Tom Thibodeau fired pt 2

[Gravy]

so, how we feeling about thibs getting fired today?

Same as yesterday.

I just want my Johnnie Bryant and veteran coach combo all this other stuff isn't fun.

This. I don't think this team needs some vet coach - they need a better offensive/defensive system - a coach that calls set plays.

so, how we feeling about thibs getting fired today?

I would've kept him. I think Thibs earned at least one more season. Best season in 25 years and had the support of the captain. And at least with Thibs we knew we'd win 50 plus and be in the playoffs. That is never ever a guarantee. There was a certain comfort with him knowing we'd be a good team.

We'll see how his replacement does but I would not be the least bit surprised if we underachieve and want him fired.

And I hate how this coaching search had gone down with all the LOLKNICKS ****.

Context is important which is why the "best season in 25 years" thing is overblown to me. This team going into the season had the 3rd best title odds, nearly tied with OKC for 2nd. It was a roster that should have made the ECF - the cavs being as good as they were threw a wrech in it by the Celtics finishing 2nd instead of 3rd. But beating the Celtics as great as it was also needs the context of how many issues that team was facing - and yet it still took a couple miraculous comebacks that I'm unsure should be accredited to the coach. I agree there was a comfort of a FLOOR with Thibs - but there was also a concern with the ceiling. The window this team has and the roster it has, I would gladly trade the odds for a potentially higher ceiling for a lower floor. As I said earlier, context matters and has to be considered - the knicks were essentially FULLY HEALHTY at the right time and still struggled through nearly every game of the playoffs. The opportunity was golden by getting past a weakened Celtics team and the Cavs having been taken care of. My concern for the next coach is how probable is it that OG/Kat/Mitch is going to be healthy for next years playoffs? If they're not and knicks lose I'm sure the Thibs defenders will not take that into consideration.

I get puzzled by how many fans have a deep personal hate for Thibs. He wasn't Isiah Thomas, he had the most success here in 25 years. He can be frustrating to fans and players and has faults like every coach; ie. Butler trying to fist fight Spo during a game, Kerr vs Kuminga...

I agree with Josh Hart, you dont have to like his coaching philosophy but give him credit for help taking us this far and dragging us out the mud. Thibs hadnt been gone a week and the Knicks are already a laughing stock around the NBA again with the coaching search. This is a tough franchise to have success in.

Sure he deserves a lot of credit, but a lot of the dragging out of the mud stuff is just as much due to the front office (Leon) improving the roster with quality moves. knicks being a laughing stock now as it relates to the coaching search is no different to me than brunson being considered an unwatchable foul baiter during this playoff run. It's LoL knicks for clicks nonsense.

The first season Thibs was here the only thing Leon did to the roster was add Derrick Rose who was washed and did nothing on the Pistons previously, or with us before that. Thibs got them to the 4th seed.

If the Wizards got to the ecf for the first time in forever, immediately fired the coach that got them there and started asking other franchises to speak to their coaches under contract it would look weird af too.

[kNicksGmen]

Same as yesterday.

I just want my Johnnie Bryant and veteran coach combo all this other stuff isn't fun.

This. I don't think this team needs some vet coach - they need a better offensive/defensive system - a coach that calls set plays.

I would've kept him. I think Thibs earned at least one more season. Best season in 25 years and had the support of the captain. And at least with Thibs we knew we'd win 50 plus and be in the playoffs. That is never ever a guarantee. There was a certain comfort with him knowing we'd be a good team.

We'll see how his replacement does but I would not be the least bit surprised if we underachieve and want him fired.

And I hate how this coaching search had gone down with all the LOLKNICKS ****.

Context is important which is why the "best season in 25 years" thing is overblown to me. This team going into the season had the 3rd best title odds, nearly tied with OKC for 2nd. It was a roster that should have made the ECF - the cavs being as good as they were threw a wrech in it by the Celtics finishing 2nd instead of 3rd. But beating the Celtics as great as it was also needs the context of how many issues that team was facing - and yet it still took a couple miraculous comebacks that I'm unsure should be accredited to the coach. I agree there was a comfort of a FLOOR with Thibs - but there was also a concern with the ceiling. The window this team has and the roster it has, I would gladly trade the odds for a potentially higher ceiling for a lower floor. As I said earlier, context matters and has to be considered - the knicks were essentially FULLY HEALHTY at the right time and still struggled through nearly every game of the playoffs. The opportunity was golden by getting past a weakened Celtics team and the Cavs having been taken care of. My concern for the next coach is how probable is it that OG/Kat/Mitch is going to be healthy for next years playoffs? If they're not and knicks lose I'm sure the Thibs defenders will not take that into consideration.

