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2025 Draft prospects - thread 3

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Re: 2025 Draft prospects - thread 2 

Post#161 » by 2weekswithpay » Sat Jun 14, 2025 4:18 pm

drosestruts wrote:
2weekswithpay wrote:
drosestruts wrote:
I agree

And I feel like the "he's short" criticism doesn't hold much water, like finish the sentence he's short so he won't be able to....

Score at the rim? Actually he's one of the better at the rim finishers amongst all guards in the draft

Create space? He's got very good handles and moves great off the ball

Score in the mid-range? Again, one of the better prospects in the draft scoring in the mid range

Hit the three? he's a sniper

Guard effectivley? He's got a 6'6" wingspan


Jase only drives left. I wouldn't say he has great handles.

Basketball is a tall man's game. Everything is harder when you're short, and Jase being short is compounded by not being the PG at Michigan State.


So weird that everyone knows Jase can only drive left and yet he seems to be able to do so whenever he wants, get to his spots, and score efficiently from all three-levels.

If Jase were taller and scored better with both hands he'd be a lock for a top-3 pick.

But here we re talking about pick 12 - where any player we draft will have areas of improvement. But Jase will have far less than most players we've been discussing.


It's college basketball. The talent level is vastly inferior to that of the NBA across the board. There are things you can get away with in college that won't happen in the NBA.

Areas of improvement and effectiveness at the NBA aren't always correlated.
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Re: 2025 Draft prospects - thread 2 

Post#162 » by drosestruts » Sat Jun 14, 2025 4:22 pm

DuckIII wrote:
drosestruts wrote:
2weekswithpay wrote:
Jase only drives left. I wouldn't say he has great handles.

Basketball is a tall man's game. Everything is harder when you're short, and Jase being short is compounded by not being the PG at Michigan State.


So weird that everyone knows Jase can only drive left and yet he seems to be able to do so whenever he wants, get to his spots, and score efficiently from all three-levels.

If Jase were taller and scored better with both hands he'd be a lock for a top-3 pick.

But here we re talking about pick 12 - where any player we draft will have areas of improvement. But Jase will have far less than most players we've been discussing.


Some things can be fixed and some can’t. Height doesn’t change. And how is it that a 6 foot guard, with an NBA dad, who presumably spent his entire youth basketball life learning at the highest levels we offer in the US, not be equally strong going both ways? My youngest son who is a freshman in HS is nearly equally strong going both ways already as is 90% of his AAU team. If you are gifted and put in some work, it’s not that hard. Especially when you are a short guard who kinda has to learn it. That said, I guess he could still get better at it. It’s just not a great backdrop for assuming it.

Plus his athleticism does not offset his height. It’s just okay. Slightly above average based on combine data for leaping, and pretty troubling in speed and quickness for a little guy:

- tied with KJ in lane agility with a relatively low rank.
- got smoked by both KJ and Demin of all people in the shuttle run and ranked low over all,
- his sprint speed in the 30 was tied with KJ and 0.10 behind a plodder like Demin and ranked below mid (22 out of 34)

These are very bad things for a guy I can look straight in the eye. I used KJ and Demin as comps because they are largely considered weak in the “athlete” department. And KJ and Demin are 6’6 and 6’9.

While there are guys with “more areas of improvement” that people prefer more, it’s because there is the ability to make those improvements as a physical matters. And the ceiling, if that improvement is reached, is much higher than a somewhat slow yet moderately athletic 6 foot shooter with long arms (his 6’6 wingspan is nice, but it still averages out at average for a PG and 3 inches below average for a SG so it’s not a trump card to being tiny).

I think there are drafts in which I would have Jase in the top 10. Just not in this one. At least not for the Bulls. If a more stable team is looking specifically for a scoring guard to fill a specific role right away, I could see him going top 12 as well. He’s not a bad prospect. I just don’t think he makes any sense - at all - for Chicago as either BPA or a fit.


One distinction I'd like to get better clarifty on is - can Jase Richardson not go right or is Jase so good at getting where he wants he simply rarely does?

There's a big difference between the two

The recent scouting video above mentions he doesn't go right much but that this didn't affect his ability to impact the game. He also states he didn't see Jase even attempt to finish with his right more than 3-5 times this year.

I'd argue an absence of evidence isn't proof he can't do something.

46% FG% as the ball handler in the pick and roll. 1.1 PPP. 95th percentile in the NCAA.

It's just hard for me to view his perceived lack of right handed finishing as an issue, when without it he was still just so effective.

Certainly would have been nice to see.

But the questions for me remains - what negative impact did this have? And when looking at his performance and his numbers I can't see anything.

