our most consistent scorer leading up the Finals. Bam has the great block in Game 1 against Boston. We don't win games 1 and 2 without Dragic's 29 7 4 and 25 3 5 statlines

Yea so pretty much PPG related and ignoring Bams greater impact and overall game as I had figured. You’re wrong but that’s ok

And you're ignoring the impact a dynamic ball handler who takes and make big shots does for everybody else. Bam at that point his career was a lob threat and a roller. He did not and could not create for himself consistently. Bam can impact in all the ways that he does and did back then and if a lesser player is in place of Dragic that team doesn't make the Finals. At some point somebody has to knock down shots to kill off games and or end runs. That was not Bam in the bubble.

And what happens when Miami puts in a lesser Center that can't defend 1-5, cover the most space defensively in the NBA, finish and score at a rate of nearly 20 ppg, and facilitate at the SAME rate as a PG plus produce DHO and screen assists that were one of the core elements of the entire offense functioning? What happens then? I think Miami is 1st round fodder.

Yes, PGs are SUPPOSED to create more of the offense bc that's their position's function. If they could protect the rim, defend across the positional spectrum, bang with bigs, get teammates open with screens, outrebound opponents, finish created looks above the rim in the paint, and keep people out of the paint then there would be more reason to think offensive creation should be distributed more evenly. If a PG isn't creating looks and controlling game flow they are usually not providing ANY value on the court.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Yea so pretty much PPG related and ignoring Bams greater impact and overall game as I had figured. You’re wrong but that’s ok

And you're ignoring the impact a dynamic ball handler who takes and make big shots does for everybody else. Bam at that point his career was a lob threat and a roller. He did not and could not create for himself consistently. Bam can impact in all the ways that he does and did back then and if a lesser player is in place of Dragic that team doesn't make the Finals. At some point somebody has to knock down shots to kill off games and or end runs. That was not Bam in the bubble.

And what happens when Miami puts in a lesser Center that can't defend 1-5, cover the most space defensively in the NBA, finish and score at a rate of nearly 20 ppg, and facilitate at the SAME rate as a PG plus produce DHO and screen assists that were one of the core elements of the entire offense functioning? What happens then? I think Miami is 1st round fodder.

Yes, PGs are SUPPOSED to create more of the offense bc that's their position's function. If they could protect the rim, defend across the positional spectrum, bang with bigs, get teammates open with screens, outrebound opponents, and keep people out of the paint then there would be more reason to think offensive creation should be distributed more evenly. If a PG isn't creating looks and controlling game flow they are usually not providing ANY value on the court.

People forget how major of a contributor Duncan was to that run as well and they’ll ignore who was the key to unlocking that.

[greg4012]

And you're ignoring the impact a dynamic ball handler who takes and make big shots does for everybody else. Bam at that point his career was a lob threat and a roller. He did not and could not create for himself consistently. Bam can impact in all the ways that he does and did back then and if a lesser player is in place of Dragic that team doesn't make the Finals. At some point somebody has to knock down shots to kill off games and or end runs. That was not Bam in the bubble.

And what happens when Miami puts in a lesser Center that can't defend 1-5, cover the most space defensively in the NBA, finish and score at a rate of nearly 20 ppg, and facilitate at the SAME rate as a PG plus produce DHO and screen assists that were one of the core elements of the entire offense functioning? What happens then? I think Miami is 1st round fodder.

Yes, PGs are SUPPOSED to create more of the offense bc that's their position's function. If they could protect the rim, defend across the positional spectrum, bang with bigs, get teammates open with screens, outrebound opponents, and keep people out of the paint then there would be more reason to think offensive creation should be distributed more evenly. If a PG isn't creating looks and controlling game flow they are usually not providing ANY value on the court.

People forget how major of a contributor Duncan was to that run as well and they’ll ignore who was the key to unlocking that.