I get puzzled by how many fans have a deep personal hate for Thibs. He wasn't Isiah Thomas, he had the most success here in 25 years. He can be frustrating to fans and players and has faults like every coach; ie. Butler trying to fist fight Spo during a game, Kerr vs Kuminga...

I agree with Josh Hart, you dont have to like his coaching philosophy but give him credit for help taking us this far and dragging us out the mud. Thibs hadnt been gone a week and the Knicks are already a laughing stock around the NBA again with the coaching search. This is a tough franchise to have success in.

Sure he deserves a lot of credit, but a lot of the dragging out of the mud stuff is just as much due to the front office (Leon) improving the roster with quality moves. knicks being a laughing stock now as it relates to the coaching search is no different to me than brunson being considered an unwatchable foul baiter during this playoff run. It's LoL knicks for clicks nonsense.

The first season Thibs was here the only thing Leon did to the roster was add Derrick Rose who was washed and did nothing on the Pistons previously, or with us before that. Thibs got them to the 4th seed.

If the Wizards got to the ecf for the first time in forever, immediately fired the coach that got them there and started asking other franchises to speak to their coaches under contract it would look weird af too.

Burks, Noel, Quickley, Rivers, Rose, Toppin were all new. Also RJ with 1 more year experience.

Not to downplay the achievement - because that was his best coaching year relative to expectations - but if I remember correctly the knicks had some absurd 3 point variance luck that season as far as teams shooting far below their expected averages based on shot quality etc - essentially Thibs ran his defense to pack the paint and as a result leave shooters open, and knicks got lucky teams didn't make them pay. Knicks defense was ranked really high that year (highest of his tenure as a knicks coach I believe) but the defense wasn't actually that good - again variance/luck played a big factor.

Randle also had a career year - you can credit that to the coach for sure. The knicks still were around .500 I think until the trade for Rose and he was outstanding. Again you can credit Thibs for that.

[Guano]

That BT response to jHart is trashy....


With that said I can see why some knick fans might have ill will towards thibs and carry that. We had a legit shot at a ring this year and that game 1 collapse all but nuked it.

Im of the opinion that were not ever in that position without thibs. And that the players need to be held accountable for thst collapse, too.

And that no single event is sole reason for us failing in that series. There was still opportunities to win the series. But its hard not to be frustrated and feel a lil shtty over the what ifs.

Anyways I fck with thibs. Always will. He was an integral part of somw of the funnest times I've had as a knicks fan.

One of my fondest memories was of him cracking jokes at a presser about Brunson and jHart that cracked himself up. I love that type of characteristic in people.

Hope he finds peace and joy in his next chapter. He has earned it. For doing the impossible with the team he loves, we love.

Its beautiful outside and I'm feeling it

[kNicksGmen]

The first season Thibs was here the only thing Leon did to the roster was add Derrick Rose who was washed and did nothing on the Pistons previously, or with us before that. Thibs got them to the 4th seed.

If the Wizards got to the ecf for the first time in forever, immediately fired the coach that got them there and started asking other franchises to speak to their coaches under contract it would look weird af too.

Also specifically the wizards comp - the context matters obviously. If it was a gradual improvement over 5 years and then through cashing in virtually the entirety of their assets they put together a roster that was widely considered top 3/5 (top 2 in the east) and then got to the ECF - the context matters.

It's not like Thibs took a bunch of bums to the ECF - this team was on paper supposed to be a top 2/3 offense.

Focusing solely on the "best season in 25 years, got to the ECF" and ignoring the context of everything is misleading. The team had issues all year - Thibs was largely expected to be let go after we got blown out by the Celtics - which would have happened most likely if they were healthy. We could have very easily lost to a far inferior pistons team.

[BKlutch]

Context is important which is why the "best season in 25 years" thing is overblown to me. This team going into the season had the 3rd best title odds, nearly tied with OKC for 2nd. It was a roster that should have made the ECF - the cavs being as good as they were threw a wrech in it by the Celtics finishing 2nd instead of 3rd. But beating the Celtics as great as it was also needs the context of how many issues that team was facing - and yet it still took a couple miraculous comebacks that I'm unsure should be accredited to the coach...

