Poole party in Orlando

[Skybox]

If you want to debate whether or not ORL should even pursue Poole, there’s 10 pages in ORL threads…I’d love to keep this one limited to discussion about his realistic trade value. Depending on the season, or even the night, we all know Poole is either a scoring machine, a turnover machine, a clown, or a champion. We can all see he’s a bust risk at $31.8m and another season at $34m, or the missing piece as a backcourt offensive machine for ORL.

What’s realistic, given his contract, his upside, his downside, and ORL’s and WAS’s situation?


I’ll start…
ORL sends: KCP, Goga Bitadze, Cole Anthony, #46
WAS sends: Poole, Kispert

Why WAS…split up Poole’s deal into a veteran 3&D culture guy (dump Smart’s expiring elsewhere-KCP is better and a better fit with WAS’s young guards), Goga is a promising, inexpensive young bruiser that can play with and/or behind Sarr, and Cole’s expiring gives them relief from Kispert’s ill-advised extension. WAS is taking another year or so to develop young guys and get their finances in order for a big turn.

[giberish]

I think this general concept is possible. Rather than give up a 1st round pick for White/Simons/Sexton they just take on Poole's contract. They can match with some poor contracts of their own the Washington may find preferrable.

Washington isn't in a position to give a 1st to move Poole and the point for Orlando would be to get a scoring combo guard without giving up a 1st of their own.

[nykballa2k4]

I mean, if I am WAS, I am taking this and running with it. Goga is going to be useful if he plays and more useful to trade later. KCP should have value closer to the deadline. Cole Anthony is good in spurts, and #46 is a good position to get a developmental guy.

I like Kispert and wish he was on a team that would help him thrive. That probably isn't the Magic, but he should be in position to get some open looks for sure.

[Mavrelous]

ORL.shouldn't do this...
2 bad contracts when youbalready have ~80% of the cap on 3 players...

[nate33]

If you want to debate whether or not ORL should even pursue Poole, there’s 10 pages in ORL threads…I’d love to keep this one limited to discussion about his realistic trade value. Depending on the season, or even the night, we all know Poole is either a scoring machine, a turnover machine, a clown, or a champion. We can all see he’s a bust risk at $31.8m and another season at $34m, or the missing piece as a backcourt offensive machine for ORL.

What’s realistic, given his contract, his upside, his downside, and ORL’s and WAS’s situation?


I’ll start…
ORL sends: KCP, Goga Bitadze, Cole Anthony, #46
WAS sends: Poole, Kispert

Why WAS…split up Poole’s deal into a veteran 3&D culture guy (dump Smart’s expiring elsewhere-KCP is better and a better fit with WAS’s young guards), Goga is a promising, inexpensive young bruiser that can play with and/or behind Sarr, and Cole’s expiring gives them relief from Kispert’s ill-advised extension. WAS is taking another year or so to develop young guys and get their finances in order for a big turn.

This is not the kind of package that interests the Wizards. It's not even about the value, which is a little light, but it's more about their underlying goals. The Wizards don't care at all about getting back quality win-now players. They want prospects/picks who will be good 2-5 years from now.

KCP and Anthony are totally irrelevant. Goga is mildly interesting, but merely role playing depth. The #46 doesn't hold much value. I'd much rather just keep Poole who is better than all of these pieces and is also a good locker room influence and probably a better trade asset. Heck, maybe they'll keep him on his next contract if a reasonable price can be negotiated.

The Wizards are asking for two FRP's which is unrealistic, but I really don't think they would part with Poole unless at least one FRP was involved.

If you want to argue that KCP and/or Goga have positive value and could possibly be turned into pick capital, that's fine. Find the teams who want those guys and will spend picks to acquire them, and include them into this deal. Otherwise, it's pure conjecture.

[orlando_joe]

is not cole just a 20 mill a yr less exp poole?...kispert is just long bad contract that should cost to move..lol
i really do not see how this makes magic better just puts them over 2nd apron next season ..i do mean 26/27 as next season
i keep kcp defense let cole expire and keep goga as insurance over move like this

[Magic_Johnny12]

I personally like this iteration better.

