Shams: Grizzlies trade Desmond Bane to Magic for KCP, Cole Anthony, 4 1sts, 1 Pick Swap...

[pepe1991]

You can question the price they paid, but I don't understand how anyone is question the fit for Bane on Orlando. He is pretty much the exact player they needed.

Problem is playmaking.

Can 4 "bit above average creators for position" really replace actual playmaker?

Bane has very low APG count in playoffs, probably because he isn't natural PG and under higher ball pressure he can't do well (watching Memphis getting steamrolled by OKC as Bane couldn't dribble pass Caruso or Wallace or Dort proves this).

Franz and Paolo are solid passers....for position.

Suggs has no handles to be PG, nor his decision making is all that good.



Bane will help Magic with scoring/creation that's granted, Bane will also be solid fit on perimeter as he plays solid defense.

But when team is selling 5 first round picks, including 4 unprotected ones, you really hope for superstar, or top 10-15 players at worst. Or at least some upcomming young star.

Just because Gobert and Mikal trades are equally terrible that doesn't make this one any better looking.

To me it feels like this type of moves are done by GMs who are in fear for their jobs.

I think Black will take over the PG position sooner than later, but in the meantime if that doesn't happen right away I think they can get by with the PG by committee approach. Theyve had success playing that way even without any shooting (when Suggs is healthy) so I assume it will work even better with Bane replacing KCP, who was legit awful for you guys.

In nba, Black is SF, not PG.

His ballhandling is rather mediocre, he simply does not have foot speed or burst ( or handles) to beat defense off the dribble and keep them on heels.
Like, guy played 5 games vs Celtics and logged 0 assists total.
And his jumpshot isn't even bad, he simply doesn't shoot off the dribble at all. (basically only capable of sometimes hitting wide open spot up 3 and that's all ).

Coming of worst shooting season by nba team of past decade, Bane's shooting will fix some of offensive issues, but having no reliable handler and playmaker who can control pace will still be problematic.

[Chuck Everett]

It's a great trade for Orlando. I like Suggs/Bane in the backcourt. Franz and Paolo can still do more of the facilitator thing, but now they have an elite shooter next to them in Bane (not a fake elite shooter in KCP). They didn't trade Da Silva nor Black. It's a lot of picks, but Bane is actually a young player who is good, so that doesn't surprise. Orlando has a puncher's chance now of getting to the ECF if they can be healthy.

All-NBA/MVPaolo back on menu next year guys.

Edit: Good trade for Memphis as well because they got what they needed. Picks to replenish some of Kleiman's poor moves like trading Steven Adams and Tyus Jones and not picking up LaRavia's team option. KCP could be a good vet off the bench and Cole Anthony allows Scottie Pippen Jr. to be a combo guard. Memphis only had one point guard on the roster, which is baffling in any era of basketball.

Bro, Banchero isn't even best player on Magic

In the playoffs it isn't Franz, so who is?

[pepe1991]

It's a great trade for Orlando. I like Suggs/Bane in the backcourt. Franz and Paolo can still do more of the facilitator thing, but now they have an elite shooter next to them in Bane (not a fake elite shooter in KCP). They didn't trade Da Silva nor Black. It's a lot of picks, but Bane is actually a young player who is good, so that doesn't surprise. Orlando has a puncher's chance now of getting to the ECF if they can be healthy.

All-NBA/MVPaolo back on menu next year guys.

Edit: Good trade for Memphis as well because they got what they needed. Picks to replenish some of Kleiman's poor moves like trading Steven Adams and Tyus Jones and not picking up LaRavia's team option. KCP could be a good vet off the bench and Cole Anthony allows Scottie Pippen Jr. to be a combo guard. Memphis only had one point guard on the roster, which is baffling in any era of basketball.

Bro, Banchero isn't even best player on Magic

In the playoffs it isn't Franz, so who is?

Isn't based on what? Franz is elite defender, whole Magic build is around his ability to defend best wings 1 on 1 and switch to everybody.

Paolo's whole game is high usage , low efficiency chucking with questionable defense ( let's just be kind and call it questionable, it's way more- bad than anything else).

Franz is guy who raises ceiling of a team. Banchero is guy who ESPN plays on 1 clip a year Magic clips because USA, 1st overall pick and all other irrational reasons.

[Chuck Everett]

Bro, Banchero isn't even best player on Magic

In the playoffs it isn't Franz, so who is?

Isn't based on what? Franz is elite defender, whole Magic build is around his ability to defend best wings 1 on 1 and switch to everybody.

Paolo's whole game is high usage , low efficiency chucking with questionable defense ( let's just be kind and call it questionable, it's way more- bad than anything else).