I'd like to address only your use of odds, as in the bolded part. I too was disappointed we fell to Indy, moreso because of the things we didn't do that I'd expected we would. But it's important that we keep in mind when the odds are in favor of one team, we aren't "supposed to win." It's just that the odds are more likely in favor of one team. Many times, the less favored team does win.

Think of it as a nothing is preordained. If the odds that were all that counted, we'd just all play NBA 2K and forget the live games.Compare it to the brackets for March Madness - we all know which teams the odds favor, but how many of us accurately pick the entire tournament correctly? Very few!

[kNicksGmen]

Context is important which is why the "best season in 25 years" thing is overblown to me. This team going into the season had the 3rd best title odds, nearly tied with OKC for 2nd. It was a roster that should have made the ECF - the cavs being as good as they were threw a wrech in it by the Celtics finishing 2nd instead of 3rd. But beating the Celtics as great as it was also needs the context of how many issues that team was facing - and yet it still took a couple miraculous comebacks that I'm unsure should be accredited to the coach...

I'd like to address only your use of odds, as in the bolded part. I too was disappointed we fell to Indy, moreso because of the things we didn't do that I'd expected we would. But it's important that we keep in mind when the odds are in favor of one team, we aren't "supposed to win." It's just that the odds are more likely in favor of one team. Many times, the less favored team does win.

Think of it as a nothing is preordained. If the odds that were all that counted, we'd just all play NBA 2K and forget the live games.Compare it to the brackets for March Madness - we all know which teams the odds favor, but how many of us accurately pick the entire tournament correctly? Very few!

Sure that's fair. The point was more to highlight that "on paper" this was a very very good roster that was expected to have a good chance of being a legit title contender. Most didn't think we could beat the celtics - but could beat anyone else in the east. Pacers kind of came out of nowhere despite their run last year.

[Luv those Knicks]

I almost wanted to make this it's own thread, because the way 12th-15th men are treated sometimes probably feels a little harsh, but at the same time, I get it. It's a business.

If anyone saw Moneyball (I'm guessing most have), there was a short scene where a player was cut after they made some trades. Not everything in Moneyball was accurate. Some of the moves were done a year before and stuff like that, but that scene was accurate and that player who was cut, was cut just days before they'd have been eligible for a full MLB pension. I think he still partial pension, just not full. Not terrible, but it's an interesting situation that happens a lot in sports.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Magnante

This is the article I read where Austin Rivers says he has no bad feelings for Thibs and that he didn't like him as a coach.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/austin-rivers-has-no-remorse-for-tom-thibodeau-after-knicks-firing/ar-AA1GG4Ob?cmp_prftch=2&ocid=msedgntp&pc=ACTS&cvid=9d6db18d302c46c295fa6b9fecc2de89&ei=7

Now, Derrick Rose was a good addition and he helped turn NY towards a wining direction and Austin Rivers was traded to a team that waived him 3 days later )OKC), but he was picked up by another team on a 10 day contract, later turned into a rest of the year contract and signed by them the following year (Denver), so he did OK even after being dumped by Thibs, and he made 56 million as a player so, hard to feel bad for a guy who made 56 million.

I don't know if Thibs should be judged at how he treated a player at the end of the bench. This kind of this is probably not uncommon in professional sports.

[GettinitDone]

Read on Twitter

Or rehire him as assistant coach lol

[ctorres]

Read on Twitter

Thibs is cold man

To tell Austin straight up that he wanted Derrick Rose over him, lol

[ctorres]

Read on Twitter

Or rehire him as assistant coach lol

would Thibs be able to double dip on salary if he takes an assistant coach job with another team? Or does that salary get deducted from what the Knicks have to pay him?

[Luv those Knicks]

Context is important which is why the "best season in 25 years" thing is overblown to me. This team going into the season had the 3rd best title odds, nearly tied with OKC for 2nd. It was a roster that should have made the ECF - the cavs being as good as they were threw a wrech in it by the Celtics finishing 2nd instead of 3rd. But beating the Celtics as great as it was also needs the context of how many issues that team was facing - and yet it still took a couple miraculous comebacks that I'm unsure should be accredited to the coach...

I'd like to address only your use of odds, as in the bolded part. I too was disappointed we fell to Indy, moreso because of the things we didn't do that I'd expected we would. But it's important that we keep in mind when the odds are in favor of one team, we aren't "supposed to win." It's just that the odds are more likely in favor of one team. Many times, the less favored team does win.

