2024-2025 College Basketball / NBA Draft - Volume III

[mjkvol]

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He’s got a solid foundation for creating off the dribble. Honestly, he looks like he has a deeper bag than Ace.

There’s reason for optimism in Kneuppel’s shot creation.

Halfcourt shot attempts:
-At the rim: 87 total attempts, only 26% assisted, finishing at 61% FG
-Midrange: 40 total attempts, just 11% assisted, converting at 40% FG

The most evident thing in the Kon "highlight" video is how WIDE OPEN the floor is. He's getting straight 1 on 1 defense with zero attention paid by all the other defenders, who are sticking like glue to Kon's teammates.

Kon benefitted from the insane gravity on that stacked Duke team where defenses didn't pay attention to him. There's absolutely nothing there that shows he can be a #1 offensive option against tough, athletic defenses focusing on him.

Yeah, but in this clip, he still shows he can blow by his man off the dribble and get paint touches. Once he’s in the lane, he’s got a deep bag, using a variety of moves to create space and finish with that soft shooting touch. I don’t expect him to beat most defenders in isolation, but off a screen, I think he can get downhill and make plays.

Yeah, his ability to create space using his body and footwork once in the paint is really impressive. He never seems to be rushed in any way, but is very patient finding the best look.

[Black Mage]

For what it's worth, I don't put a whole lot of stock into combine testing as games in the real world have attributes like basketball-IQ and processing speed impacting how fast players actually are as they need to recognize plays and decide where to go, on top of actually running there, but the NBA released updated combine strength/agility results that included Kon Kneuppel. I suppose that rather than ducking the tests, he actually had some kind of injury at the time, and must have run them sometime in the last few days.

https://www.nba.com/stats/draft/combine-strength-agility?dir=D&sort=MAX_VERTICAL_LEAP

The results IMO were better than expected. The agility results were all in the lowest tier: nothing unexpected there. But the standing vertical leap and max vertical leap tests were actually good though, surpassing Cooper Flagg's.

Would love to know where those numbers came from, since Kon DID NOT do vert or any agility testing during the combine b/c he faked an ankle injury that he magically recovered from 3 days later to do a private pro day shooting exhibition.

So that's two times now we have proof that Kon avoids doing things he doesn't think he'll perform well in. He won't take pull up jumpers and he dodges draft combines. Starting to see a disturbing pattern here.

[Black Mage]

The most evident thing in the Kon "highlight" video is how WIDE OPEN the floor is. He's getting straight 1 on 1 defense with zero attention paid by all the other defenders, who are sticking like glue to Kon's teammates.

Kon benefitted from the insane gravity on that stacked Duke team where defenses didn't pay attention to him. There's absolutely nothing there that shows he can be a #1 offensive option against tough, athletic defenses focusing on him.

Yeah, but in this clip, he still shows he can blow by his man off the dribble and get paint touches. Once he’s in the lane, he’s got a deep bag, using a variety of moves to create space and finish with that soft shooting touch. I don’t expect him to beat most defenders in isolation, but off a screen, I think he can get downhill and make plays.

Yeah, his ability to create space using his body and footwork once in the paint is really impressive. He never seems to be rushed in any way, but is very patient finding the best look.

Except, that's not going to be how the NBA looks. He's going to be against stronger and equally sized bodied players that have longer wingspan and reach. He tries to do that dancing stuff in the lane and an NBA center is going to recover and eat those underhanded lobs to the basket for lunch.

Arsenal is right, Kon NEVER faced double or triple coverage. He had only his man to beat while 3 other defenders stood with backs turned watching their covers around the arc and the center glued to Maluach to avoid a lob/dunk.

Imagine what Ace does if all he had to do was beat ONE guy and then it's a cake walk to the lane.

Kon wouldn't know what to do if he had to face double and triple teams with his center unable to catch 10 foot lobs and his teammates at the arc shooting 23% from 3.

[Black Mage]

Yeah, calling Kon "3 and no D" seems ridiculous. He's clearly capable of so much more on offense. McCain would have been called "3 and no D" by the same people last year and he should have gone in the top 5.

Except, McCain was an actual elite shooter on C&S and pull up. Not this faker who can't and actually avoided shooting pull ups.