Duncan started every playoff game in the bubble. It was his career high playoff scoring run. The bubble Heat were bombing 3 balls with specialists in Duncan and Herro plus Dragic doing his thing. All 3 negative defenders (plus Kelly O who was borderline) that was made possible due to Bam, Jimmy, and Jae covering for them. I'd bet the majority of Duncan's 3 balls were a result of Bam getting him open or directly feeding him on DHO.

[fincane30]

Because of the 1.3 PPG difference?

Because he was a second creator and scorer and in several games per series was our best offensive player. Goran going into the Finals was averaging 2 points per game more than Jimmy was. Dragic was just over 20. Got hurt in game 1 and wasn't himself in game 6. It hurt his numbers. 7 games in the East playoffs Butler didn't hit 20 pts. In the clincher against Indiana he scored 6 points and Dragic scored 23. His legend was built in Game 3 and Game 5 against the Lakers. Jimmy was our best player but he was not our most consistent scorer leading up the Finals. Bam has the great block in Game 1 against Boston. We don't win games 1 and 2 without Dragic's 29 7 4 and 25 3 5 statlines

No one disagrees that Dragic had a great playoff run and was critically important to the team in a TEAM game. You overreached and are trying to justify it. The board's favorite past time.

Better stats in bold

Goran playoff stats:
19.1 ppg
EFG = 51%
4.4 apg (2.3 tos)
4.1 rpg
1.1 stocks per
ORTG = 107
DRTG = 113
OBPM = 1.1
DBPM = -0.8
BPM = 0.3
VORP = 0.3
OWS = 0.4
DWS = 0.4
WS = 0.8

Bam playoff stats:
17.8 ppg
EFG = 56%
4.4 apg (2.5 tos)
10.3 rpg
1.8 stocks per
ORTG = 122
DRTG = 109
OBPM = 2.3
DBPM = 1.8
BPM = 4.1
VORP = 1.0
OWS = 1.7
DWS = 0.9
WS = 2.6


Goran had 2 games where he played less than 30 minutes--game 1 of finals where he got injured (15 minutes) and game 6 where he came back from injury too early (19 minutes)

Bam had 1 game where he played less than 30 minutes--game 1 of finals where he got injured (21 minutes). He came back from injury for games 5 and 6.

Overreach to say the guy who led an Eastern Conference champion in scoring before he got hurt was the 2nd best player. Sure. Bam is a great advanced stat guy. Defensive first guys usually are. No one was asking Bam to carry the load of keeping that offense afloat. The ball wasn't in his hands in tight games. He wasn't asked to start offense or be a willing shooter when the ball came to him down the stretch. Roller, lob threat and some pick and pop and great defense. This isn't an attack on Bam. He simply wasn't the player he is now five years ago. There was reason a Jimmy Butler had to go god mode in a couple of Finals games. And it wasn't because Bam had the shoulder injury. If they gave out the award then Goran had great case for conference finals MVP and probably would've won it

[Beenie]

If Ware is Phoenix' hard line, Mia should bite the bullet.

Maybe then pursue a trade with Dallas for Gafford; something like:

Rozier and a pick for Gafford, Caleb, and filler

Do we really want to put a big who has never made a 3 pointer in his career next to Bam

Not for 48 mins a night

Maybe for 10-15 mins

[greg4012]

Because he was a second creator and scorer and in several games per series was our best offensive player. Goran going into the Finals was averaging 2 points per game more than Jimmy was. Dragic was just over 20. Got hurt in game 1 and wasn't himself in game 6. It hurt his numbers. 7 games in the East playoffs Butler didn't hit 20 pts. In the clincher against Indiana he scored 6 points and Dragic scored 23. His legend was built in Game 3 and Game 5 against the Lakers. Jimmy was our best player but he was not our most consistent scorer leading up the Finals. Bam has the great block in Game 1 against Boston. We don't win games 1 and 2 without Dragic's 29 7 4 and 25 3 5 statlines

No one disagrees that Dragic had a great playoff run and was critically important to the team in a TEAM game. You overreached and are trying to justify it. The board's favorite past time.