Think of it as a nothing is preordained. If the odds that were all that counted, we'd just all play NBA 2K and forget the live games.Compare it to the brackets for March Madness - we all know which teams the odds favor, but how many of us accurately pick the entire tournament correctly? Very few!

I agree with what you said about the odds but I'd like to add a point to that.

Indy is a better team than their record. OK, NY fumbled the 4th quarter of game 1 and Indy won on a lucky bounce that was in a sense a missed shot that happened to fall in, but in addition to that, Indy played really good ball and they played good ball against Milwaukee and so far against OKC. They're playing OKC harder than we ever did this year. OKC made us look silly in the regular season and I wouldn't have bet on us to beat them if we met them in the finals. Indy is matching them so far.

Take away Indy's 10-15 start and they're right up there as one of the top 4 teams in the league with Boston, OKC and CLeveland, at least in the regular season. We struggled during the regular season. 52 wins was about where we belonged, sometimes looking great, sometimes looking 2nd tier.

[Jeff Van Gully]

Context is important which is why the "best season in 25 years" thing is overblown to me. This team going into the season had the 3rd best title odds, nearly tied with OKC for 2nd. It was a roster that should have made the ECF - the cavs being as good as they were threw a wrech in it by the Celtics finishing 2nd instead of 3rd. But beating the Celtics as great as it was also needs the context of how many issues that team was facing - and yet it still took a couple miraculous comebacks that I'm unsure should be accredited to the coach...

I'd like to address only your use of odds, as in the bolded part. I too was disappointed we fell to Indy, moreso because of the things we didn't do that I'd expected we would. But it's important that we keep in mind when the odds are in favor of one team, we aren't "supposed to win." It's just that the odds are more likely in favor of one team. Many times, the less favored team does win.

Think of it as a nothing is preordained. If the odds that were all that counted, we'd just all play NBA 2K and forget the live games.Compare it to the brackets for March Madness - we all know which teams the odds favor, but how many of us accurately pick the entire tournament correctly? Very few!

I agree with what you said about the odds but I'd like to add a point to that.

Indy is a better team than their record. OK, NY fumbled the 4th quarter of game 1 and Indy won on a lucky bounce that was in a sense a missed shot that happened to fall in, but in addition to that, Indy played really good ball and they played good ball against Milwaukee and so far against OKC. They're playing OKC harder than we ever did this year. OKC made us look silly in the regular season and I wouldn't have bet on us to beat them if we met them in the finals. Indy is matching them so far.

Take away Indy's 10-15 start and they're right up there as one of the top 4 teams in the league with Boston, OKC and CLeveland, at least in the regular season. We struggled during the regular season. 52 wins was about where we belonged, sometimes looking great, sometimes looking 2nd tier.

Top 2 IIRC. Right next to who they are playing in the finals.

It hurt to lose to them but they’ve been unjustly overlooked and disrespected for months.

Meanwhile, by those same top 3 betting standards…

We were indeed one of the last 3 teams standing. Despite our record not being top 3.

You lick your wounds, reflect to improve, and get back to work.

[Luv those Knicks]

I'd like to address only your use of odds, as in the bolded part. I too was disappointed we fell to Indy, moreso because of the things we didn't do that I'd expected we would. But it's important that we keep in mind when the odds are in favor of one team, we aren't "supposed to win." It's just that the odds are more likely in favor of one team. Many times, the less favored team does win.

Think of it as a nothing is preordained. If the odds that were all that counted, we'd just all play NBA 2K and forget the live games.Compare it to the brackets for March Madness - we all know which teams the odds favor, but how many of us accurately pick the entire tournament correctly? Very few!

I agree with what you said about the odds but I'd like to add a point to that.

Indy is a better team than their record. OK, NY fumbled the 4th quarter of game 1 and Indy won on a lucky bounce that was in a sense a missed shot that happened to fall in, but in addition to that, Indy played really good ball and they played good ball against Milwaukee and so far against OKC. They're playing OKC harder than we ever did this year. OKC made us look silly in the regular season and I wouldn't have bet on us to beat them if we met them in the finals. Indy is matching them so far.

Take away Indy's 10-15 start and they're right up there as one of the top 4 teams in the league with Boston, OKC and CLeveland, at least in the regular season. We struggled during the regular season. 52 wins was about where we belonged, sometimes looking great, sometimes looking 2nd tier.