I myself often compare him to Jared McCain who I'm well aware went 16th overall last year, but who i'm willing to bet would go much higher in a redraft.
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Re: 2025 Draft prospects - thread 2 

Post#163 » by Jcool0 » Sat Jun 14, 2025 4:26 pm

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Re: 2025 Draft prospects - thread 2 

Post#164 » by JohnnyKILLroy » Sat Jun 14, 2025 4:51 pm

Muzbar wrote:
ThisGuyFawkes wrote:Ok, I'm not sure if we're all talking about the same Beringer. This fellow is not good at basketball. He's blocking 6'4" dudes in the Adriatic League that just randomly bulldoze into him. And on 33% of those bulldozes (figure made up by me), he completely obliterates them with a foul.

He has absolutely no offensive game to speak of.

He's a decent rebounder for his size but nothing special (once again, in the Adriatic League). He looks like he belongs on the Isle of Misfit Toys trying to wrestle a loose ball from a grown Adriatic male.

I wouldn't even consider him with the 2nd round pick when guys like Rocco could be available. Please someone let me know if I've grossly miscalculated this evaluation.


I fully agree.

He just looks like an athlete. I don't see a basketball player whenever I watch him. I'd gladly take any other center (other than Derik Queen) over Beringer. He looks so janky.


He literally started playing basketball yesterday. The competition he’s playing at is very impressive for a kid that started playing basketball yesterday.
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Re: 2025 Draft prospects - thread 2 

Post#165 » by jump » Sat Jun 14, 2025 5:23 pm

JohnnyKILLroy wrote:
Muzbar wrote:
ThisGuyFawkes wrote:Ok, I'm not sure if we're all talking about the same Beringer. This fellow is not good at basketball. He's blocking 6'4" dudes in the Adriatic League that just randomly bulldoze into him. And on 33% of those bulldozes (figure made up by me), he completely obliterates them with a foul.

He has absolutely no offensive game to speak of.

He's a decent rebounder for his size but nothing special (once again, in the Adriatic League). He looks like he belongs on the Isle of Misfit Toys trying to wrestle a loose ball from a grown Adriatic male.

I wouldn't even consider him with the 2nd round pick when guys like Rocco could be available. Please someone let me know if I've grossly miscalculated this evaluation.


I fully agree.

He just looks like an athlete. I don't see a basketball player whenever I watch him. I'd gladly take any other center (other than Derik Queen) over Beringer. He looks so janky.


He literally started playing basketball yesterday. The competition he’s playing at is very impressive for a kid that started playing basketball yesterday.


I'm not interested in someone who started playing basketball yesterday. Hi entire first contract will be spent developing him, which may or may not be successful. Athleticism is just not enough to go on.
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Re: 2025 Draft prospects - thread 2 

Post#166 » by Chi town » Sat Jun 14, 2025 6:17 pm

drosestruts wrote:In general, as a draft guy, I'm pretty risk-averse. I perhaps lean more towards players who floors I'm comfortable with than whose cielings I'm excited about (though just because a player has a good floor does not mean his ceiling is limited)

It's why my top 4 preferred players remain guys like - KJ, Kalkbrenner, Richardson, and Clifford.

But when I start dreaming, the guy I do really like is Saraf.

A lot of comments about the competition level he plays against with Ulm.

Well if we look at the Euro U18 tournament we can see his performance in comparison to, and in some cases directly against other playersin this draft class.

In U18 Saraf averaged 28, 5, and 5 to go along with 5 stocks on 45/36/76 shooting splits.

He scored 40 points in games against both Spain (Hugo Gonzales) and Serbia

He had 23, 5, and 5 with 3 stocks and 0 turnovers and a +16 against a France team featuring Essengue, Traore, and Beringer

KJ also played in the tournament though they never played head to head. Saraf's stats were far better.


If I were trying to make a big move in the draft - Saraf would be my guy. A Dragic, Ginobli, TJ McConnell hybird



You take him at 12?

Who in the board would you take over him?

You like him enough to trade back to 15 or 16 and take him there while getting another 1st.

Totally agree about his U18 showing. Kid has a higher ceiling than people realize and he’s being underrated.
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Re: 2025 Draft prospects - thread 2 

Post#167 » by HomoSapien » Sat Jun 14, 2025 6:26 pm

Maybe I need to watch more film on Beringer but so far he's a hard pass for me at 12. His only offensive move appears to be dunk. Am I wrong on that?
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Re: 2025 Draft prospects - thread 2 

Post#168 » by Chi town » Sat Jun 14, 2025 6:27 pm

https://youtu.be/R1Ei6pnHVpU?si=gVf7ZE3_m-LVwarG

Noa vs. Saraf U18. Saraf was MVP.

Saraf can do so much on both ends that I’ve moved him over Coward.

Noa
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Re: 2025 Draft prospects - thread 2 

Post#169 » by DuckIII » Sat Jun 14, 2025 6:31 pm

HomoSapien wrote:Maybe I need to watch more film on Beringer but so far he's a hard pass for me at 12. His only offensive move appears to be dunk. Am I wrong on that?