Franz is guy who raises ceiling of a team. Banchero is guy who ESPN plays on 1 clip a year Magic clips because USA, 1st overall pick and all other irrational reasons.

So I'm guessing you feel they should trade Paolo and just build around Franz?

[FarBeyondDriven]

realgm is hilarious when it comes to overreacting about trades. This is no different than the Mitchell, Gobert, and Bridges trades. If a team wishes to go "all in" and make deep playoff runs, and they're small markets, it's going to cost an arm and a leg. Getting rid of the KCP and Anthony salary cost a 1st. So essentially it's a prime Bane for two late first rounders from ORL and a potentially game-changing PHO 2026 pick. Remember, PHO isn't rebuilding. Trading KD will likely bring back starters, young players and picks. So there's no guarantee that 2026 PHO pick is top 10 though it looks very possible.

Hopefully this sheds more light on how obviously forced the Luka trade was. But by all means, keep making fun of Nico Harrison as if he had any recourse. When Luka and the NBA wanted Luka on the Lakers, it was going to happen and since nobody else was allowed to bid, that is the return the Mavs got. Which is also the reason they were gifted the #1 pick to make up for it.

[TrueLAfan]

I don't think the question here is about Bane's value in general, or to the Magic. When healthy, he's a borderline all-star that is pretty much everything Orlando wanted/needed, so he's more valuable to them than to most teams.

The problem/questions revolve around the picks. Anthony is injury riddled but still has some upside. KCP has a bad contract that has overpaid him by about 50% this year. So they aren't neutral value. But Bane is probably a little overpaid too ... he's had some injury issues (missed more than 30% of his team's games in the last three years), folded up like a wet tortilla in the playoffs this year, and has 4 years/$163.5 million left on his current deal. A #16 pick and a protected future pick swap I can see. Maybe even another future first. But for four round picks and a pick swap? Orlando is betting the farm, big time.

[pepe1991]

In the playoffs it isn't Franz, so who is?

Isn't based on what? Franz is elite defender, whole Magic build is around his ability to defend best wings 1 on 1 and switch to everybody.

Paolo's whole game is high usage , low efficiency chucking with questionable defense ( let's just be kind and call it questionable, it's way more- bad than anything else).

Franz is guy who raises ceiling of a team. Banchero is guy who ESPN plays on 1 clip a year Magic clips because USA, 1st overall pick and all other irrational reasons.

So I'm guessing you feel they should trade Paolo and just build around Franz?

No need to trade any of them any time soon.

Just hope for better offensive sets, less Iso- Paolo, Iso- Franz plays and playing more like a team and less like highschool basketball team made out of 2 guys who train basketball and 8 guys who train american football.


And for love of God no more 36% usage rate x2 in playoffs

Go look who leads in shots in nba in playoffs: spoiler alert : Franz and Paolo.
Efficiency: 51% TS and 51% TS

Portion of Magic fans hoped for PG that can take usage away from them and give them better quality, less quanitity of shots. Bane isn't PG, but we can hope they can share ball more and set better shots.

[robbie84]

The Magic are expecting to be deep in the playoff picture so those picks won't be great. If Banchero goes down however....

[SA37]

By my quick count, the odds of drafting someone as good as or better than Desmond Bane in the second half of the 1st round are about 4% for every pick. There's less than one guy who qualified every year in the last like 12 years, comes to roughly 0.675 per year (with players like Sengun, Maxey, and Bane himself being the examples). Multiple that by 1/15 since there are 15 picks in the back half of the 1st round, and you get 4%.

You can add together as many 4% chances as you have pick--in this case there's 4 so you get 16%. That's about a 1 in 7 chance. Even if you wanted to lower the bar a little better and not just include AS-level guys, you're not looking at better than 1 in 5 or maybe 4.5 with ALL those 4 picks considered. Not good odds.

This assumes the Magic will always be healthy and always make the playoffs. Look what happened to Philadelphia this year. Now, Philly didn't owe their pick to anyone, but with a bit of bad luck, the Magic could end up handing over a lottery pick. Is that likely? No.

Part of the thing with dealing for draft picks is not just for who or where you might Draft, but it can also be packaged in later trades. If you have a good developmental program like OKC, San Antonio, or Miami, you can get A LOT of value from mid-late 1sts.

The other point I'd make is Memphis is not a FA destination, so the Draft is the most likely place they can acquire talent.

Think we all know this but it’s not that persuasive here, since 1) Philly flopped this year because two notoriously injury prone aging guys got injured and 2) the odds are better but not that much for a lotto pick. Definitely not enough to get you anywhere close to it being more likely to get a Bane than not. So yes the worst case could happen but you can’t stop a decision for that and just have to factor it in the possible but unlikely scenarios.