[Arsenal]

For what it's worth, I don't put a whole lot of stock into combine testing as games in the real world have attributes like basketball-IQ and processing speed impacting how fast players actually are as they need to recognize plays and decide where to go, on top of actually running there, but the NBA released updated combine strength/agility results that included Kon Kneuppel. I suppose that rather than ducking the tests, he actually had some kind of injury at the time, and must have run them sometime in the last few days.

https://www.nba.com/stats/draft/combine-strength-agility?dir=D&sort=MAX_VERTICAL_LEAP

The results IMO were better than expected. The agility results were all in the lowest tier: nothing unexpected there. But the standing vertical leap and max vertical leap tests were actually good though, surpassing Cooper Flagg's.

Would love to know where those numbers came from, since Kon DID NOT do vert or any agility testing during the combine b/c he faked an ankle injury that he magically recovered from 3 days later to do a private pro day shooting exhibition.

So that's two times now we have proof that Kon avoids doing things he doesn't think he'll perform well in. He won't take pull up jumpers and he dodges draft combines. Starting to see a disturbing pattern here.

Agree this is a disturbing trend that Kon appears to be a front-runner. Instead of persevering through adversity, he shies away or ducks the challenge.

Not promising for his ability to perform in tough, physical playoff games.

[GutUNC]

The closer we get, the more I think the Sixers move up for Harper.

At what cost?

[Black Mage]

The closer we get, the more I think the Sixers move up for Harper.

At what cost?

Clips and a future Sixers pick Top 5 protected is fine with me. I think we'd be out to 2030 which is 5 years away. Joe's off his deal, PG is gone. Harper if he's the real deal is now an elite star player hopefully vying for All-NBA. That's enough to get this team out of the lottery by the time they need to convey the pick.

Think if we give up the Top 5 protected pick I'd push Spurs to give us their later 1st rnd pick too.

[Negrodamus]

I’m curious what Devin Booker’s pull up jumpers were like at Kentucky. Was definitely playing a role there on a stacked team much like Kon did at Duke. Not saying he’s going to be a great pull-up shooter, but it’s not unheard of.

[Arsenal]

This comment on the Draft board sums it up re: Kon's athletic ability. Only ONE halfcourt dunk in the entire season, surrounded by an elite team that totally outclassed most opponents and gave him wide open driving lanes.

Encouraging short shuttle. Worst in class lane agility time. Worst in class 3/4 sprint. Better than expected max vert.

Kon's lane agility time is the worst among non-frontcourt players in this class and bottom 10 among non-frontcourt players that tested in the past 5 years.

He can shuffle side to side well but loses all semblance of athleticism when having to string together multiple athletic moves (hence never seeing his decent max vert in game play at all with only 1 halfcourt dunk on the season)

[youngcrev]

This comment on the Draft board sums it up re: Kon's athletic ability. Only ONE halfcourt dunk in the entire season, surrounded by an elite team that totally outclassed most opponents and gave him wide open driving lanes.

Encouraging short shuttle. Worst in class lane agility time. Worst in class 3/4 sprint. Better than expected max vert.

Kon's lane agility time is the worst among non-frontcourt players in this class and bottom 10 among non-frontcourt players that tested in the past 5 years.

He can shuffle side to side well but loses all semblance of athleticism when having to string together multiple athletic moves (hence never seeing his decent max vert in game play at all with only 1 halfcourt dunk on the season)

Better vert than Ace...

[youngcrev]

For as much as I've flip flopped on some of these guys, I remain at these being the best options, in order:

Trade up for Harper
Trade down Kon+asset
Stay and take VJ

[Arsenal]

I’m curious what Devin Booker’s pull up jumpers were like at Kentucky. Was definitely playing a role there on a stacked team much like Kon did at Duke. Not saying he’s going to be a great pull-up shooter, but it’s not unheard of.

I don't know but Booker was the far superior prospect putting up similar numbers while a year and a half younger than the "freshman" Kneuppel, along with much better athletic testing and reach/length measurements.

Booker went #13 overall, which is around where Kon should be taken, somewhere in the back of the lotto. He's nowhere close to a top 3 pick.

[Black Mage]

I’m curious what Devin Booker’s pull up jumpers were like at Kentucky. Was definitely playing a role there on a stacked team much like Kon did at Duke. Not saying he’s going to be a great pull-up shooter, but it’s not unheard of.

Watch on YouTube

[mjkvol]

Yeah, but in this clip, he still shows he can blow by his man off the dribble and get paint touches. Once he’s in the lane, he’s got a deep bag, using a variety of moves to create space and finish with that soft shooting touch. I don’t expect him to beat most defenders in isolation, but off a screen, I think he can get downhill and make plays.