No, that’s pretty much it on offense for now.
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Re: 2025 Draft prospects - thread 2 

Post#170 » by WesPeace » Sat Jun 14, 2025 6:54 pm

HomoSapien wrote:Maybe I need to watch more film on Beringer but so far he's a hard pass for me at 12. His only offensive move appears to be dunk. Am I wrong on that?


He isnt projected to be top 15 pick anyway.. late first rounder, 18 and lower
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Re: 2025 Draft prospects - thread 2 

Post#171 » by DuckIII » Sat Jun 14, 2025 6:57 pm

WesPeace wrote:
HomoSapien wrote:Maybe I need to watch more film on Beringer but so far he's a hard pass for me at 12. His only offensive move appears to be dunk. Am I wrong on that?


He isnt projected to be top 15 pick anyway.. late first rounder, 18 and lower


That’s been changing recently. And when it starts changing for freak athletes like Beringer, it usually keeps changing in the same direction.

Hard draft to predict though.
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Re: 2025 Draft prospects - thread 3 

Post#172 » by JohnnyKILLroy » Sat Jun 14, 2025 10:12 pm

I wouldn’t quickly dismiss an 18yr old bigger and longer Nic Claxton. Beringer is definitely in the 1% athletically and defensively.
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Re: 2025 Draft prospects - thread 2 

Post#173 » by Muzbar » Sat Jun 14, 2025 10:20 pm

JohnnyKILLroy wrote:
Muzbar wrote:
ThisGuyFawkes wrote:Ok, I'm not sure if we're all talking about the same Beringer. This fellow is not good at basketball. He's blocking 6'4" dudes in the Adriatic League that just randomly bulldoze into him. And on 33% of those bulldozes (figure made up by me), he completely obliterates them with a foul.

He has absolutely no offensive game to speak of.

He's a decent rebounder for his size but nothing special (once again, in the Adriatic League). He looks like he belongs on the Isle of Misfit Toys trying to wrestle a loose ball from a grown Adriatic male.

I wouldn't even consider him with the 2nd round pick when guys like Rocco could be available. Please someone let me know if I've grossly miscalculated this evaluation.


I fully agree.

He just looks like an athlete. I don't see a basketball player whenever I watch him. I'd gladly take any other center (other than Derik Queen) over Beringer. He looks so janky.


He literally started playing basketball yesterday. The competition he’s playing at is very impressive for a kid that started playing basketball yesterday.

OK, he didn't literally start playing basketball yesterday, but I get your point. But that just further proves my point, he doesn't look like a basketball player because he's only really got into playing ball somewhat recently because he's tall and athletic.

Easy pass for me.
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Re: 2025 Draft prospects - thread 2 

Post#174 » by Muzbar » Sat Jun 14, 2025 10:22 pm

Jcool0 wrote:
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But I thought Kon wasn't going to participate in combine drills because he knows he's a bad athlete...?
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Re: 2025 Draft prospects - thread 3 

Post#175 » by 2weekswithpay » Sat Jun 14, 2025 11:18 pm

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Re: 2025 Draft prospects - thread 2 

Post#176 » by Jcool0 » Sun Jun 15, 2025 12:02 am

Muzbar wrote:
Jcool0 wrote:
Read on Twitter

But I thought Kon wasn't going to participate in combine drills because he knows he's a bad athlete...?


If he didn't do it he wouldn't be eligible for the draft.
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Re: 2025 Draft prospects - thread 2 

Post#177 » by DuckIII » Sun Jun 15, 2025 12:05 am

Jcool0 wrote:
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Not great, but he’s certainly no stiff. That’s good enough.
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Re: 2025 Draft prospects - thread 2 

Post#178 » by DuckIII » Sun Jun 15, 2025 12:07 am

Jcool0 wrote:
Muzbar wrote:
Jcool0 wrote:
Read on Twitter

But I thought Kon wasn't going to participate in combine drills because he knows he's a bad athlete...?


If he didn't do it he wouldn't be eligible for the draft.


He was joking. One of our resident draft experts claimed Kon wouldn’t participate in the combine because he knew he would expose himself as a stiff.
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Re: 2025 Draft prospects - thread 2 

Post#179 » by Muzbar » Sun Jun 15, 2025 12:08 am

Jcool0 wrote:
Muzbar wrote:
Jcool0 wrote:
Read on Twitter

But I thought Kon wasn't going to participate in combine drills because he knows he's a bad athlete...?


If he didn't do it he wouldn't be eligible for the draft.

I know.

It was aimed at a comment someone else nonsensically made in regards to him being a bad athlete.
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Re: 2025 Draft prospects - thread 3 

Post#180 » by kodo » Sun Jun 15, 2025 1:02 am

It's kinda clear he's not an explosive athlete from his play.
Doug McDermott also had good combine results:

Vertical: 36.5"
Lane Agility: 11.10
3/4 Sprint: 3.29

I wouldn't draft Kon on his athleticism, he's worth drafting purely as a shooter.

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