Top 2 IIRC. Right next to who they are playing in the finals.

It hurt to lose to them but they’ve been unjustly overlooked and disrespected for months.

Meanwhile, by those same top 3 betting standards…

We were indeed one of the last 3 teams standing. Despite our record not being top 3.

You lick your wounds, reflect to improve, and get back to work.

That's probably how Leon Rose is looking at it.

Still, our defense has issues. Brunson looked bothered by constant pressure. KAT has trouble with defensive assignments. Our 3 pt shooting is inconsistent, we don't use KAT enough on offense and we don't have enough bench or variation in the lineups we can run.

There are reasons to be concerned because there's a lot to fix to bring this team from where they are to where we want them to be.

OKC isn't going away anytime soon. They don't have salary cap issues, well, not yet, and they have a million draft picks. Cleveland has some money issues going into next year. Indy probably needs to resign MIles Turner, who's a free agent. Boston is limping into next year. I'm not sure who else steps up, but there are questions. I think Leon realizes, it's not just about adding talent, it's also about building a balanced and deep team with good chemistry. He's also got no picks, not much cap space and limited options . . .

so, it'll be an interesting off-season.

Granted, none of this has much to do with Thibs, so maybe we should move this into another thread.

[Madskillzz024]

Good watch:

Watch on YouTube

[MrDollarBills]

Good watch:

Watch on YouTube

Shump is 100% right about JB. He's gotta make everyone around him better

[prophet_of_rage]

Good watch:

Watch on YouTube

Shump is 100% right about JB. He's gotta make everyone around him better

Yup. JB needs a coach that will use him like Jordan/Kobe. Get off it for 3 quarters and the fourth is yours. I'm happy to see people coming around on this. JB can be better if he thinks right.

Sent from my SM-S9080 using RealGM mobile app

[Jalen Bluntson]

Good watch:

Watch on YouTube

Shump is 100% right about JB. He's gotta make everyone around him better

Yup. JB needs a coach that will use him like Jordan/Kobe. Get off it for 3 quarters and the fourth is yours. I'm happy to see people coming around on this. JB can be better if he thinks right.

Sent from my SM-S9080 using RealGM mobile app

I don't know how he finished the season but, at the time of his injury, JB was 7th in scoring and 8th n assists in the entire league. You can't get much better than that. The system we ran was the problem. Not the players running it.

[prophet_of_rage]

Shump is 100% right about JB. He's gotta make everyone around him better

Yup. JB needs a coach that will use him like Jordan/Kobe. Get off it for 3 quarters and the fourth is yours. I'm happy to see people coming around on this. JB can be better if he thinks right.

Sent from my SM-S9080 using RealGM mobile app

I don't know how he finished the season but, at the time of his injury, JB was 7th in scoring and 8th n assists in the entire league. You can't get much better than that. The system we ran was the problem. Not the players running it.

You can get better by lowering your stats and upping wins. The system was JB decides what he wants to do with the ball. So he needs to make better choices that includes his teammates.

Look at JB on the FIBA team. Different system and he struggled because they already had a better isolation scorer.

Sent from my SM-S9080 using RealGM mobile app

[Jalen Bluntson]

Yup. JB needs a coach that will use him like Jordan/Kobe. Get off it for 3 quarters and the fourth is yours. I'm happy to see people coming around on this. JB can be better if he thinks right.

Sent from my SM-S9080 using RealGM mobile app

I don't know how he finished the season but, at the time of his injury, JB was 7th in scoring and 8th n assists in the entire league. You can't get much better than that. The system we ran was the problem. Not the players running it.

You can get better by lowering your stats and upping wins. The system was JB decides what he wants to do with the ball. So he needs to make better choices that includes his teammates.

Look at JB on the FIBA team. Different system and he struggled because they already had a better isolation scorer.

Sent from my SM-S9080 using RealGM mobile app

better choices than being near the top of the entire league in scoring and assists? Hilarious.

[MrDollarBills]

Read on Twitter

Or rehire him as assistant coach lol

would Thibs be able to double dip on salary if he takes an assistant coach job with another team? Or does that salary get deducted from what the Knicks have to pay him?

I think that if he gets hired, that salary will come out of what Dolan owes him.

I hope Brooklyn hires him. Tom clearly doesn't wanna sit around doing nothing.