Cole Anthony (expiring)
Jonathan Isaac (flexible contract)
Jett Howard (young prospect Washington can test out)
#46

For

Jordan Poole
Sadiq Bey

Orlando frees up a roster spot, sheds salary and keeps KCP which I think it’s important for this season as many forget Suggs is recovering from a knee injury that Orlando will absolutely baby and bring him back slowly.

KCP can be moved at deadline or next summer when he’s easier to move as an expiring.

[hugepatsfan]

If you want to debate whether or not ORL should even pursue Poole, there’s 10 pages in ORL threads…I’d love to keep this one limited to discussion about his realistic trade value. Depending on the season, or even the night, we all know Poole is either a scoring machine, a turnover machine, a clown, or a champion. We can all see he’s a bust risk at $31.8m and another season at $34m, or the missing piece as a backcourt offensive machine for ORL.

What’s realistic, given his contract, his upside, his downside, and ORL’s and WAS’s situation?


I’ll start…
ORL sends: KCP, Goga Bitadze, Cole Anthony, #46
WAS sends: Poole, Kispert

Why WAS…split up Poole’s deal into a veteran 3&D culture guy (dump Smart’s expiring elsewhere-KCP is better and a better fit with WAS’s young guards), Goga is a promising, inexpensive young bruiser that can play with and/or behind Sarr, and Cole’s expiring gives them relief from Kispert’s ill-advised extension. WAS is taking another year or so to develop young guys and get their finances in order for a big turn.

This is not the kind of package that interests the Wizards. It's not even about the value, which is a little light, but it's more about their underlying goals. The Wizards don't care at all about getting back quality win-now players. They want prospects/picks who will be good 2-5 years from now.

KCP and Anthony are totally irrelevant. Goga is mildly interesting, but merely role playing depth. The #46 doesn't hold much value. I'd much rather just keep Poole who is better than all of these pieces and is also a good locker room influence and probably a better trade asset. Heck, maybe they'll keep him on his next contract if a reasonable price can be negotiated.

The Wizards are asking for two FRP's which is unrealistic, but I really don't think they would part with Poole unless at least one FRP was involved.

If you want to argue that KCP and/or Goga have positive value and could possibly be turned into pick capital, that's fine. Find the teams who want those guys and will spend picks to acquire them, and include them into this deal. Otherwise, it's pure conjecture.

Goga and KCP are better players than Poole.

[nate33]

If you want to debate whether or not ORL should even pursue Poole, there’s 10 pages in ORL threads…I’d love to keep this one limited to discussion about his realistic trade value. Depending on the season, or even the night, we all know Poole is either a scoring machine, a turnover machine, a clown, or a champion. We can all see he’s a bust risk at $31.8m and another season at $34m, or the missing piece as a backcourt offensive machine for ORL.

What’s realistic, given his contract, his upside, his downside, and ORL’s and WAS’s situation?


I’ll start…
ORL sends: KCP, Goga Bitadze, Cole Anthony, #46
WAS sends: Poole, Kispert

Why WAS…split up Poole’s deal into a veteran 3&D culture guy (dump Smart’s expiring elsewhere-KCP is better and a better fit with WAS’s young guards), Goga is a promising, inexpensive young bruiser that can play with and/or behind Sarr, and Cole’s expiring gives them relief from Kispert’s ill-advised extension. WAS is taking another year or so to develop young guys and get their finances in order for a big turn.

This is not the kind of package that interests the Wizards. It's not even about the value, which is a little light, but it's more about their underlying goals. The Wizards don't care at all about getting back quality win-now players. They want prospects/picks who will be good 2-5 years from now.

KCP and Anthony are totally irrelevant. Goga is mildly interesting, but merely role playing depth. The #46 doesn't hold much value. I'd much rather just keep Poole who is better than all of these pieces and is also a good locker room influence and probably a better trade asset. Heck, maybe they'll keep him on his next contract if a reasonable price can be negotiated.

The Wizards are asking for two FRP's which is unrealistic, but I really don't think they would part with Poole unless at least one FRP was involved.

If you want to argue that KCP and/or Goga have positive value and could possibly be turned into pick capital, that's fine. Find the teams who want those guys and will spend picks to acquire them, and include them into this deal. Otherwise, it's pure conjecture.

Goga and KCP are better players than Poole.