Better stats in bold

Goran playoff stats:
19.1 ppg
EFG = 51%
4.4 apg (2.3 tos)
4.1 rpg
1.1 stocks per
ORTG = 107
DRTG = 113
OBPM = 1.1
DBPM = -0.8
BPM = 0.3
VORP = 0.3
OWS = 0.4
DWS = 0.4
WS = 0.8

Bam playoff stats:
17.8 ppg
EFG = 56%
4.4 apg (2.5 tos)
10.3 rpg
1.8 stocks per
ORTG = 122
DRTG = 109
OBPM = 2.3
DBPM = 1.8
BPM = 4.1
VORP = 1.0
OWS = 1.7
DWS = 0.9
WS = 2.6


Goran had 2 games where he played less than 30 minutes--game 1 of finals where he got injured (15 minutes) and game 6 where he came back from injury too early (19 minutes)

Bam had 1 game where he played less than 30 minutes--game 1 of finals where he got injured (21 minutes). He came back from injury for games 5 and 6.

Overreach to say the guy who led an Eastern Conference champion in scoring before he got hurt was the 2nd best player. Sure. Bam is a great advanced stat guy. Defensive first guys usually are. No one was asking Bam to carry the load of keeping that offense afloat. The ball wasn't in his hands in tight games. He wasn't asked to start offense or be a willing shooter when the ball came to him down the stretch. Roller, lob threat and some pick and pop and great defense. This isn't an attack on Bam. He simply wasn't the player he is now five years ago. There was reason a Jimmy Butler had to go god mode in a couple of Finals games. And it wasn't because Bam had the shoulder injury. If they gave out the award then Goran had great case for conference finals MVP and probably would've won it

LOL at casually dismissing EVERY stat that tracks impact as if they are all the same and saying "defensive first guys" usually are favored by advanced stats which is PATENTLY FALSE.

It might not be an attack on Bam, but it's a clear display of lack of understanding as to how teams win in the NBA.

Please tell me more about how Offensive Rating, Offensive Box Plus Minus, Offensive Win Shares, Win Shares and Value Over Replacement Players are advanced stats that usually favor "defensive first guys". I'm ready to learn.

[SA37]

Agreed. Any false narratives of "I can't believe Heat fans think Ware is better or going to be better than current KD" are bad faith arguments.

How so?

Miami is looking for a star, so why hold on to a piece that may or may not pan out over a guy you already know is a star? That's going to be at the heart of any assessment.

Again, who is more replaceable, Ware or KD? KD.

Miami could sign Steven Adams, Brook Lopez, Myles Turner, Clint Capela, Larry Nance Jr...etc and get similar production -- or better -- to what Ware is likely to provide in the next 2-3 years (without the upside, of course).

There is only one KD.

Miami fans have spent how long talking about acquiring a floor spacing/rim protecting center as if that’s an easily acquirable piece? 10 years? More?

You named some truly subpar players, some of which are nothing more than backup centers on their last legs. Let’s be real here. There’s no reasonable means to acquire Myles Turner. Quick runthru those names:

Myles Turner - going to be re-signed by Indy for a BAG. 0% chance
Steven Adams - averaged 13 mpg this season (4 ppg, 5 rpg, 1 apg, 0.5 bpg, 0 3pa per game); will be 32 years old
Brook Lopez - will be 37 years old; averaged 13 ppg, 5 rpg (yikes), 1.8 apg, 1.9 bpg (nice), 4.7 3pa per game. Basically banking on one decent season in a part time role before he turns to complete dust
Clint Capela - becoming a part time player due to losing athleticism. 0 3pa per game. Kel'el as a rookie matched or exceeded his per36 numbers and is trending in the opposite direction. Will likely be signed by LA.
Larry Nance Jr - not a center. Will be 33 years old after playing in 24 total games last season.

The KD convo needs to be about acquiring him while maintaining a core that can legitimately compete, esp if it involves giving away assets that set up Miamis future.