(Also this is a digression so won’t elaborate, but the idea that the vast majority of teams don’t invest massively and smartly in player development is one of those empty sports talk points. It can’t be part of your analysis to say ‘you know what, we should consider doing player development!’ to suddenly greatly increase your draft odds.

Yes, but it wouldn't be the 1st time something like that happened. The Spurs ended up with Duncan because they sucked via injuries. Even this year both Franz and Paolo missed ~2 months (?) that overlapped with similar injuries. Freak stuff like this happens all the time. One tears an ACL, the other ends up missing 20-30 games and you may be so far out of contention they hold a player out...etc.

As for the player development, some teams have proven to be very good at it and others less so. Same for the scouts who are able to identify talent. And a lot of that has to do not only with the staff working directly with the players, but also if you have FO and coaching stability that allows you to draft/bring in undrafted guys knowing the types of players that fit your system. Most teams hire and fire coaching staffs every 3-5 years, and sometimes that is even true of the FO. Without a long-term plan and a commitment to a system and style of play, the goal posts are constantly moving. OKC, Miami, San Antonio, and Golden State have had stability most other teams lack.

[zero rings]

I like Bane, but this is a big overpay for a team that isn't that close to contending. You need a superstar already on the roster to justify an all-in trade like this.

I'm not convinced Paolo is that guy.

The pacers didn't have a superstar when they traded for siakim and here they are in the NBA finals tied 2-2.

That’s fair. Maybe they can make a run in the weak East the way Indiana did. I just don’t buy Paolo as a franchise player, and this trade locks them into this roster for the foreseeable future.

[Chuck Everett]

Isn't based on what? Franz is elite defender, whole Magic build is around his ability to defend best wings 1 on 1 and switch to everybody.

Paolo's whole game is high usage , low efficiency chucking with questionable defense ( let's just be kind and call it questionable, it's way more- bad than anything else).

Franz is guy who raises ceiling of a team. Banchero is guy who ESPN plays on 1 clip a year Magic clips because USA, 1st overall pick and all other irrational reasons.

So I'm guessing you feel they should trade Paolo and just build around Franz?

No need to trade any of them any time soon.

Just hope for better offensive sets, less Iso- Paolo, Iso- Franz plays and playing more like a team and less like highschool basketball team made out of 2 guys who train basketball and 8 guys who train american football.


And for love of God no more 36% usage rate x2 in playoffs

Go look who leads in shots in nba in playoffs: spoiler alert : Franz and Paolo.
Efficiency: 51% TS and 51% TS

Portion of Magic fans hoped for PG that can take usage away from them and give them better quality, less quanitity of shots. Bane isn't PG, but we can hope they can share ball more and set better shots.

KCP was horrific in the playoffs on wide open shots. I have to believe that having Bane and Suggs instead of him will make a major difference. Corey Joseph gets no shade from me. He was just being a good vet and trying to help the team (he started the season as 3rd string for chrissake).

I can get with lower usage for Paolo and Franz as well. Their efficiency needs to improve significantly. This trade is a signal to Mosley that the offense needs to improve A LOT. And if it doesn't, I'm sure he will be shown the door, even if I do believe he has proven to be a solid NBA coach.

[Ryoga Hibiki]

Don't Magic need a PG facilitator? Wouldn't they need 1sts to get one?

Tripling down on not having one?

Guess they are not done...

I don't think the need that. They want Paolo and Franz to be their primary creators, grom the guard positions they need primarily size, defense and shooting.

[Wallace_Wallace]

Bane wanted to nuke Gotham, looks like he’ll have to settle for Memphis instead.

[ArksNetsSince99]

Should have just traded for Cam Thomas.

Cam Thomas costs 7 unprotected firsts

[holdenwait]

Wtaf is that return holy moly

[djsunyc]

orlando...hire thibs!

[scrabbarista]

meeft

(bertt)

[ChumboChappati]

Magic still dont have the PG they want

[FarBeyondDriven]

people DO realize the Magic still have a 2025 1st (25) and two 2nd round picks (46 and 57) so they have ample ammunition to either draft or trade for a PG. They don't even need a top guy since they're loaded 1-4. Just a Nembhard type which they can absolutely find at pick 25 or by trading those picks for someone. They're not even looking for a starter nor do they necessarily need a play-making PG since the offense runs through their wings. They'll be fine.

[Wargreymon]

UNPROTECTED??? That's such a crazy risk for a player like Bane.