"Better player" depends on what you need. Poole averages 25 points per 36 on a TS% of .591 for a team with a TS% of .542. The ability to score in volume with that kind of efficiency despite having teammates who attract no defensive attention is a rare skill. Guys that can do that are harder to find than over-the-hill 3&D shooting guards like KCP whose "D" isn't what it once was.

That's all I'm going to say on the matter. I get some people just hate Poole's prototype. That's fine. If you don't like him, I'm not going to argue with you about it.

[Magic_Johnny12]

This is not the kind of package that interests the Wizards. It's not even about the value, which is a little light, but it's more about their underlying goals. The Wizards don't care at all about getting back quality win-now players. They want prospects/picks who will be good 2-5 years from now.

KCP and Anthony are totally irrelevant. Goga is mildly interesting, but merely role playing depth. The #46 doesn't hold much value. I'd much rather just keep Poole who is better than all of these pieces and is also a good locker room influence and probably a better trade asset. Heck, maybe they'll keep him on his next contract if a reasonable price can be negotiated.

The Wizards are asking for two FRP's which is unrealistic, but I really don't think they would part with Poole unless at least one FRP was involved.

If you want to argue that KCP and/or Goga have positive value and could possibly be turned into pick capital, that's fine. Find the teams who want those guys and will spend picks to acquire them, and include them into this deal. Otherwise, it's pure conjecture.

Goga and KCP are better players than Poole.

like KCP whose "D" isn't what it once was.

Come again?

You mean “3” right?

His defense is still elite, actually better than his last year in Denver.

If you meant his 3 pt shot then I will agree, but think that has more to do with Orlando poor offensive system then KCP himself.

[Skybox]

Poole had a great year. Last year he was a deep negative...my proposal is all about WAS getting off of him. If WAS fans feel that their FO is happy to just keep him-there won't be a deal. I don't think that's the case. I think WAS would be happy to get out of his deal and gain some assets and some flexibility.

There are many other seemingly available Lead Guards out there with smaller expiring deals that likely won't even get extensions to match Poole's. NONE of them have the perceived volatility of Poole either...and you could argue that Poole's upside is equal or better than any of the usual ORL trade suspects...Simons, Sexton, Coby White, McCollum...they've all got questions, Poole might have the most and the worst deal - this is what makes him interesting to ORL...the possibility of getting him without sending out one or more frps. If WAS pushes back too much, they'll end up keeping him, which some seem to be okay with.

Poole is the latest Agent Zero/Hibachi/Shaqtin' a Fool gamble at $30m+...I'm in, but it could easily fall apart if the deal isn't easy.

[nate33]

Poole had a great year. Last year he was a deep negative...my proposal is all about WAS getting off of him. If WAS fans feel that their FO is happy to just keep him-there won't be a deal. I don't think that's the case. I think WAS would be happy to get out of his deal and gain some assets and some flexibility.

There are many other seemingly available Lead Guards out there with smaller expiring deals that likely won't even get extensions to match Poole's. NONE of them have the perceived volatility of Poole either...and you could argue that Poole's upside is equal or better than any of the usual ORL trade suspects...Simons, Sexton, Coby White, McCollum...they've all got questions, Poole might have the most and the worst deal - this is what makes him interesting to ORL...the possibility of getting him without sending out one or more frps. If WAS pushes back too much, they'll end up keeping him, which some seem to be okay with.

Poole is the latest Agent Zero/Hibachi/Shaqtin' a Fool gamble at $30m+...I'm in, but it could easily fall apart if the deal isn't easy.

I honestly think the Wizards are totally fine keeping Poole for the duration of his contract. He actually serves a pretty useful purpose here for two reasons. First, he is a great example to the youngsters because of his work ethic. Dude works on his game non-stop. And second, his ability to take on high usage allows the other guys to operate in an offensive role that is more in line with their skillset. Guys like Sarr and Bilal do not need a usage of 25%. They can't handle it at this stage of their development.

That might change if the Wizards landed a legit first option scorer like Harper in the draft, but they didn't. So, for now, Poole is filling a need nicely. He had such a good offensive season last year, that I think the Wizards are testing the trade waters to see if they can sell high on him, but if nothing materializes, the Wizards are fine. They're definitely not looking to just dump him.