Who is more replaceable between Ware and KD? Easily Ware. Is the hypothetical scenario where all it will cost is Ware? If so, I can get behind that.

Who has more years of value to offer Miami between Ware and KD?

Do one of Ware or KD come with a guarantee of providing no additional value in the near future?

Expiration dates matter. If Miami is committing to a KD window, then Miami can’t also tank that KD window while also giving away future draft capital.

Just a friendly reminder that Ware was irrelevant in Miami's short playoff stint and, outside of a few good outings, really didn't move the needle for Miami in the regular season. Simply put, Ware doesn't move the needle for Miami.

If you think Ware has a really high ceiling, then I don't blame you for not wanting to include him in a Durant trade. My take is all of Miami's young players have pretty low ceilings and could easily be replaced by veteran FAs. Yes, that "sacrifices" Miami's "future", but I don't see Jovic, Jaquez, or Ware as being central to Miami becoming a contender now or down the line. So I am completely ok trading all of them if needed (not necessarily in a single deal for Durant).

Maybe I am wrong, but I think if Miami gets Durant, Westbrook likely follows, and perhaps Brook Lopez would consider signing with Miami versus staying in Milwaukee.

Lopez / Love
Bam / K Anderson
Durant / Highsmith / Bruce Brown (?)
Herro / Burks (?)
Westbrook / Mitchell (?)

[greg4012]

How so?

Miami is looking for a star, so why hold on to a piece that may or may not pan out over a guy you already know is a star? That's going to be at the heart of any assessment.

Again, who is more replaceable, Ware or KD? KD.

Miami could sign Steven Adams, Brook Lopez, Myles Turner, Clint Capela, Larry Nance Jr...etc and get similar production -- or better -- to what Ware is likely to provide in the next 2-3 years (without the upside, of course).

There is only one KD.

Miami fans have spent how long talking about acquiring a floor spacing/rim protecting center as if that’s an easily acquirable piece? 10 years? More?

You named some truly subpar players, some of which are nothing more than backup centers on their last legs. Let’s be real here. There’s no reasonable means to acquire Myles Turner. Quick runthru those names:

Myles Turner - going to be re-signed by Indy for a BAG. 0% chance
Steven Adams - averaged 13 mpg this season (4 ppg, 5 rpg, 1 apg, 0.5 bpg, 0 3pa per game); will be 32 years old
Brook Lopez - will be 37 years old; averaged 13 ppg, 5 rpg (yikes), 1.8 apg, 1.9 bpg (nice), 4.7 3pa per game. Basically banking on one decent season in a part time role before he turns to complete dust
Clint Capela - becoming a part time player due to losing athleticism. 0 3pa per game. Kel'el as a rookie matched or exceeded his per36 numbers and is trending in the opposite direction. Will likely be signed by LA.
Larry Nance Jr - not a center. Will be 33 years old after playing in 24 total games last season.

The KD convo needs to be about acquiring him while maintaining a core that can legitimately compete, esp if it involves giving away assets that set up Miamis future.

Who is more replaceable between Ware and KD? Easily Ware. Is the hypothetical scenario where all it will cost is Ware? If so, I can get behind that.

Who has more years of value to offer Miami between Ware and KD?

Do one of Ware or KD come with a guarantee of providing no additional value in the near future?

Expiration dates matter. If Miami is committing to a KD window, then Miami can’t also tank that KD window while also giving away future draft capital.

Just a friendly reminder that Ware was irrelevant in Miami's short playoff stint and, outside of a few good outings, really didn't move the needle for Miami in the regular season. Simply put, Ware doesn't move the needle for Miami.

If you think Ware has a really high ceiling, then I don't blame you for not wanting to include him in a Durant trade. My take is all of Miami's young players have pretty low ceilings and could easily be replaced by veteran FAs. Yes, that "sacrifices" Miami's "future", but I don't see Jovic, Jaquez, or Ware as being central to Miami becoming a contender now or down the line. So I am completely ok trading all of them if needed (not necessarily in a single deal for Durant).