Yeah, his ability to create space using his body and footwork once in the paint is really impressive. He never seems to be rushed in any way, but is very patient finding the best look.

Except, that's not going to be how the NBA looks. He's going to be against stronger and equally sized bodied players that have longer wingspan and reach. He tries to do that dancing stuff in the lane and an NBA center is going to recover and eat those underhanded lobs to the basket for lunch.

Arsenal is right, Kon NEVER faced double or triple coverage. He had only his man to beat while 3 other defenders stood with backs turned watching their covers around the arc and the center glued to Maluach to avoid a lob/dunk.

Imagine what Ace does if all he had to do was beat ONE guy and then it's a cake walk to the lane.

Kon wouldn't know what to do if he had to face double and triple teams with his center unable to catch 10 foot lobs and his teammates at the arc shooting 23% from 3.

You're right, I was under the bizarre impression that a smart young player with some BB IQ isn't going to remain the exact same player he was in college but will instead work hard and find ways to grow and adjust his game beyond what he was as a college freshman. My bad.

[mjkvol]

I’m curious what Devin Booker’s pull up jumpers were like at Kentucky. Was definitely playing a role there on a stacked team much like Kon did at Duke. Not saying he’s going to be a great pull-up shooter, but it’s not unheard of.

I don't know but Booker was the far superior prospect putting up similar numbers while a year and a half younger than the "freshman" Kneuppel, along with much better athletic testing and reach/length measurements.

Booker went #13 overall, which is around where Kon should be taken, somewhere in the back of the lotto. He's nowhere close to a top 3 pick.

You keep saying that, but doesn't it depend on the draft itself? I don't see 12 players I'd rather have than Kon. Maybe you do, but you also want to hitch your wagon to the highest bust potential in the draft, because that's what you have to do when drafting in the top 3, come hell or high water.

[FireMorey]

The closer we get, the more I think the Sixers move up for Harper.

At what cost?

Clippers pick.

[Negrodamus]

If you remove Tre's 4 game stats in Dec where he only had 4 FTA, then his FTr bumps up to a compelling .319 FTr. He was consistently at 1 spg every month and I don't want to go through the total team possessions to calculate his STL% without the month of Nov where he was only averaging 0.7 spg, but I could see a world where he's close to that 2 STL% without that month.

Somewhat compelling, but the eye test still suggests he's doo doo on that end. But he's not a lost cause in terms of creating deflections. His lack rebounding might turn off someone like Morey. He's also not great at beating guys off the dribble.

[Negrodamus]

Watch on YouTube

Tre vs Edgecombe in HS. The meteoric rise of Edgecombe in HS really makes him alluring to me. His Jr and Sr years were really nice.

[Arsenal]

I’m curious what Devin Booker’s pull up jumpers were like at Kentucky. Was definitely playing a role there on a stacked team much like Kon did at Duke. Not saying he’s going to be a great pull-up shooter, but it’s not unheard of.

I don't know but Booker was the far superior prospect putting up similar numbers while a year and a half younger than the "freshman" Kneuppel, along with much better athletic testing and reach/length measurements.

Booker went #13 overall, which is around where Kon should be taken, somewhere in the back of the lotto. He's nowhere close to a top 3 pick.

You keep saying that, but doesn't it depend on the draft itself? I don't see 12 players I'd rather have than Kon. Maybe you do, but you also want to hitch your wagon to the highest bust potential in the draft, because that's what you have to do when drafting in the top 3, come hell or high water.

Sure it does. I've consistently said Kon should be a back of the lotto pick due to his limited upside. That would be the 10-14 range.

Here are 8 guys who should be picked before him:

Flagg
Harper
Bailey
Johnson
Essengue
Edgecombe
Fears
Jakucionis

Then Kon is in the mix among these players:

Maluach
Murray-Boyles
Coward
Queen
Newell
Richardson
McNeeley
Clifford
Demin
Sorber

He could be at the top, middle, or bottom of that group depending on what teams prioritize.

[M2J]

How would you guys say the meeting went with
VJ and Sixers when they started considering trading up rather than down? We all know he won't be going number 2 to the Spurs who have Castle, so not trading up for him. My reasoning says that at least displays their preferred interest isn't VJ, maybe it's Dylan... Maybe Ace. Wonder if they work out Tre?

Hope they find themselves worthy of Ace next week

It says nothing. Morey isn’t going to commit to one player while holding the 3rd pick. Anything can happen, so why be unprepared?

Workouts mean nothing, trading up and using assets says at least something