One more thing: getting off of Poole's contract next summer isn't an issue. In fact, the Wizards' payroll will already be $65M UNDER the cap given the current players on the roster (including Poole and their two FRP's this year). Add in another two FRP's in 2026 and they'll still be $50M under the cap. It's going to be hard enough to spend enough money to get up to the cap minimum with Poole's salary still on the books.

I'm not saying all this as some sort of negotiating tactic. I'm just saying you are mistaken if you think Poole can be obtained for a collection of filler contracts. If you are unwilling to pay more, I totally understand.

[Devilanche]

He’s worth expiring and some minor values (equivalent to 2nds) .

Too high a salary risk to trade for unless you are sure he’s the right fit on your team.

If value is too low for Washington best to look elsewhere. I don’t believe he’s the best candidate available for them that may cost up to a 1st.


No way he fetch 2 first based on how he has been so far .

[tiderulz]

is not cole just a 20 mill a yr less exp poole?...kispert is just long bad contract that should cost to move..lol
i really do not see how this makes magic better just puts them over 2nd apron next season ..i do mean 26/27 as next season
i keep kcp defense let cole expire and keep goga as insurance over move like this

while Im not a big Poole fan, Poole is much better offensively than Cole.

[Magic_Johnny12]

is not cole just a 20 mill a yr less exp poole?...kispert is just long bad contract that should cost to move..lol
i really do not see how this makes magic better just puts them over 2nd apron next season ..i do mean 26/27 as next season
i keep kcp defense let cole expire and keep goga as insurance over move like this

while Im not a big Poole fan, Poole is much better offensively than Cole.

Comparing Cole to Poole is as bad as us calling Chuma Kwahi lite

[orlando_joe]

is not cole just a 20 mill a yr less exp poole?...kispert is just long bad contract that should cost to move..lol
i really do not see how this makes magic better just puts them over 2nd apron next season ..i do mean 26/27 as next season
i keep kcp defense let cole expire and keep goga as insurance over move like this

while Im not a big Poole fan, Poole is much better offensively than Cole.

i do not think worth 20 mill more a yr and the 2nd yr of contract ...but if you allow cole to take as many dumb shots as he wants he can score
and get you more rb and more ast

[Laimbeer]

Poole isn't that huge of a gamble from a contract standpoint. He has two years. It will take a season to see if it's going to work. If not, he's an expiring next summer - easier to move.

I think the Lakers would be interested in Goga and KCP as a third team. Assets is another matter.

[orlando_joe]

is not cole just a 20 mill a yr less exp poole?...kispert is just long bad contract that should cost to move..lol
i really do not see how this makes magic better just puts them over 2nd apron next season ..i do mean 26/27 as next season
i keep kcp defense let cole expire and keep goga as insurance over move like this

while Im not a big Poole fan, Poole is much better offensively than Cole.

Comparing Cole to Poole is as bad as us calling Chuma Kwahi lite

no not really

[gswhoops]

is not cole just a 20 mill a yr less exp poole?...kispert is just long bad contract that should cost to move..lol
i really do not see how this makes magic better just puts them over 2nd apron next season ..i do mean 26/27 as next season
i keep kcp defense let cole expire and keep goga as insurance over move like this

while Im not a big Poole fan, Poole is much better offensively than Cole.

i do not think worth 20 mill more a yr and the 2nd yr of contract ...but if you allow cole to take as many dumb shots as he wants he can score
and get you more rb and more ast

Poole scored 20 ppg on a TS% of 59.1, which isn’t great but isn’t terrible for a first option on a team with no other reliable scorers.

Cole scored 9 ppg on a TS% of 53.1 and saw his minutes go down for the 3rd straight year despite Orlando being desperate for guard scoring.

If you don’t want Poole’s contract, fine, but let’s not pretend that he wouldn’t be a HUGE upgrade over Cole on the court.

[GatherStepGuru]

Idk if Orl is willing to part with the pieces WAS would want to get Poole, short of a 1st. WAS actually values him, and he only has 2 years left on his deal. Washington isn’t gonna dump his him for cap space; they have enough.

I think a realistic trade would have to include Wendell Carter, Anthony Black, or Tristan De Silva, then possibly filler. Maybe even that late 2025 1st.