Maybe I am wrong, but I think if Miami gets Durant, Westbrook likely follows, and perhaps Brook Lopez would consider signing with Miami versus staying in Milwaukee.

Lopez / Love
Bam / K Anderson
Durant / Highsmith / Bruce Brown (?)
Herro / Burks (?)
Westbrook / Mitchell (?)

I can understand why we see things differently bc you think Ware has a "low ceiling". I'm happy to just agree that we see it completely differently and orient ourselves to thresholds for KD trade accordingly.

You're gonna be proven wrong on that over time tho.

Ware getting the playoff experience (and having his deer in the headlights moment to learn from) is actually something I see as a clear positive. He got better oriented over the course of the playoffs. This is the time in his career where advancements are most accelerated. The more physical gifts a young NBA prospect possesses, the greater the rate of potential progress.

Edit: the build you mentioned can have a chance for 1 season if each of the 3 starters over age 35 remain healthy through a playoff run, but man it's really hard to bank on that while also being neutral or deficient athletically at every position except PF and kinda PG?

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Because he was a second creator and scorer and in several games per series was our best offensive player. Goran going into the Finals was averaging 2 points per game more than Jimmy was. Dragic was just over 20. Got hurt in game 1 and wasn't himself in game 6. It hurt his numbers. 7 games in the East playoffs Butler didn't hit 20 pts. In the clincher against Indiana he scored 6 points and Dragic scored 23. His legend was built in Game 3 and Game 5 against the Lakers. Jimmy was our best player but he was not our most consistent scorer leading up the Finals. Bam has the great block in Game 1 against Boston. We don't win games 1 and 2 without Dragic's 29 7 4 and 25 3 5 statlines

No one disagrees that Dragic had a great playoff run and was critically important to the team in a TEAM game. You overreached and are trying to justify it. The board's favorite past time.

Better stats in bold

Goran playoff stats:
19.1 ppg
EFG = 51%
4.4 apg (2.3 tos)
4.1 rpg
1.1 stocks per
ORTG = 107
DRTG = 113
OBPM = 1.1
DBPM = -0.8
BPM = 0.3
VORP = 0.3
OWS = 0.4
DWS = 0.4
WS = 0.8

Bam playoff stats:
17.8 ppg
EFG = 56%
4.4 apg (2.5 tos)
10.3 rpg
1.8 stocks per
ORTG = 122
DRTG = 109
OBPM = 2.3
DBPM = 1.8
BPM = 4.1
VORP = 1.0
OWS = 1.7
DWS = 0.9
WS = 2.6


Goran had 2 games where he played less than 30 minutes--game 1 of finals where he got injured (15 minutes) and game 6 where he came back from injury too early (19 minutes)

Bam had 1 game where he played less than 30 minutes--game 1 of finals where he got injured (21 minutes). He came back from injury for games 5 and 6.

Overreach to say the guy who led an Eastern Conference champion in scoring before he got hurt was the 2nd best player. Sure. Bam is a great advanced stat guy. Defensive first guys usually are. No one was asking Bam to carry the load of keeping that offense afloat. The ball wasn't in his hands in tight games. He wasn't asked to start offense or be a willing shooter when the ball came to him down the stretch. Roller, lob threat and some pick and pop and great defense. This isn't an attack on Bam. He simply wasn't the player he is now five years ago. There was reason a Jimmy Butler had to go god mode in a couple of Finals games. And it wasn't because Bam had the shoulder injury. If they gave out the award then Goran had great case for conference finals MVP and probably would've won it

Bro he scored 1 PPG more than Bam on that run, ONE! Are you trolling? Bam was far and away the Heats best player in the 2020 ECF, he easily would’ve won the award averaging 22-11-5-2-1 with a 66TS% compared to Dragics 21-4-5 on 57TS%.

Like I said, rewriting history

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Read on Twitter

Were the much better option for the Suns, let’s wrap this up.

[SA37]

If Ware is Phoenix' hard line, Mia should bite the bullet.

Maybe then pursue a trade with Dallas for Gafford; something like:

Rozier and a pick for Gafford, Caleb, and filler

Mitchell Robinson might be available. Brook Lopez would be ideal. Porzingis may be avail. Nic Claxton is available. Robert Williams is available.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Read on Twitter

I mean this is done right? They’re just trying to squeeze another asset or 2 out of us I’m guessing?

[greg4012]

No one disagrees that Dragic had a great playoff run and was critically important to the team in a TEAM game. You overreached and are trying to justify it. The board's favorite past time.

Better stats in bold

Goran playoff stats:
19.1 ppg
EFG = 51%
4.4 apg (2.3 tos)
4.1 rpg
1.1 stocks per
ORTG = 107
DRTG = 113
OBPM = 1.1
DBPM = -0.8
BPM = 0.3
VORP = 0.3
OWS = 0.4
DWS = 0.4
WS = 0.8

Bam playoff stats:
17.8 ppg
EFG = 56%
4.4 apg (2.5 tos)
10.3 rpg
1.8 stocks per
ORTG = 122
DRTG = 109
OBPM = 2.3
DBPM = 1.8
BPM = 4.1
VORP = 1.0
OWS = 1.7
DWS = 0.9
WS = 2.6


Goran had 2 games where he played less than 30 minutes--game 1 of finals where he got injured (15 minutes) and game 6 where he came back from injury too early (19 minutes)

Bam had 1 game where he played less than 30 minutes--game 1 of finals where he got injured (21 minutes). He came back from injury for games 5 and 6.

Overreach to say the guy who led an Eastern Conference champion in scoring before he got hurt was the 2nd best player. Sure. Bam is a great advanced stat guy. Defensive first guys usually are. No one was asking Bam to carry the load of keeping that offense afloat. The ball wasn't in his hands in tight games. He wasn't asked to start offense or be a willing shooter when the ball came to him down the stretch. Roller, lob threat and some pick and pop and great defense. This isn't an attack on Bam. He simply wasn't the player he is now five years ago. There was reason a Jimmy Butler had to go god mode in a couple of Finals games. And it wasn't because Bam had the shoulder injury. If they gave out the award then Goran had great case for conference finals MVP and probably would've won it

Bro he scored 1 PPG more than Bam on that run, ONE! Are you trolling? Bam was far and away the Heats best player in the 2020 ECF, he easily would’ve won the award averaging 22-11-5-2-1 with a 66TS% compared to Dragics 21-4-5 on 57TS%.

Like I said, rewriting history

Pretty wild work. I loved Dragic's 2020 playoff run, but man.

[MettaWorldPanda]

Read on Twitter

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Overreach to say the guy who led an Eastern Conference champion in scoring before he got hurt was the 2nd best player. Sure. Bam is a great advanced stat guy. Defensive first guys usually are. No one was asking Bam to carry the load of keeping that offense afloat. The ball wasn't in his hands in tight games. He wasn't asked to start offense or be a willing shooter when the ball came to him down the stretch. Roller, lob threat and some pick and pop and great defense. This isn't an attack on Bam. He simply wasn't the player he is now five years ago. There was reason a Jimmy Butler had to go god mode in a couple of Finals games. And it wasn't because Bam had the shoulder injury. If they gave out the award then Goran had great case for conference finals MVP and probably would've won it

Bro he scored 1 PPG more than Bam on that run, ONE! Are you trolling? Bam was far and away the Heats best player in the 2020 ECF, he easily would’ve won the award averaging 22-11-5-2-1 with a 66TS% compared to Dragics 21-4-5 on 57TS%.

Like I said, rewriting history

Pretty wild work. I loved Dragic's 2020 playoff run, but man.

Same haha I feel bad even talking down on it (I’m not really he just simply wasn’t better than Bam) but Jesus Christ. I just don’t get it.